The United Kingdom and the Death of Boris Johnson as we know it.

[Weston Super Saint]

8 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Much like WSM.

Certainly is today - although a small blue patch has just appeared!

Although the Northern towns will have far more houses made from quarried stone as opposed to our proliferation cheap red bricks / render since Persimmon's takeover!

Edited 29 October, 2021 by Weston Super Saint

[whelk]

Has anyone done the budget calculator and come out better off? 
lots of bluster and optimism around budget and but bottom line is they taxing us to the hilt. That is without 4% inflation kicking in 

[Baird of the land]

16 hours ago, whelk said:

Has anyone done the budget calculator and come out better off? 
lots of bluster and optimism around budget and but bottom line is they taxing us to the hilt. That is without 4% inflation kicking in 

Did anyone really expect to come out better off after new social care charges.

[AlexLaw76]

16 hours ago, whelk said:

Has anyone done the budget calculator and come out better off? 
lots of bluster and optimism around budget and but bottom line is they taxing us to the hilt. That is without 4% inflation kicking in 

Green/Net zero carbon, Covid, Social Care, NHS.

Hardly a shock is it.  

Edited 30 October, 2021 by AlexLaw76

[whelk]

43 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Green/Net zero carbon, Covid, Social Care, NHS.

Hardly a shock is it.  

Not a shock but with inflation rising people many will in for a shock come April as won’t have worked it out. And when they also realise social care is still fucked despite the rises should be a lot of discontent despite Daily Express’s best efforts to tell us how wealthy we are.

[AlexLaw76]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Not a shock but with inflation rising people many will in for a shock come April as won’t have worked it out. And when they also realise social care is still fucked despite the rises should be a lot of discontent despite Daily Express’s best efforts to tell us how wealthy we are.

No one but the British public is going to pay for Furlough / COVID.  We have not even started to feel the financial pain for the insane desire to go Green over the next few years.

Edited 30 October, 2021 by AlexLaw76

[rallyboy]

Whatever it takes we must make sure that Dido Harding and Serco get paid whatever they need, along with all of those jewellery firms, pubs and sweetshops that won massive PPE contracts.

Any tax rise to pay those debts can only be welcomed, those guys were the real heroes who saved us when the chips were down and their enormous profits were well-earned so we mustn't consider a tax on firms or ministers that cashed in on Covid.

No, we need working class people to pick up this tab - and they will.

 

[badgerx16]

So, an independant investigation into a Conservative MP's conduct finds him in contempt of Parliamentary rules and recommends his suspension for 30 days. A cross party committee of MPs backs this recommendation. The Government, instead of accepting this decision, brings in a swift amendment to pause the decision and wins the vote to suspend the disciplinary process whilst a new investigation is carried out into how the independant standards commissioner carries out her duties.

 

So much for open Government, accountability, and standards in Public Office.

[Warriorsaint]

12 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

So, an independant investigation into a Conservative MP's conduct finds him in contempt of Parliamentary rules and recommends his suspension for 30 days. A cross party committee of MPs backs this recommendation. The Government, instead of accepting this decision, brings in a swift amendment to pause the decision and wins the vote to suspend the disciplinary process whilst a new investigation is carried out into how the independant standards commissioner carries out her duties.

 

So much for open Government, accountability, and standards in Public Office.

Tories will Tory. What did you expect? They really are scum.

[Fan The Flames]

This is the independent commissioner that cited Boris for his free holiday and his free apartment refurb. No wonder he led the charge against her.

[whelk]

If only enough people cared. Tbf the tv news and even Tory papers lead with it but these cunts know that the news cycle moves so fast and attention span of electorate is non existent. Johnson shows himself when at PMQs that he is nasty bit of work when challenged.

Embarrassing this corrupt dishonest immoral fucker is surviving leading the country. Democracy ain’t what is used to be

 

 

[Fan The Flames]

Very strong headline from The Mail, could be significant. Boris risked his reputation by sticking by Cummings and is making the same mistake again.

[egg]

11 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Very strong headline from The Mail, could be significant. Boris risked his reputation by sticking by Cummings and is making the same mistake again.

As outrageous is this is, nothing will come of it. Loads of these Tory MP's are new ish to the job and will want to stick around / progress so won't defy the whip. By the time of reckoning at the next GE this'll have been forgotten, but even if it were tomorrow, the Tory masses won't suddenly shift to Labour or the Liberals over this. 

[CB Fry]

21 minutes ago, egg said:

As outrageous is this is, nothing will come of it. Loads of these Tory MP's are new ish to the job and will want to stick around / progress so won't defy the whip. By the time of reckoning at the next GE this'll have been forgotten, but even if it were tomorrow, the Tory masses won't suddenly shift to Labour or the Liberals over this. 

Absolutely.

