Deflection Tactics

[Charlie Wayman]

The OS seems obsessed at the moment running old match clips of Saints scoring goals by the bucket-load for fun, superb winning performances by our teams and highlighting great goals of the recent past such as Lambert's best ever net busters, Beattie's best brace and so on.

Very suspicious timing when the pressure is on, we cannot buy a win, spiders have time during our attacks to spin webs across opposition goal posts and our junior teams show the white flag before they kick-off. 

The classic political tactic of attempting to deflect fans minds from the reality of the failures of the present?

The irony is that none of the current bunch of clowns running the show were part of our successful journey back from obscurity that seems now more than ever to be in jeopardy.

Edited 29 September, 2021 by Charlie Wayman

[stevy777_x]

15 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

The OS seems obsessed at the moment running old match clips of Saints scoring goals by the bucket-load for fun, superb winning performances by our teams and highlighting great goals of the recent past such as Lambert's best ever net busters, Beattie's best brace and so on.

Very suspicious timing when the pressure is on, we cannot buy a win, spiders have time during our attacks to spin webs across opposition goal posts and our junior teams show the white flag before they kick-off. 

The classic political tactic of attempting to deflect fans minds from the reality of the failures of the present?

The irony is that none of the current bunch of clowns running the show were part of our successful journey back from obscurity that seems now more than ever to be in jeopardy.

This bunch of clowns you mention finished clear of relegation 3 seasons running but do continue to post drivel

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, stevy777_x said:

This bunch of clowns you mention finished clear of relegation 3 seasons running but do continue to post drivel

Is that the aim then? Survival is sucess?

[skintsaint]

14 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Is that the aim then? Survival is sucess?

Depressing thought eh? ......the joys of being a Saints fan right now.

[stevy777_x]

15 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Is that the aim then? Survival is sucess?

With no investment by the owner, yes.

[trousers]

29 minutes ago, stevy777_x said:

This bunch of clowns you mention finished clear of relegation 3 seasons running but do continue to post drivel

 

25 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Is that the aim then? Survival is sucess?

 

9 minutes ago, stevy777_x said:

With no investment by the owner, yes.

It shouldn't be the aim but, alas, when a club is in a state of ownership limbo, it's the unfortunate reality. 

[nta786]

26 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Is that the aim then? Survival is sucess?

I think historically it always has been unfortunately...

We'll continue to use soundbites of "breaking into single digits is a great achievement for Southampton" but depressingly deep down I know if we finished 17th every season for the next 10 years the owner will be largely content. 

It's not sustainable for any team beyond United/Chelsea/Liverpool/Man City to finish in a European position let's say... 5 years in a row. Arsenal and Spurs probably will too but I'd guess they won't be consistently top 4 any time soon.

The best we can hope for is what we managed between 2014-2017, and what Leicester are doing from 2016 to present.

Leicester probably won't even finish in top 6/7 this year.

 

[RedArmy]

41 minutes ago, stevy777_x said:

This bunch of clowns you mention finished clear of relegation 3 seasons running but do continue to post drivel

So they achieved the bare minimum? 

[saint1977]

It’s going to be the reality until the real game kicks in with relegation which is a fact sooner or later with the rudderless ownership and not being able to compete so blatantly. That brings a scenario whether either Gao sells for a smaller amount to get out of the PRC altogether with or admin with MSD getting the keys.

The sooner this happens the better tbh because Gao can’t afford the club in the PL with Sky money and would only get a small fraction of his asking price in the Champ, albeit enough to start a new life with. People have posted that he isn’t allowed to sell at a loss by the PRC authorities but that’s bunk because if they take it off him, they have to fund it which they won’t want to do, especially with horror of horrors an American lender owed a wedge from 2025.

Derby are in a far worse mess but there seems to be plenty of bidders at the reduced price. League 1 was ok, get a good buyer and get going again upwards.

[cloggy saint]

57 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Is that the aim then? Survival is sucess?

Yep, that's the way it is and pretty much the way it's always been, deal with it.

[The Left Back]

2 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

The OS seems obsessed at the moment running old match clips of Saints scoring goals by the bucket-load for fun, superb winning performances by our teams and highlighting great goals of the recent past such as Lambert's best ever net busters, Beattie's best brace and so on.

