Will Still

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, ErwinK1961 said:

What does that even mean?

It means that when I'm not getting the result I want on football manager I frequently stick a load of strikers on near the end and go all out attack. Stills tactics so far have reminded me of that.

[trousers]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

It means that when I'm not getting the result I want on football manager I frequently stick a load of strikers on near the end and go all out attack. Stills tactics so far have reminded me of that.

I prefer it to the Russell Martin approach of chucking on a load of defenders to protect the draw...

(Trousers, you're obsessed man, let it go FFS!)

Edited Sunday at 09:59 by trousers

[Smirking_Saint]

1 hour ago, gio1saints said:

McKenna best manager in the universe McKenna that we all wish we had here? Mckenna next manager of Man Utd? Surely not mans a genius. 😁

Sometimes temporary results and performances can obscure truths - highly respected goalie Johanssen gifting WBA victory yesterday and McKenna still can’t buy a win. It’s temporary. Both are still very good - as is Still and most his team - patience! .😂😇

This point last year Burnley and Leeds had 7 and 8 points respectively

We havn’t had a disastrous start but there’s obviously a hangover/lack of consistent team

If he carries on with 5 atb Ill be concerned, but Im hopeful with our new signings in and an international break to work on things we can kick on

[ErwinK1961]

18 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

It means that when I'm not getting the result I want on football manager I frequently stick a load of strikers on near the end and go all out attack. Stills tactics so far have reminded me of that.

You can’t have been very good at FM then.. 😉

In all seriousness though, when you’re looking for something to change and go for the win, you look to put your most attacking players on. At the moment, the options on the bench are mainly strikers - he would have had Robinson to bring on if Downes hadn’t pulled out and he bought on Matsuki. If we get a LW in that will be another option.

If he still lumps on strikers when we’ve got a bench full of other options then I’ll be concerned.

[for_heaven's_Saint]

I’m just holding out hope that, from the Pompey game onwards, we will see a completely different set up with 4 at the back and much more control of games and chance creation. If that happens I can forget about this month where he’s had to be more ‘pragmatic’. If it doesn’t or we continue to look so disjointed I’ll be a bit worried. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

15 hours ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

Adam Blackmore described his straight talking as a breath of fresh air.

 

Fuck me, there’s a surprise. Blackmore sucking up to the manager. 
 

I don’t give a shiny shite what a manager sounds like at a “presser”, too many nods do. Results are the be all & end all of it, and they’ve been bang average so far.

You can’t even point to games where we’ve played well & missed chances or unlucky situations have cost us. On balance, I’d say the opposite, we couldn’t really complain if we had one or two points less. Tactically it looks a bit of a mess to me, you can’t really see what he’s trying to do. It’s not like you’re sat there thinking “when this clicks, we’ll be fine”, for the most part we look disjointed. The most worrying aspect is we still can’t defend, he’s had all summer with and it still looks a mess. The excuse of not having the team fully formed until after the window, has some merit when discussing the forwards, but not defensively. Downes, Charles, THB, Captain Jack, Ronnie E, Wood, Manning, Taylor have all been there from day one, yet we look unorganised and under coached in that important aspect of the game. It’s the unglamorous side of coaching, boring and repetitive, but vital. Nothing I’ve seen so far tells me this blokes capable of doing it well.

Edited Sunday at 10:28 by Lord Duckhunter

[Whitey Grandad]

55 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

1 season and 4 league games at a push. Not years. 

But okay so what drastic 1 player swap gets a drastic improvement do you think? You take out one of the CB’s and stick in who and where that suddenly makes everything better? 

This goes back a lot further. Not since Ralph left have we had a solid shape.

Take out a CB (i.e. Stephens) and just put someone in the middle who can harry and tackle.

[Whitey Grandad]

3 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Fuck me, there’s a surprise. Blackmore sucking up to the manager. 
 

I don’t give a shiny shite what a manager sounds like at a “presser”, too many nods do. Results are the be all & end all of it, and they’ve been bang average so far.

