#Spygate

[Whitey Grandad]

33 minutes ago, saintant said:

As someone else said the texts could have been saved on the phone of Taylor who is possibly the whistle blower and the guy we sacked in December.

And who would be exposing himself to a massive legal claim.

[Nolan]

50 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

People need to stop following or sharing saintsextra, possibly less accurate than the Boro forums... They will reshare anything that gets hits.

As for this one, everyone knows the findings are expected today FFS.

This. This. This.

Saints extra could repost journalists, or directly link to newspapers or websites. 

They choose not to and instead editorialise and reword what was intended by the original reporter. 

They are the worst, most useless, type of account on social media.

[S-Clarke]

5 minutes ago, LegalEagle said:

The club including Tonda know more than we do about the case we’ve put forward. Tonda didn’t look like a man yesterday that fears he’s about to be sacked. He would have known yesterday if he was about to be booted. 

When they kept pressing Tonda in the press-interviews post/pre-boro, he said he really would like to say what's gone on and say a bit more - but he can't yet, and when he can he will say what's happened. That doesn't strike me as someone who is about to confirm he's orchestrated a massive footballing spy franchise.

Blown out of all proportion by the Boro lot is where I'm still sat, and which is why Saturday is happening. Not ITK, but there's no feasible way the EFL can stop this game now and change the opponent. 

[sadoldgit]

27 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

I don’t get why you keep banging on about this “longer it takes…” angle. The hearing was set for today, that’s it. You don’t just gather a group of legal people together for a hearing at the drop of a hat. This isn’t the duty solicitor dealing with a drunk on a Saturday night at Southampton nick.

Spot on. Today was given as the last day it was expected to happen so it looks like they couldn’t arrange it before. This isn’t the trial of the century, it is a tribunal which will look at submission from both sides and draw a conclusion. This isn’t something that takes days to deliberate over (although we have 😉).

They will then make their findings known to the EFL who will then decide upon the punishment if the club is found guilty.

Edited 2 hours ago by sadoldgit

[Whitey Grandad]

22 minutes ago, LGTL said:

Likewise. Are we saying that if he wasn’t in that photo, none of this ever happens? Bizarre. 

Or that Will Salt is not the culprit. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

28 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Right, prediction time.

whats going to be the fallout

We’re out. 
 

Boro V Hull up north next Tuesday or Weds, we get a fine which will cover EFL loses from moving it from Wembley. 
 

I just can’t see them ruling this wasn’t a separate competition from the league, in which case they’ll rule points deduction inapplicable.

[James G]

There's been a couple of provocative club X posts, I'm guessing we are confident going into the hearing

[saintant]

1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

We’re out. 
 

Boro V Hull up north next Tuesday or Weds, we get a fine which will cover EFL loses from moving it from Wembley. 
 

I just can’t see them ruling this wasn’t a separate competition from the league, in which case they’ll rule points deduction inapplicable.

Brave shout.

[suewhistle]

It could be a "rid me of this turbulent priest" scenario, but if it were "orchestrated" it all seems very amateurish, unless it's an advert for the capability of iphones?

[die Mannyschaft]

I think we will get removed from final only because its got to epic proportions with Middlesbrough having too much influence over EFL and the panel will not be impartial due to all the incorrect facts,  assumptions on Saints being such an organised spying outfit during season and applying football tactics to suit each team. 

Boro have too much power plus with other teams they influence like the clubs thet have named as been spied on.

The papers, media, pundits and Sky have had lots of time to present the case on behalf of Boro and anyone else that Saints shouldn't be in final. There is no counter news reports or anything from Saints. Its all very quiet on our side.

The 3 people on panel will be influenced by what the see and hear and its very unlikely they will just look at what extent the affect of spying was on Saints season or the 2 leg semi final.

The 2nd leg went ahead and Boro should have refused to play but they went ahead with it and that's now caused the who should be in final. 

[trousers]

27 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Still gotta beat Hull.

It'll be classic "Saintsy" to come through all this without being expelled, only to then lose the final... 

 

[Whitey Grandad]

14 minutes ago, Dman said:

They clearly used his bank details to get his name, linked that to a linked in profile and found the photo on the website for good measure. 

Then they're clearly guilty of a serious breach of Data Protection laws.

[egg]

10 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Prediction:

Fine of more than £2million

Some scouting restrictions, and ensuring correct internal training is in place.

Suspended points deduction of 3 points, reduced to 2 as we've cooperated.

I think that's optimistic. Double the points and fine, and I think it'll be thereabouts. 