Very suspicious timing when the pressure is on, we cannot buy a win, spiders have time during our attacks to spin webs across opposition goal posts and our junior teams show the white flag before they kick-off. 

The classic political tactic of attempting to deflect fans minds from the reality of the failures of the present?

The irony is that none of the current bunch of clowns running the show were part of our successful journey back from obscurity that seems now more than ever to be in jeopardy.

@Charlie WaymanI really can't agree with the point you are making here.  In my opinion the purpose of these videos is to make the OS more of a 'destination site' than merely a place you go to buy tickets.  Engaging tailored content, targeted at the market (i.e. Saints goals for Saints fans) is standard on-line Marketing 101.  The idea that is a political tactic to deflect doesn't make sense and sounds like paranoia.  I've just been on the site and the 'on this day' highlights stuff is sat next to highlights and videos of Sunday's defeat, and the latest Horsman excuses, so not much deflection.  I actually like to look back at memorable moments from the past, and would be surprised if most fans didn't?  The content is relevant as it is 'on this day' and comes in small bite-sized lumps, which are perfect for the modern user.  Would you prefer it if they showed us losing a bit more?

Your thread has initiated a rather more interesting conversation about the definition of success.  On the Ralph thread I suggested there are probably three objectives for Ralph.  (1) stay up, (2) have a crack at the cups and (3) help us build a sustainable future for the club.  I think that has broadly been the job description for most Southampton managers in the 45 years I've had a season ticket (apart from when we've needed to get promoted, when we had that golden spell in the early/mid 80s and perhaps briefly in the Poch/Koeman period). I guess on reflection perhaps I would add that a good objective to add to this would be (4) to do better than the previous season (on which measure I guess Ralph would have failed last year having succeeded the first two).

Edited 29 September, 2021 by The Left Back
forgot about the early 80s

[captainchris]

10 hours ago, stevy777_x said:

This bunch of clowns you mention finished clear of relegation 3 seasons running but do continue to post drivel

Thank you Ralph’s mum for this post….

The management of the football is pretty abysmal at the moment from the youth to the first team, if you haven’t noticed then try to pay more attention.

Avoiding relegation by the skin of your teeth whilst playing pretty crap disorganised lazy football for three years is nothing to be proud of.

 

[stevy777_x]

24 minutes ago, captainchris said:

Thank you Ralph’s mum for this post….

The management of the football is pretty abysmal at the moment from the youth to the first team, if you haven’t noticed then try to pay more attention.

Avoiding relegation by the skin of your teeth whilst playing pretty crap disorganised lazy football for three years is nothing to be proud of.

 

We ve been more organized this season but that of course you won t aknowledge it. Plus its been 6 fucking games ffs

[aintforever]

Staying in this league is success for a club with our budget, think some of our fans need to get realistic expectations.

Edited 29 September, 2021 by aintforever

[CB Fry]

33 minutes ago, captainchris said:

Thank you Ralph’s mum for this post….

The management of the football is pretty abysmal at the moment from the youth to the first team, if you haven’t noticed then try to pay more attention.

Avoiding relegation by the skin of your teeth whilst playing pretty crap disorganised lazy football for three years is nothing to be proud of.

 

We haven't avoided relegation by the skin of our teeth since the Pellegrino/Hughes season.

If you haven’t noticed then try to pay more attention.

[Lighthouse]

11 hours ago, RedArmy said:

So they achieved the bare minimum? 

The bare minimum would be staying up on G.D. On the last day of the season. The last three seasons we’ve finished:

15th - 15 points clear of relegation

11th - 18 points clear of relegation

16th - 5 points clear of relegation

That’s comparable to any sustained period under Strachan, Sturrock, Hoddle, Jones, Souness and co.

Derby are a club our size and look what an absolute state they are. I’m sure they’d kill for the ‘bare minimum’ that we’ve achieved.

[RedArmy]

12 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

The bare minimum would be staying up on G.D. On the last day of the season. The last three seasons we’ve finished:

15th - 15 points clear of relegation

11th - 18 points clear of relegation

16th - 5 points clear of relegation

That’s comparable to any sustained period under Strachan, Sturrock, Hoddle, Jones, Souness and co.

Derby are a club our size and look what an absolute state they are. I’m sure they’d kill for the ‘bare minimum’ that we’ve achieved.

