New Manager Debate

[gecko]

4 hours ago, qwertyell said:

I don't believe anyone seriously thought the new interim coach was about to spring a tactical revolution after working with the squad for two days. Sticking with broadly the same structure that they've been used to for months is a perfectly pragmatic short term approach: we need points coming in while the board figure out their next masterstroke appointment that will definitely herald the return of the good times.

This was my thoughts exactly. The guy had 2 days to prep for a match we seriously needed a win from; he was never going to be overhauling anything.

If he's still in charge throughout the international break, and then comes back with the same setup that clearly doesn't work, then maybe he'd deserve some flak. 

 

I think it's probably fair game to slate some of the player choices though. Formation is harder to change on a whim, but the ability of the personnel (or lack thereof) is painfully obvious to us as fans. So it's hard to watch the new guy bring back players, some of whom have years of being terrible as proof that they shouldn't be starters.

[Saint86]

15 hours ago, LocationRemot3 said:

We would be stupid to not wait for Cobreran to be sacked by Valencia and sign him up. Top manager. 

He's a good manager... but his football is absolutely dire.

[OldNick]

17 hours ago, tdmickey3 said:

I did think it might be you but you would be worse

Fair point, 

[Saint86]

5 hours ago, Jack said:

It needs to be McCarthy

I don't think its that clear cut. Bazunu may make a mistake a game but he allows the team to play more expansively and further up the pitch. We're a better footballing side with him in it. And ultimately Macca also has mistakes in him and is a fucking car crash 1-1 and on dealing with high balls... we've been exposed to both a lot under Still. Macca is the better shot stopper though. I'd suggest it makes more sense to pick the keeper depending on who we're playing and how we intend to set up.

And lets not excuse the defending, the goal last night is being blamed on Baz, but stephens and particularly THB had that striker between the two of them, neither watching him, neither noticing him move, neither tracking the run, and neither defending the cross or anywhere near it to be in with any chance of intercepting it or clearing it. Its abysmal defending before its on the keeper as the striker should never have been left unmarked by two defenders that were notionally appearing to mark him ffs.

Edited 2 hours ago by Saint86

[leesaint88]

Regarding managerial appointments. I was listening to the 'no tippy tappy football' podcast that Sam Allardyce runs, he was speaking to the league managers association chairman Richard Bevan who says they often offer advice to clubs in terms of making the right choice with appointments, even offering experienced managers like Allardyce, David Pleat, Ferguson to sit in on interviews. It does make me wonder why our club hasn't bothered taking up the offer, surely with the high turnover of managers it suggests they don't..

[Osvaldorama]

9 minutes ago, leesaint88 said:

Regarding managerial appointments. I was listening to the 'no tippy tappy football' podcast that Sam Allardyce runs, he was speaking to the league managers association chairman Richard Bevan who says they often offer advice to clubs in terms of making the right choice with appointments, even offering experienced managers like Allardyce, David Pleat, Ferguson to sit in on interviews. It does make me wonder why our club hasn't bothered taking up the offer, surely with the high turnover of managers it suggests they don't..

I think we can already answer that. The pure arrogance & ego of SR. They’d never ask for advice from football people. They think they can reinvent it. 

[coalman]

13 minutes ago, leesaint88 said:

Regarding managerial appointments. I was listening to the 'no tippy tappy football' podcast that Sam Allardyce runs, he was speaking to the league managers association chairman Richard Bevan who says they often offer advice to clubs in terms of making the right choice with appointments, even offering experienced managers like Allardyce, David Pleat, Ferguson to sit in on interviews. It does make me wonder why our club hasn't bothered taking up the offer, surely with the high turnover of managers it suggests they don't..

You don't need to do interviews when you can watch the prospective manager "Masterclass" on YouTube and have spreadsheets.

[Sheaf Saint]

25 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Bazunu may make a mistake a game but he allows the team to play more expansively and further up the pitch. We're a better footballing side with him in it. 

I saw zero evidence of that last night.

[Miltonaggro]

I get the feeling that another ‘left field’ choice is about to be made on behalf of SFC, or a former Sport Republic ‘hobby horse’, perhaps Carlos Corberan (after what looked like a wound up fluffer appearing on here last night) is about to be tapped up. What we absolutely need, as Le Tissier mooted earlier in the week, is a big personality, a character to impose on this group, better still an ex player with a pedigree that our basement superstars cannot bypass. Carrick and Gerrard are the type we need right now, but this Board seem to be allergic to senior english football people, a narcissistic inferiority complex or two, sitting at the big table no doubt. We are highly likely to be served up another continental dog’s breakfast as a result! 

