Coronavirus

[S-Clarke]

3 hours ago, RedArmy said:

just a few more months. Now where have i heard that before? 

We'll be end of August then, just coming up into September and low and behold, you can almost guarantee it, the rates will be rising again with another variant as we enter the autumn and winter months. They are surge testing everyone, so there will be more positives, more negatives and most importantly more false positives. I'm hoping, and I'm assuming, the government are waiting to see if there is an uptick in hospital admissions and sadly deaths before they commit to a delay. 

I've not seen any uptick in Hospital or death stats yet, which is a positive and shows that the vaccines are working. If we're just going to panic over infection rates, when we knew all along that the vaccines don't protect against mild infection, or asymptomatic, then we are doomed.

[Whitey Grandad]

13 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

We'll be end of August then, just coming up into September and low and behold, you can almost guarantee it, the rates will be rising again with another variant as we enter the autumn and winter months. They are surge testing everyone, so there will be more positives, more negatives and most importantly more false positives. I'm hoping, and I'm assuming, the government are waiting to see if there is an uptick in hospital admissions and sadly deaths before they commit to a delay. 

I've not seen any uptick in Hospital or death stats yet, which is a positive and shows that the vaccines are working. If we're just going to panic over infection rates, when we knew all along that the vaccines don't protect against mild infection, or asymptomatic, then we are doomed.

And if it ever looks likely that rates are coming down they can always rush out some more tests and find some more infections  

Just one more month.. or two more maybe... perhaps three to be safe...

Don’t they realise that some people are down to their last drop of lifeblood?

The only reason to delay the end of lockdown is in the hope that a new variant turns up.

[The Cat]

Government have screwed pretty much the whole thing up other than the vaccine rollout.

If they'd banned flights from India when they should have done we'd be laughing by now, but no, yet again they were too slow to do the obvious thing and here we are with rising cases that their shitty track and trace system can't keep down.

We have an absolute shambles of a government.

[Lighthouse]

Nearly 50% second doses now and everyone over thirty offered a first dose. I hope that’s enough herd immunity for it not to take hold and that the only hospital admissions will be the thick anti-vaxxers.

[Lord Duckhunter]

14 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

I hope that’s enough herd immunity for it not to take hold and that the only hospital admissions will be the thick anti-vaxxers.

Do you include the BAME community in the thick group? 

[Lighthouse]

37 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Do you include the BAME community in the thick group? 

Thick anti-vaxxers are thick anti-vaxxers. I couldn’t care less about their melanin levels.

[rallyboy]

With the latest news on Patel and PPE contracts, the sleaze and greed around this pandemic is now so obvious it's insulting the intelligence of every taxpayer.

So putting aside all other party political arguments and distractions for a moment and looking at this very simple issue -

is there anybody out there who still honestly believes that this cabinet is not steeped in corruption?

[AlexLaw76]

7 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

With the latest news on Patel and PPE contracts, the sleaze and greed around this pandemic is now so obvious it's insulting the intelligence of every taxpayer.

So putting aside all other party political arguments and distractions for a moment and looking at this very simple issue -

is there anybody out there who still honestly believes that this cabinet is not steeped in corruption?

it appears, no one really cares.

[Chapel End]

25 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

it appears, no one really cares.

Lots of people care but most can do little about it 

[rallyboy]

If people pay taxes surely they want the money to go to policing, schools, health, immigration etc?

Why would anyone be happy with those areas going unfunded while their tax in huge amounts is given to friends of ministers instead?

#bizarre

 

[Weston Super Saint]

1 minute ago, rallyboy said:

If people pay taxes surely they want the money to go to policing, schools, health, immigration etc?

Why would anyone be happy with those areas going unfunded while their tax in huge amounts is given to friends of ministers instead?

#bizarre

 

Wasn't the money used for health?

[badgerx16]

28 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Wasn't the money used for health?

One story in the Daily Mail says that one of the contracts to Priti's pal cost twice what it should have done. Then there were the earlier stories of PPE contracts being awarded without proper scrutiny or control to Ministers' mates, and the end products varying from sub-standard to unuseable.

Edited 29 May, 2021 by badgerx16

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Wasn't the money used for health?

For the health of the pals and mates.

[Weston Super Saint]

12 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

One story in the Daily Mail says that one of the contracts to Priti's pal cost twice what it should have done. Then there were the earlier stories of PPE contracts being awarded without proper scrutiny or control to Ministers' mates, and the end products varying from sub-standard to unuseable.

So, yes then?