If saints fans are happy to be a club that just exists, floundering in the bottom half of the premier league with no ambition to improve then it’s no wonder we end up with owners happy to sell our best players and replace them with cheap alternatives, because they know they’ll get away with it and the fans won’t kick up a fuss. 
 

 

[The Left Back]

26 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

If saints fans are happy to be a club that just exists, floundering in the bottom half of the premier league with no ambition to improve then it’s no wonder we end up with owners happy to sell our best players and replace them with cheap alternatives, because they know they’ll get away with it and the fans won’t kick up a fuss. 
 

 

You seem to have translated "bare minimum" into "happy to be a club".  Not sure if that's a misunderstanding.   I wouldn't expect anyone to be "happy to be a club" that just achieves "the bare minimum", just recognising what's needed to increase sustainability and improve the chances of building something more 'successful' to cheer on and make us happy.  

I often think about the so called yo yo clubs like Norwich, Watford and West Brom.  Would I trade the probability of misery one year for the hope of glory the next? Not sure, but it would have its thrills and spills.

We've basically hit 'the bare minimum' in all bar 3 seasons since 1978.  The seasons when I have felt 'happy to be a club' with the success of our season are probably about 10-12 of those 43 years.  Most of the other years have been either straightforward or a nerve-wracking (successful) fight against relegation.  Every season has had its narrative and it's moments, for me it's far too early to tell how this one will play out. 

[Wurzel]

12 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

The bare minimum would be staying up on G.D. On the last day of the season. The last three seasons we’ve finished:

15th - 15 points clear of relegation

11th - 18 points clear of relegation

16th - 5 points clear of relegation

That’s comparable to any sustained period under Strachan, Sturrock, Hoddle, Jones, Souness and co.

Derby are a club our size and look what an absolute state they are. I’m sure they’d kill for the ‘bare minimum’ that we’ve achieved.

 

33 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

If saints fans are happy to be a club that just exists, floundering in the bottom half of the premier league with no ambition to improve then it’s no wonder we end up with owners happy to sell our best players and replace them with cheap alternatives, because they know they’ll get away with it and the fans won’t kick up a fuss. 
 

 

There are pretty much just two options in football nowadays. Find an owner with more money than sense who will pump money into the club to acheive success. Unfortunately we are now talking oil state mega company/dubious government backed finance to acheive that, there just aren't many of them to go round. If that's what you want, there are clubs out there you can support.

The second option is try to live within your means, and through a good transfer policy, a good youth policy and good tactics, hold your own within the company of like minded clubs and hope for the occasional cup glory.

We are the second option. We're not brilliant at it. There is room for improvement, but for who we are, what we are, we are doing OK. In those 3 seasons quoted by @Lighthousewe haven't come close to going down. 3 teams that finished above us in at least one of them have gone down since. 3 more are below us at the moment. We've reached an FA Cup semi Final twice in the last 5 seasons, no other club outside of the big 6 has done that.

We'd all like to dream, we'd all like to win things, but Leicester aside, I think we've compared ok with any other club outside of the big 6 over recent times.

[Turkish]

54 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

If saints fans are happy to be a club that just exists, floundering in the bottom half of the premier league with no ambition to improve then it’s no wonder we end up with owners happy to sell our best players and replace them with cheap alternatives, because they know they’ll get away with it and the fans won’t kick up a fuss. 
 

 

A stadium 3/4 full with people paying top whack just to enjoy being part of the premier league is what they want and it's what they've got. 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, RedArmy said:

If saints fans are happy to be a club that just exists, floundering in the bottom half of the premier league with no ambition to improve then it’s no wonder we end up with owners happy to sell our best players and replace them with cheap alternatives, because they know they’ll get away with it and the fans won’t kick up a fuss. 
 

 

I think you're supporting the wrong club.

[Wurzel]

To add to my post above, finishing positions of "comparable" clubs to us. i.e. acheived the "bare minimum" of staying in the Premier League for the last 3 seasons ignoring "big 6"

Wolves  7th  7th   13th
Everton 8th  12th  10th
Leicester 9th 5th  5th
West Ham 10th 16th 6th
Palace 12th  14th  14th
Newcastle 13th  13th  12th
Burnley 15th  10th  17th
Saints 16th  11th  15th
Brighton 17th  15th  16th

Leicester won a cup in that time. None of the others have even reached a final ( Watford & Villa were both losing finalists in one of the cups but not stayed/been in top flight for all 3 years). 

