Coronavirus Discussion Thread

[egg]

Just read a piece about JwP. Helping the community with his wage deferral.

 

what a hero!

Not often we agree but I think we're in a minority here. The players agreeing to essentially loan money to the club is not the sacrifice and massive gesture people are making it out to be.

[SW5 SAINT]

I read today that all 24 Championship clubs had discussed the Nuclear option of all going into Administation.....

[Whitey Grandad]

I read today that all 24 Championship clubs had discussed the Nuclear option of all going into Administation.....

 

That would have been fun. Just imagine the whole of Div 1 getting promoted.

[Lighthouse]

Not often we agree but I think we're in a minority here. The players agreeing to essentially loan money to the club is not the sacrifice and massive gesture people are making it out to be.

 

It’s not even a loan, that would imply an actual movement of money from player to club. This is basically the players saying, "look, I’ll make do with just £54,000 a week for the next few months, you just pay me the extra £6,000 in autumn."

 

I’m not going to slate them for it but I won’t praise them either. There is literally zero sacrifice on their part, even if they deferred 50% you physically couldn’t spend that much money at the moment. You can’t travel, buy a house or a car and even if you were just putting it in a savings account, interest rates are through the floor of the basement right now.

[sandwichsaint]

I read today that all 24 Championship clubs had discussed the Nuclear option of all going into Administation.....

 

Would they all start on minus 10?

[Batman]

Unlike you to be positive are you ok?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm ok and I was not bring serious.

[SW5 SAINT]

That would have been fun. Just imagine the whole of Div 1 getting promoted.

 

No, that’s not a funny thought......

[Noodles34]

It’s not even a loan, that would imply an actual movement of money from player to club. This is basically the players saying, "look, I’ll make do with just £54,000 a week for the next few months, you just pay me the extra £6,000 in autumn."

 

I’m not going to slate them for it but I won’t praise them either. There is literally zero sacrifice on their part, even if they deferred 50% you physically couldn’t spend that much money at the moment. You can’t travel, buy a house or a car and even if you were just putting it in a savings account, interest rates are through the floor of the basement right now.

 

if helps pay the rest of staff then fine, but as you say, it’s not a sacrifice at all. These guys could go a year without being paid and still be absolutely fine. That said, it seems to be a lot more than just about every other club has done.

[redkeith]

You can't tax high earners! They'll all leave the country!

 

Not if the borders are still closed !

[Matthew Le God]

Not if the borders are still closed !

 

They haven't closed the borders.

[SaintStinger]

Not if the borders are still closed !

 

Still? Our borders are still open.

[Whitey Grandad]

Still? Our borders are still open.

 

And anybody can wander in from a virus hotspot without even being tested let alone quarantined.

[waylander]

Heathrow still operating

[East Kent Saint]

We have been told by Cameron ( May Home sec) that they would reduce immigration to a set figure. They soon realized they had no system and no staff in Border Force to do this . May then tried to get down to the made up figure by restricting student visas ( reducing Uni income !) and trying to deport the Windrush generation and members of their family that have lived and worked here for 50 years . We don't have much chance of repelling illegal immigrants as our coastline is not covered except by a few retired coastguards who do it as a hobby and only 6 (I think ) main control points around the coast. There are a large number of small air strips with no proper control .

There dosen't seem to be any checks carried out at Heathrow before the flight ban in our experience.

Take back control of the borders ? We have never had control throughout history and we certainly don't now nor will have . I think Shengen was a big mistake by the EU , no more Day of the Jackal" style border checks or passport registration at hotels etc to evade !!!

Edited 15 April, 2020 by East Kent Saint

[egg]

And anybody can wander in from a virus hotspot without even being tested let alone quarantined.

 

I'm glad you can see the risk in travel - coming into the country from a hot spot is the same as travelling within our borders from a hot spot.

[davefoggy]

Heathrow still operating

 

I've been checking the Heathrow arrivals every day, and i'm staggered at the amount of flights still coming in daily from far flung places around the globe. Lockdown? What lockdown?

[Lighthouse]

I've been checking the Heathrow arrivals every day, and i'm staggered at the amount of flights still coming in daily from far flung places around the globe. Lockdown? What lockdown?

 

A lot of it will be cargo, plus a lot of people slowly being repatriated. There will be very few passengers on those flights.

[Toadhall Saint]

A lot of it will be cargo, plus a lot of people slowly being repatriated. There will be very few passengers on those flights.

 

As you say it’s cargo in the main. Passenger flights are down by about 77%. Cargo is up. I think Southampton is only open for about 90 mins per day. London city is virtually closed (if not completely).

 

The aviation industry in general is suffering big time world wide.

[Lighthouse]

As you say it’s cargo in the main. Passenger flights are down by about 77%. Cargo is up. I think Southampton is only open for about 90 mins per day. London city is virtually closed (if not completely).