You can’t even point to games where we’ve played well & missed chances or unlucky situations have cost us. On balance, I’d say the opposite, we couldn’t really complain if we had one or two points less. Tactically it looks a bit of a mess to me, you can’t really see what he’s trying to do. It’s not like you’re sat there thinking “when this clicks, we’ll be fine”, for the most part we look disjointed. The most worrying aspect is we still can’t defend, he’s had all summer with and it still looks a mess. The excuse of not having the team fully formed until after the window, has some merit when discussing the forwards, but not defensively. Downes, Charles, THB, Captain Jack, Ronnie E, Wood, Manning, Taylor have all been there from day one, yet we look unorganised and under coached in that important aspect of the game. It’s the unglamorous side of coaching, boring and repetitive, but vital. Nothing I’ve seen so far tells me this blokes capable of doing it well.

Yep. No shape or purpose.

[miserableoldgit]

We have lost one game out of six. Transfer window still open and there has been/is a great turn over of players taking place. WS probably still doesn't know what his squad is going to be until tomorrow evening. A slight whiff of over-reaction on here maybe?

[gio1saints]

1 hour ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

I also don't accept his reason that he's waiting for the right moment to change. Maybe it's his way of fitting Jack Stephens in to the team, but I agree, for someone who has a reputation for adapting to circumstances (which doesn't just mean throwing on all your forwards when you're 1-0 down), he seems pretty set in his way playing 5 at the back the whole time.

Get your point totally valid. My explanation of why three CB’s is that Still worked out rather quickly our full backs cannot defend.
 

They all fancy themselves as wingbacks.

On the other hand we have 4/5 CB’s who know what there job is. Defend . Fairly easy decision to play 3 of them when the rest of the squad is still in transit I’d say. He may/ will change after the window IF we get a better defensive left back - though if Manning keeps scoring could be hard…

[Appy]

11 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

We have lost one game out of six. Transfer window still open and there has been/is a great turn over of players taking place. WS probably still doesn't know what his squad is going to be until tomorrow evening. A slight whiff of over-reaction on here maybe?

Yep, it’s so boring that as soon as we have 1 or 2 shaky results the narrative is “bin off the manager”. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Just now, Appy said:

Yep, it’s so boring that as soon as we have 1 or 2 shaky results the narrative is “bin off the manager”. 

Who has said bin him off, how many people, two maybe, three? 

[hypochondriac]

37 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

You can’t have been very good at FM then.. 😉

In all seriousness though, when you’re looking for something to change and go for the win, you look to put your most attacking players on. At the moment, the options on the bench are mainly strikers - he would have had Robinson to bring on if Downes hadn’t pulled out and he bought on Matsuki. If we get a LW in that will be another option.

If he still lumps on strikers when we’ve got a bench full of other options then I’ll be concerned.

I don't entirely disagree but my issue is starting with a formation that doesn't work and the throwing on all our strikers at the end. I like will still and want hi to do well I just find that a bit bizarre.

[Smirking_Saint]

My issue with 3 backs is its always easy to believe that its more defensively sound, and from experience back when I coached and just by watching the game its arguably the opposite

2 CB systems are easier because you know exactly what your responsibilities are, where as 3 CB systems introduces the ‘option’ to leave it to your CB partner(s)

I also think in the way we play, it overloads the two CMs because the distances between the front line and defensive line is too vast, that means the wide CBs have to step out (and also step into the half spaces vacated by WBs) so it makes it all a bit messy on the transition

My main complaint remains that we lose midfield battles too often and are open to break aways too much without seeing an overall dominance down the flanks.. so I question if risk is worth rewards ?

Anyway… just some things Ive been thinking a while.. I do think we have the quality to be a dominant force in the division, just need some tweaks

[Appy]

2 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Who has said bin him off, how many people, two maybe, three? 

Isn’t that too many? After one defeat? 

