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Posted (edited)

Is that really how vaccine efficacy stacks up? 80% means that the vaccine doesn’t work for 1 in 5 people? I thought (or assumed really) it was more that the vaccine works for everyone but only gives on average 80% protection? Hence why scientists can say that they’re confident it will massively cut down on hospitalisations and deaths, it won’t stop the disease entirely but will mostly ensure severe and hospitalisation cases are prevented.

Edited by The Kraken
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20 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Is that really how vaccine efficacy stacks up? 80% means that the vaccine doesn’t work for 1 in 5 people? I thought (or assumed really) it was more that the vaccine works for everyone but only gives on average 80% protection? Hence why scientists can say that they’re confident it will massively cut down on hospitalisations and deaths, it won’t stop the disease entirely but will mostly ensure severe and hospitalisation cases are prevented.

Yes completely misleading to say 20% don’t have protection. And it is important what level of protection ie not getting seriously ill

https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2021/azd1222-us-phase-iii-primary-analysis-confirms-safety-and-efficacy.html

 

 

6BF53AE3-ADEC-4E21-8B11-E26B308FBE9B.jpeg

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3 hours ago, The Kraken said:

Is that really how vaccine efficacy stacks up? 80% means that the vaccine doesn’t work for 1 in 5 people? 

No.

As Whelk points out, the efficacy will affect the severity of the illness in vaccinated people - hence why the old and vulnerable were vaccinated first to provide as much protection as possible.

No idea where Egg gets the 1 in 5 people thing from.

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Quentin Letts writing about Hancock in The Times yesterday about Parliament,

“And if the clanking toll of the leprosy collection cart’s bell ever permitted, he hoped that they would “enjoy the new freedoms that we’re thankfully able to give them”.

And this is how he really does see it: “new” freedoms, and he is “giving them” to us. You lucky people.“

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4 hours ago, CollinsDic said:

Oooooo that deadly India Variant. So deadly is it that flights from India to the UK are still going ahead.

https://www.airport-london-heathrow.com/lhr-arrivals-airline-air-india

Wakey.

We take flights from India too here in Aus - only passengers who test negative can get on. Do they have to hotel quarantine in UK for 2 weeks as well or not when landing? 

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44 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

We take flights from India too here in Aus - only passengers who test negative can get on. Do they have to hotel quarantine in UK for 2 weeks as well or not when landing? 

They are supposed to.

The bigger issue is that they arrive at the airports with other flights (some from countries that don't have to quarantine / isolate) and can spend many hours in immigration mixing freely with little to no separation.

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57 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

They are supposed to.

The bigger issue is that they arrive at the airports with other flights (some from countries that don't have to quarantine / isolate) and can spend many hours in immigration mixing freely with little to no separation.

It is crazy. There are 5 terminals at Heathrow.  Why don't they send incoming flights to different terminals depending on the status of the country where the flight originated?

 

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13 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

It is crazy. There are 5 terminals at Heathrow.  Why don't they send incoming flights to different terminals depending on the status of the country where the flight originated?

 

Cost.

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2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

They are supposed to.

The bigger issue is that they arrive at the airports with other flights (some from countries that don't have to quarantine / isolate) and can spend many hours in immigration mixing freely with little to no separation.

ah gotcha..yeah seems a bit stupid that does.

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2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Cost.

Penny wise. Pound foolish. The cost of opening up a couple of extra terminals would be dwarfed by the cost of the virus and potential variants spreading around the arrival hall.

 

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10 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

Penny wise. Pound foolish. The cost of opening up a couple of extra terminals would be dwarfed by the cost of the virus and potential variants spreading around the arrival hall.

 

Unless somebody is actually going to pay the airlines, airports and other contractors to operate this way, they aren't going to do it. Most of them are barely staying afloat as it is with what's happened in the last 15 months.

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3 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Cost.

I understand the point, but it shouldn't be an issue.

Airport and airline owners have been baying to get their industry up and running, so really should have thought this through.  Yep, it will cost more to open up more terminals, but that cost should be passed on to the consumer.  If the ticket prices are higher as a result, then that will be self prohibitive and reduce unnecessary international travel.

The airlines want to be at full capacity as soon as possible (completely understandable), so won't want to introduce anything that might hinder that.

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4 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

It is crazy. There are 5 terminals at Heathrow.  Why don't they send incoming flights to different terminals depending on the status of the country where the flight originated?