Did the contract to Priti's mate cost double because there was a global pandemic and a global shortage of goods as a result, thus the simple economics of supply and demand drove the prices higher?  

[Tamesaint]

30 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

 

Did the contract to Priti's mate cost double because there was a global pandemic and a global shortage of goods as a result, thus the simple economics of supply and demand drove the prices higher?  

Maybe you are right.

Maybe there is also a tooth fairy and Santa Claus does exist.

[whelk]

50 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

So, yes then?

Did the contract to Priti's mate cost double because there was a global pandemic and a global shortage of goods as a result, thus the simple economics of supply and demand drove the prices higher?  

Weston the ultimate useful idiot - no expose on any corruption will fool this guy. 

[whelk]

Can we now stop shitting ourselves? FFS taken long enough for us to have been given this obvious information

 Covid-19: 'Very few' Covid hospital patients had two jabs, NHS boss says https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57294438

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

So, yes then? Actually, if the goods were unfit for purpose the answer is no.

Did the contract to Priti's mate cost double because there was a global pandemic and a global shortage of goods as a result, thus the simple economics of supply and demand drove the prices higher?  Somehow, I doubt it, but that excuse makes a useful smokescreen for the gullible.

 

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, whelk said:

Weston the ultimate useful idiot - no expose on any corruption will fool this guy. 

Have you got an expose or a link to one?

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

 

If the goods were unfit for purpose, I would expect them to be returned and the money refunded.  Any evidence that this hasn't happened?

[badgerx16]

21 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

If the goods were unfit for purpose, I would expect them to be returned and the money refunded.  Any evidence that this hasn't happened?

No idea. However, it hardly helps with the concept of bypassing procurement channels to speed things up if an order has to be rejected and re-tendered, does it. Why not do it correctly in the first place, via the built in channels for expedient or urgent procurement embedded in the existing official procedures and processes ?

Edited 30 May, 2021 by badgerx16

[Weston Super Saint]

38 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

No idea. However, it hardly helps with the concept of bypassing procurement channels to speed things up if an order has to be rejected and re-tendered, does it. Why not do it correctly in the first place, via the built in channels for expedient or urgent procurement embedded in the existing official procedures and processes ?

How did we get here?  The original post from Rallyboy stated that the money was going to 'friends of ministers'.

Although now we've moved on to a completely different subject, I agree that the built in channels should have been used (assuming they are fit for purpose for use in emergency purchasing situations).

[badgerx16]

9 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

How did we get here?  The original post from Rallyboy stated that the money was going to 'friends of ministers'.

Although now we've moved on to a completely different subject, I agree that the built in channels should have been used (assuming they are fit for purpose for use in emergency purchasing situations).

 

17 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Wasn't the money used for health?

Edited 30 May, 2021 by badgerx16

[ecuk268]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

If the goods were unfit for purpose, I would expect them to be returned and the money refunded.  Any evidence that this hasn't happened?

https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/why-government-isnt-asking-for-ppe-refund/

[badgerx16]

26 minutes ago, ecuk268 said:

https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/why-government-isnt-asking-for-ppe-refund/

A good article, even if written by a Tyke.

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

A good article, even if written by a Tyke.

indeed.  Seems to suggest that the Government's purchasing guidelines are inept and not fit for purpose, especially when equipment is needed quickly.

Most of the article suggests we won't be getting refunds because we actually got what we ordered - can't really blame the companies involved for supplying what they were asked to, except for the suggested profiteering (although that may be standard practice for Gov't contracts?).

[whelk]

So now it’s all about having two jabs as one isn’t sufficient. Any chance of releasing hospitalisation stats on those who only had the one vaccine?

Now 25million fully vaccinated which must cover nearly all the at risk (1-9 category)

 

[whelk]

I have downloaded the NHS App which shows now I have had both jabs. Also an option to share a QR code. Presumably this will act as a ‘vaccine passport’ that I read were being scrapped. 

[Weston Super Saint]

12 minutes ago, whelk said:

So now it’s all about having two jabs as one isn’t sufficient. Any chance of releasing hospitalisation stats on those who only had the one vaccine?

Now 25million fully vaccinated which must cover nearly all the at risk (1-9 category)

 

Accordign to the BMJ the chance of ending up in hospital after vaccination (and they don't mention whether it is one or two jabs), is 'tiny'

https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1127

Quote

However, 12% (211) showed symptoms 15-21 days after vaccination and 29% (526) more than 21 days after vaccination. These cases could be due to vaccination failure, meaning that the vaccine failed to provide the person with immunity. The team emphasised that this was not an unexpected finding, as the vaccines were not 100% effective, and that the absolute numbers of vaccinated people being admitted to hospital 21 days after their first dose were “tiny.”