It suits Boris for the nation to believe that "they're all as bad as each other" because he needs the public to have a low level of expectation that he can achieve.

You've already seen how the Tories have played the "Look at Labour playing politics with this" card. Absolutely shameless but you have to admire it really.

[egg]

Just now, CB Fry said:

Absolutely.

It suits Boris for the nation to believe that "they're all as bad as each other" because he needs the public to have a low level of expectation that he can achieve.

You've already seen how the Tories have played the "Look at Labour playing politics with this" card. Absolutely shameless but you have to admire it really.

Yep. They've gotten the masses to the point that they accept the unacceptable as acceptable. In doing that, those complaining about it are made out as the bad guys. That, with an untouchable majority, and piss weak opposition, ain't good. 

[saint1977]

On 30/10/2021 at 13:12, rallyboy said:

Whatever it takes we must make sure that Dido Harding and Serco get paid whatever they need, along with all of those jewellery firms, pubs and sweetshops that won massive PPE contracts.

Any tax rise to pay those debts can only be welcomed, those guys were the real heroes who saved us when the chips were down and their enormous profits were well-earned so we mustn't consider a tax on firms or ministers that cashed in on Covid.

No, we need working class people to pick up this tab - and they will.

 

The same working class people where the Conservatives have a 20% poll lead typically. Even when their own tabloids put the corruption right under their nose this morning, the penny still won’t drop. Expensive business is patriotism, whatever that actually means. 

In the 90s, it was just as corrupt but at least the non activist public had some courage to actually challenge it in debates and TV. Although having effective opposition politicians helped as well eg Smith, Blair, Ashdown. New Labour had issues in government too, it’s why I don’t like big majority governments, this is what you end up with - complacency and corruption. 

Edited 4 November, 2021 by saint1977

[rallyboy]

Voters rarely admit they got it wrong, it makes them look like mugs, they would rather plod on up Shit Creek pretending they don't want a paddle - or a canoe.

But above all other issues, the corruption is now so blatant it's beyond debate.

[moonraker]

I would like to see some of our resident Tory apologists defend this.  The Tory Government is attacking the foundations of our democracy and they are getting away with it.  Anyone who values democracy and fairness should put aside all other political leanings and ensure that this corrupt self serving bunch who masquerade as a political party are kicked out at the earliest opportunity.  

[rallyboy]

When the Daily Mail thinks it looks bad you know you need to do another u-turn.

So where will that leave all the MPs who supported it yesterday?

Hung out to dry and looking like fucking puppets - the same as they were when they defended Cummings, Patel, dodgy deals, the wallpaper, etc etc.....

[Lord Duckhunter]

People won’t give a shiny shite over this , whether  you like it or not, the public think they’re all the same. What will do for them is their Gordon Brownish economic policies. The Thatcherettes  need to reign Boris in, he’s like Johnny Major with charisma. I’m starting to agree with Peter Hitchens, they’re all Social Democrats now. I wrote from day one that he’s a raging pinko, but he was the vehicle to use if you wanted Brexit. Maybe it’s time for a new mode of transport. 

[moonraker]

3 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

People won’t give a shiny shite over this , whether  you like it or not, the public think they’re all the same. What will do for them is their Gordon Brownish economic policies. The Thatcherettes  need to reign Boris in, he’s like Johnny Major with charisma. I’m starting to agree with Peter Hitchens, they’re all Social Democrats now. I wrote from day one that he’s a raging pinko, but he was the vehicle to use if you wanted Brexit. Maybe it’s time for a new mode of transport. 

I disagree the Tories are doing their level best to show they are not all the same, and that they are the “party” of privilege.  Even the most ardent of the right wing anti left voters will become tired of the corruption.  I thought Brexit claimed to be all about sovereignty and the British way, for these charlatans it’s is all about them and protecting their own self interest, as I have always maintained, shame on them and shame on those who defend them.

 

[whelk]

Owen Paterson: Government to rethink MPs' conduct plan after backlash https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59163961

maybe they got worried by the Mail leader after all

Edited 4 November, 2021 by whelk

[badgerx16]

Is that the fastest political u-turn in Westminster history ? The hypocrisy of JRM's comments today is astounding.

[aintforever]

The shopping trolly is all over the place again.  

[ecuk268]

They wheeled out a senior minister, Kwasi Kwarteng, on Sky News this morning who said he "felt no shame" in voting for the amendment and even suggested that the standards commissioner should resign. Those who voted for the amendment included 22 Tories who were either already under investigation or had been ruled against by the commissioner.

A couple of hours later and the big u-turn. Total shambles.

[Fan The Flames]

53 minutes ago, whelk said:

Owen Paterson: Government to rethink MPs' conduct plan after backlash https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59163961

maybe they got worried by the Mail leader after all

It was the strength of the headline that was so telling. Surely the government could have forseen how this would look. 

