Will Still

[Osvaldorama]

Are SR demanding that managers stick to a 5 at the back formation?

 

Successive managers all play this nonsense and it never works. Just wondering if they’re instructed to do it 

Edited 4 hours ago by Osvaldorama

[Mr X]

I honestly thought he seemed quite an exciting prospect when they appointed him and all the talk that he's very adaptable and likes to mix things up and he's done well abroad but so far he's just proved to be a complete fraud! Yes like today we have had more than our fair share of bad luck but is it bad luck really when you miss 5 plus absolute sitters? To me he's not got enough about him to turn this team around I don't think the players have that respect for him yet

Edited 8 hours ago by Mr X

[Lee On Solent Saint]

24 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Was it? Or was it down to Martin

Edozie, Downes, Stephens, THB can’t, or barely buy a start, neither can Aribo. manning is in and out

Fraser in/out. Remind me where Smallbone is these days...Bree was not wanted, and he barely used / wanted Alcaraz

KWP, Adams and Stewart Armstrong (if not injured) would start for sure. Not having Rothwell or Mara

Brooks when he came in made a massive difference. Even Bednarek would start this season. We are one player, a centre forward away from at least being in with a chance of top six. Is this team good enough to stay in touch with the chasing pack until January when the lack of a striker can be addressed

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, benjii said:

I don't think anyone looked scared today. There wasn't anything particularly wrong in the set up, commitment or execution, apart from the finishing.

What was bad, was that we didn't do anything active to go for it in the last 30 minutes. Swapping wing backs around and playing with nothing much through the middle when you've got 3 CBs on the pitch and are playing a crap team at home is cowardly and uninventive.

Spot the fuck on. 
 

Really poor 2nd half performance. The players have to take some ownership of that but we were so bad Still also has to shoulder some of the blame. 
 

Fellows must be thinking why the fuck we bothered signing him. Armstrong has been out of form for 18 months and looks it. 

[WALK DMC]

38 minutes ago, aintforever said:

That’s just bullshit, Martin had Smallbone in midfield and Bazunu in goal. We won’t know the true potential of this team unless we get a real manager.

Smallbone was a regular in the Saints team that came 4th in 23-24. He is now a regular in a team that is currently 5th in the Championship. He isn't as awful as you imply. I'll give you Bazunu though....

[benjii]

2 hours ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

So you want to appoint an ninth eighth manager in under 3 years?

Sunk cost fallacy.

Just because we appointed a bunch of shit managers previously doesn't mean we need to stick with one now.

[aintforever]

57 minutes ago, WALK DMC said:

Smallbone was a regular in the Saints team that came 4th in 23-24. He is now a regular in a team that is currently 5th in the Championship. He isn't as awful as you imply. I'll give you Bazunu though....

Still chose to loan him out.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 minute ago, benjii said:

Sunk cost fallacy.

Just because we appointed a bunch of shit managers previously doesn't mean we need to stick with one now.

But we will employ another one who is just as shit, and so the cycle continues.

[Patches O Houlihan]

4 minutes ago, benjii said:

Sunk cost fallacy.

Just because we appointed a bunch of shit managers previously doesn't mean we need to stick with one now.

We are unbeaten in four games since the away loss at Liverpool. The first half today was the best we have played all season. We are 4 points off the playoffs with 36 games to play.

Edited 6 hours ago by Patches O Houlihan

[benjii]

Smallbone >>>> Azaz.

[Patches O Houlihan]

1 minute ago, benjii said:

Smallbone >>>> Azaz.

Neither are better than the players who played today in their positions/roles

[Jack]

Still said we have to play this shit 5 at the back (not his preferred system), because he didn’t have a 10 or a winger. He’s got all of that, they’re quite clearly our best players, but we stick with this defensive minded boring bullshit against relegation fodder at home. Even with 70 mins gone and 0-0, he’s too scared to change it. Instead we have our prized winger thrown in at wing back. 
 

I know we can’t keep chopping and changing and I liked the way he came across, but the performances and results are fucking terrible and his excuses are wearing thin. He’s desperately trying to stumble across a winning formula more by luck than judgement and hoping it’ll come good, which it won’t. SR need to stop fucking about and being clever and employ a proper football person who’s been there and done it, will command respect, and put his best players in their best fucking positions and get on with it. 

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Are you for fuckin real? That's the most bell end comment I've read on here for a long time. The team we had with Martin was ten times better than this shower of shite, yet he still only managed to get them to 4th place.

