New Manager Debate

[Saint NL]

Is it correct that we've scored as many goals under Eckert as we did under Still? 

 

[benjii]

1 minute ago, Saint NL said:

Is it correct that we've scored as many goals under Eckert as we did under Still? 

 

I don’t know. I wish there was a way to find these things out.

[Saint NL]

4 minutes ago, benjii said:

I don’t know. I wish there was a way to find these things out.

Well I guess we'll never know

[Number9]

4 minutes ago, Saint NL said:

Well I guess we'll never know

Look at the table. We've scored 26 goals and conceded 22 goals.

In the last four games we've scored 2 + 3 + 5 + 3 = 13, so yes, in the league, we've scored as many goals in the last 4 games as we did in the 13 games before that under WS.

(And conceded 3 in the last 4 games compared to 19 in the previous 13).

[Saint NL]

4 minutes ago, Number9 said:

Look at the table. We've scored 26 goals and conceded 22 goals.

In the last four games we've scored 2 + 3 + 5 + 3 = 13, so yes, in the league, we've scored as many goals in the last 4 games as we did in the 13 games before that under WS.

(And conceded 3 in the last 4 games compared to 19 in the previous 13).

Look pal, unless it's on a tweet with a nice graphic that's far too many number and letters for me to read.

 

[Dusic]

3 hours ago, The Kraken said:

How is Slugger these days? He had a bit of a drinking problem last I heard.

You aren't wrong, he ended up out in Bulgaria for a few years working in a slaughterhouse and it didn't treat him especially well. He is doing much better now though, mostly based in Dubai and off the booze.

He mentioned you actually and the trip to Dagenham with @PoacherJake and @joe botyov

[Give it to Ron]

[AlexLaw76]

Good stuff. 
 

 

[West end Saints]

1 hour ago, Saint86 said:

Slight cautionary note was the post match comments from THB (in particular - he struggled to give a coherent reason why he wanted him to get the job other than umming his way to implying he was better than Still) and Scienza. Its a fine balance between having a manager the players like and respect, and having one they are comfortable playing for because things are chummy behind the scenes. Obviously we don't know the true situation, but there is no ducking the point that several first team players clearly weren't playing for Still and there are possible echoes here of when Selles got the job after being popular with the players. That said, i like our play under JE, and at a certain point (if form continues) he has to get the job surely. I'm just not sure i trust some of our players enough to have reached that point so far - if he gets the permanent position will they just relax again?

I disagree based on THB post match interview on Solent after the game.

He gave all the credit for the run to the manager and explained how he had changed things.

He said how the goals at Charlton had been walked through in practice, and yesterday morning they had been practicing those set pieces.

Clearly they are enjoying playing for him - but we are enjoying his team.

I do think luck plays into how new managers do - the fact we managed to grind out results in the first games means that players are more likely to listen to a manager, which in turn means it is more likely to succeed 

[Toadhall Saint]

36 minutes ago, Saint NL said:

Look pal, unless it's on a tweet with a nice graphic that's far too many number and letters for me to read.

 

I won’t be happy unless it relates to xg or something 

[Oisin]

If Tonda is so unexpectedly amazing at stuff, could we appoint him as the Chancellor and get an epic budget delivered?

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, Saint NL said:

Well I guess we'll never know

That’s SR all over, no transparency!

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, Number9 said:

Look at the table. We've scored 26 goals and conceded 22 goals.

In the last four games we've scored 2 + 3 + 5 + 3 = 13, so yes, in the league, we've scored as many goals in the last 4 games as we did in the 13 games before that under WS.

(And conceded 3 in the last 4 games compared to 19 in the previous 13).

ITK watch .

[franniesTache]

At this stage and with the way we're playing it would be insane to give the job to someone else other than Tonda and then expect them to start all over again whilst maintaining results.

So given who our owners are that's exactly what i expect to happen

[Chez]

1 hour ago, West end Saints said:

I disagree based on THB post match interview on Solent after the game.

He gave all the credit for the run to the manager and explained how he had changed things.

He said how the goals at Charlton had been walked through in practice, and yesterday morning they had been practicing those set pieces.

Clearly they are enjoying playing for him - but we are enjoying his team.

I do think luck plays into how new managers do - the fact we managed to grind out results in the first games means that players are more likely to listen to a manager, which in turn means it is more likely to succeed 

I agree about the luck aspect. Getting those first two wins boosted confidence helping get the third win...which then helped get the fourth. There's a couple great chances for QPR that were not taken. Things could easily have gone a different way, but a little bit of luck is essential.