It's fine to try and change the system, but to mix that up with getting a chum off the hook was totally wrong. From what I've read Paterson hasn't got a leg to stand on

[ecuk268]

He 's resigned.

Has he become an embarrassment and been thrown under the bus? 

[moonraker]

4 minutes ago, ecuk268 said:

He 's resigned.

Has he become an embarrassment and been thrown under the bus? 

I think that the most likely scenario.  If he had been recalled and he contested the by-election he would most likely loose the seat, that would never do.

 

[Tamesaint]

The death of Patterson's wife was undoubtedly tragic and he deserves sympathy for that. However as Environment minister he was a disaster. His refusal to ban neo nicitoids in farming (thank God an EU directive overruled him) and his enthusiastic support for the badger cull indicate that whenever the NFU told him to jump, he asked "how high?" As one of the leading Euro "Spartans" he is one of those responsible for the mess that Brexit has become. His lobbying activities just stink. 

The House of Commons will be a better place without him. 

.

[Fan The Flames]

I don't think he's been thrown under the bus, more like the tories realise that his position was unsavable. Chris Byrant came on the offensive this morning and put up a robust defence of the process that rebuffed all of Patersons claims.

This wasn't going to go away, if they carried on shielding him the more sleazier it was going to look. And it already looked very sleazy, the stat doing the rounds that all 22 tory MPs who had been investigated by the standards commissioner had voted for the ammendment tells it's own story.

The tories not only conflated changes to the process and the outcome of this case, but also conflated the tragic death of his wife and the case, feeling that the old boy had suffered enough. Unfortunately due process doesn't work that way, not even natural justice.

[buctootim]

Wouldn't be surprised if Johnson bought him off with the promise of being made a Lord - which hopefully will see the idiot finally lose the support of Tory MPs.  

[moonraker]

12 minutes ago, buctootim said:

Wouldn't be surprised if Johnson bought him off with the promise of being made a Lord - which hopefully will see the idiot finally lose the support of Tory MPs.  

Some hope, to many of them are unprincipled and will do the leaders bidding, hence the three line whip yesterday.

[badgerx16]

How do all those back benchers who slavishly followed the whip feel now that they have been exposed to mockery and charges of supporting graft ?

[Warriorsaint]

8 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

People won’t give a shiny shite over this , whether  you like it or not, the public think they’re all the same. What will do for them is their Gordon Brownish economic policies. The Thatcherettes  need to reign Boris in, he’s like Johnny Major with charisma. I’m starting to agree with Peter Hitchens, they’re all Social Democrats now. I wrote from day one that he’s a raging pinko, but he was the vehicle to use if you wanted Brexit. Maybe it’s time for a new mode of transport. 

Please find a friend. I think your far right tendencies are Beginning to show.

[moonraker]

29 minutes ago, Warriorsaint said:

Please find a friend. I think your far right tendencies are Beginning to show.

Never any doubt about duckies tendencies, peculiar as they are.

[buctootim]

[buctootim]

14 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

The death of Patterson's wife was undoubtedly tragic and he deserves sympathy for that. However as Environment minister he was a disaster. His refusal to ban neo nicitoids in farming (thank God an EU directive overruled him) and his enthusiastic support for the badger cull indicate that whenever the NFU told him to jump, he asked "how high?" As one of the leading Euro "Spartans" he is one of those responsible for the mess that Brexit has become. His lobbying activities just stink. 

The House of Commons will be a better place without him. 

.

Even the wife's death defence was distasteful though.  I imagine there were wider circumstances than just this issue but if anything its her husbands grafting and loss of 'respectability' which caused the hurt, the investigation was just a consequence of that.  

[rallyboy]

Spot on, he never seemed to consider that the exposure of his disgraceful behaviour was the likely cause of the distress, he blamed his wife's death on the people investigating his appalling conduct.

Her direct relationship with his lobbying companies, plus Aintree, the Jockey Club, Dido Harding and Matt Hancock, has left more questions than answers.

It's a personal tragedy tied up in a tale of greed and dishonour, and for any MP to think that the offender was worth protecting, tells us all we need to know about their characters and integrity.

[saint1977]

46 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

Spot on, he never seemed to consider that the exposure of his disgraceful behaviour was the likely cause of the distress, he blamed his wife's death on the people investigating his appalling conduct.

Her direct relationship with his lobbying companies, plus Aintree, the Jockey Club, Dido Harding and Matt Hancock, has left more questions than answers.

It's a personal tragedy tied up in a tale of greed and dishonour, and for any MP to think that the offender was worth protecting, tells us all we need to know about their characters and integrity.