That would be Martin who built a midfield around Smallbone, Aribo and Downes, none of whom can get into the team at the moment.

[CB Fry]

13 minutes ago, benjii said:

Sunk cost fallacy.

Just because we appointed a bunch of shit managers previously doesn't mean we need to stick with one now.

I've no idea why we should keep faith with Will Still when Will Still has kept no faith in two of his biggest and most expensive signings of the summer, Azaz and Fellows not even starting.

He's obviously of his depth. 

[The Kraken]

1 minute ago, CB Fry said:

I've no idea why we should keep faith with Will Still when Will Still has kept no faith in two of his biggest and most expensive signings of the summer, Azaz and Fellows not even starting.

He's obviously of his depth. 

Not just most expensive, but most important positions to fill. Still whinged in the time before they were signed, saying he didn’t yet have the players to play “his” system. Now he’s got the players, he doesn’t use them. And when he finally brings them on to the pitch, it’s not in their natural positions. Pretty hard to defend a manager who says and does that.

[Patches O Houlihan]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Was it? Or was it down to Martin

Edozie, Downes, Stephens, THB can’t, or barely buy a start, neither can Aribo. manning is in and out

Fraser in/out. Remind me where Smallbone is these days...Bree was not wanted, and he barely used / wanted Alcaraz

KWP, Adams and Stewart Armstrong (if not injured) would start for sure. Not having Rothwell or Mara

Brooks was pretty good too.

It worked fine to play Martinball in the Champ, but the players who tried to play it extensively in the Premier League now seem to be broken by it emotionally, and are struggling to adapt their game back to normal football: Flynn Downes has played about eight forward passes all season.

To hear you singing Russell Martin's praises is truly a bizarre about turn. You were a hardcore 'Martin out' during the Championship season. 

Russ was good for team morale and rebuilt the team spirt after the lacklustre first PL relegation, but his style was polarising and was never likely to work in the PL

Still inherited a team that was even more demoralised than the one that Martin inherited, and it had worse players at the start of the transfer window. It would seem from the outside that he doesn't have Martin's ability to turn around the mood rapidly (which honestly I was very impressed by). 

BUT - I think Still's style is far more likely to work in the PL if we are promoted. We have lost only 2 of 10 league games (Martin had lost 4 at this stage) and we did pretty well away at Liverpool.

The first half we played today was the best we have played all season. As I just said on the other thread; 36 games to play and we are only 4 points off the playoffs.

Aside from the likely points deduction people were expecting Leicester to do well - they have 1 win and 4 draws in last five.

[Fabrice29]

34 minutes ago, Jack said:

Still said we have to play this shit 5 at the back (not his preferred system), because he didn’t have a 10 or a winger. He’s got all of that, they’re quite clearly our best players, but we stick with this defensive minded boring bullshit against relegation fodder at home. Even with 70 mins gone and 0-0, he’s too scared to change it. Instead we have our prized winger thrown in at wing back. 
 

I know we can’t keep chopping and changing and I liked the way he came across, but the performances and results are fucking terrible and his excuses are wearing thin. He’s desperately trying to stumble across a winning formula more by luck than judgement and hoping it’ll come good, which it won’t. SR need to stop fucking about and being clever and employ a proper football person who’s been there and done it, will command respect, and put his best players in their best fucking positions and get on with it. 

Last time we didn't play "this shit 5 at the back" we lost 3-1 to Hull. 

[AlexLaw76]

3 minutes ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

 

To hear you singing Russell Martin's praises is truly a bizarre about turn. You were a hardcore 'Martin out' during the Championship season. 

 

Exactly, Martin delivered in this league and it was pretty clear he would be an utter failure in the Premier League, which was the fact I wanted him out.

Will Still will not even get close to matching that, despite how shite Martin was

[Smirking_Saint]

24 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Not just most expensive, but most important positions to fill. Still whinged in the time before they were signed, saying he didn’t yet have the players to play “his” system. Now he’s got the players, he doesn’t use them. And when he finally brings them on to the pitch, it’s not in their natural positions. Pretty hard to defend a manager who says and does that.

I think this is the point I made, he’s built an expensive team to fit his primary formation and has still struggled to find a regular formation/line up

And Im not anti Still, I still believe at the time it was the right/good appointment from the club considering his standing in the game and available options at this level

He’s just turned out to be bland and unimpressive and (forgive me Ive been away in the states for 3 weeks) was it him that fell out with the dressing room ?

