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Taking The Knee at Games

M271

By M271,
in The Saints

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SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, TWar said:

Go on then. What is the answer? So far your answer seems to be to ignore it and hope it goes away and if anyone doesn't ignore it (for instance the lads from Leicester) you actively punish them for daring to speak up with "long bans". Sounds like your answer is to make it as "not your problem" as possible, kinda like BLM really. "Stop saying things I don't want to think about, I was comfortable in blissful ignorance"

If I knew the answer; i wouldn’t be on here arguing with you. But I’d say eradicate Hamas and then use an intermediate country to negotiate peace talks might be a start. 

Rockets haven’t worked for the last 50 or so years, what makes you think they will now?

Had they had flown an Israel flag, what would have your response been to that? Genuine question.

Personally, I actively support keeping politics as far away from football as possible. I see enough of that bollox on social media, the news and TV. 

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TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, SKD said:

If I knew the answer; i wouldn’t be on here arguing with you. But I’d say eradicate Hamas and then use an intermediate country to negotiate peace talks might be a start. 

Rockets haven’t worked for the last 50 or so years, what makes you think they will now?

Had they had flown an Israel flag, what would have your response been to that? Genuine question.

Personally, I actively support keeping politics as far away from football as possible. I see enough of that bollox on social media, the news and TV. 

So your best guess is to take out the only means of fighting back the small oppressed group has and then hope that Israel, a country which has been driving Palestinians out of their homes for decades and murdering people in their thousands, will negotiate peace. Why? Why on earth would they do that? It's not a war with two sides, its one group being brutalised and murdered by another.

If Palestinians had all the power and were oppressing Israeli's then my response would be the same. However its more like me getting a couple of little kicks in as I'm beaten to death, the context of the kicks matter. Again your goal is to push politics away, but that helps no one except you, and people like Fofana know that. You wanting them silenced is not a fair thing to request. The only way Palestine stand a chance is if the rest of the world helps, and that won't happen without changing public opinion.

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aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, SKD said:

They have a choice in that they’re not forced down on a knee, but from a PR point of view (let’s be honest, they’re not all that intelligent), there will be some who are scared of the consequences of not taking the knee. 
 

Loads of players have stopped doing it - guess what, no one cares.

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SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, TWar said:

So your best guess is to take out the only means of fighting back the small oppressed group has and then hope that Israel, a country which has been driving Palestinians out of their homes for decades and murdering people in their thousands, will negotiate peace. Why? Why on earth would they do that? It's not a war with two sides, its one group being brutalised and murdered by another.

If Palestinians had all the power and were oppressing Israeli's then my response would be the same. However its more like me getting a couple of little kicks in as I'm beaten to death, the context of the kicks matter. Again your goal is to push politics away, but that helps no one except you, and people like Fofana know that. You wanting them silenced is not a fair thing to request. The only way Palestine stand a chance is if the rest of the world helps, and that won't happen without changing public opinion.

You’re a danger mate. Let’s hope you get nowhere near any weapons that can kill. Christ. 
 

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Jeremy Corbyn

Jeremy Corbyn

Posted
Posted
39 minutes ago, SKD said:

So other than the knee (which has links to far left organisations) there are no alternatives to show you oppose racism? Which, in this country, is pretty rare might I add. 

If a footballer refused to take the knee but decided to do something else anti-racism, I dunno kicked Farage in the balls or something, then I suspect they might be perceived as not racist.  I also doubt they'd be perceived as being racist just by refusing, just lacking concern for it.

Also, taking the knee may "have links" to a "far left" organisation as you put it, but as this image of Martin Luther King suggests, it's not BLM's fucking copyright.  The only issue with it is that people aren't bright enough, so rather then actually thinking about it, they just go off what they read on social media and what their equally thick mates say.

Martin Luther King Jr. took a knee in 1965. Here's a history of the powerful pose. - National | Globalnews.ca

As for this country not having much racism, I guess that's subjective, and whilst we aren't as awful as some parts of the world, there are still large parts of the population who have issue with "foriners" and we all know it.

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Sweet dee

Sweet dee

Posted
Posted

I don't really understand anyone being angry at people taking a stand or this case a knee against racism, and as for the complaints of it being political, well yeah it is, highlighting inequality, asking for change, or kicking against prejudice is political, why be angry at that, the fans protesting the European super league was political, and that's generally been seen as a good thing 

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SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

The argument "you shouldn't mix politics and sport" is the last cry of someone who doesn't have anything to say.

Isn’t it interesting how these debates weren’t being had when the premier league used ‘kick it out’, which, unlike BLM, had no political links. 

Of course the knee isn’t a copyright for BLM the organisation, but its a gesture that they adopted and in recent times, it’s a link to that organisation, so naturally, people’s thoughts when they see it link to BLM riots. Similar to the nazi’s adopting the swastik.

Given your username, it’s pretty clear which side of the fence you sit, so it’s a pointless debate with you to be honest. I tend to find your lot always are do / agree as we say or your a nazi. 

Given your clear support for footballers using the sport as a platform for political speech, I’d be very interested to see your reaction if they came out with a stance which you didn’t agree with. 