[CB Fry]

2 minutes ago, Appy said:

Yep, it’s so boring that as soon as we have 1 or 2 shaky results the narrative is “bin off the manager”. 

There are ten times more people absolutely desperate to do their holier-than-thou routine than there is saying "bin the manager".

 

[miserableoldgit]

2 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Who has said bin him off, how many people, two maybe, three? 

Admittedly maybe a handleful have said "bin him off", but many more have already expressed extreme doubt as to whether he is the right person to take us forward. Did you see the Norwich match thread? A lot of nasty stuff on there (before the result) including labelling him the "Ginger Juric".....

[Fabrice29]

28 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

This goes back a lot further. Not since Ralph left have we had a solid shape.

Take out a CB (i.e. Stephens) and just put someone in the middle who can harry and tackle.

We're playing Charles, Downes and an attacking midfielder now (Fernandes and now Azaz). So you are adding someone in the middle (this mystery player who can harry and tackle). Are you playing a diamond and therefore no wide players? 

I'm genuinely intrigued by what people mean when they say "change formation" and "add someone in the middle" because all I see is suggestions we should be playing 4231 which coincidently would leave us with a midfield of Charles, Downes and an attacking midfielder again. 

[Appy]

8 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

There are ten times more people absolutely desperate to do their holier-than-thou routine than there is saying "bin the manager".

 

I’m not remotely in either camp yet, but that’s because it’s been four bloody games, football doesn’t have to be as binary as “he’s amazing” or “get him gone”. 

[egg]

Just now, Fabrice29 said:

We're playing Charles, Downes and an attacking midfielder now (Fernandes and now Azaz). So you are adding someone in the middle (this mystery player who can harry and tackle). Are you playing a diamond and therefore no wide players? 

I'm genuinely intrigued by what people mean when they say "change formation" and "add someone in the middle" because all I see is suggestions we should be playing 4231 which coincidently would leave us with a midfield of Charles, Downes and an attacking midfielder again. 

I think the point is that we need to strengthen in midfield, and the sacrifice has to be a CB. The issue is as much personnel as formation for me, in that we don't have the personnel to play an effective formation. 

We are definitely lacking a proper DM, that's obvious. Get one in and we can play 4231 with one of the two being the defensive one. 

That system gives us a solid midfield, a back 4, and wide men. The under 21's are playing that shape and doubtless Still wants the first team to as well. 

[ErwinK1961]

12 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I don't entirely disagree but my issue is starting with a formation that doesn't work and the throwing on all our strikers at the end. I like will still and want hi to do well I just find that a bit bizarre.

Fair enough Hypo. I think let’s see what he does when the squad is complete - if he carries on with 5 atb then he won’t last long.

[Smirking_Saint]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

I think the point is that we need to strengthen in midfield, and the sacrifice has to be a CB. The issue is as much personnel as formation for me, in that we don't have the personnel to play an effective formation. 

We are definitely lacking a proper DM, that's obvious. Get one in and we can play 4231 with one of the two being the defensive one. 

That system gives us a solid midfield, a back 4, and wide men. The under 21's are playing that shape and doubtless Still wants the first team to as well. 

I think if we play 4231 where the lines should be a bit more compressed then it should allow one of Downes or Charles (preferably Downes) to operate more as a 6 and the other an 8

At the moment it feels like they’re both having to be a sort of 6/8 hybrid

FWIW in that case we don’t ‘need’ a more defensive CM brought in, they just need cleaner definition of their roles

Edited Sunday at 11:11 by Smirking_Saint

[hypochondriac]

18 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

We're playing Charles, Downes and an attacking midfielder now (Fernandes and now Azaz). So you are adding someone in the middle (this mystery player who can harry and tackle). Are you playing a diamond and therefore no wide players? 

I'm genuinely intrigued by what people mean when they say "change formation" and "add someone in the middle" because all I see is suggestions we should be playing 4231 which coincidently would leave us with a midfield of Charles, Downes and an attacking midfielder again. 