[Jack]

2 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Last time we didn't play "this shit 5 at the back" we lost 3-1 to Hull. 

Granted, but playing this shit 5 at the back hasn’t exactly got us winning, or playing well. 
 

Point is, the manager wanted to play 4-2-3-1 or something along those lines, complained that he didn’t have the players to do it so we had to endure his less preferred system, which also hasn’t worked. The club spent a fortune on players to fit his preferred system which he’s since ditched, dropped the players he wanted, and we’re still shit and failing to beat shit teams who will be in a relegation scrap. 

Setting up with three CBs has obvious flaws, especially against a side who aren’t even there to win. It’s madness to stick with it when it looks as bad as it did in the 2nd half today against a completely passive team there for the taking. 

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, Smirking_Saint said:

 

He’s just turned out to be bland and unimpressive and (forgive me Ive been away in the states for 3 weeks) was it him that fell out with the dressing room ?

Not sure anyone has been 'fingered' for that? Some online believe it was Still as the picture used to post the article was clearly SMS.

Fuck knows, in other words.

[The Kraken]

7 minutes ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

BUT - I think Still's style is far more likely to work in the PL if we are promoted.

Genuinely interested to hear what you think Still’s style is, because I haven’t really worked it out yet. He seems to have settled on a formation, but the style just seems a bit of a jumble.

Take pretty much any half decent manager for us in the past 20 years and, very quickly after they began, you could see an identifiable style. Probably best exemplified by of all managers Russell Martin, you could see in our very first league game how much the team had taken his principles on board (for better or worse). I’m still a bit in the dark about what a Will Still side is. Today he complained that the side aren’t doing what he wants, it’s too much Russball, but what is it he actually wants them to do?

[Patches O Houlihan]

Just now, The Kraken said:

Genuinely interested to hear what you think Still’s style is, because I haven’t really worked it out yet. He seems to have settled on a formation, but the style just seems a bit of a jumble.

Take pretty much any half decent manager for us in the past 20 years and, very quickly after they began, you could see an identifiable style. Probably best exemplified by of all managers Russell Martin, you could see in our very first league game how much the team had taken his principles on board (for better or worse). I’m still a bit in the dark about what a Will Still side is. Today he complained that the side aren’t doing what he wants, it’s too much Russball, but what is it he actually wants them to do?

He doesn't have a true 'accepted style' he's a pragmatic coach and tries to build a team around its strengths. In his previous roles he got a group of players used to playing together who were familiar with the division, and whilst on a loosing streak weren't a complete basket case.

Saints had two groups of players going into September:

Those who have struggled to change from Martinball and were demoralised by the PL season

Those new at the club or are returning from loan.

Still initial plan didn't work because it relied too heavily on that first group.

His second plan worked but required Ross Stewart to play. And it worked.

Today looked to me like it was his third plan: The defence was the same but we played far more direct forward balls through their defence to players around the D. There was less reliance on getting to the byline and delivering crosses, although clearly there was some of this. I also felt like the three CBs played higher allowing the two midfielders to play in a more forward/attacking way. It was also helpful that Scienza was given licence to roam.

[RedArmy]

20 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Last time we didn't play "this shit 5 at the back" we lost 3-1 to Hull. 

With Baz in goal, a back 4 of Roerslev Shoehorn THB Manning and Fraser and Downs starting at the other end of the pitch. 
 

Might be an idea to try it without shit players. Wood is definitely good enough to lead a back 4, show some faith in him. 

Fellows, Azaz and Scienza is a 3 that nearly every team in this league would be jealous of. 
 

 

[The Kraken]

1 minute ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

He doesn't have a true 'accepted style' he's a pragmatic coach and tries to build a team around its strengths. In his previous roles he got a group of players used to playing together who were familiar with the division, and whilst on a loosing streak weren't a complete basket case.

Saints had two groups of players going into September:

Those who have struggled to change from Martinball and were demoralised by the PL season

Those new at the club or are returning from loan.

Still initial plan didn't work because it relied too heavily on that first group.

His second plan worked but required Ross Stewart to play. And it worked.

Today looked to me like it was his third plan: The defence was the same but we played far more direct forward balls through their defence to players around the D. There was less reliance on getting to the byline and delivering crosses, although clearly there was some of this. I also felt like the three CBs played higher allowing the two midfielders to play in a more forward/attacking way. It was also helpful that Scienza was given licence to roam.