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JustinSFC

JustinSFC

Posted
Posted

I'm mixed. Black (Ivory coast father) white mother.

So I see both sides. I personally find BLM way over the top.

But I'm going to say this.

This forum these days is absolutely fucked straight down the shitter reading this thread.

It's gone, completely fucking gone.

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SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

I'm mixed. Black (Ivory coast father) white mother.

So I see both sides. I personally find BLM way over the top.

But I'm going to say this.

This forum these days is absolutely fucked straight down the shitter reading this thread.

It's gone, completely fucking gone.

I’m actually interested in hearing your opinion on this in more detail. Given that you’re a man of mixed heritage and more likely to be a victim of racism than most on this thread who are outraged for you. 

Do you see taking the knee as a good thing for fighting racism? Or more as a token gesture?

 
Have you or any of your friends / family suffered racism in football? 

What are your thoughts on the UK being racist as a whole? (Ignoring Social media for now as that’s a cesspit of hate). 

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Jeremy Corbyn

Jeremy Corbyn

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, SKD said:

Isn’t it interesting how these debates weren’t being had when the premier league used ‘kick it out’, which, unlike BLM, had no political links. 

Of course the knee isn’t a copyright for BLM the organisation, but its a gesture that they adopted and in recent times, it’s a link to that organisation, so naturally, people’s thoughts when they see it link to BLM riots. Similar to the nazi’s adopting the swastik.

Given your username, it’s pretty clear which side of the fence you sit, so it’s a pointless debate with you to be honest. I tend to find your lot always are do / agree as we say or your a nazi. 

Given your clear support for footballers using the sport as a platform for political speech, I’d be very interested to see your reaction if they came out with a stance which you didn’t agree with. 

So taking the knee is like wearing a swastika?  BLM are like the nazis?  Fucking hell.

And to your latter point, it's literally freedom of speech which the right rabbit on about all the time.  If a footballer wants to come out and say or do something I disagree with, then I completely support their ability to do so.  I don't start winging about my little football match being ruined by the bendy knees.

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SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted
Just now, Jeremy Corbyn said:

So taking the knee is like wearing a swastika?  BLM are like the nazis?  Fucking hell.

And to your latter point, it's literally freedom of speech which the right rabbit on about all the time.  If a footballer wants to come out and say or do something I disagree with, then I completely support their ability to do so.  I don't start winging about my little football match being ruined by the bendy knees.

Absolutely didn’t say that, but well done for missing the point. 

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SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted
Just now, aintforever said:

Just like getting down on one knee then.

The gesture in itself isn’t, of course it’s not. It’s the link to BLM and BLM’s links to politics that are. 

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JustinSFC

JustinSFC

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, SKD said:

I’m actually interested in hearing your opinion on this in more detail. Given that you’re a man of mixed heritage and more likely to be a victim of racism than most on this thread who are outraged for you. 

Do you see taking the knee as a good thing for fighting racism? Or more as a token gesture?

 
Have you or any of your friends / family suffered racism in football? 

What are your thoughts on the UK being racist as a whole? (Ignoring Social media for now as that’s a cesspit of hate). 

God's honest truth.

I've been a target of racism once, when I was about 11 or 12 a gang of lads pushed me off my bike and stamped on my hand.

I'm not entirely sure it was racism, but I can't think why a pack of 17/18 year olds would do that to an 11 year old.

My cousin (also mixed), was set upon by a gang over Millbrook when he was about 16.

That gang had the shit kicked out of them a few years later.

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SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, aintforever said:

The Poppy isn't a political symbol but it has links to the British army in the same way.

Ironically, the Poppy’s links are to those who done more to more to fight actual facisim than BLM could ever do. 

Edited by SKD
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East Kent Saint

East Kent Saint

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, aintforever said:

The Poppy isn't a political symbol but it has links to the British army in the same way.

It shouldn’t be a political symbol because it was to signify people who died in WW1 but the right have tried to make it one . Hence if on tv you don’t wear one you are some kind of commie etc .

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verlaine1979

verlaine1979

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, SKD said:

Isn’t it interesting how these debates weren’t being had when the premier league used ‘kick it out’, which, unlike BLM, had no political links. 

Of course the knee isn’t a copyright for BLM the organisation, but its a gesture that they adopted and in recent times, it’s a link to that organisation, so naturally, people’s thoughts when they see it link to BLM riots. Similar to the nazi’s adopting the swastik.

Given your username, it’s pretty clear which side of the fence you sit, so it’s a pointless debate with you to be honest. I tend to find your lot always are do / agree as we say or your a nazi. 

Given your clear support for footballers using the sport as a platform for political speech, I’d be very interested to see your reaction if they came out with a stance which you didn’t agree with. 

Which aspect of Kick It Out obliged fans to confront their own complicity (or overt racism) before each and every game?

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TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted

The issue with the Poppy is it is linked to the British military. And while the military has certainly been on the right side of history (WW2 for example) it has also been on the wrong side a few times (atrocities in Ireland, India, Middle east ect.). For people from the UK we remember the good things our military has done but I don't blame an Irish person if our involvement in WW2 isn't the first thing that comes to mind when they think British Soldiers.