 

The terminals are associated with individual airlines and shuffling the aircraft around the airport is not straightforward. There is also the question of airline staff having to operate at different terminals.

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54 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

.I understand the point, but it shouldn't be an issue.

Airport and airline owners have been baying to get their industry up and running, so really should have thought this through.  Yep, it will cost more to open up more terminals, but that cost should be passed on to the consumer.  If the ticket prices are higher as a result, then that will be self prohibitive and reduce unnecessary international travel.

The airlines want to be at full capacity as soon as possible (completely understandable), so won't want to introduce anything that might hinder that.

The point is that you're asking an industry on its knees to go to great trouble and expense to implement a procedure voluntarily. They're not going to do that. Passing the cost on to the consumer isn't going to work either, at a time when airlines and airports are desperately vying for each others business. Unless somebody actually enforces this as a legal requirement, it's not going to happen.

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1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

The point is that you're asking an industry on its knees to go to great trouble and expense to implement a procedure voluntarily. They're not going to do that. Passing the cost on to the consumer isn't going to work either, at a time when airlines and airports are desperately vying for each others business. Unless somebody actually enforces this as a legal requirement, it's not going to happen.

I agree, completely reasonable response from the industry - it should have been legislated for way before it was all opened up, but I think the Govt's current stance on going / not going on holiday tells you all you need to know about their thought process.  Always trying to please everyone and ending up with some mish mashed bollocks of a policy!

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What the hell has happened with the Japanese and their lean modelling getting to grips with a vaccination programme.

Just 3% of population have some level of vaccination. We are at over 70%

Apparently 80% want the Olympics cancelled

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Small statistical milestone coming up - Currently just under 900 in hospital and dropping by around 20 per day. When it drops below 770 it’ll be the lowest number since records began in March 2020.

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If it was known that India had this awful new strand of such a deadly virus, would it not be logical too assume any sane government would ban flights from that country? Almost makes you wonder if the whole thing is a sham, assuming you have the ability to see through those sorts of things.

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, CollinsDic said:

If it was known that India had this awful new strand of such a deadly virus, would it not be logical too assume any sane government would ban flights from that country? Almost makes you wonder if the whole thing is a sham, assuming you have the ability to see through those sorts of things.

Are you Scally in disguise ?

( Oh, and I heard that Collin wants his dic back. )

Edited by badgerx16
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1 hour ago, CollinsDic said:

If it was known that India had this awful new strand of such a deadly virus, would it not be logical too assume any sane government would ban flights from that country? Almost makes you wonder if the whole thing is a sham, assuming you have the ability to see through those sorts of things.

It could all just be a big conspiracy or it could be that B.1.617 has several mutations that are present in other variants of interest/concern or that have been shown to have antigenic escape in laboratory experiments. Discussed here are changes in positions 484, 452 and 681. E484Q is present in B.1.617. Mutations in position 484 are present in the three global variants of concern, but these variants contains E484K. There is limited evidence for the role of E484Q in immune escape – it was shown to have reduced neutralisation by some but not all convalescent plasma samples from people who have had natural infection with SARS-CoV-2 using an experimental system (Greaney et al., 2021, Cell Host & Microbe 29, 463–476). L452R is present in B.1.617. This is present in several variants of interest, including B.1.429 (associated with California). This mutation has been associated with weaker neutralisation of the virus by convalescent plasma from people who have been infected with SARS-CoV-2, and/or some monoclonal antibodies in laboratory experiments. P681R is present in B.1.617. P681R or P681H is also present in several variants under investigation in the UK, including A.23.1/E484K, B.1.1.7 and B1.318. This is located adjacent to the furin cleavage site of the spike protein, which could mean a change in spike protein processing or other changes in biology. More evidence is needed to understand the virus changes that result from the specific combination of mutations present in B.1.617.

What do you reckon?