Cheers.

If you’re right in what you say, that this is his third plan, then that says something in itself. Good to be flexible but having 3 styles within two months doesn’t look like great leadership to me.

I hoped his style would be akin to the last 20 mins of the first half. Full backs pushed up, “wingers” getting on the ball very high up the pitch and running at defenders. Midfielders driving forward into the box like Shea Charles did a couple of times quite effectively.  I enjoyed watching that part of the game. The rest I found quite frustrating. Personally I can’t see that style being sustainable while playing 3/5 at the back, just doesn’t give enough possession high up the flanks and doesn’t play to the strengths of having a “number 10”. Which is why I think we look disjointed and are playing a formation that doesn’t tally with a certain style of play.

[Patches O Houlihan]

12 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Cheers.

If you’re right in what you say, that this is his third plan, then that says something in itself. Good to be flexible but having 3 styles within two months doesn’t look like great leadership to me.

I hoped his style would be akin to the last 20 mins of the first half. Full backs pushed up, “wingers” getting on the ball very high up the pitch and running at defenders. Midfielders driving forward into the box like Shea Charles did a couple of times quite effectively.  I enjoyed watching that part of the game. The rest I found quite frustrating. Personally I can’t see that style being sustainable while playing 3/5 at the back, just doesn’t give enough possession high up the flanks and doesn’t play to the strengths of having a “number 10”. Which is why I think we look disjointed and are playing a formation that doesn’t tally with a certain style of play.

If Stewart had survived the last 60 minutes of our last game we would be playing Plan B which was working. With the players that were recruited for him I just see him doing the best that he can.

We didn't play with a 10 today

                      McCarthy

            Edwards   Wood  THB

Jelert       Jander Charles     Wely

            Armstrong        Scienza

                          Archer

Edwards and THB were the ball players, Jander & Charles got forward to support. All three centre backs + Charles were up for set pieces to provide an aerial threat. Wood dominated in defence.

The front three played a good press, and generally the front seven were quite fluid in their positions. At one point in the middle of the first half I think Jelert played a short ball to Welington around the right corner of their area. Scienza's touch map appeared on the screen at the end of the game. I can't find it right now but it looked like a child's finger painting! The only place he didn't get the ball was in the RB position. He clearly had licence to roam. Jander and Charles both had close range shots.

Edited 5 hours ago by Patches O Houlihan
First lines and last line added

[Fabrice29]

23 minutes ago, Jack said:

Granted, but playing this shit 5 at the back hasn’t exactly got us winning, or playing well. 
 

Point is, the manager wanted to play 4-2-3-1 or something along those lines, complained that he didn’t have the players to do it so we had to endure his less preferred system, which also hasn’t worked. The club spent a fortune on players to fit his preferred system which he’s since ditched, dropped the players he wanted, and we’re still shit and failing to beat shit teams who will be in a relegation scrap. 

Setting up with three CBs has obvious flaws, especially against a side who aren’t even there to win. It’s madness to stick with it when it looks as bad as it did in the 2nd half today against a completely passive team there for the taking. 

 

5 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

With Baz in goal, a back 4 of Roerslev Shoehorn THB Manning and Fraser and Downs starting at the other end of the pitch. 
 

Might be an idea to try it without shit players. Wood is definitely good enough to lead a back 4, show some faith in him. 

Fellows, Azaz and Scienza is a 3 that nearly every team in this league would be jealous of. 
 

 

I don't necessarily disagree with some of the points made by you both but the idea the formation changes and we'll suddenly become really efficient in front of goal and we'll just start winning games has zero basis. We've changed both the manager and "system" quite a lot this year and the evidence suggests quite the opposite. 

[aintforever]

4 minutes ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

We didn't play with a 10 today

                      McCarthy

            Edwards   Wood  THB

Jelert       Jander Charles     Wely

            Armstrong        Scienza

                          Archer

 

I don’t get why we need 3 CBs, take one out and you can add a creative player in behind Archer in a 4-2-3-1, easily good enough defensively against a team like Swansea and with an extra creative player on the pitch.

[Greedyfly]

2 hours ago, notnowcato said:

Spot the fuck on. 
 

Really poor 2nd half performance. The players have to take some ownership of that but we were so bad Still also has to shoulder some of the blame. 
 