I think you're going to have to drop one of Downes or Charles (probably Downes ) to accommodate someone new.

[Harry_SFC]

13 minutes ago, Appy said:

I’m not remotely in either camp yet, but that’s because it’s been four bloody games, football doesn’t have to be as binary as “he’s amazing” or “get him gone”. 

Yep. I think most sensible fans would say that it hasn't been the greatest start but it's understandable as to why we've struggled a bit so far and to start judging him once the window has closed. 

[SambaMaverick]

He gets a solid 2/10 for me so far but it's only fair to give him 5 games after the transfer window shuts. Our business has been a mess and I'm still not happy with the lack of width in our squad.

[saint michael]

If you are still what combination gives us a secure defence. I cant see any combination that gives me confidence. Yes I know we kept a clean sheet against Norwich but to be good that needs to become the norm not the exception 

remember Strachan coming in at difficult time and made us fit and difficult to beat as a priority. We were almost bankers at winning 1  0 at some point. Having to score 3 to win a game is not going to take us anywhere good

Edited Sunday at 12:13 by saint michael

[Osvaldorama]

Almost no one is saying bin him off. 
 

Just saying he’s been very unimpressive so far and we don’t look like a good team. That’s fair, I think. Hopefully things will change soon. 

[hypochondriac]

31 minutes ago, saint michael said:

If you are still what combination gives us a secure defence. I cant see any combination that gives me confidence. Yes I know we kept a clean sheet against Norwich but to be good that needs to become the norm not the exception 

remember Strachan coming in at difficult time and made us fit and difficult to beat as a priority. We were almost bankers at winning 1  0 at some point. Having to score 3 to win a game is not going to take us anywhere good

Good post. This is exactly what will needs to do and what I thought he would be doing. Once the new players are in and settled I expect to see a change in formation straight away as a minimim.

[benjii]

43 minutes ago, saint michael said:

If you are still what combination gives us a secure defence. I cant see any combination that gives me confidence. Yes I know we kept a clean sheet against Norwich but to be good that needs to become the norm not the exception 

remember Strachan coming in at difficult time and made us fit and difficult to beat as a priority. We were almost bankers at winning 1  0 at some point. Having to score 3 to win a game is not going to take us anywhere good

I don't get this. We've got a right back and a left back with plenty of Prem experience. 

Likewise Stephens, for his faults. 

We've got THB, Quarshie, Edwards, Wood.

We've got Charles and Downes.

If, after all that, we can't put a team on the pitch that can defend competently then you have to wonder WTF we do in training.

Who do people think the other Champ teams have at the back? A team of Maldinis?

[Fabrice29]

1 hour ago, egg said:

I think the point is that we need to strengthen in midfield, and the sacrifice has to be a CB. The issue is as much personnel as formation for me, in that we don't have the personnel to play an effective formation. 

We are definitely lacking a proper DM, that's obvious. Get one in and we can play 4231 with one of the two being the defensive one. 

That system gives us a solid midfield, a back 4, and wide men. The under 21's are playing that shape and doubtless Still wants the first team to as well. 

 

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

I think you're going to have to drop one of Downes or Charles (probably Downes ) to accommodate someone new.

Think you'd struggle to find a better two than Charles and Downes in the league. We've also just signed Jander to play in there. We absolutely do not need another central midfielder unless Smallbone, Aribo and Matsuki are leaving. If you cant control games the way you want to with those options in this league then thats on coaching, not formation or personnel. 

Anyway, a change of formation doesn't rely on a new CM. We'll end up playing 4231 but only once the wide player we've signed is available.

[hypochondriac]

Just now, Fabrice29 said:

 

Think you'd struggle to find a better two than Charles and Downes in the league. We've also just signed Jander to play in there. We absolutely do not need another central midfielder unless Smallbone, Aribo and Matsuki are leaving. If you cant control games the way you want to with those options in this league then thats on coaching, not formation or personnel. 