 

The aviation industry in general is suffering big time world wide.

 

I've got a friend who works at SOU, says they've got two flights per day. One Guernsey, one Jersey.

[Whitey Grandad]

I'm glad you can see the risk in travel - coming into the country from a hot spot is the same as travelling within our borders from a hot spot.

 

Not the same. Incomers are unknowns. Locals have been through weeks of a form of quarantine.

[Whitey Grandad]

We have been told by Cameron ( May Home sec) that they would reduce immigration to a set figure. They soon realized they had no system and no staff in Border Force to do this . May then tried to get down to the made up figure by restricting student visas ( reducing Uni income !) and trying to deport the Windrush generation and members of their family that have lived and worked here for 50 years . We don't have much chance of repelling illegal immigrants as our coastline is not covered except by a few retired coastguards who do it as a hobby and only 6 (I think ) main control points around the coast. There are a large number of small air strips with no proper control .

There dosen't seem to be any checks carried out at Heathrow before the flight ban in our experience.

Take back control of the borders ? We have never had control throughout history and we certainly don't now nor will have . I think Shengen was a big mistake by the EU , no more Day of the Jackal" style border checks or passport registration at hotels etc to evade !!!

Schengen has never been a completely open door. After three months they can come and send you back if you don’t meet the conditions. Britain has never enforced this.

[egg]

Not the same. Incomers are unknowns. Locals have been through weeks of a form of quarantine.

 

Nonsense. Someone without symptoms travelling within the UK from a hotspot (say Sheffield) is as much of a risk as someone without symptoms travelling from a non UK hotspot.

[Portugalsaint]

France is twice the size of the UK with roughly the same amount of people so they are not so crammed in. The French lockdown is much different. If you wish to enter the country by car you have to fill out an Attestation form stating why you need to be on the streets. You can travel through the country and quite frankly they are in a worse situation sending people all over France and even the Germans have taken unwell people as the French just do not have sufficient beds.

 

People like to put down the Brits but you know, the hospital that they put together in around a week was nothing short of a miracle. The story of lack of PPE and masks stems all over Europe so it’s not just a UK problem. The Chinese are sending masks which are being returned as faulty. Everywhere over Europe and in the Uk, companies are stepping up to the mark to supply their health systems.

 

Full admiration to all who are stepping up.

[Portugalsaint]

Schengen has never been a completely open door. After three months they can come and send you back if you don’t meet the conditions. Britain has never enforced this.

 

Nor have Europe Whiteley. Once the person sets down in a country, they are stamped in and generally disappear. Brazilians come via France to Portugal as they know the French are a soft touch.

[Whitey Grandad]

Nor have Europe Whiteley. Once the person sets down in a country, they are stamped in and generally disappear. Brazilians come via France to Portugal as they know the French are a soft touch.

 

It varies between countries. Belgium in particular are very strict. Where there’s a will...

[Turkish]

France is twice the size of the UK with roughly the same amount of people so they are not so crammed in. The French lockdown is much different. If you wish to enter the country by car you have to fill out an Attestation form stating why you need to be on the streets. You can travel through the country and quite frankly they are in a worse situation sending people all over France and even the Germans have taken unwell people as the French just do not have sufficient beds.

 

People like to put down the Brits but you know, the hospital that they put together in around a week was nothing short of a miracle. The story of lack of PPE and masks stems all over Europe so it’s not just a UK problem. The Chinese are sending masks which are being returned as faulty. Everywhere over Europe and in the Uk, companies are stepping up to the mark to supply their health systems.

 

Full admiration to all who are stepping up.

 

funnily enough a lot of people screaming at the government that 12000 PEOPLE HAVE DIED AND ITS ALL THEIR FAULT are the same ones who were screaming about leaving the EU and anyone voting Tory. The government has been far from perfect but how could they expect to be, not many people alive have ever been in this situation before.

[Whitey Grandad]

funnily enough a lot of people screaming at the government that 12000 PEOPLE HAVE DIED AND ITS ALL THEIR FAULT are the same ones who were screaming about leaving the EU and anyone voting Tory. The government has been far from perfect but how could they expect to be, not many people alive have ever been in this situation before.

 

“far from perfect” is quite an understatement. We deliberately followed a policy that was different from most others. It was the ‘sit back and do nothing’ policy. Whilst others were closing bars, restaurants and schools we were being taught how to was our hands.

[Batman]

It varies between countries. Belgium in particular are very strict. Where there’s a will...

 

have you seen clips of what is happening in parts of Belgium?

[The Cat]

have you seen clips of what is happening in parts of Belgium?

 

They have been hit pretty hard but their figures include all deaths in care homes whereas a lot of other countries do not. This has meant their deaths per X number of population is a lot higher.