Fellows must be thinking why the fuck we bothered signing him. Armstrong has been out of form for 18 months and looks it. 

This is quite the change in tone for someone who backed Martin to the hilt? 

 

I'm genuinely not trying to pick a scrap either but why the greater animosity for Still Vs Martin? Genuine question because I don't actually disagree with you.

[The Kraken]

4 minutes ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

We didn't play with a 10 today.

No I know. I mentioned it as I thought/assumed that was what Still wanted in his sides, as well as wingers.

I largely don’t disagree with what you said, although I dont agree we have a good front press, I’ve not been impressed with that part of our style for a few games now. And I think any Saints fan would say “more of that please” from Scienza’s first half in particular.

[Wade Garrett]

Fuck off Will you clueless cunt.

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 hours ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

Still specifically mentions trying to empower the players to not be scared

It’s all a load of old fucking pony. All talk. Results are all that matters, and they’re not good enough. We’re 3 points behind Nathan Jones, who has a far inferior squad. That’s not fucking good enough. If players are “scared” fuck them off. It’s St Mary’s in the second tier, if they’re scared of that, they need to do one….If Weasley can’t sort them out, he needs binning as well. 

Edited 5 hours ago by Lord Duckhunter

[Patches O Houlihan]

Just now, aintforever said:

I don’t get why we need 3 CBs, take one out and you can add a creative player in behind Archer in a 4-2-3-1, easily good enough defensively against a team like Swansea and with an extra creative player on the pitch.

4-2-3-1 when played against a league that will mostly be defensive playing against you needs Ross Stewart and we don't have him. That was Plan B.

Plan C requires us to get the ball to our midget forwards to score. Which means probing through balls, clever short crosses, and attacking players popping up all over the show so their defence can't crowd out our little chaps. Plus Scienza doing his thing.

There could be an argument for a 4-3-3 with the front six very fluid, but that's a wholesale change and at the moment we are doing OK defensively. So rather than throw the baby out with the bathwater I think we're trying to build from a relatively solid defensive base (something we've heard pundits blather on about for years)

[Wade Garrett]

11 minutes ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

4-2-3-1 when played against a league that will mostly be defensive playing against you needs Ross Stewart and we don't have him. That was Plan B.

Plan C requires us to get the ball to our midget forwards to score. Which means probing through balls, clever short crosses, and attacking players popping up all over the show so their defence can't crowd out our little chaps. Plus Scienza doing his thing.

There could be an argument for a 4-3-3 with the front six very fluid, but that's a wholesale change and at the moment we are doing OK defensively. So rather than throw the baby out with the bathwater I think we're trying to build from a relatively solid defensive base (something we've heard pundits blather on about for years)

The clueless one played 5 at the back with Stewart in the side.

[Patches O Houlihan]

8 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

The clueless one played 5 at the back with Stewart in the side.

Yes you're right. 

But I still think you'd need Stewart for the 4-2-3-1. If you want to play a back four you'd play 4-3-3 with a single sitting midfielder.

[Willo of Whiteley]

3 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

Are SR demanding that managers stick to a 5 at the back formation?

 

Successive managers all play this nonsense and it never works. Just wondering if there instructed to do it 

No. Seems a bit of an unnecessary conspiracy theory.

With that logic do you think SR’s logic is to spunk a lot of money on new players and then not play them?

[die Mannyschaft]

35 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It’s all a load of old fucking pony. All talk. Results are all that matters, and they’re not good enough. We’re 3 points behind Nathan Jones, who has a far inferior squad. That’s not fucking good enough. If players are “scared” fuck them off. It’s St Mary’s in the second tier, if they’re scared of that, they need to do one….If Weasley can’t sort them out, he needs binning as well. 

We’re 3 points behind Nathan Jones,

that's shocking, forgot about that I thought he was in league 1. 

[trousers]

5 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

do you think SR’s logic is to spunk a lot of money on new players and then not play them?

I wouldn't put anything past these charlatans....

[Osvaldorama]

57 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

With Baz in goal, a back 4 of Roerslev Shoehorn THB Manning and Fraser and Downs starting at the other end of the pitch. 
 

Might be an idea to try it without shit players. Wood is definitely good enough to lead a back 4, show some faith in him. 

Fellows, Azaz and Scienza is a 3 that nearly every team in this league would be jealous of. 
 

 

Especially at home. Fuck me, how negative can we be. 
 