People are underestimating how the panel will see this though. I think we'll have been kicked out if if were before the final, or even the second leg. 

[Toadhall Saint]

10 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

If it’s gone that high, they’ll kick us out. If Tonda is involved we’re toast. 

Tonda seemed to want to have his say in fact seemed frustrated that he couldn’t doesn’t smack me as someone who is guilty.

[saintant]

2 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Or that Will Salt is not the culprit. 

They took a photo of him stood by a tree on their training ground. Unless you're saying that was computer generated 🙂

[Dman]

8 minutes ago, benjii said:

No they didnt.

I beleive they did... That's how these things work innit?

[egg]

Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

Then they're clearly guilty of a serious breach of Data Protection laws.

I'm not sure that particularly matters tbh. The panel will be more interested in what's happened, not how Boro know what they know. In an inquisitorial ISH tribunal, the focus is on what's happened, not niceties around the evidence gathering process. 

[die Mannyschaft]

I think we will get removed from final only because its got to epic proportions with Middlesbrough having too much influence over EFL and the panel will not be impartial due to all the incorrect facts,  assumptions on Saints being such an organised spying outfit during season and applying football tactics to suit each team. 

Boro have too much power plus with other teams they influence like the clubs thet have named as been spied on.

The papers, media, pundits and Sky have had lots of time to present the case on behalf of Boro and anyone else that Saints shouldn't be in final. There is no counter news reports or anything from Saints. Its all very quiet on our side.

The 3 people on panel will be influenced by what the see and hear and its very unlikely they will just look at what extent the affect of spying was on Saints season or the 2 leg semi final.

The 2nd leg went ahead and Boro should have refused to play but they went ahead with it and that's now caused the who should be in final. 

[saintant]

2 minutes ago, die Mannyschaft said:

I think we will get removed from final only because its got to epic proportions with Middlesbrough having too much influence over EFL and the panel will not be impartial due to all the incorrect facts,  assumptions on Saints being such an organised spying outfit during season and applying football tactics to suit each team. 

Boro have too much power plus with other teams they influence like the clubs thet have named as been spied on.

The papers, media, pundits and Sky have had lots of time to present the case on behalf of Boro and anyone else that Saints shouldn't be in final. There is no counter news reports or anything from Saints. Its all very quiet on our side.

The 3 people on panel will be influenced by what the see and hear and its very unlikely they will just look at what extent the affect of spying was on Saints season or the 2 leg semi final.

The 2nd leg went ahead and Boro should have refused to play but they went ahead with it and that's now caused the who should be in final. 

May have missed it but I haven't heard or read any other team officially stating we spied on them.

[benjii]

28 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

I don’t get why you keep banging on about this “longer it takes…” angle. The hearing was set for today, that’s it. You don’t just gather a group of legal people together for a hearing at the drop of a hat. This isn’t the duty solicitor dealing with a drunk on a Saturday night at Southampton nick.

Agreed.

We were charged 11 days ago, so wouldn't have started looking at the case against us until 10 days ago.

We had  a big match 7 days ago, so probably didn’t give any detailed response until less than a week ago. 

Meanwhile, the commission has to be set up (checking diaries etc) then consider both sets of submissions, then deliberate. 

The idea that this has been a long process is not correct, IMO.

 

[DellBlockH]

2 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

We’re out. 
 

Boro V Hull up north next Tuesday or Weds, we get a fine which will cover EFL loses from moving it from Wembley. 
 

I just can’t see them ruling this wasn’t a separate competition from the league, in which case they’ll rule points deduction inapplicable.

This is the most bizarre post so far on here, despite stiff competition. So we go out and compensate Wembley (and presumably all the suppliers, caterers etc). And then, miraculously, there's a ground "up north" all ready and willing to take on a new fixture at a week's notice. The pitch will be prepared, the caterers will have stocked up. Oh, and the local police have cancelled leave and added a whole new event to their schedule.

Honestly.

[Zorba]

What’s with all the Negative Nellys this morning? This time next week we’ll be in the Premier League! Cheer up!

[die Mannyschaft]

I think we will get removed from final only because its got to epic proportions with Middlesbrough having too much influence over EFL and the panel will not be impartial due to all the incorrect facts,  assumptions on Saints being such an organised spying outfit during season and applying football tactics to suit each team. 

Boro have too much power plus with other teams they influence like the clubs thet have named as been spied on.

The papers, media, pundits and Sky have had lots of time to present the case on behalf of Boro and anyone else that Saints shouldn't be in final. There is no counter news reports or anything from Saints. Its all very quiet on our side.