[AlexLaw76]

8 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I saw zero evidence of that last night.

It is remarkable how people still say such things. Just very strange behaviour

[sockeye]

8 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

I get the feeling that another ‘left field’ choice is about to be made on behalf of SFC, or a former Sport Republic ‘hobby horse’, perhaps Carlos Corberan (after what looked like a wound up fluffer appearing on here last night) is about to be tapped up. What we absolutely need, as Le Tissier mooted earlier in the week, is a big personality, a character to impose on this group, better still an ex player with a pedigree that our basement superstars cannot bypass. Carrick and Gerrard are the type we need right now, but this Board seem to be allergic to senior english football people, a narcissistic inferiority complex or two, sitting at the big table no doubt. We are highly likely to be served up another continental dog’s breakfast as a result! 

I think it's pretty clear we will not be getting a hard bastard that will whip the squad into shape. That's just not SR's style. Nor will we get a 'pedigreed ex-player' manager. SR like an ex-player for dressing room vibes, and Romeu will continue this trend following Lallana and Walcott. SR have not learned from their mistakes, they will just continue to impose the same 'strategy' they always have.

[sadoldgit]

That Frank Lampard seems to be doing well this season yet nobody on here (or very few) wanted him here last season. Let’s face it, unless you are a big enough club to attract the best, it is always going to be a bit of a lottery. Even the mighty United have had a run of poor choices.

[Turkish]

45 minutes ago, leesaint88 said:

Regarding managerial appointments. I was listening to the 'no tippy tappy football' podcast that Sam Allardyce runs, he was speaking to the league managers association chairman Richard Bevan who says they often offer advice to clubs in terms of making the right choice with appointments, even offering experienced managers like Allardyce, David Pleat, Ferguson to sit in on interviews. It does make me wonder why our club hasn't bothered taking up the offer, surely with the high turnover of managers it suggests they don't..

Rasmus knows better than Alex Ferguson

[Harry_SFC]

I've heard that Spors rates Eckert very highly as a coach. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he got it. A good coach doesn't make a good manager, though..

Edited 1 hour ago by Harry_SFC

[Graziano94]

https://x.com/saintsextra/status/1986377897800601805?s=46

Tonda Eckert will take #Southampton into their next Championship game against #SheffieldWednesday, as the club consider him a potential candidate for the full-time job.

Edited 1 hour ago by Graziano94

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, Graziano94 said:

https://x.com/saintsextra/status/1986377897800601805?s=46

….

"consider him for the full time job"

This has to be a wind up, right?

[coalman]

7 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

"consider him for the full time job"

This has to be a wind up, right?

Of course. Sports Republic would never do something like that.

[trousers]

9 minutes ago, Graziano94 said:

https://x.com/saintsextra/status/1986377897800601805?s=46

Tonda Eckert will take #Southampton into their next Championship game against #SheffieldWednesday, as the club consider him a potential candidate for the full-time job.

 

7 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

"consider him for the full time job"

This has to be a wind up, right?

Of course it won't happen... Solak assured us that they'd learnt from their mistakes last season and one of those mistakes was giving the job to the caretaker manager. I, for one, trust Solak's word with every fibre in my body, so fret ye not folks...

#insolakwetrust

[OldNick]

Apparently he likes to play from the back and so Russball II, hence Bazunu and his passing out. Personally Im not convinced, playing the last 20 minutes with backs to the wall is not good for my health. We were edgy with both Jay and THB giving nedless corners away. 

[Saint Matty 76]

Would be putting a promising young coach in a big situation far too quickly, but nothing would surprise me with SR.

 

[sockeye]

13 minutes ago, Graziano94 said:

https://x.com/saintsextra/status/1986377897800601805?s=46

Tonda Eckert will take #Southampton into their next Championship game against #SheffieldWednesday, as the club consider him a potential candidate for the full-time job.

Because nobody else wants to come

[trousers]

3 minutes ago, sockeye said:

Because nobody else wants to come

Source?

[sockeye]

Just now, trousers said:

Source?

I don't have one, it's just my gut instinct. 

[Maggie May]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

That Frank Lampard seems to be doing well this season yet nobody on here (or very few) wanted him here last season. Let’s face it, unless you are a big enough club to attract the best, it is always going to be a bit of a lottery. Even the mighty United have had a run of poor choices.