Anyway, a change of formation doesn't rely on a new CM. We'll end up playing 4231 but only once the wide player we've signed is available.

I think that's up for debate. Both are good players but the main issue is how they operate as a pair and I'm yet to be convinced that they can play together to a high level.

[Fabrice29]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

I think that's up for debate. Both are good players but the main issue is how they operate as a pair and I'm yet to be convinced that they can play together to a high level.

Name 3 pairs better than them on paper. Again, if they cant operate as a pair (Which I personally dont believe), thats on coaching.

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Name 3 pairs better than them on paper. Again, if they cant operate as a pair (Which I personally dont believe), thats on coaching.

That's an odd way of looking at it. If they both do so.ilar jobs the  what we lack is a player available who can do something else that is required in centre midfield. That's not about coaching it's about the abilities of the pair of them.

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

That's an odd way of looking at it. If they both do so.ilar jobs the  what we lack is a player available who can do something else that is required in centre midfield. That's not about coaching it's about the abilities of the pair of them.

Bit like the old school England debate of Lampard & Gerrard.

[Fabrice29]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

That's an odd way of looking at it. If they both do so.ilar jobs the  what we lack is a player available who can do something else that is required in centre midfield. That's not about coaching it's about the abilities of the pair of them.

Okay and we've just signed a guy to presumably be that something else. We do not have a lack of options in there.

[hypochondriac]

12 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Okay and we've just signed a guy to presumably be that something else. We do not have a lack of options in there.

Right so as I said, we will probably end up having to drop one of them to accommodate him.

[danjosaint]

5 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

We're playing Charles, Downes and an attacking midfielder now (Fernandes and now Azaz). So you are adding someone in the middle 

I'm genuinely intrigued by what people mean when they say "change formation" and "add someone in the middle" because all I see is suggestions we should be playing 4231 which coincidently would leave us with a midfield of Charles, Downes and an attacking midfielder again. 

I dont really understand what you mean?  There are effectively 5 spots for mf in a 4231 not just 3 like you mentioned, Azaz would probably play the 10 with Fraser/Robinson and Fellows/AA either side. Then Charles/Downes or Jander in the 2 cdm roles although only 1 will have to sit, then back 4 of Mads/THB/Quarshie/Taylor 

(Quarshie only there for pace as quite a slow backline)

[Patches O Houlihan]

8 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Fuck me, there’s a surprise. Blackmore sucking up to the manager. 
 

I don’t give a shiny shite what a manager sounds like at a “presser”, too many nods do. Results are the be all & end all of it, and they’ve been bang average so far.

You can’t even point to games where we’ve played well & missed chances or unlucky situations have cost us. On balance, I’d say the opposite, we couldn’t really complain if we had one or two points less. Tactically it looks a bit of a mess to me, you can’t really see what he’s trying to do. It’s not like you’re sat there thinking “when this clicks, we’ll be fine”, for the most part we look disjointed. The most worrying aspect is we still can’t defend, he’s had all summer with and it still looks a mess. The excuse of not having the team fully formed until after the window, has some merit when discussing the forwards, but not defensively. Downes, Charles, THB, Captain Jack, Ronnie E, Wood, Manning, Taylor have all been there from day one, yet we look unorganised and under coached in that important aspect of the game. It’s the unglamorous side of coaching, boring and repetitive, but vital. Nothing I’ve seen so far tells me this blokes capable of doing it well.

You clearly do otherwise you wouldn't have posted about it.

Maybe the fact that he'll have a much better starting 11 to choose from by the end of tomorrow, might enable him to get the team to impress you. But to be honest I think you just like to be argumentative and critical to make yourself feel better.

Knock yourself out  

Edited Sunday at 18:57 by Patches O Houlihan

[Greedyfly]

14 hours ago, trousers said:

After 14 games in the Championship last time around we were 15 points behind Leicester and 11 points behind Ipswich, so still plenty of time for things to get a bad as they were under Russell Martin in the initial stages of the season...