The 3 people on panel will be influenced by what the see and hear and its very unlikely they will just look at what extent the affect of spying was on Saints season or the 2 leg semi final.

The 2nd leg went ahead and Boro should have refused to play but they went ahead with it and that's now caused the who should be in final. 

[Dman]

5 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

We’re out. 
 

Boro V Hull up north next Tuesday or Weds, we get a fine which will cover EFL loses from moving it from Wembley. 
 

I just can’t see them ruling this wasn’t a separate competition from the league, in which case they’ll rule points deduction inapplicable.

There is no way in hell they'll get through an appeal process in time for a game to be played on tuesday or wednesday. 

[die Mannyschaft]

I think we will get removed from final only because its got to epic proportions with Middlesbrough having too much influence over EFL and the panel will not be impartial due to all the incorrect facts,  assumptions on Saints being such an organised spying outfit during season and applying football tactics to suit each team. 

Boro have too much power plus with other teams they influence like the clubs thet have named as been spied on.

The papers, media, pundits and Sky have had lots of time to present the case on behalf of Boro and anyone else that Saints shouldn't be in final. There is no counter news reports or anything from Saints. Its all very quiet on our side.

The 3 people on panel will be influenced by what the see and hear and its very unlikely they will just look at what extent the affect of spying was on Saints season or the 2 leg semi final.

The 2nd leg went ahead and Boro should have refused to play but they went ahead with it and that's now caused the who should be in final. 

[Turkish]

37 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Right, prediction time.

whats going to be the fallout

my views - it will be determine that in the balance of probabilities this was more than just a lone wolf and a more orchestrated thing, possible relating to the manager or Spors.

We will not be contesting the playoff final. Whether Boro are or not is another matter 

Big fine

Suspended points deduction 

heads rolling inside club for those who involved 

allowed to play 

[goodymatt]

Just now, die Mannyschaft said:

I think we will get removed from final only because its got to epic proportions with Middlesbrough having too much influence over EFL and the panel will not be impartial due to all the incorrect facts,  assumptions on Saints being such an organised spying outfit during season and applying football tactics to suit each team. 

Boro have too much power plus with other teams they influence like the clubs thet have named as been spied on.

The papers, media, pundits and Sky have had lots of time to present the case on behalf of Boro and anyone else that Saints shouldn't be in final. There is no counter news reports or anything from Saints. Its all very quiet on our side.

The 3 people on panel will be influenced by what the see and hear and its very unlikely they will just look at what extent the affect of spying was on Saints season or the 2 leg semi final.

The 2nd leg went ahead and Boro should have refused to play but they went ahead with it and that's now caused the who should be in final. 

Sorry, could you repeat that please?

[sadoldgit]

Jesus Christ there are some pathetic posts on here. Go back and look at the picture again. This is no professional deep seated spying operation. For God’s sake get some perspective.

[Saint_clark]

Just now, die Mannyschaft said:

I think we will get removed from final only because its got to epic proportions with Middlesbrough having too much influence over EFL and the panel will not be impartial due to all the incorrect facts,  assumptions on Saints being such an organised spying outfit during season and applying football tactics to suit each team. 

Boro have too much power plus with other teams they influence like the clubs thet have named as been spied on.

The papers, media, pundits and Sky have had lots of time to present the case on behalf of Boro and anyone else that Saints shouldn't be in final. There is no counter news reports or anything from Saints. Its all very quiet on our side.

The 3 people on panel will be influenced by what the see and hear and its very unlikely they will just look at what extent the affect of spying was on Saints season or the 2 leg semi final.

The 2nd leg went ahead and Boro should have refused to play but they went ahead with it and that's now caused the who should be in final. 

 @Jimmy_D can we delete these please, we only need to read it once it's been posted multiple times. 

[Zorba]

Just now, die Mannyschaft said:

I think we will get removed from final only because its got to epic proportions with Middlesbrough having too much influence over EFL and the panel will not be impartial due to all the incorrect facts,  assumptions on Saints being such an organised spying outfit during season and applying football tactics to suit each team. 

Boro have too much power plus with other teams they influence like the clubs thet have named as been spied on.

The papers, media, pundits and Sky have had lots of time to present the case on behalf of Boro and anyone else that Saints shouldn't be in final. There is no counter news reports or anything from Saints. Its all very quiet on our side.

The 3 people on panel will be influenced by what the see and hear and its very unlikely they will just look at what extent the affect of spying was on Saints season or the 2 leg semi final.