 

[Wade Garrett]

1 hour ago, Miltonaggro said:

I get the feeling that another ‘left field’ choice is about to be made on behalf of SFC, or a former Sport Republic ‘hobby horse’, perhaps Carlos Corberan (after what looked like a wound up fluffer appearing on here last night) is about to be tapped up. What we absolutely need, as Le Tissier mooted earlier in the week, is a big personality, a character to impose on this group, better still an ex player with a pedigree that our basement superstars cannot bypass. Carrick and Gerrard are the type we need right now, but this Board seem to be allergic to senior english football people, a narcissistic inferiority complex or two, sitting at the big table no doubt. We are highly likely to be served up another continental dog’s breakfast as a result! 

Nutshell 👍🏼

[Jack]

1 hour ago, Saint86 said:

I don't think it’s that clear cut. Bazunu may make a mistake a game but he allows the team to play more expansively and further up the pitch. We're a better footballing side with him in it. 

If by that you mean we’re more capable of fucking about at the back until we don’t beat the press, and concede shit goals, then yeah maybe. I thought the appetite for that left with Russell Martin, but we saw a fair bit of that creeping in last night and wayyyy too much slow knocking it about between the back 5 and Flynn Downes, going nowhere, last night.
 

We know too well what happens when a half decent team identifies that and has a plan to take advantage. 

[Wade Garrett]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

That Frank Lampard seems to be doing well this season yet nobody on here (or very few) wanted him here last season. Let’s face it, unless you are a big enough club to attract the best, it is always going to be a bit of a lottery. Even the mighty United have had a run of poor choices.

I wanted him in the Summer.

[saintant]

12 hours ago, saintant said:

New manager is going to need to be a miracle worker to sort this mess out. Total shambles tonight even though we won.

I'll explain it for you Osvalderamo. We had a keeper who gifted them a goal almost gave them another and gave away a stupid corner by holding the ball for too long. Aside from two goals scored by good individual play rather than decent football we created next to nothing. When leading 2-1 we completely surrendered and allowed them to put in wave after wave of attacks with all 11 players back. All in all it was a shambles resulting in a lucky win. This sort of useless football will continue until we ditch the 3 centre back system. We had two wing backs who were really part of a flat back five and our two midfielders were more defensive than attack minded so 8 defensive players and only 3 offensive. Jander when he first came played on the half turn but now he's started to play with his back to the goal and knock simple short passes back the way they came. Yes, it's a shambles.

[saintant]

7 hours ago, qwertyell said:

You don't think there were mitigating circumstances for some of the selection decisions? Like, for example, there being no other credible options down the left than Manning, due to Welington being suspended and Jelert and Fraser injured.

Playing Fellows at RWB isn't ideal, but the only alternative is Roerslev who gives nothing going forward (and not much going backwards, frankly). 

Armstrong up front never works, but everyone else is injured or American. So what are you going to do? Someone's got to play there.

Bazunu over McCarthy is just a coin flip between a shit keeper who is okay with his feet and a shit keeper who isn't. Makes no real difference. 

I don't believe anyone seriously thought the new interim coach was about to spring a tactical revolution after working with the squad for two days. Sticking with broadly the same structure that they've been used to for months is a perfectly pragmatic short term approach: we need points coming in while the board figure out their next masterstroke appointment that will definitely herald the return of the good times.

To that end, Tonda got the job done, with an unbalanced squad riddled with injuries and their confidence on the floor. What's the point in bashing him for that? What else were you expecting?

 

Most of the points you make are resolved by starting with a flat back 4. The 3 centre backs and 'wing backs' is the problem.

[AlexLaw76]

3 minutes ago, saintant said:

I'll explain it for you Osvalderamo. We had a keeper who gifted them a goal almost gave them another and gave away a stupid corner by holding the ball for too long. Aside from two goals scored by good individual play rather than decent football we created next to nothing. When leading 2-1 we completely surrendered and allowed them to put in wave after wave of attacks with all 11 players back. All in all it was a shambles resulting in a lucky win. This sort of useless football will continue until we ditch the 3 centre back system. We had two wing backs who were really part of a flat back five and our two midfielders were more defensive than attack minded so 8 defensive players and only 3 offensive. Jander when he first came played on the half turn but now he's started to play with his back to the goal and knock simple short passes back the way they came. Yes, it's a shambles.

Agree. At times, the gap between the defence (which is about 7 or 8 players) and the forward 2 or 3, is huge....

[saintant]

2 hours ago, Saint86 said:

I don't think its that clear cut. Bazunu may make a mistake a game but he allows the team to play more expansively and further up the pitch. We're a better footballing side with him in it. And ultimately Macca also has mistakes in him and is a fucking car crash 1-1 and on dealing with high balls... we've been exposed to both a lot under Still. Macca is the better shot stopper though. I'd suggest it makes more sense to pick the keeper depending on who we're playing and how we intend to set up.