Edited 30 September, 2021 by Wurzel

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, RedArmy said:

If saints fans are happy to be a club that just exists, floundering in the bottom half of the premier league with no ambition to improve then it’s no wonder we end up with owners happy to sell our best players and replace them with cheap alternatives, because they know they’ll get away with it and the fans won’t kick up a fuss. 
 

 

It's not lack of ambition, we all want to win stuff and finish high in the league, it's just an understanding of where we are in the food chain - mid/lower-mid table is not underperforming for a club of our size who's owned by someone who doesn't have spot to piss in.

Edited 30 September, 2021 by aintforever

[TWar]

The goal is to survive and achieve mid table. We have a lot of hope for the future (Livramento, Salisu, Perraud, Diallo, Armstrong, KWP, Djenepo) who are all under 25 so hopefully a couple of them develop into top top players and that's how we climb the table, either by playing them or selling them and reinvesting. But right now our team is average and it isn't getting better without funds so no point thinking about top half and europe, safety is all that matters.

[TWar]

1 hour ago, RedArmy said:

If saints fans are happy to be a club that just exists, floundering in the bottom half of the premier league with no ambition to improve then it’s no wonder we end up with owners happy to sell our best players and replace them with cheap alternatives, because they know they’ll get away with it and the fans won’t kick up a fuss. 
 

 

What's that going to do? We can moan all we like, won't effect much. They aren't going to pitch in the £100m or so it would take to really push on and be a consistent top 10/europa league side because we are moaning and are sad. We could not go to games but most money in football comes from TV money anyway now. If stadium attendance dropped by 25% that would lose them like £8m on the season in ticket sales.

[SFC Forever]

Our fans have always been amongst the quietest in the league. St Marys has always been a badly designed stadium for sound levels. I may be wrong but I have never felt the vibes we used to get from the dell with a full ground. Considering our size we have done well when looking at how many seasons we have spent in the top league.

I am not happy being a bottom half of the table team year on year but we have no chance of competing with the the money rich .

[adrian lord]

On 29/09/2021 at 11:52, stevy777_x said:

This bunch of clowns you mention finished clear of relegation 3 seasons running

That's not an achievement, it is expected. 

Edited 30 September, 2021 by adrian lord

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, SFC Forever said:

Our fans have always been amongst the quietest in the league. St Marys has always been a badly designed stadium for sound levels. I may be wrong but I have never felt the vibes we used to get from the dell with a full ground. Considering our size we have done well when looking at how many seasons we have spent in the top league.

I am not happy being a bottom half of the table team year on year but we have no chance of competing with the the money rich .

Just being part of a league isn’t something that is a wonderful achievement. Well it is if all you care about is being part of the brand. I think it’s boring as fuck and not what sport should be, certainly it wasn’t why anyone of my age group fell in love with game. I’m sure there will be people telling me how it’s not the 80s anymore and must move with the times that the premier league is the place to be and not being in it will damage our finances but if you think that then you're a football consumer not a saints fan. 

Edited 30 September, 2021 by Turkish

[Wurzel]

22 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Just being part of a league isn’t something that is a wonderful achievement. Well it is if all you care about is being part of the a brand. I think it’s boring as fuck and not what sport should be, certainly it wasn’t why anyone of age group fell in love with game. I’m sure there will be people telling me how it’s not the 80s anymore and must move with the times that the premier league is the place to be and not being in it will damage our finances is a football consumer not a saints fan. 

I'm with you. I'm 59, brought up on Channon , Davies, Paine, relegation, FA Cup win, promotion, Keegan, Shilton, Ball etc. Starting every season thinking we had a chance of winning something (as probably did fans of every club back then).  I wish, I really wish, it was still like that.I doubt, if I was a youngster now I'd feel the same attachment.

But it isn't.

Saints are doing as well as we could reasonably expect (not hope) under the present system. Nobody should be complaining about how we are (or aren't) doing as a club. Complaints should be aimed at the current set-up of football and it's finances in general which, unless financial rules drastically change, means who, what, where we are now is as good as it gets.

Just roll with it and savour the best bits when they occasionally happen.