The 2nd leg went ahead and Boro should have refused to play but they went ahead with it and that's now caused the who should be in final. 

Say it again…

[leeham_69]

1 minute ago, egg said:

I'm not sure that particularly matters tbh. The panel will be more interested in what's happened, not how Boro know what they know. In an inquisitorial ISH tribunal, the focus is on what's happened, not niceties around the evidence gathering process. 

i think it would be funny to ignore the niceties around the evidence gathering process when the hearing is about breaching the niceties around our on field evidence gathering process 😆

[trousers]

9 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

We’re out. 
 

Boro V Hull up north next Tuesday or Weds, we get a fine which will cover EFL loses from moving it from Wembley. 
 

I just can’t see them ruling this wasn’t a separate competition from the league, in which case they’ll rule points deduction inapplicable.

This is certainly the best prediction 'tactic'...

If you're right, you get to play your "told you so" card

If you're wrong you get to play your "glad I was proven wrong" card

You only get to play one of those cards if you predict that we won't be thrown out, so the glass half full approach is definitely the clever way to go...

Edited 2 hours ago by trousers

[SNSUN]

2 minutes ago, trousers said:

It'll be classic "Saintsy" to come through all this without being expelled, only to then lose the final... 

 

After all this I would not begrudge Hull a victory and would be first in line to praise them. Of course they'll be royally spanked next season but at least they'd help their finances. 

[SNSUN]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Big fine

Suspended points deduction 

heads rolling inside club for those who involved 

allowed to play 

So you're saying we will, in fact, remain unbeaten.

[saintant]

2 minutes ago, die Mannyschaft said:

I think we will get removed from final only because its got to epic proportions with Middlesbrough having too much influence over EFL and the panel will not be impartial due to all the incorrect facts,  assumptions on Saints being such an organised spying outfit during season and applying football tactics to suit each team. 

Boro have too much power plus with other teams they influence like the clubs thet have named as been spied on.

The papers, media, pundits and Sky have had lots of time to present the case on behalf of Boro and anyone else that Saints shouldn't be in final. There is no counter news reports or anything from Saints. Its all very quiet on our side.

The 3 people on panel will be influenced by what the see and hear and its very unlikely they will just look at what extent the affect of spying was on Saints season or the 2 leg semi final.

The 2nd leg went ahead and Boro should have refused to play but they went ahead with it and that's now caused the who should be in final. 

You're starting to repeat yourself now. Never a good sign.

[egg]

Just now, leeham_69 said:

i think it would be funny to ignore the niceties around the evidence gathering process when the hearing is about breaching the niceties around our on field evidence gathering process 😆

Err, no. 

There's no niceties involved in spying in breach of a clear rule prior to a massive game. The panel will be interested in that,  not how Boro got the picture or name. 

[LegalEagle]

5 minutes ago, die Mannyschaft said:

I think we will get removed from final only because its got to epic proportions with Middlesbrough having too much influence over EFL and the panel will not be impartial due to all the incorrect facts,  assumptions on Saints being such an organised spying outfit during season and applying football tactics to suit each team. 

Boro have too much power plus with other teams they influence like the clubs thet have named as been spied on.

The papers, media, pundits and Sky have had lots of time to present the case on behalf of Boro and anyone else that Saints shouldn't be in final. There is no counter news reports or anything from Saints. Its all very quiet on our side.

The 3 people on panel will be influenced by what the see and hear and its very unlikely they will just look at what extent the affect of spying was on Saints season or the 2 leg semi final.

The 2nd leg went ahead and Boro should have refused to play but they went ahead with it and that's now caused the who should be in final. 

This is a KC chairing this. Not some muppet from your local boozer. You try to unduly influence these guys - and I know quite a few - they will go in the opposite direction. They don’t take too kindly to being leaned on.

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, saintant said:

They took a photo of him stood by a tree on their training ground. Unless you're saying that was computer generated 🙂

A photo of somebody who looks a bit like him. His face is partly obscured. Is that really the best picture they've got? Do you think they're the same person? They might be, but you'd need more evidence than just a passing similarity. An admission from the person himself or his employer for example. Or a former colleague and friend who knew he was there.

[Viking Saint]

8 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

We’re out. 
 

Boro V Hull up north next Tuesday or Weds, we get a fine which will cover EFL loses from moving it from Wembley. 
 

I just can’t see them ruling this wasn’t a separate competition from the league, in which case they’ll rule points deduction inapplicable.