And lets not excuse the defending, the goal last night is being blamed on Baz, but stephens and particularly THB had that striker between the two of them, neither watching him, neither noticing him move, neither tracking the run, and neither defending the cross or anywhere near it to be in with any chance of intercepting it or clearing it. Its abysmal defending before its on the keeper as the striker should never have been left unmarked by two defenders that were notionally appearing to mark him ffs.

Some watch birds for a hobby Captain Jack watches balls. In both the trick is minimum movement.

[saintant]

42 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

I've heard that Spors rates Eckert very highly as a coach. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he got it. A good coach doesn't make a good manager, though..

He also rates Downs very highly as a footballer which is a worry.

[saintant]

31 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Apparently he likes to play from the back and so Russball II, hence Bazunu and his passing out. Personally Im not convinced, playing the last 20 minutes with backs to the wall is not good for my health. We were edgy with both Jay and THB giving nedless corners away. 

Our attempts to play out from the back last night were embarrassing. Slow and clumsy rather than quick and accurate.

[Matthew Le God]

46 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

I've heard that Spors rates Eckert very highly as a coach. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he got it. A good coach doesn't make a good manager, though..

Doesn't take insider knowledge to know if someone hires someone they likely think they are good.

Edited 40 minutes ago by Matthew Le God

[sadoldgit]

22 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

I wanted him in the Summer.

I am referring to the reaction on here to the fact that he was apparently in the frame.

[Suhari]

50 minutes ago, Graziano94 said:

https://x.com/saintsextra/status/1986377897800601805?s=46

Tonda Eckert will take #Southampton into their next Championship game against #SheffieldWednesday, as the club consider him a potential candidate for the full-time job.

Spors and SR can fuck right off with this idea.

We need experience, strength of character and someone who will have the respect of the dressing room - not another trendy, left-field effort.

Give Eckert the assistant role under someone more experienced by all means...but stop trying to be fucking clever.

[Saint Fan CaM]

As I’ve alluded to previously (OK, shouted), they’re not going to break the Group policy/system just for little ‘ol’ Southampton. They’ll be going for someone who’s willing to nurture the high possession, 5 at the back system that Ankerson wants to see at all SR clubs. Almost certainly why the SR ‘big dogs’ were at the game last night.

Welcome to your 4 year permanent Head Coach contract Tonda Eckert.

Edited 28 minutes ago by Saint Fan CaM

[tdmickey3]

56 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

"consider him for the full time job"

This has to be a wind up, right?

Probably not

[Saint86]

41 minutes ago, Jack said:

If by that you mean we’re more capable of fucking about at the back until we don’t beat the press, and concede shit goals, then yeah maybe. I thought the appetite for that left with Russell Martin, but we saw a fair bit of that creeping in last night and wayyyy too much slow knocking it about between the back 5 and Flynn Downes, going nowhere, last night.
 

We know too well what happens when a half decent team identifies that and has a plan to take advantage. 

I meant we can play a higher line as he can sweep and is far better with his feet and positionally, that we can drop deep with him and pass the ball to him (and not get a Macca newcastle-esq cock up like first game last season), and that his kicking is genuinely very good and can be used to launch counter attacks etc. These are all things Macca is significantly worse at.

If we're going to park the bus and just invite shots on goal, play Macca...

Either keeper is going to struggle with our CB's spontaneously deciding not to compete for headers or track runners, or react to rebounds etc., inside the 18yard box - we can't keep giving oppo attackers chances on a silver plate.

Edited 17 minutes ago by Saint86

[Pamplemousse]

Not got a problem with us leaking to the press that Eckert has a chance. 

I very much doubt though that we are intending to do so. It would be a huge gamble. Maybe in a year or two as an eventual successor.

[MarkSFC]

Tonda Ekert is clearly doing a good job with U21s and that is where he should stay. That group is vital to the club's squad and finances over the next 2-3 years. Some need to make the team, some need to generate funds. Moving Ekert to First team duties would be a gamble on two fronts, the first team performance and the development and performance of the U21s. Surely they're not that stupid😂🙏

Im hoping for someone with some sort ofdecent standing in tbe game. I like the idea of Marco Rose, Gerrard, maybe even Carrick. 

Mowbray until the summer would certainly keep us up but there are still plenty of points to allow us to get into the play-offs. 

We should look at someone who has a point to prove in their own career too, and who (in theory) will still be good if/when we get back up this time or the next. 

Now is the time to find someone who is happy to be here for 2 years+ on the basis everything goes well. 

Its never simple and I think that the stick SR get is a little unfair but to this point they are definitely in debit regarding their management choices. 

Statistically we should probabaly get the next one right😂