[Window Cleaner]

France is twice the size of the UK with roughly the same amount of people so they are not so crammed in. The French lockdown is much different. If you wish to enter the country by car you have to fill out an Attestation form stating why you need to be on the streets. You can travel through the country and quite frankly they are in a worse situation sending people all over France and even the Germans have taken unwell people as the French just do not have sufficient beds.

 

People like to put down the Brits but you know, the hospital that they put together in around a week was nothing short of a miracle. The story of lack of PPE and masks stems all over Europe so it’s not just a UK problem. The Chinese are sending masks which are being returned as faulty. Everywhere over Europe and in the Uk, companies are stepping up to the mark to supply their health systems.

 

Full admiration to all who are stepping up.

 

Well yes and no. France has vast semi-deserted areas where few people live, in those areas there are very few cases of Covid19.

Around the major cities the problem is just as bad as anywhere else really. Not to mention the total abandonment of those in Ehpad type care homes, nigh on 7000 deaths in those and counting. It's something like 10200 in hospitals and 7000 in care homes and those figures are nowhere near definitive. Macron and his team of amateurs have failed the old and infirm totally. Perhaps that's just a calculated option though.

 

Going back to the attestation, yes you have to fill it out or use the smartphone option but it doesn't give you the right to do whatever you want, there are 7 very specific reasons for being out of doors and some of them are limited in time and distance from home. For example if you want to go out for a walk or a run it's a maximum of 1 km from home and one hour in total, once a day. You just cannot wander about wherever you want. The gendrmerie caught a couple of dutch lads in the village the other day, sent them packing back to Holland with a massive fine to boot.

Edited 16 April, 2020 by Window Cleaner

[Whitey Grandad]

have you seen clips of what is happening in parts of Belgium?

 

No, but what do they have to do with the EU and Freedom of Movement?

[Window Cleaner]

So, the new spanish figures our out for the day, 500+ new deaths and more frighteningly 5000+ new cases and that with a supposedly pretty severe lockdown that's been going on for 6 weeks or so now. Don't really see how some of their politicians see that as any form of encouragement.

[Batman]

So, the new spanish figures our out for the day, 500+ new deaths and more frighteningly 5000+ new cases and that with a supposedly pretty severe lockdown that's been going on for 6 weeks or so now. Don't really see how some of their politicians see that as any form of encouragement.

 

you should see the Journo's here getting all up tight as they need to know when/how we exit this lockdown and they need to know NOW!

[beatlesaint]

you should see the Journo's here getting all up tight as they need to know when/how we exit this lockdown and they need to know NOW!

 

Ive had to give up on the journo's questions after the daily Press Conference from Downing Street. They are all thick as. That bloody Peston idiot from ITV gets on my tits

[Window Cleaner]

you should see the Journo's here getting all up tight as they need to know when/how we exit this lockdown and they need to know NOW!

 

 

Oh I've seen them alright, wonders of the www. Good job you haven't got 7000 + deaths in your care homes,they'd all be throwing stroke inducing wobblies.

 

Ours are have a bit of a field day with the 600 odd cases on the Charles de Gaulle, result of a silly stopover on the way to Joint Warrior and trusting the matelots not to disobey the commander's orders.

Edited 16 April, 2020 by Window Cleaner

[Saint Without a Halo]

And anybody can wander in from a virus hotspot without even being tested let alone quarantined.

 

It makes no difference statistically once you have in country transmission and anyway we are the virus hotspot!

[Saint Without a Halo]

“far from perfect” is quite an understatement. We deliberately followed a policy that was different from most others. It was the ‘sit back and do nothing’ policy. Whilst others were closing bars, restaurants and schools we were being taught how to was our hands.

 

We only shut down to ensure we have NHS capacity that is what reduces deaths in the absence of a vaccine

So shutting down too early only stores up more problems for later. Shutting down is not a solution in itself it is only a delay tactic to smooth the curve push it out and buy time. As was stated earlier timing of a shutdown is very difficult as it involves a number of contradictory different factors that are very specific to each country and need to be optimised not least of which are appetite Of the population and social problems resulting from too lengthy a lockdown, versus economic impact On the population of a shutdown etc

And are based on specific models produced by top scientists and health experts.

 

The truth is that In the absence of a vaccine the only way out of this mess is for enough people to get it and come through. Otherwise you just get more waves particularly as many other countries with poor health services will continue to incubate the virus.

 

The only other alternative is to eradicate it through testing and tracing once it is reduced in the UK and close our borders forever

Not really a credible solution given the amount of globalisation the world depends upon.

 

There is Also little point in comparing cases and deaths between different countries given the large number of different factors that exist

Such as size of population, number of tests, strategy for testing, numbers of old and vulnerable people, population densities Different healthcare setups and capabilities different measuring techniques etc.