That said, even with those two wins boosting confidence, the application in the last two games has been good and needed to be. The head coach can't perform miracles, but he seems to have created an environment from which the team can prosper. 

Can it be retained and can we bounce back from a defeat?

[Fitzhugh Fella]

The fickleness of the average football fan (myself included) can be breathtaking.

Five short days ago there were very few on here who wanted TE as our new boss, but now there are very few on here who don't want him as our new manager.

Who said a week is a long time in politics?

[JustinR]

4 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

The fickleness of the average football fan (myself included) can be breathtaking.

Five short days ago there were very few on here who wanted TE as our new boss, but now there are very few on here who don't want him as our new manager.

Who said a week is a long time in politics?

Not sure it's being fickle. I think the evidence has changed. Before, it was a manager with zero experience- i.e. a huge gamble when all the others haven't paid off. 

Now, the risks feel much lower. It wasn't unreasonable for us to say he was the wrong man at the wrong time before. Now looks like he very much is the right man. 

[The Hoff]

Do do doooooo

Let's all do the Tonda 🎶

[Starksj1995]

6 hours ago, Football Special said:

We've been treating that National League Cup like that for a while, lost all games in it? Same as last season I think

Will be more telling in coming weeks playing other elite Euro u21 sides 

What cup we ain’t in the national league cup

[Football Special]

24 minutes ago, Starksj1995 said:

What cup we ain’t in the national league cup

Not sure I understand your question?

[Nordic Saint]

On 18/11/2025 at 18:24, pimpin4rizeal said:

Just doesn’t make any sense whatsoever why they want eckhart what benefit is there in picking a totally inexperienced manager ?  We seem to have total obsession with young everything ..  how difficult can it be to get someone in who has actually done good jobs at other clubs id even prefer Nathan Jones back 

You'd prefer Nathan Jones to Eckert? That's what doesn't make any sense.

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

The fickleness of the average football fan (myself included) can be breathtaking.

Five short days ago there were very few on here who wanted TE as our new boss, but now there are very few on here who don't want him as our new manager.

Who said a week is a long time in politics?

I mean if you win your first four games in the manner he has the I can see why people would immediately reevaluate (me included.)

[trousers]

2 hours ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

The fickleness of the average football fan (myself included) can be breathtaking.

Five short days ago there were very few on here who wanted TE as our new boss, but now there are very few on here who don't want him as our new manager.

Who said a week is a long time in politics?

It's almost as if no-one could foresee that a rookie manager would string 4 great wins together....

Spoiler: I don't know next week's lottery numbers either...

[CamSaint]

But everything on here (and probably other clubs' forums as well) is built on a short term view. Suppose a Saints manager had a 10 match spell winning only one league match and drawing another as well as being eliminated from both cups? I suspect that most on here would be baying for blood and demanding that the manager be sacked.

And yet.......that was exactly what happened in the 2015-16 season between November and January under Koeman, who many regard as our best manager in recent memory. During that spell we slumped from 7th to 13th in the PL. However, of course, we stuck by him and got through that patch to have a storming last part of the season, finishing 6th in the PL.

Of course I accept that that's not equivalent to any of our very recent managerial merry-go-rounds, as Koeman had secured a 7th place finish the previous season and obviously was a massive name in football so had a lot of credit in the bank, but it does serve to highlight that even the best managers can have some very sticky patches. 

I hope that whoever gets appointed, whether it is Eckert or someone else, is given a little bit of leeway if things go badly for a while before the 'manager out' clamour starts again.

[AlexLaw76]

8 minutes ago, CamSaint said:

But everything on here (and probably other clubs' forums as well) is built on a short term view. Suppose a Saints manager had a 10 match spell winning only one league match and drawing another as well as being eliminated from both cups? I suspect that most on here would be baying for blood and demanding that the manager be sacked.

And yet.......that was exactly what happened in the 2015-16 season between November and January under Koeman, who many regard as our best manager in recent memory. During that spell we slumped from 7th to 13th in the PL. However, of course, we stuck by him and got through that patch to have a storming last part of the season, finishing 6th in the PL.

Of course I accept that that's not equivalent to any of our very recent managerial merry-go-rounds, as Koeman had secured a 7th place finish the previous season and obviously was a massive name in football so had a lot of credit in the bank, but it does serve to highlight that even the best managers can have some very sticky patches. 