 

See I can absolutely get behind this optimism, I want him to do well but we also went on a bit of a generational run to make that gap up.  We did also start better under RM - BTW I do not want that bellend back either, this isn't what I am saying.

 

Quote

Quote

14 hours ago, gio1saints said:

Appears to have learned nothing is a bit harsh. 

Do you not think losing our FOUR best players : Ramsdale, Dibling, Fernandes and KWP plus arguably our best CB in Jan Bednarek, best winger in Kameldeen and most obvious target  man in TP would have given him plenty homework in recent weeks?

Every few days he’s had to cobble together a team- and tactics - accordingly to whoever he’s got available( or wants to be available, or who hasn’t developed a niggle..) It’s more fire fighting than squad development at this point. 

You are prepared to give him low marks for the performances delivered from that ill fitting jigsaw of a squad. Fair enough I agree. Think the cobbled together teams could have done better. Could have done worse too. 

But to infer he’s learned nothing is a stretch. I think he’s already learned plenty about what his players can and cannot do / and who he can rely on. 
 

One example is who he has excluded from match day squads (like BBD !) who he realises wants to give 100% (Ryan Fraser) - and how to elicit it - Who has recognised he must give immediate starting opportunity to (Jay and Mads) and who he should drop  (like Armstrong ) to see if it works.
 

Lastly for the first time as a Saints manager in recent history - he’s publicly said to our not scoring forwards that, essentially, if they want to play as a forward next week they  must score or they will be replaced. The instant response to Archer hearing that was he scored yesterday. I’d say he taught Cam a good lesson myself. 

Some of that he learned some he already had. But the bloke is certainly not standing still learning nowt. Sorry for the pun! 😇

 

 

Maybe it is - fair enough, but I don't think he's learned as much as he should've though. And I absolutely cannot abide this whinging (hyperbole a bit here) that he can't play anything other than 5 at the back because he doesn't have the personnel - you had preseason to figure that out - that's on you buddy.  KWP - we had adequate backup for that position.  Dibling - potential but not the finished article or guaranteed starter, Fernandes played every game except Watford.  You're not being serious about Sulemana though, are you? 

 

I think his exclusions have been good agreed, however I would have been excluding Stephens from that list too even with hindsight in that he's actually turned out to be our best defenders so far.

 

What I cannot get behind the most though is this chucking 4 games away (as I said on another thread) in the name of belligerence.  We have not played well in a single same so far and we go into an absolute shitter of a fixture with no momentum now. 

 

Edited Sunday at 23:15 by Greedyfly

[Colinjb]

It would seem that Will has run the rule over the squad and deemed many of our former players as not being worthy of the task.

And, the board has backed him. 

I do not expect immediate success, but I do expect improvement over the next ten games. Then, it's on Still if we are not competitive.  

[Turkish]

5 hours ago, Colinjb said:

It would seem that Will has run the rule over the squad and deemed many of our former players as not being worthy of the task.

And, the board has backed him. 

I do not expect immediate success, but I do expect improvement over the next ten games. Then, it's on Still if we are not competitive.  

Cant fault his judgement of our current players. Let’s see what it’s like of the incomings. 
 

he inherited an absolute shit show, by the time the window SLAMS SHUT there will hopefully only be 3-4 or so left of last seasons squad making the match day team 

Edited 22 hours ago by Turkish

[hypochondriac]

3 hours ago, Turkish said:

Cant fault his judgement of our current players. Let’s see what it’s like of the incomings. 
 

he inherited an absolute shit show, by the time the window SLAMS SHUT there will hopefully only be 3-4 or so left of last seasons squad making the match day team 

We can now actually field an entire team with almost no involvement with last year 

Bazunu 

Mads Quarshie Edwards ellert 

New bloke Charles 

Fellows Azaz Robinson 

Downs

[trousers]

9 hours ago, Greedyfly said:

See I can absolutely get behind this optimism, I want him to do well but we also went on a bit of a generational run to make that gap up