Can't see any way whatsoever that there will not be a game on at Wembley this Saturday. There is way too much logistical and financial involvement.

[Toadhall Saint]

3 minutes ago, die Mannyschaft said:

I think we will get removed from final only because its got to epic proportions with Middlesbrough having too much influence over EFL and the panel will not be impartial due to all the incorrect facts,  assumptions on Saints being such an organised spying outfit during season and applying football tactics to suit each team. 

Boro have too much power plus with other teams they influence like the clubs thet have named as been spied on.

The papers, media, pundits and Sky have had lots of time to present the case on behalf of Boro and anyone else that Saints shouldn't be in final. There is no counter news reports or anything from Saints. Its all very quiet on our side.

The 3 people on panel will be influenced by what the see and hear and its very unlikely they will just look at what extent the affect of spying was on Saints season or the 2 leg semi final.

The 2nd leg went ahead and Boro should have refused to play but they went ahead with it and that's now caused the who should be in final. 

Why keep repeating yourself - doesn’t make it more valid 😉

[leeham_69]

1 minute ago, egg said:

Err, no. 

There's no niceties involved in spying in breach of a clear rule prior to a massive game. The panel will be interested in that,  not how Boro got the picture or name. 

it was just a gag eggy

[Mozz]

5 minutes ago, Dman said:

There is no way in hell they'll get through an appeal process in time for a game to be played on tuesday or wednesday. 

The BBC's article this morning contains "Only the EFL or Southampton can appeal, which would be heard by an Independent League Arbitration panel with three new members.  An appeal should be held within 14 days, but the EFL is expected to ask for a resolution by Friday."

Edited 2 hours ago by Mozz

[sadoldgit]

3 minutes ago, die Mannyschaft said:

I think we will get removed from final only because its got to epic proportions with Middlesbrough having too much influence over EFL and the panel will not be impartial due to all the incorrect facts,  assumptions on Saints being such an organised spying outfit during season and applying football tactics to suit each team. 

Boro have too much power plus with other teams they influence like the clubs thet have named as been spied on.

The papers, media, pundits and Sky have had lots of time to present the case on behalf of Boro and anyone else that Saints shouldn't be in final. There is no counter news reports or anything from Saints. Its all very quiet on our side.

The 3 people on panel will be influenced by what the see and hear and its very unlikely they will just look at what extent the affect of spying was on Saints season or the 2 leg semi final.

The 2nd leg went ahead and Boro should have refused to play but they went ahead with it and that's now caused the who should be in final. 

The people on the panel are professionals who will look at the case and make a decision based on the evidence. Have you considered the fact that we have been “quite” because we are happy to let the facts speak for themselves? Blimey mate, man up!

[egg]

Just now, leeham_69 said:

it was just a gag eggy

👍 Sorry mate, I've got a sense of humour bypass now on this issue. 

[Dman]

I think we will get removed from final only because its got to epic proportions with Middlesbrough having too much influence over EFL and the panel will not be impartial due to all the incorrect facts,  assumptions on Saints being such an organised spying outfit during season and applying football tactics to suit each team. 

Boro have too much power plus with other teams they influence like the clubs thet have named as been spied on.

The papers, media, pundits and Sky have had lots of time to present the case on behalf of Boro and anyone else that Saints shouldn't be in final. There is no counter news reports or anything from Saints. Its all very quiet on our side.

The 3 people on panel will be influenced by what the see and hear and its very unlikely they will just look at what extent the affect of spying was on Saints season or the 2 leg semi final.

The 2nd leg went ahead and Boro should have refused to play but they went ahead with it and that's now caused the who should be in final.

[Osvaldorama]

2 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

After all this I would not begrudge Hull a victory and would be first in line to praise them. Of course they'll be royally spanked next season but at least they'd help their finances. 

What’s funny is they are under a transfer embargo for breaking an even more serious rule than the one we broke 😂. Yet Boro fans are all out in force saying they hope hull win 

[Pancake]

£10m fine and Hull go up. Just my guess

[Saint86]

10 minutes ago, saintant said:

Brave shout.

Proper Captain material.

[saintant]

2 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

A photo of somebody who looks a bit like him. His face is partly obscured. Is that really the best picture they've got? Do you think they're the same person? They might be, but you'd need more evidence than just a passing similarity. An admission from the person himself or his employer for example. Or a former colleague and friend who knew he was there.

Yes, I think Will Salt is the guy in the photo. I'd be absolutely astonished if it's not him.

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

So you're saying we will, in fact, remain unbeaten.

The only thing that can beat us is ourselves