I hope that whoever gets appointed, whether it is Eckert or someone else, is given a little bit of leeway if things go badly for a while before the 'manager out' clamour starts again.

But Koeman was a world class player, and a proven manager (at saints in particular). He had credit in the bank, but if that run continued, he would have been pushed I suspect

[Badger]

33 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

But Koeman was a world class player, and a proven manager (at saints in particular). He had credit in the bank, but if that run continued, he would have been pushed I suspect

I think there were rumours that he was close to it in January, but a midweek win against Watford I think put him back on track. 

[Badger]

44 minutes ago, CamSaint said:

 

I hope that whoever gets appointed, whether it is Eckert or someone else, is given a little bit of leeway if things go badly for a while before the 'manager out' clamour starts again.

Or a clamour to bring back Tonda if he returns to the U21's.

[The Wyvern]

4 hours ago, CamSaint said:

I hope that whoever gets appointed, whether it is Eckert or someone else, is given a little bit of leeway if things go badly for a while before the 'manager out' clamour starts again.

Which of recently sacked managers should have been given more leeway than they were?  

[Lord Duckhunter]

13 hours ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

The fickleness of the average football fan (myself included) can be breathtaking.

Five short days ago there were very few on here who wanted TE as our new boss, but now there are very few on here who don't want him as our new manager.

If he loses 3 or 4 on the bounce people will be moaning he was given the job. 
 

I’m torn myself. He clearly hasn’t got the experience, but 4 out of 4 is deserving of the job. You never know, he could be exceptional & be a fantastic manager, but equally it could be new manager bounce, with him not having the know how to manage after the initial bounce. Nobody really knows.
 

The ideal solution would be to give him the gig until the end of the season, but you do risk losing him to a Fulham/Bournemouth type club during a preseason management merry go round, if he does turn out to be a gem. 

Edited 11 hours ago by Lord Duckhunter

[CB Fry]

10 hours ago, CamSaint said:

I hope that whoever gets appointed, whether it is Eckert or someone else, is given a little bit of leeway if things go badly for a while before the 'manager out' clamour starts again.

So you're saying we should not have sacked Will Still and given him more  "leeway" instead?

[CamSaint]

3 hours ago, CB Fry said:

So you're saying we should not have sacked Will Still and given him more  "leeway" instead?

Your interpretation, not mine.

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Thinking out loud here as I’m not a legal expert when it comes to contracts and obviously we don’t know what is written in Tonda’s. But people are worried about giving him the job until the season ends and then evaluate, in case it is a new manager bounce and he might not handle a few loses etc etc. 

 

But surely, he can have the gig to the end of the season and if then we decide we need someone else, or, he does well and we want to keep him, but people are worried he’ll be poached, wouldn’t he still be under contract with us anyway?  That should stop him being poached and he can return to the U21’s or become the new managers No.2 to learn the trade more, with an eye to first team management again in the future? 

[CB Fry]

4 minutes ago, CamSaint said:

Your interpretation, not mine.

Just trying to interpret your request for "more leeway". If you didn't mean Still which manager did you mean? Who deserved more leeway? 

[Hopper]

In relative terms the cost of a 2-3 year contract for a manager at his level is far less than the risk of losing him at the end of the season if he is successful and gets poached. We've burnt far money more paying the likes of Juric et al. On the hope they would have a positive influence.

Tonda has shown his influence on this team already, so he's a known quantity (mostly). Could it all come undone? It could, but we have data and performances that suggest he's capable at this level, so I don't believe it's much of a risk at all at this point.

Likewise if we were to bring in an 'Experienced' name, the potential cost and risk would be much higher. Larger salary expectations and no guarantee they would be a good fit for the club and squad.

It's a bit of a no brainer to me both from an on-pitch and boardroom perspective.

As a wise Austrian once said if you want a guarantee buy a washing machine...

Edited 7 hours ago by Hopper

[ant]

5 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

If he loses 3 or 4 on the bounce people will be moaning he was given the job. 
 

I’m torn myself. He clearly hasn’t got the experience, but 4 out of 4 is deserving of the job. You never know, he could be exceptional & be a fantastic manager, but equally it could be new manager bounce, with him not having the know how to manage after the initial bounce. Nobody really knows.
 

The ideal solution would be to give him the gig until the end of the season, but you do risk losing him to a Fulham/Bournemouth type club during a preseason management merry go round, if he does turn out to be a gem. 