My recall is that the infamous unbeaten run didn't make any difference to the gap between ourselves and our promotion rivals. (Happy to be corrected if my memory isn't accurate)

Edited 18 hours ago by trousers

[Greedyfly]

17 minutes ago, trousers said:

My recall is that the infamous unbeaten run didn't make any difference to the gap between ourselves and our promotion rivals. (Happy to be corrected if my memory isn't accurate)

Let's say you are right and I am barking at the moon, because I barely remember my own name at the moment.  HOWEVER, regardless it allowed us to keep pace long enough for Leeds's and Leicester's form to drop off a cliff.

Edited 18 hours ago by Greedyfly

[AlexLaw76]

21 minutes ago, trousers said:

My recall is that the infamous unbeaten run didn't make any difference to the gap between ourselves and our promotion rivals. (Happy to be corrected if my memory isn't accurate)

Pretty sure that was the case, we were exactly the same amount points from the top 2 at the end of that run as were were on the first win against Leeds.

That run mitigated the shit start, hence why the nervousness about the iffy start we are having again. However, we draw a few in that run

[Dman]

22 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Pretty sure that was the case, we were exactly the same amount points from the top 2 at the end of that run as were were on the first win against Leeds.

That run mitigated the shit start, hence why the nervousness about the iffy start we are having again. However, we draw a few in that run

In fairness, I don’t think the level will be as high this year. 

Ipswich have also had an iffy start, Leicester will likely get a points deduction. No one has really stood out as any good this season, tbh. 
 

hopefully, with the signings last week, we’ll have a squad much more suited to Still and removal of the deadwood. 
 

im really nervous about the GK situation however. 

[east-stand-nic]

On 31/08/2025 at 15:51, trousers said:

After 14 games in the Championship last time around we were 15 points behind Leicester and 11 points behind Ipswich, so still plenty of time for things to get a bad as they were under Russell Martin in the initial stages of the season...

 

It can be viewed even worse if you look at it in a points per game way. 15 Points behind after 14 games means they were getting on average 1.07 points per game more than us. Right now we are 7 points behind the top team after 4 games. So Boro have averaged 1.75 points per game more than us. Of course I am well aware it is too early to draw such a comparison, but we need to catch up soon else like our last time in this league, even a 25 game unbeaten run did not close the gap. It is hard to catch up in this league. 

[Jack]

2 hours ago, trousers said:

My recall is that the infamous unbeaten run didn't make any difference to the gap between ourselves and our promotion rivals. (Happy to be corrected if my memory isn't accurate)

You’re right. We had loads of shit 1-1 draws in that run, most of which we should’ve comfortably won but found ourselves not capitalising (recycling the ball around the back 4 for an hour), and conceding shit goals (from attempting to recycle the ball around the back 4). Didn’t make up any ground at all 

[sockeye]

12 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

even a 25 game unbeaten run did not close the gap

The unbeaten run gets overrated. It was full of draws, which don’t help you move up the table at all. The master architect of this unbeaten run is unbeaten at his current club and finds himself sat in sixth.

[gio1saints]

2 hours ago, trousers said:

My recall is that the infamous unbeaten run didn't make any difference to the gap between ourselves and our promotion rivals. (Happy to be corrected if my memory isn't accurate)

Incorrect. Your definition of “rivals “ and mine may differ - you may count only Ipswich and Foxes maybe Leeds as such - but I think it’s more logical to consider every Championship team a rival. You get same number of points for a win or draw whoever it is. 

We went clear of several other teams who could have stopped us getting a play off berth if we had derailed and started losing more. That’s what the unbeaten run helped us deliver - an opportunity to go up via play offs. Not get mugged off finishing 7th or something. 
 

Easy mistake to make though @trousers on a forum where the notion that a record unbeaten run must be mocked not applauded seems to gain credence with every halfwit who repeats it (not you of course!)😂

Edited 15 hours ago by gio1saints