They also point out that those that are dying after vaccination - and let's be honest, it will never be 100% effective and people will still die, just like they do each year from 'flu, despite having the 'flu jab! - are those in the highest risk categories due to age / frailty.

Quote

The researchers reported that, among the people who developed symptoms more than 21 days post-vaccination, 113 (of 400) died with covid-19 (28%). Of these, 82 were in the “frail elderly” group. The report said, “Mortality appears to remain high for people in high risk vaccination tiers who are admitted to hospital with SARS-CoV-2 infection despite vaccination 21 day or more previously.

 

[The Cat]

There's some info on vaccines and hospitalisations in this Twitter thread:

 

 

[Turkish]

With one death today we are On the brink of a 3rd wave apparently 

 

Edited 31 May, 2021 by Turkish

[whelk]

Should be a rebellion if there is any going back on the 21st. Always find some Sage fucker pissing his pants. And boy do the media want to wheel them out. Not one statistic backs up their caution yet that’s all they trot out. Ooooh infections up - yeah what demographic are going to swamp the NHS? Annoying journos don’t want to ask basic questions.

[Turkish]

I wondered how long it would be until there was a hybrid variant 🤣🤣🤣

 

Here’s the story, another one far more transmissible than the one before it, which was also more transmissible than the ones before them

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57296803

 

right at the end of an article full of warnings of this “very dangerous variant” it says this 

“There is no evidence that any mutations of the coronavirus cause much more serious illness for the vast majority of people.“

 

jesus wept 

Edited 31 May, 2021 by Turkish

[Whitey Grandad]

Why don’t they just buy variants in bulk from the Chinese? They can make them cheaper and in bigger volumes.

[Whitey Grandad]

5 hours ago, Turkish said:

With one death today we are On the brink of a 3rd wave apparently 

 

This wave is different from all the others. It’s moving downwards.

[whelk]

BBC reporter ‘ so are we at the start of the 3rd wave?’ You hope somebody was in their ear saying the listener wants better questioning. Really is getting on my tits now this ignoring vaccine stats for drama. 

[whelk]

Although at least for this weekend we have been spared the sanctimonious reports of ‘look at all these fools on the beaches’ backed with low angle photo to make it look like everyone was on top of each other, when reality is everyone is spaced out in open air and fck all to be concerned about.

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, whelk said:

BBC reporter ‘ so are we at the start of the 3rd wave?’ You hope somebody was in their ear saying the listener wants better questioning. Really is getting on my tits now this ignoring vaccine stats for drama. 

It was about this time last year with no vaccines that things started to open up again and we covid virtually disappeared for a few months, reappearing in September when education reopened. Surely the trend would follow that as that is what happened in the rest of Europe too.

[badgerx16]

26 minutes ago, whelk said:

Although at least for this weekend we have been spared the sanctimonious reports of ‘look at all these fools on the beaches’ backed with low angle photo to make it look like everyone was on top of each other, when reality is everyone is spaced out in open air and fck all to be concerned about.

Pictures of Blackpool show it wasn't anywhere near as busy as it might have been on a 'normal' bank holiday Monday. Mind you, that might have been because many of the people headed there were sat stationary in the miles of queueing traffic on the M61, M6, and M55 for hours.

[Weston Super Saint]

Same old bollocks being peddled about delaying the end of lockdown.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57313399

Yep, we get it, less restrictions means the number of cases will rise.  Inevitably this will also lead to a rise in hospitalisations.  Interestingly the article on the BBC doesn't mention deaths at all so it's safe to assume they aren't rising.

They also don't mention whether those in hospital are people who are eligible for the vaccine but haven't had it, I'm working on the assumption that the majority of them fit that criteria as there would be no reason not to report it if they weren't...

[Weston Super Saint]

43 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Pictures of Blackpool show it wasn't anywhere near as busy as it might have been on a 'normal' bank holiday Monday. Mind you, that might have been because many of the people headed there were sat stationary in the miles of queueing traffic on the M61, M6, and M55 for hours.

Or because it's a shit hole (and the Glaswegians who normally go there aren't allowed out to play).

[badgerx16]

20 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Or because it's a shit hole (and the Glaswegians who normally go there aren't allowed out to play).