Sad but true. This government is the worst in living memory for sleaze, Truss’s links on the masks debacle was just as bad really. New Labour got bad in the middle of its spell in office and the Major government was mired in it, but this lot are different gravy. I think it’s because the ones with some integrity were sidelined by Boris. Jenryck before he was sacked was appalling as well. Imperative that Labour stops infighting - I don’t usually vote for them, I’m Lib Dem - but the country needs them to stop bickering over culture war issues and get ready to take the wheel, because the Tories are totally drunk and incapacitated at it. Then the opinion polls might sober both main parties up a bit if a huge unprecedented swing might be possible. 

Edited 5 November, 2021 by saint1977

[Winnersaint]

[whelk]

Is the fat albino becoming more of a hunchback by the day? What happened to his wake up call health kick? Fat fucker seems like he struggles to walk. I didn’t think I could loathe him any more than I did but seeing his pictures make me wince in pain.

Edited 8 November, 2021 by whelk

[Fan The Flames]

Another day and another example of Boris thinking the rules don't apply to him.

[Fan The Flames]

I see he couldn't make the Paterson debacle debate because he was catching a train back from this hospital trip. Unlike the dash back from Cop26 on a private jet so he could attend a Telegraph party at the Garrick Club.

[sadoldgit]

Even the Express and Mail have turned on him today. Hopefully even his staunchest supporters can now see what a poor PM he is and the Teflon PM will finally find that some of this stuff is starting to stick.

This whole business of second and more jobs stinks. If they need more money perhaps being an MP is not for them. How can you represent your constituency properly from the West Indies? They are paid to represent the people. To then top up their wages by taking money from corporations and businesses to further their aims in Parliament might be within the rules but it is not right and the rules need to be changed. During the Covid pandemic we have seen a rise in cronyism in an unprecedented way with huge contract going out to “mates” without tender. Now that the Tory press have decided it’s an issue perhaps, finally, something will be done about it. Removing this incompetent PM would be a start.

 

[badgerx16]

39 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

.
This whole business of second and more jobs stinks. If they need more money perhaps being an MP is not for them......

To then top up their wages by taking money from corporations and businesses ......

What about MPs who are medical professionals in the NHS ? Several have been doubling up during the pandemic as they need to keep up a certain level of work to maintain their accreditation.

Edited 9 November, 2021 by badgerx16

[sadoldgit]

29 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

What about MPs who are medical professionals in the NHS ? Several have been doubling up during the pandemic as they need to keep up a certain level of work to maintain their accreditation.

They are two different jobs so why do both? An MP should be an MP. A health professional should be a health professional. If they want to be an MP they should be prepared to give up their job (any job) and dedicate their time as an MP. Am I missing something? Is it a part time position? I want my MP to be working at their job full time. What is the basic pay? £70/80k a year? Seems reasonable for a full time job to me.

[badgerx16]

3 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

They are two different jobs so why do both? An MP should be an MP. A health professional should be a health professional. If they want to be an MP they should be prepared to give up their job (any job) and dedicate their time as an MP. Am I missing something? Is it a part time position? I want my MP to be working at their job full time. What is the basic pay? £70/80k a year? Seems reasonable for a full time job to me.

Many of them accept that being an MP is a precarious position and feel the need to maintain professional links outside Westminster in case of de-selection or electoral defeat, hence keeping up with qualification and certification requirements. Most MPs don't have a 'job for life' in the HoC.

 

[sadoldgit]

17 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Many of them accept that being an MP is a precarious position and feel the need to maintain professional links outside Westminster in case of de-selection or electoral defeat, hence keeping up with qualification and certification requirements. Most MPs don't have a 'job for life' in the HoC.

 

I appreciate that Badger, but surely it goes with the territory? No one has a job for life these days. If they do their job well then perhaps they will keep it for a long time. I’m sure many of them use their position to forge links that could be useful later down the line should they lose their seat. If they tighten up the rules, as I believe they should, I don’t think that there will be a shortage of candidates still wanting to stand. Perhaps it will encourage a better standard of candidate, those who want to do it to make a difference for their constituents rather than those who see it is a money making opportunity. 
 

I’m not holding my breath! 😉

[badgerx16]

3 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I appreciate that Badger, but surely it goes with the territory? No one has a job for life these days. If they do their job well then perhaps they will keep it for a long time. I’m sure many of them use their position to forge links that could be useful later down the line should they lose their seat. If they tighten up the rules, as I believe they should, I don’t think that there will be a shortage of candidates still wanting to stand. Perhaps it will encourage a better standard of candidate, those who want to do it to make a difference for their constituents rather than those who see it is a money making opportunity. 
 

I’m not holding my breath! 😉

Question for you seeing as you mentioned MP's pay; what group of people do you think MPs should get parity with ? As an example, senior civil servants and local government departmental heads earn much more than an MP's basic salary.

[Lord Duckhunter]

57 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

They are two different jobs so why do both? An MP should be an MP.

Isn’t being an MP & Prime Minister two different jobs?