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1 minute ago, aintforever said:

It could all just be a big conspiracy or it could be that B.1.617 has several mutations that are present in other variants of interest/concern or that have been shown to have antigenic escape in laboratory experiments. Discussed here are changes in positions 484, 452 and 681. E484Q is present in B.1.617. Mutations in position 484 are present in the three global variants of concern, but these variants contains E484K. There is limited evidence for the role of E484Q in immune escape – it was shown to have reduced neutralisation by some but not all convalescent plasma samples from people who have had natural infection with SARS-CoV-2 using an experimental system (Greaney et al., 2021, Cell Host & Microbe 29, 463–476). L452R is present in B.1.617. This is present in several variants of interest, including B.1.429 (associated with California). This mutation has been associated with weaker neutralisation of the virus by convalescent plasma from people who have been infected with SARS-CoV-2, and/or some monoclonal antibodies in laboratory experiments. P681R is present in B.1.617. P681R or P681H is also present in several variants under investigation in the UK, including A.23.1/E484K, B.1.1.7 and B1.318. This is located adjacent to the furin cleavage site of the spike protein, which could mean a change in spike protein processing or other changes in biology. More evidence is needed to understand the virus changes that result from the specific combination of mutations present in B.1.617.

What do you reckon?

:lol::lol::lol: Trying to make yourself look clever when all you've done is a direct copy and paste from this trying to pass it off as your own

 

expert reaction to cases of variant B.1.617 (the ‘Indian variant’) being investigated in the UK | Science Media Centre

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol: 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Turkish said:

:lol::lol::lol: Trying to make yourself look clever when all you've done is a direct copy and paste from this trying to pass it off as your own

 

expert reaction to cases of variant B.1.617 (the ‘Indian variant’) being investigated in the UK | Science Media Centre

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol: 

Yeah, because I was trying to pass it off as my own. :lol:

I was just highlighting the fact that he knows fuck all about the science. And there is a reason why certain variants are labelled as of concern, and it's nothing to do with governments wanting to lock people up.

Edited by aintforever
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6 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Yeah, because I was trying to pass it off as my own. :lol:

I was just highlighting the fact that he knows fuck all about the science.  

Evidently neither do you, that's why you googled "what do we know about the indian variant" and copied and paste word for word the first article you could find. :lol:

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Just now, Turkish said:

Evidently neither do you, that's why you googled "what do we know about the indian variant" and copied and paste word for word the first article you could find. :lol:

I'm not a scientist but I have a better grasp that your junior school level understanding. 

My point was obvious to anyone with half a brain - there are reasons for certain strains being of concern and it's nothing to do with paranoid conspiracy theories thought up by thick twats like you.

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17 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Yeah, because I was trying to pass it off as my own. :lol:

I was just highlighting the fact that he knows fuck all about the science. And there is a reason why certain variants are labelled as of concern, and it's nothing to do with governments wanting to lock people up.

What has that got to do with letting flights in from a country that is so badly hit with variants?

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11 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I'm not a scientist but I have a better grasp that your junior school level understanding. 

My point was obvious to anyone with half a brain - there are reasons for certain strains being of concern and it's nothing to do with paranoid conspiracy theories thought up by thick twats like you.

It wasn’t your point it was someone else’s. You don’t have an understanding. you just copy and paste articles from scientists. Anyone can do that even as someone as dense as you 🤣🤣🤣🤣

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5 minutes ago, CollinsDic said:

What has that got to do with letting flights in from a country that is so badly hit with variants?

That was probably more to do with the fact that Boris was due to fly out and try and do a trade deal with India. Or just a government fuck up.

 

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1 minute ago, Turkish said:

It wasn’t your point it was someone else’s. You don’t have an understanding. you just copy and paste articles from scientists. Anyone can do that even as someone as dense as you 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Of course it was, it was Prof Sharon Peacock, Director of COG-UK, and Professor of Public Health and Microbiology, University of Cambridge.

Do you disagree with her opinion then? Or is she part of a big conspiracy to prolong lockdown?  :lol:

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2 hours ago, CollinsDic said:

If it was known that India had this awful new strand of such a deadly virus, would it not be logical too assume any sane government would ban flights from that country? Almost makes you wonder if the whole thing is a sham, assuming you have the ability to see through those sorts of things.

Yeah, I’ve got this mate in Chennai who says the government pay him 2000 rupees a day to lay on top of a burning pyre and pretend he’s a Covid corpse.

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24 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Quick, lock everyone down again

You keep saying this (sarcastically) but I don’t think I’ve actually seen it being mooted by anybody of authority or standing.

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8 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

You keep saying this (sarcastically) but I don’t think I’ve actually seen it being mooted by anybody of authority or standing.

You're right, it's just some of the mugs on here that know so much about science that shit themselves every times there is a report of a new variant. 

