Harry_SFC Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Russell Martin has done a really good job since we lost those 4 games in a row but surely he has to sack off this obsession with shoehorning Stephens into the side. The back 4 has been totally settled and we were keeping clean sheets for fun. Why change it? 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gammon cheeks Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Stephens is ok as a back up centre back but not really good enough to start in my opinion. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 I’m confused that he shoe horns Stephens in the side and pushes KWP up, when he could have done that ages ago with Bree or Manning. I much prefer KWP at RB. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barsiem Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 It may just be squad rotation. 4 games in ten days is a lot! But yeah not working brilliantly so hopefully we will be back to normal now the scheduling is a bit easier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Just now, Barsiem said: It may just be squad rotation. 4 games in ten days is a lot! But yeah not working brilliantly so hopefully we will be back to normal now the scheduling is a bit easier Good shout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 4 minutes ago, Barsiem said: It may just be squad rotation. 4 games in ten days is a lot! But yeah not working brilliantly so hopefully we will be back to normal now the scheduling is a bit easier Hopefully KWP will be given a long overdue rest for the cup game Saturday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gio1saints Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 He will probably start v Walsall but in what position is anyone’s guess. indefence of the shoehorning in argument you need only look at how many matches weve lost in this period.. It’s entirely possible that Saints were getting predictable and the JS thing - and it’s corollary - which is KWP playing right wing -has kept opposing managers who thought they could anticipate how we will play, guessing. if so credit for being able to mix up the players and system even within the same tactical framework - but the logic is too deep and advanced for me I’m afraid as I still prefer KWP at RB as do most in the forum it seems - but two goals conceded in 5 frames speaks for itself.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintoaks Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 I do agree with the OP and thought the same when the team came out, we were really good first half (and most of the game) yesterday apart from obviously scoring ! Norwich did score with us playing 4 at the back and I also think KWP looks better going forward at fullback. Good to have in your armoury though when matching up other sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 The bloke is a liability. Get the armband off him and get rid. Martin's judgement of people is very patchy and he has got this one badly wrong. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 20 hours ago, Barsiem said: It may just be squad rotation. 4 games in ten days is a lot! But yeah not working brilliantly so hopefully we will be back to normal now the scheduling is a bit easier Bloody hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Louis Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 He's OK at this level, and is decent enough backup, especially if Holgate leaves. But he is clearly behind Bednarek (50+ International Caps) and Harwood-Bellis (England U21 Captain, clearly a star of the future), so I hope he doesnt end up with more game time than he merits. I do agree that by giving him the captaincy and convincing him to stay, it's left a slightly annoying/unexpected dilemma for Martin to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 5 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said: The bloke is a liability. Get the armband off him and get rid. Martin's judgement of people is very patchy and he has got this one badly wrong. Martins managerial style is very obviously "one of the lads". He seems to have a tendency to favour the players who seem from a similar "cheeky chappy", well groomed, metrosexual blend. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry_SFC Posted January 2 Author Share Posted January 2 4 hours ago, St Louis said: He's OK at this level, and is decent enough backup, especially if Holgate leaves. But he is clearly behind Bednarek (50+ International Caps) and Harwood-Bellis (England U21 Captain, clearly a star of the future), so I hope he doesnt end up with more game time than he merits. I do agree that by giving him the captaincy and convincing him to stay, it's left a slightly annoying/unexpected dilemma for Martin to deal with. Agree and this is how I've always seen Stephens, a decent leader and good back up for us but no more than that. He'd probably be in most starting 11s in this league apart from say the top 5-6 sides. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 5 hours ago, Harry_SFC said: Agree and this is how I've always seen Stephens, a decent leader and good back up for us but no more than that. He'd probably be in most starting 11s in this league apart from say the top 5-6 sides. You could say that of Manning too. Trouble is, you have too many ‘gaffers boys’ in the starting eleven rather than the best players available in the squad eventually the moral will drop and so will the ability to play RM’s gameplan. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErwinK1961 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, Saint Fan CaM said: You could say that of Manning too. Trouble is, you have too many ‘gaffers boys’ in the starting eleven rather than the best players available in the squad eventually the moral will drop and so will the ability to play RM’s gameplan. Who are these “many gaffers boys” that are starting ahead of the “best players”? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Lion Tamer Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Martin has us on an 18 game by picking the "gaffer's boys" rather than the best players. OR I think he wants Stephens' leadership qualities in the team but agree the it isn't working 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltonaggro Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 JS is a decent back up option at CB, but limited anywhere else. I know he is returning from injury but in his absence we developed into a very tight unit, and he looks off the pace and somewhat disruptive. In my view the Bednarek THB partnership, coupled with KWP at fullback are the principle reasons we are on this superb run. I don't think Martin is daft and he's shown he is willing to leave senior players out of the 11 when he see's fit. Hopefully we return to our strongest defensive back four soon - Bree, JB, THB and KWP. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry_SFC Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 6 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said: Martin has us on an 18 game by picking the "gaffer's boys" rather than the best players. OR I think he wants Stephens' leadership qualities in the team but agree the it isn't working Yeah I'm not convinced Stephens is necessarily a "gaffers boy" in that sense. On the other hand, Martin and Manning are clearly quite close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 8 hours ago, ErwinK1961 said: Who are these “many gaffers boys” that are starting ahead of the “best players”? I did actually say “too many” and the inference was IF this was the case. Martin seems to thrive on being buddies with certain individuals and while our results have been impressive, there have been fluctuations. Bringing Manning in over Bree was the start and then finding a way to get Stephens into the mix by displacing KWP from his natural position are examples of his approach which I don’t like. Round pegs, round holes and a balanced team makes for a better performance and over the last two games at least I would argue that we’ve seen a less organised, less composed defence. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 10 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said: Martin has us on an 18 game by picking the "gaffer's boys" rather than the best players. OR I think he wants Stephens' leadership qualities in the team but agree the it isn't working We went on that 18 game unbeaten streak without the supreme leadership of our lord and saviour jack Stephens, not sure it's that vital to get him back in the team. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Wolf Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Rule one of modern football: Club captains are undroppable (unless it's for some sort of gross misconduct) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltonaggro Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 On 03/01/2024 at 15:06, Bad Wolf said: Rule one of modern football: Club captains are undroppable (unless it's for some sort of gross misconduct) That hospital backpass to GB could well qualify. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Funny how some of us suggested at the start of the season that JS was of a lower quality than JB and THB but got thoroughly shot down in flames The armband frankly should never have been passed to him He is.. ok.. but far too many lapses in concentration to be a consistent performer Great back up at this level, but JB/THB would firmly be my partnership 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 7 hours ago, Miltonaggro said: That hospital backpass to GB could well qualify. You mean that bog standard pass that gave Bazunu time to take three touches before he was closed down that showed Stephens had faith in the supposed world class ball playing ability of his keeper that we signed him exclusively for? 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintsFan86 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 6 hours ago, Smirking_Saint said: Funny how some of us suggested at the start of the season that JS was of a lower quality than JB and THB but got thoroughly shot down in flames The armband frankly should never have been passed to him He is.. ok.. but far too many lapses in concentration to be a consistent performer Great back up at this level, but JB/THB would firmly be my partnership I definitely agree with you that Bednarek and THB are our best CBs and shouldn't be dropped. Shame we are shoehorning our captain in just to play him, they he is a damn good organiser. Captaincy should have been given to KWP, imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooney Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 8 hours ago, SaintsFan86 said: Captaincy should have been given to KWP, imo. Too quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltonaggro Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 4 hours ago, rooney said: Too quiet. Yes, think so. I’d probably have given it to Bednarek but maybe that’s coloured by hindsight. To be honest Adam Armstrong has been great as skipper, a veritable Duracell bunny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry_SFC Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 6 hours ago, Miltonaggro said: Yes, think so. I’d probably have given it to Bednarek but maybe that’s coloured by hindsight. To be honest Adam Armstrong has been great as skipper, a veritable Duracell bunny. You say you think KWP is too quiet to be skipper yet Armstrong has been great but seems one of the most quiet players on the pitch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintsFan86 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 I always thought captaincy is best given to a leader. Surely our best player, that performs the best out there week in week out leads by example no? Therefore, no one better for captaincy than KWP. Bednarek deserves a special mention too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Stephens had a hand in the last two late goals we conceded, a sloppy pass to Bazunu and a pass to Manning who dropped Fraser in it with his poor pass, when an easy pass to THB who was wide open was ignored and then his ball watching amongst others let Sargent equalise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry_SFC Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 8 minutes ago, SaintsFan86 said: I always thought captaincy is best given to a leader. Surely our best player, that performs the best out there week in week out leads by example no? Therefore, no one better for captaincy than KWP. Bednarek deserves a special mention too. I think KWP said in an interview he really wants to be a captain at some point. I'd imagine he's one of the most respected players in the dressing room. Bednarek would be a different type of captain but both good shouts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintsFan86 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 16 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said: I think KWP said in an interview he really wants to be a captain at some point. I'd imagine he's one of the most respected players in the dressing room. Bednarek would be a different type of captain but both good shouts. At present time both arguably alot better candidates for captaincy than Arma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 16 minutes ago, SaintsFan86 said: At present time both arguably alot better candidates for captaincy than Arma. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gio1saints Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 AA is Southampton’s most successful captain in our entire history. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 On 05/01/2024 at 19:26, gio1saints said: AA is Southampton’s most successful captain in our entire history. Rodrigues wants a word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 He is fucking useless 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Woeful. We all know it too. his injury was a blessing 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 30 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said: He is fucking useless Apparently he isn’t cos the rose coloured glasses brigade love him. His display today summed up everything I dislike about him, he’s a bloody liability who occasionally has an outbreak of ok…ish I wish RM didn’t have a blind spot about him and his efforts to get him on the pitch at every opportunity really bother me ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfc4prem Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 He wasn't great today. All out of position and meant their attacks and crosses became pretty dangerous. Also, his passing across the back line is sometimes lackadaisical and unnecessary, and puts us in unexpectedly shit scenarios sometimes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t have been on the pitch today had Russ not made him captain. Upset the rhythm of the team considerably Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErwinK1961 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 The only times he’s looked capable in his career has been when he’s played regularly and had a consistent partner. Bringing him on mid game just doesn’t suit him at all, plus coming on mid game for a CB in general can’t be too easy. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but making him captain has turned out to be a poor choice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintant Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 He came on today and got caught up in how good the defence has been during this unbeaten run so was attempting to play passes he shouldn't have been trying and put us under so much pressure. We need far better and the fact that he's our captain is a concern if, as seems to be the case, RM is giving him game time he doesn't merit. He will cost us points unless this is managed well. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Huge clanger from Stephens today, absolute shocker, although in the end he was the one who finally cleared the danger. Was on the pitch today cos RM protected Taylor who was on a yellow. We were already looking shaky before Stephens came on, we did our old trick of retreating into our cocky, defensive, knock it around at the back shell, though to be fair credit to Swansea who changed things very effectively at half time after being completely and utterly outclassed in the first half. I'm not a fan of Stephens replacing Taylor, because we lose so much when Taylor goes, particularly going forward, again today his long or lofted passes across or over the defenders are quite brilliant. Jan doesn't have that to the same extent so Stephens on for Bedders isn't such a problem. Still for you Jack haters, he hasn't played in a losing team so far this season, so even an almighty clanger like today actually makes no difference, and remember we did concede while Taylor/Jan were in the centre (though it was offside and handball). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 51 minutes ago, beatlesaint said: Apparently he isn’t cos the rose coloured glasses brigade love him. His display today summed up everything I dislike about him, he’s a bloody liability who occasionally has an outbreak of ok…ish I wish RM didn’t have a blind spot about him and his efforts to get him on the pitch at every opportunity really bother me ! You do understand he came on asTHB was booked earlier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 7 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said: You do understand he came on asTHB was booked earlier? That’s no reason in itself to sub a player. Fck me players on a yellow can be disciplined to not get another. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarehamSaintJames Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 58 minutes ago, sfc4prem said: He wasn't great today. All out of position and meant their attacks and crosses became pretty dangerous. Also, his passing across the back line is sometimes lackadaisical and unnecessary, and puts us in unexpectedly shit scenarios sometimes. Wasn’t great is an understatement. He was piss poor, and that’s being generous. The only good thing he did was lump the ball clear from an impending Swansea smash in - which all began because of his mistake. I’m sure he’ll start next week, but realistically he hasn’t played well when coming on as a sub. The only game he did ok was Blackburn at home, and we were 2-0 up and playing against a most defensive ten men formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee On Solent Saint Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 1 minute ago, whelk said: That’s no reason in itself to sub a player. Fck me players on a yellow can be disciplined to not get another. Absolutely. Its bollocks to suggest that's why THB was hooked. Only reason was to get Stephens on the pitch. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Block41 Saint Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 He's always had that type of error in his locker. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpsaint Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Sorry guys you’re not allowed to criticise Stephens. Apparently you’re not a real fan if you don’t blindly celebrate the 21 game unbeaten run but instead make constructive criticisms about the shoehorning of a player into a settled team. Thats what I’ve been told anyway. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarehamSaintJames Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 I’m sure THB was hooked because of the yellow but to do it so early, and given that it’s a cup game next week, which I doubt THB would’ve featured in anyway, makes it a tad bizarre. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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