We have millions of pounds of attacking players on the bench and we play 5 defenders, even against lower half teams at home. 

Soul destroying , honestly 

[bugenhagen]

Still just got scared and felt the pressure after the shit performances with the back four. He is playing the back five to keep consistency and build from the back/clean sheets. 

The general idea of consistency and building a backline is a good one, but he needs to get results fast if he’s going to continue.

Hopefully the players are not as confused as most of us are about what he is trying to do, but it sure looks like it. 

I think he is failing, and the next matches will only get worse, not better. 

[RedArmy]

49 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

 

I don't necessarily disagree with some of the points made by you both but the idea the formation changes and we'll suddenly become really efficient in front of goal and we'll just start winning games has zero basis. We've changed both the manager and "system" quite a lot this year and the evidence suggests quite the opposite. 

What’s the alternative though? Just carry on doing what we’re doing? 
 

Surely the first job of a manager is to get his best players in their best positions and get them playing well. Half of them are now on the bench because we haven’t got a position for them. Utterly ridiculous. 
 

The Hull result obviously spooked him but now that we seem to have found a bit more resilience at the back with McCarthy in goal and Wood coming in surely today was a good opportunity (especially with Quarshie out injured) to give the 4-2-3-1 another chance. 

 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Postecoglou available. Second year trophy. 

[swannymere]

Unless anyone can guarantee someone who's going to do a better job immediately with the same players what's the point in changing? We've changed so many times in recent years and it hasn't changed a damn thing.

[Disco Stu]

2 minutes ago, swannymere said:

Unless anyone can guarantee someone who's going to do a better job immediately with the same players what's the point in changing? We've changed so many times in recent years and it hasn't changed a damn thing.

With Sport Republic choosing the next appointment, it's hard to disagree. We all know where the source of the rot is.

[Monk]

Interestingly, he often makes comments associated to players having ’freedom’ to make in game decisions. With regular subtle digs to the previous management and their restrictive playing philosophy.
 

For a coach that wants player driven freedom, intuition and creativity he’s not provided the platform for this tactically IMO. WS has often alluded to losing possession in certain areas ‘around our goal’ yet loads that part of the pitch with a back five and a two pivots. (Wing backs are rarely encouraged on until we’ve progressed out of our defensive third).

I just don’t see what’s been ‘coached’ by this management team.

 

 

[qwertyell]

3 hours ago, notnowcato said:

Armstrong has been out of form for 18 months and looks it. 

This is his 5th season at Saints.

He's only not been absolute garbage in one of them.

It's a quality issue, not a form issue. 

[Patches O Houlihan]

18 minutes ago, Monk said:

Interestingly, he often makes comments associated to players having ’freedom’ to make in game decisions. With regular subtle digs to the previous management and their restrictive playing philosophy.

 

 

[notnowcato]

2 hours ago, Greedyfly said:

This is quite the change in tone for someone who backed Martin to the hilt? 

 

I'm genuinely not trying to pick a scrap either but why the greater animosity for Still Vs Martin? Genuine question because I don't actually disagree with you.

Honest opinion mate. 
I genuinely enjoyed watching us the last time we were in the Championship. I could see what the team were trying to do, granted the style wasn’t for everyone but I liked it. 
 

We’re a shower this season. Obviously I hope Will turns it around but at the moment it doesn’t look close to happening. Even if we had won today, which we absolutely should’ve done, you’d reflect on the way we’re playing and know we’re not troubling top 6 the way things currently are. 

[Badger]

2 hours ago, swannymere said:

Unless anyone can guarantee someone who's going to do a better job immediately with the same players what's the point in changing? We've changed so many times in recent years and it hasn't changed a damn thing.

This is the worry with SR. Could we appoint a better option, yes, but trusting Spors & Co to do so is another matter. 
 

No doubt they’re scouring League 1 for an upcoming manager who they think can be fast tracked  into the Championship. 

[Badger]

4 hours ago, CB Fry said:

I've no idea why we should keep faith with Will Still when Will Still has kept no faith in two of his biggest and most expensive signings of the summer, Azaz and Fellows not even starting.

He's obviously of his depth. 

I’d actually give him some credit for not making selections based on the price tag. 
 

But he should be getting more out of them, Fellows should be a starter in my view. Azaz hasn’t really found his feet here, is that down to him, those around him or the manager ? 
 

Agree that he seems out of his depth though.