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Now that the Indian varient has been reported as not that dangerous.  Here comes the 'Triple Mutant' varient.  This one has a "strange combination" of genes.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9606331/New-triple-mutant-Covid-strange-combination-genes-probed-virologists.html

I dread to think what "varient" we will have on our shores, the closer we get to the full exit of lockdown 😞

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18 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Yeah, I’ve got this mate in Chennai who says the government pay him 2000 rupees a day to lay on top of a burning pyre and pretend he’s a Covid corpse.

And you were not clever enough to check out the news images and realise they are re-running images from the 2004 Tsunami. LOL. This is what i mean when i say incapable of critical thinking. You just swallow everything msm gives you and take it as gospel, while they are laughing their nuts off at you.

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20 minutes ago, CollinsDic said:

And you were not clever enough to check out the news images and realise they are re-running images from the 2004 Tsunami. LOL. This is what i mean when i say incapable of critical thinking. You just swallow everything msm gives you and take it as gospel, while they are laughing their nuts off at you.

I can't believe that you, of all people, would swallow the 2004 Tsunami horseshit, what a completely made up load of bollocks that was :mcinnes:

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3 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Now that the Indian varient has been reported as not that dangerous.  Here comes the 'Triple Mutant' varient.  This one has a "strange combination" of genes.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9606331/New-triple-mutant-Covid-strange-combination-genes-probed-virologists.html

I dread to think what "varient" we will have on our shores, the closer we get to the full exit of lockdown 😞

Whatever happened to super mutation that that the found in Finland? They found this one just before the last easing of restrictions but hardly heard it mentioned since 

https://www.the-sun.com/news/2627827/covid-super-mutation-beat-vaccines-lockdown/

 

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4 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Now that the Indian varient has been reported as not that dangerous.  Here comes the 'Triple Mutant' varient.  This one has a "strange combination" of genes.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9606331/New-triple-mutant-Covid-strange-combination-genes-probed-virologists.html

I dread to think what "varient" we will have on our shores, the closer we get to the full exit of lockdown 😞

These variants are never, ever, ever going to stop. Not for the rest of our lives. It's incredibly boring now that we have to get scare mongering over each one.

If they zoomed in on the common cold or the yearly flu, they'd find 10004204204204 variants of that. It's just how viruses work, they mutate. Why aren't scientists telling us that to remove the panic? But no...they're not, so If we are literally going to go full on panic mode on every 'variant' then we might as well pack it all in because this is never going to end for the rest of our lives.

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1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

These variants are never, ever, ever going to stop. Not for the rest of our lives. It's incredibly boring now that we have to get scare mongering over each one.

If they zoomed in on the common cold or the yearly flu, they'd find 10004204204204 variants of that. It's just how viruses work, they mutate. Why aren't scientists telling us that to remove the panic? But no...they're not, so If we are literally going to go full on panic mode on every 'variant' then we might as well pack it all in because this is never going to end for the rest of our lives.

There are people on here who know more about science than most of us because they can copy and paste articles who wouldn’t be so quick to agree.

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4 hours ago, CollinsDic said:

And you were not clever enough to check out the news images and realise they are re-running images from the 2004 Tsunami. LOL. This is what i mean when i say incapable of critical thinking. You just swallow everything msm gives you and take it as gospel, while they are laughing their nuts off at you.

Beautiful 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

These variants are never, ever, ever going to stop. Not for the rest of our lives. It's incredibly boring now that we have to get scare mongering over each one.

If they zoomed in on the common cold or the yearly flu, they'd find 10004204204204 variants of that. It's just how viruses work, they mutate. Why aren't scientists telling us that to remove the panic? But no...they're not, so If we are literally going to go full on panic mode on every 'variant' then we might as well pack it all in because this is never going to end for the rest of our lives.

There isnt scaremongering over all of them. On average viruses replicate every 24 hours give or take and mutate about once every 10,000 generations. So if your'e infected with 100,000 virus particles you're creating 10 mutations a day. So there are billions of mutations but only a few are flagged up for concern and closer examination.  

There is a reason that India was only lightly affected in the first outbreak and hard hit in the second. 

   

Edited by buctootim
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20 minutes ago, CollinsDic said:

Now then you beautiful critical thinkers and open minded people....can you see anything wrong with this picture?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57185584.amp?fbclid=IwAR2glfq27NABa7MIHeje-nj7h8lv-aNu0cd2Yyjr_eGFABvkhFwLqL8RT7g

 

Wills has a long sleeve top on, he would be unlikely to be able to roll the sleeve up to over his shoulder due to the smaller circumference of the Wrist area of the sleeve.

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