 

If we go on face value figures Iran is better than the UK ( not sure anyone would believe that)

 

We have succeeded so far in the main aim of growing the ICU’s and ensuring the NHS can treat all without getting overwhelmed and that was the principal aim!

[Window Cleaner]

 

The truth is that In the absence of a vaccine the only way out of this mess is for enough people to get it and come through. Otherwise you just get more waves particularly as many other countries with poor health services will continue to incubate the virus.

 

 

 

 

I see that the Italian foreign minister is saying that the only way back to normality depends on finding a vaccine. Guess he might know because their lockdown is only producing very sketchy results. Still whilst people are still going to work and catching buses and trains with hoards of others I don't know that you can expect much else. The lockdowns just prevent the health systems being overrun. They aren't going to solve the problem totally, not the way they are in Europe.

[hypochondriac]

you should see the Journo's here getting all up tight as they need to know when/how we exit this lockdown and they need to know NOW!

Yep absolutely fed up with that. And they only reason they want to know is that when they miss the self imposed deadline they can moan at them. It's ridiculous.

[John D]

Whilst I would usually be against Govt not being open there is an argument for not being specific about exit strategy for as long as possible.

If Govt comes out and says lockdown is for another 6 weeks then idiots will think sod that, I can't handle it and start going out again. If they announce it is over in a week then same idiots will think sod that, it is over soon so I may as well go out now anyway.

[Saint Without a Halo]

Whilst I would usually be against Govt not being open there is an argument for not being specific about exit strategy for as long as possible.

If Govt comes out and says lockdown is for another 6 weeks then idiots will think sod that, I can't handle it and start going out again. If they announce it is over in a week then same idiots will think sod that, it is over soon so I may as well go out now anyway.

 

Quite right the other argument is watch what the countries ahead of us do and use their results as guidance

[Window Cleaner]

Quite right the other argument is watch what the countries ahead of us do and use their results as guidance

 

It may well be the you end up by having to toughen up the lockdown quite a bit. Can't see that it's having much effect as of yet.

Sort of 3 strikes and up to 6 months in the nick sort of stuff. Don't think you have that yet do you ? Because to be honest the UK lockdown looks a bit girly from what you see in the press.

Edited 16 April, 2020 by Window Cleaner

[hypochondriac]

It may well be the you end up by having to toughen up the lockdown quite a bit. Can't see that it's having much effect as of yet.

Sort of 3 strikes and up to 6 months in the nick sort of stuff. Don't think you have that yet do you ? Because to be honest the UK lockdown looks a bit girly from what you see in the press.

Well it's clearly had quite a big effect. The question is if it's had enough of an effect. The graph today seeemed to suggest we were tracking behind France and Spain who seem to have a much stricter regime in place so I'm not sure how much difference anything stricter would have. The lockdown isn't to prevent the virus, it's to spread the virus at a slower pace.

[Window Cleaner]

Well it's clearly had quite a big effect. The question is if it's had enough of an effect. The graph today seeemed to suggest we were tracking behind France and Spain who seem to have a much stricter regime in place so I'm not sure how much difference anything stricter would have. The lockdown isn't to prevent the virus, it's to spread the virus at a slower pace.

 

Tracking behind? What does that mean really, you don't seem to be bringing your infection rate down anywhere near enough, isn't that what Mr Raab has just said?

[davefoggy]

Ive had to give up on the journo's questions after the daily Press Conference from Downing Street. They are all thick as. That bloody Peston idiot from ITV gets on my tits

 

They are not even proper journalists. Asking the same old dumb arse questions day after day. Does my head in

[hypochondriac]

Tracking behind? What does that mean really, you don't seem to be bringing your infection rate down anywhere near enough, isn't that what Mr Raab has just said?

It means that if you plot a graph from day one of i believe its the first death, we currently have less deaths than Spain and France had at roughly the same point.

[hypochondriac]

Ive had to give up on the journo's questions after the daily Press Conference from Downing Street. They are all thick as. That bloody Peston idiot from ITV gets on my tits

Peston, Laura kuenssberg and Sam Coates asked the stupidest questions today. We actually got a couple of good ones including one on serology which was half decent and not from one of the usual lot.

[stknowle]

Peston, Laura kuenssberg and Sam Coates asked the stupidest questions today. We actually got a couple of good ones including one on serology which was half decent and not from one of the usual lot.

 

Why does Kuensberg always get to go first? I find her reporting style massively irritating as well.

[hypochondriac]

Why does Kuensberg always get to go first? I find her reporting style massively irritating as well.

I've been quite sympathetic when she's got dogs abuse from certain people on twitter in the past but she's certainly been terrible during this especially. Most inane and simplistic questions ever.

[bangkoksaint]

Looking at what we know, what’s anticipated and the timescales forget about being in a full stadium much before the 2021/22 season. Then in order to accommodate social distancing stadium capacities may be halved.