Edited 30 September, 2021 by Wurzel

[nta786]

24 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Just being part of a league isn’t something that is a wonderful achievement. Well it is if all you care about is being part of the brand. I think it’s boring as fuck and not what sport should be, certainly it wasn’t why anyone of my age group fell in love with game. I’m sure there will be people telling me how it’s not the 80s anymore and must move with the times that the premier league is the place to be and not being in it will damage our finances but if you think that then you're a football consumer not a saints fan. 

Sorry could you elaborate more on this please? What should sport be then?

To me anyway, football offers a great stress relief to not have to think about work or life for that very moment, see my mates/family get together either at the ground or the pub and watch the football. Again, it's also about seeing my club try and compete at the highest level, and that we all know is the Premier League.

 

[Tom & Gerry]

Because we have been in the premier league for so long many of our younger and even middle aged supporters do not realize what a privilege it has been. I'm proud that a club of our size has spent so long with top flight status. That it will be a struggle at times to maintain that status is inevitable and it is always an achievement when we do. That doesn't mean that we can't punch even higher above our weight at times and maybe win a trophy or finish high in the league but that can rarely be the norm. Some of us remember where we have come from. 

[Turkish]

16 minutes ago, nta786 said:

Sorry could you elaborate more on this please? What should sport be then?

To me anyway, football offers a great stress relief to not have to think about work or life for that very moment, see my mates/family get together either at the ground or the pub and watch the football. Again, it's also about seeing my club try and compete at the highest level, and that we all know is the Premier League.

 

Is it sport when you start every season where the only aim is to scramble enough points together to stay in a competition you have no chance of winning? Where all the odds are stacked hugely in the favour of the clubs with the most money and where most of the owners of clubs are only interested in how much profit they can make? You have your reasons for watching football and to be fair these days going to a match for me is either going to my local league two club as my son is in their academy or going to watch saints to catch up with some old friends with a day out on the beers. For most people i know quite often the football, despite being what brought us together, was often the worst part of the day, as for a club like Saints we have little chance of being competitive in this so called sport. 

Edited 30 September, 2021 by Turkish

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, Tom & Gerry said:

Because we have been in the premier league for so long many of our younger and even middle aged supporters do not realize what a privilege it has been. I'm proud that a club of our size has spent so long with top flight status. That it will be a struggle at times to maintain that status is inevitable and it is always an achievement when we do. That doesn't mean that we can't punch even higher above our weight at times and maybe win a trophy or finish high in the league but that can rarely be the norm. Some of us remember where we have come from. 

Why is it a privilege? 

[cloggy saint]

7 minutes ago, Tom & Gerry said:

Because we have been in the premier league for so long many of our younger and even middle aged supporters do not realize what a privilege it has been. I'm proud that a club of our size has spent so long with top flight status. That it will be a struggle at times to maintain that status is inevitable and it is always an achievement when we do. That doesn't mean that we can't punch even higher above our weight at times and maybe win a trophy or finish high in the league but that can rarely be the norm. Some of us remember where we have come from. 

Exactly this. There are clubs that are arguably 'bigger' than us, Sheff Weds, Forest, Derby, Sunderland etc languishing in the lower leagues who would give anything to be in our shoes. Being in and staying in the top flight is success in my book, anything beyond that is a bonus.

[nta786]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

Is it sport when you start every season where the only aim is to scramble enough points together in a competition you have no chance of winning? Where all the odds are stacked hugely in the favour of the clubs with the most money and where most of the owners of clubs are only interested in how much profit they can make? You have your reasons for watching football and to be fair these days going to a match for me is either going to my local league two club as my son is in their academy or going to watch saints to catch up with some old friends with a day out on the beers. For most people i know quite often the football, despite being what brought us together, was often the worst part of the day, as for a club like Saints we have little chance of being competitive in this so called sport. 

No I completely agree with you and without a salary/transfer cap it's unfortunately the way it'll always go. 

It does ruin my weekend just as much as anyone on here when we lose but unfortunately I am too vested now into Saints to suddenly stop watching or hating the game though.

Some might say football died in 1992 but 29 years later my weekends still revolve around it... and I'll maintain that I would prefer to be in the Premier League than the Championship, it means we're a hell of a lot better than more than 72 other clubs

[Lighthouse]

I watch Saints in the hope of being entertained by games of football, with a vested interest in my local club. If results tables and rankings are what excite you, I would suggest you need to follow a different team.