No, we were going in the opposite direction as we were having a family BBQ at our son's house in Ashton-Under-Lyne, so we passed the queues going out in the morning, and again in the opposite direction when went home in the evening. In the late morning there was stationary north-west bound traffic all the way back to Rivington services on the M61. At about 19:00 the M55 eastbound was a car park from the M6 junction at Broughton, all the way back to Blackpool.

Edited 1 June, 2021 by badgerx16

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

It was about this time last year with no vaccines that things started to open up again and we covid virtually disappeared for a few months, reappearing in September when education reopened. Surely the trend would follow that as that is what happened in the rest of Europe too.

I'm not sure the time of year really has all that much effect, I think last years' lull was largely coincidental with the lockdown, followed by the Kent variant. India in April is hardly Baltic and Brazil had horrendous death rates in Southern hemisphere summer.

[Jimmy_D]

21 hours ago, Turkish said:

With one death today we are On the brink of a 3rd wave apparently 

 

It’s already visible that there’s been a concerning rise in cases with the current level of lockdown easing.

All the way through there has been a delay of 1-2 weeks between an increase in cases and an increase in hospitalisations, and a delay of 2-3 weeks for increases in deaths.

There’s a high possibility that the vaccination programme so far will have broken that link between cases and hospitalisations/deaths, but there simply isn’t the data to back that up just yet, so they haven’t made a decision on delaying the next lockdown easing yet.

We’re vaccinating at a very fast rate, which is improving our position all the time, I was lucky enough to be vaccinated yesterday. If there is a need for a short delay (which certainly isn’t definite yet), it would make a genuine difference in how vulnerable on average those remaining unvaccinated are.

[LGTL]

1 hour ago, Jimmy_D said:

It’s already visible that there’s been a concerning rise in cases with the current level of lockdown easing.

All the way through there has been a delay of 1-2 weeks between an increase in cases and an increase in hospitalisations, and a delay of 2-3 weeks for increases in deaths.

There’s a high possibility that the vaccination programme so far will have broken that link between cases and hospitalisations/deaths, but there simply isn’t the data to back that up just yet, so they haven’t made a decision on delaying the next lockdown easing yet.

We’re vaccinating at a very fast rate, which is improving our position all the time, I was lucky enough to be vaccinated yesterday. If there is a need for a short delay (which certainly isn’t definite yet), it would make a genuine difference in how vulnerable on average those remaining unvaccinated are.

A short delay becomes a slightly longer delay and then becomes a delay. We’ve been here before and it never fucking ends. 

[Turkish]

Zero deaths in the UK today.

Infections up slightly

[whelk]

Zero deaths yesterday. Delta variant will kill us all. Sanitise your hand 6 times a day is our only hope.

[Weston Super Saint]

12 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Zero deaths in the UK today.

Infections up slightly

It's almost as if the data is telling us that the vaccine is working 😲

[Jimmy_D]

15 minutes ago, LGTL said:

A short delay becomes a slightly longer delay and then becomes a delay. We’ve been here before and it never fucking ends. 

We’re doing pretty well in the UK, but worldwide COVID is worse than it’s ever been, it’s a threat like nothing else we’ve faced in our lifetime.

No-one wants to keep putting restrictions in place, and everyone wants it to all be over, but the fact is that it isn’t. Unfortunately it won’t be completely over for a long time to come.

Until then it’s a case of doing what we can to beat it and minimising the cost to health and wellbeing, both from the effects of Covid itself and the effects of restrictions.

[S-Clarke]

2 hours ago, Jimmy_D said:

We’re doing pretty well in the UK, but worldwide COVID is worse than it’s ever been, it’s a threat like nothing else we’ve faced in our lifetime.

No-one wants to keep putting restrictions in place, and everyone wants it to all be over, but the fact is that it isn’t. Unfortunately it won’t be completely over for a long time to come.

Until then it’s a case of doing what we can to beat it and minimising the cost to health and wellbeing, both from the effects of Covid itself and the effects of restrictions.

What you say is true, but should what is happening in other countries be reason enough to keep killing our own economy and peoples livelihoods? I don't think so.

We're on top of it through vaccinations and treatment in our hospitals. The death figures today of 0 should send a sigh of relief to everyone and for me should be even more strength to June 21st still happening. Death figures haven't been in double figures for weeks now, they've been dropping and dropping. That shows that vaccinations are working, and so far the perceived panic over this Indian variant isn't translating into the figures that really do matter and what any decisions should be based on.

I don't see any reason to panic anymore and come June 21st we should be free to live our lives as we wish and use our own common sense as we see fit. I'm fed up of living in a world full of people who require a rule book before they step across a road.

Edited 1 June, 2021 by S-Clarke