This feels correct. If we're going with Eckert, we need to give him some form of security and to protect ourselves from potential poachers. Whilst finding the balance of not going OTT.

It's not a terrible gig for your first managerial job... I wonder whether he'd be amenable to an incentivised mid-term contract, with a performance-related automatic extension?

[23rdSaint]

1 hour ago, CB Fry said:

Just trying to interpret your request for "more leeway". If you didn't mean Still which manager did you mean? Who deserved more leeway? 

I don't think he did mean anyone in particular. He didn't say "more leeway than". My read was that if we were to have another dip in form, we should at least remember how we felt after this four game period before we start demanding for him to go. 

[Dusic]

Seeing as most contracts have clauses which mean the manager isn't paid in full if fired, there seems little benefit to anyone to give a contract just until the end of the season which just promotes more uncertainty.

A 2.5yr deal til end of 27/28 season seems sensible to me.

I am more interested in make up of his backroom team, as @Neil Pearts Drumstick mentioned to me on Saturday. Would we stick with essentially the academy staff he has now or look to enhance that with more pro level experience? Usually best when the manager picks who he wants IMO.

[coalman]

The Saints-iest thing that can happen here is we sign up Tonda as full time manager and then he gets poached in either January or at the end of the season.

[TheSoundman]

There's no doubt he hasn't the experience of other candidates being suggested, but I'll tell you one thing he definitely doesn't have any experience of... Losing.

It's a no-brainer now. Sign him up.

[BERMUDASAINT]

One more game before he gets the job full time, with a proper contract, not this end of the year shite! Do not disrespect Tonda!!

This man has tranformed our team and season in 4 games. We have won the last 2 games in the first half, game done! He has brought are senior playes back into the fold with the new talent and has them playing very well. All with his u21 staff i presume.

I am very happy with our new soon to be manager. An early Chistmass present for a long suffering fan, 1966.

[Hopper]

54 minutes ago, 23rdSaint said:

I don't think he did mean anyone in particular. He didn't say "more leeway than". My read was that if we were to have another dip in form, we should at least remember how we felt after this four game period before we start demanding for him to go. 

I think he's already earnt more leeway in these last 4 games than any of the previous lot combined. We were patient with Russ when he came in as we could see at least some measure of improvement/identity. Tonda has already surpassed what Martin was able to do with his first 4 with us and we gave him time so I'd suggest he's good.

Jones, Selles, Juric, Rusk, Still were never able to get that far as they underperformed from the off.

Edited 4 hours ago by Hopper

[CamSaint]

3 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Just trying to interpret your request for "more leeway". If you didn't mean Still which manager did you mean? Who deserved more leeway? 

You've misinterpreted the post again, as I didn't use the phrase 'more leeway'. 

I said:

'Of course I accept that that's not equivalent to any of our very recent managerial merry-go-rounds, as Koeman had secured a 7th place finish the previous season and obviously was a massive name in football so had a lot of credit in the bank, but it does serve to highlight that even the best managers can have some very sticky patches. 

I hope that whoever gets appointed, whether it is Eckert or someone else, is given a little bit of leeway if things go badly for a while before the 'manager out' clamour starts again.'

Nowhere do I suggest that Still or any of recent managerial appointments deserved 'more' leeway. 

[derry]

For the first time in a long time I like the way we are playing. I see a manager who knows his players, is playing them in their natural positions and gelling the way they play thereby getting the best out of them and especially achieving more than the sum of the parts. Something no manager has done since Koeman and at times Hasenhuttl. All in three weeks. If he has done nothing else he has put us in a position to strike out for the top with 29 games left. He deserves the opportunity and should get to decide who he wants to work with. If the chemistry is there then let it be.

[CB Fry]

2 hours ago, CamSaint said:

You've misinterpreted the post again, as I didn't use the phrase 'more leeway'. 

I said:

'Of course I accept that that's not equivalent to any of our very recent managerial merry-go-rounds, as Koeman had secured a 7th place finish the previous season and obviously was a massive name in football so had a lot of credit in the bank, but it does serve to highlight that even the best managers can have some very sticky patches. 

I hope that whoever gets appointed, whether it is Eckert or someone else, is given a little bit of leeway if things go badly for a while before the 'manager out' clamour starts again.'

Nowhere do I suggest that Still or any of recent managerial appointments deserved 'more' leeway. 

So there’s no issue with fans giving managers leeway as you don't think we need to give the new guy any more than we've given any other manager before.

So a really important point you've made then, cheers.