[TWar]

29 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I watch Saints in the hope of being entertained by games of football, with a vested interest in my local club. If results tables and rankings are what excite you, I would suggest you need to follow a different team.

Same here, and games are markedly more enjoyable to me in the premier league than they were in the championship and league one.

[Turkish]

8 minutes ago, TWar said:

Same here, and games are markedly more enjoyable to me in the premier league than they were in the championship and league one.

Really?!!! The championship and league one were three of the most enjoyable seasons in 38 years of following Saints.

I guess not everyone goes just to watch Saints

[TWar]

9 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Really?!!! The championship and league one were three of the most enjoyable seasons in 38 years of following Saints.

I guess not everyone goes just to watch Saints

I can't remember if its you I had this conversation with before but assuming it isn't I like good football. Give me my team playing fast free flowing football at the highest level against the best players in the world over my team banging out results playing hoofball against Accrington Stanley every time, even if the latter yields more wins and cheaper tickets.

Edited 30 September, 2021 by TWar

[Manuel]

They did an experiment with rats.  They put two in a cage together, one rat was larger than the other.  The rats used to wrestle with each other, playing, like a lot of mammals do.  The scientists recorded that if the bigger rat didn't let the smaller one win 30% of the time, the smaller one wouldn't play anymore.  

This is kind of how I feel about Saints.  I'm not expecting to win every game but there has to be some hope.  Long losing streaks are tough to deal with.

[Turkish]

12 minutes ago, TWar said:

I can't remember if its you I had this conversation with before but assuming it isn't I like good football. Give me my team playing fast free flowing football at the highest level against the best players in the world over my team banging out results playing hoofball against Accrington Stanley every time, even if the latter yields more wins and cheaper tickets.

 when was this? Guess you've also forgotten about some of the football we played in league one and the championship, we were a joy to watch at times.

Edited 30 September, 2021 by Turkish

[TWar]

7 minutes ago, Turkish said:

 when was this? Guess you've also forgotten about some of the football we played in league one and the championship, we were a joy to watch at times.

We played lovely football under Poch and Koeman, and to be honest I think we played some really nice stuff under Ralph up until about January this year.

[The Left Back]

20 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Really?!!! The championship and league one were three of the most enjoyable seasons in 38 years of following Saints.

I guess not everyone goes just to watch Saints

 

11 minutes ago, TWar said:

I can't remember if its you I had this conversation with before but assuming it isn't I like good football. Give me my team playing fast free flowing football at the highest level against the best players in the world over my team banging out results playing hoofball against Accrington Stanley every time, even if the latter yields more wins and cheaper tickets.

I am finding I manage to agree (and disagree) with you both here.  I absolutely loved the rise through league one and championship, back to back promotions, lots of games, loads of wins, Saturday 3pm kick-offs (having said that I didn't enjoy the 4 seasons in the championship on the way down).  But the feeling of beating the big boys on the biggest stage is an amazing feeling - Liverpool 4-1 in 89, Man U several times in the 90s, as well as some of the recent ones. (although losing at home to teams we expect/need to beat, only winning 7-10 games all season, fixtures shovelled all over the weekend are things I hate about being at this level).

For me it all comes down to the experience of watching the team I Iove.  I can watch anyone play football, the game has a rhythm that is addictive and I enjoy any standard.  When it is played by the club I've been brainwashed into loving it just matters in a way that I can't explain to anyone who doesn't feel the same.

[TWar]

4 minutes ago, The Left Back said:

 

I am finding I manage to agree (and disagree) with you both here.  I absolutely loved the rise through league one and championship, back to back promotions, lots of games, loads of wins, Saturday 3pm kick-offs (having said that I didn't enjoy the 4 seasons in the championship on the way down).  But the feeling of beating the big boys on the biggest stage is an amazing feeling - Liverpool 4-1 in 89, Man U several times in the 90s, as well as some of the recent ones. (although losing at home to teams we expect/need to beat, only winning 7-10 games all season, fixtures shovelled all over the weekend are things I hate about being at this level).

For me it all comes down to the experience of watching the team I Iove.  I can watch anyone play football, the game has a rhythm that is addictive and I enjoy any standard.  When it is played by the club I've been brainwashed into loving it just matters in a way that I can't explain to anyone who doesn't feel the same.