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SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, TWar said:

The issue with the Poppy is it is linked to the British military. And while the military has certainly been on the right side of history (WW2 for example) it has also been on the wrong side a few times (atrocities in Ireland, India, Middle east ect.). For people from the UK we remember the good things our military has done but I don't blame an Irish person if our involvement in WW2 isn't the first thing that comes to mind when they think British Soldiers.

the Irish should have just fired a few rockets at us, innit. 

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TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, SKD said:

the Irish should have just fired a few rockets at us, innit. 

They did, if you remember they blew quite a few things up. As it happens, that probably helped give them some leverage in the ensuing peace deals. If they had just rolled over and let the British do what they wanted they probably wouldn't have been anywhere near as effective in the good Friday agreement. Good lesson for Palestine to learn, some might say.

Edited by TWar
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Baird of the land

Baird of the land

Posted
Posted
57 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

It shouldn’t be a political symbol because it was to signify people who died in WW1 but the right have tried to make it one . Hence if on tv you don’t wear one you are some kind of commie etc .

Except the waters have been muddied by changing it to signify all conflicts in more recent years.

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SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, TWar said:

They did, if you remember they blew quite a few things up. As it happens, that probably helped give them some leverage in the ensuing peace deals. If they had just rolled over and let the British do what they wanted they probably wouldn't have been anywhere near as effective in the good Friday agreement. Good lesson for Palestine to learn, some might say.

Disrespectful and incredibly bad taste. Please don’t try and justify outright terrorism and the death of innocent families as some kind of freedom fighting tactic. 
 

You should be ashamed. 
 

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Ohio Saint

Ohio Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)

The whole premier league kneeling thing, while probably well intentioned seems plastic and insincere.  

It should not be overly compared to the American origins, just as we should both be allowed to pronounce and spell alluminium differently. 

To think that the meaning of the gesture can be attributed to any political persuasion, company or team is just batshit crazy.

It is a gesture that will be strong for some. Insignificant for others. They are all represented on the pitch.

 

My only reservations are just how obliged by contract these players are made to observe this custom. That concern is posed by capitalism, not Marxism.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ohio Saint
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Jeremy Corbyn

Jeremy Corbyn

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Ohio Saint said:

The whole premier league kneeling thing, while probably well intentioned seems plastic and insincere.  

It should not be overly compared to the American origins, just as we should both be allowed to pronounce and spell alluminium differently. 

To think that the meaning of the gesture can be attributed to any political persuasion, company or team is just batshit crazy.

It is a gesture that will be strong for some. Insignificant for others. They are all represented on the pitch.

 

My only reservations are just how obliged by contract these players are made to observe this custom. That concern is posed by capitalism, not Marxism.

 

 

 

 

My guess would be the clubs approached the players and said "by the way, can you take the knee to show support for getting rid of racism" and the players went "yeah, of course, few seconds of effort, why wouldn't we?".  I expect the club, for balance, responded, "oh, but you have to consider that the gesture is loosely aligned with an organisation that is slightly left leaning", to which I expect the players responded "oh, you mean like Ryan?".

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TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, SKD said:

Disrespectful and incredibly bad taste. Please don’t try and justify outright terrorism and the death of innocent families as some kind of freedom fighting tactic. 
 

You should be ashamed. 
 

We pretending the IRA didn't act for a political cause, and didn't help in achieving their goals? I'm not commenting on the ethics of those goals. Also you seemed fine with dismissing the deaths of hundreds of innocents including children so a little late to claim moral high ground. 

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Uncle Albert

Uncle Albert

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, SKD said:

good to hear a large amount of boo’s before kick off 👍🏻

Listen here mate, I’m pretty sure most people on here have had enough of your personal crusade against taking the knee, we’ve got the point now can you please shut the fuck up. Many thanks.

Edited by Uncle Albert
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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Uncle Albert said:

Listen here mate, I’m pretty sure most people on here have had enough of your personal crusade against taking the knee, we’ve got the point now can you please shut the fuck up. Many thanks.

Personally I like hearing a diversity of views. Keep it up skd, don't let unpleasant and spiteful people stop you from making valid points. 

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Saint Garrett

Saint Garrett

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, JRM said:

I'm looking forward to tuning into Burnley game tomorrow, unless SKY dub it out there will be a very clear message sent by the fans 👍

Last time I went to Burnley away , I walked into a pub, and the first bloke I saw, had a swastika symbol tattooed on his neck. Not sure that’s a great base tbh. 

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

Last time I went to Burnley away , I walked into a pub, and the first bloke I saw, had a swastika symbol tattooed on his neck. Not sure that’s a great base tbh. 

Well I'm convinced. Burnley fans are nazis. Confirmed! 

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SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

Last time I went to Burnley away , I walked into a pub, and the first bloke I saw, had a swastika symbol tattooed on his neck. Not sure that’s a great base tbh. 

Assuming he’s a nazi? How do you know it isn’t Just a symbol of peace and good luck?

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