Exactly! I love watching the highest quality football on the biggest stage in the world, I love watching saints who have been my team my whole life, being able to do both those things at the same time is incredible. Watching saints play low level games against League one and championship sides is still a good time and I like a win as much as the next guy but I like to see us be the best we can be.

Edited 30 September, 2021 by TWar

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

We played lovely football under Poch and Koeman, and to be honest I think we played some really nice stuff under Ralph up until about January this year.

We did, but there is also a bit of rose tinted glasses going on here. I remember lots of moaning about Pochetino having no plan B, not being able to beat a team when they score first. Funnily enough despite the much lauded pressing game we played under him i dont remember the players being knackered by half time so we were crap in the second half, something that is put down as the reason for our second half peformances.

We also played so good stuff under Koeman, the last ten games or so in our 6th placed finish were some of the best of seen. But there were also times when we were awful, a 10 games poor run and some fans were calling for his head.

Since then aside for a period last year we've been pretty crap. So basically what your saying is that in the last 5 years we've had about 6 months of fast attacking football. 

[SaintZamboni]

On 29/09/2021 at 06:56, Turkish said:

Is that the aim then? Survival is sucess?

For about 13/20 of the league it is. This isn’t a competition to see who wins anymore.

There’ll be teams who have more ups and some more downs but not being 18,19 or 20 means financial solvency for longer.

As for the OP, the goals being scored by Beattie et al were hardly from a time when we were tearing it up! Most of them are from seasons like this, bang average with some wins and goals scattered about.

[TWar]

Just now, Turkish said:

We did, but there is also a bit of rose tinted glasses going on here. I remember lots of moaning about Pochetino having no plan B, not being able to beat a team when they score first. Funnily enough despite the much lauded pressing game we played under him i dont remember the players being knackered by half time so we were crap in the second half, something that is put down as the reason for our second half peformances.

We also played so good stuff under Koeman, the last ten games or so in our 6th placed finish were some of the best of seen. But there were also times when we were awful, a 10 games poor run and some fans were calling for his head.

Since then aside for a period last year we've been pretty crap. So basically what your saying is that in the last 5 years we've had about 6 months of fast attacking football. 

Different people, I thought that was a silly criticism at the time, the same way I think it's not a good criticism of Ralph now. They both did have a plan B but we don't have the spending power to have a deep bench of gamechangers and probably never will.

Teams will always have bad runs, can't always be joy, but that makes the good times better imo. Would rather that than winning all the time because we are only pitted against other low quality sides.

No that's not what I'm saying, that's what you are saying. I think we looked excellent for a large chunk of Ralph's reign, looked great under Poch most of the time, and looked great under Koeman most of the time. 6 months is only you saying if we aren't good every game then it doesn't count.

[Turkish]

19 minutes ago, SaintZamboni said:

For about 13/20 of the league it is. This isn’t a competition to see who wins anymore.

There’ll be teams who have more ups and some more downs but not being 18,19 or 20 means financial solvency for longer.

As for the OP, the goals being scored by Beattie et al were hardly from a time when we were tearing it up! Most of them are from seasons like this, bang average with some wins and goals scattered about.

I rest my case. It isn’t sport when it because all about money

[Turkish]

17 minutes ago, TWar said:

Different people, I thought that was a silly criticism at the time, the same way I think it's not a good criticism of Ralph now. They both did have a plan B but we don't have the spending power to have a deep bench of gamechangers and probably never will.

Teams will always have bad runs, can't always be joy, but that makes the good times better imo. Would rather that than winning all the time because we are only pitted against other low quality sides.

No that's not what I'm saying, that's what you are saying. I think we looked excellent for a large chunk of Ralph's reign, looked great under Poch most of the time, and looked great under Koeman most of the time. 6 months is only you saying if we aren't good every game then it doesn't count.

No I said in the last 5 years we’ve been good for about 6 months. The rest of the time it’s not exactly been the watching fast free flowing football you’re claiming it is 

[The Left Back]

4 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I rest my case. It isn’t sport when it because all about money

I love the corinthian sentiment and I agree with the spirit of it, but I think the relationship between sport and money is much more complex than that. And to say if it's all about money it isn't sport pretty much wipes out the concept of professionalism.