The Spygate Saga - 6 Week ban suspended for Eckert

[swedish dave]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

"Played for them once" but he was with them for an extended period, at least half a season. 

and doubtless made friends there. IF it was that long ago ? ..Boro were likely still at Ayresome Park?..

[Secret Site Agent]

19 hours ago, Paul Chuckle said:

Sky Sports News reporter just said he'd spoken to a number of managers in the EFL who felt exclusion from the Playoffs was a harsh punishment. I thought Neil Harris said all 71 managers in the EFL wanted Tonda banned? 

It seems that when the Spying was announced, a lot of teams, pundits, talking heads and especially the media were clutching their pearls and saying, quite rightly, that this was a despicable act.

When we were thrown out of the Playoff, and LARGE PROPORTION came out and said the punishment was harsh, some even saying it was TOO harsh and didn't fit the crime.

So Niel Harris was full of shit.

Now we wait to see what their opinion of Tonda's punishment is.

[bpsaint]

17 minutes ago, 23rdSaint said:

Just to be clear, Simon Jordan isn't a friend of ours (he's a professional contrarian who clearly hasn't read the full findings) but this is interesting regardless. Interesting bits about his mate Gibbo: 

 

Decent from Jordan again TBH. One of the few in the media that seems to have a sensible head on things regarding Tonda’s punishment.

[saintant]

1 hour ago, jrobsbigshorts said:

I'm sure I would be privately but given the appeal commission reduced the FAs ban which the FA could still appeal based on Tonda's remorse and regret it makes me nervous when Dragan comes out with this stuff at this point, seems reckless to me, but fair play he got it right backing Tonda

Not sure this is true - didn't the independent panel come to their own conclusion of a fair and just punishment? I don't think they actually reduced the FAs proposed length of ban.

[benjii]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

"Played for them once" but he was with them for an extended period, at least half a season. 

Yeah, the number of appearances is irrelevant. Of all the people who could have sat on the panel, there were any number with no prior connection to either club who would have been a better choice.

[whelk]

The Sun and Mail journalists on SSN last night back pages thing both agreed that punishment was suitable. Imagine if they had those couple of cunts Burt and Winter?

[Secret Site Agent]

I think the Media and all of these pundits and AI generated click bait on YouTUbe are forgetting one thing.

Southampton isn't guilty of spying.

They are guilty of spying within the 72 hour window.

It is perfectly legal to do it outside the 72 hour window, and in the Premiership, and in Germany and Italy.

"Man Caught Speeding on the M27" is a better headline than "Man Caught doing 54 MPH on the M27 when a speed reduction was in force to 50 mph" Doesn't quite cut the same impact.

 

[skintsaint]

15 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

Decent from Jordan again TBH. One of the few in the media that seems to have a sensible head on things regarding Tonda’s punishment.

Yep, but don't agree with him saying that we were spying on an industrial scale though.

[Saint86]

37 minutes ago, 23rdSaint said:

Just to be clear, Simon Jordan isn't a friend of ours (he's a professional contrarian who clearly hasn't read the full findings) but this is interesting regardless. Interesting bits about his mate Gibbo: 

 

Appreciate the share on that one 23rd! Simon Jordan has by and large spoke a lot of sense over the whole thing - i think more than perhaps anyone else - and he largely stepped outside of the orchestrate media campaign that was whipped up against saints.

[bpsaint]

20 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Yep, but don't agree with him saying that we were spying on an industrial scale though.

True, perhaps the wrong terminology was used there, I took it as we were probably doing it to every opponent, not just the 3 that we admitted to - one of which the “spy” disguised himself as an Eastleigh FC member of staff.

Edited 3 hours ago by bpsaint

[Forester]

14 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

Think Eckert would receive a harsher punishment in that instance. It's pretty clear from the report that the EFL punishment and Eckerts contrition are the two main factors for reduction and suspension. 

Think the idea that todays ruling is a bad reflection the EFL ruling is a wrong one in that sense. FA had two things the EFL didn't, a previous punishment and the time to interview Eckert a few months on whilst he's reflected, shown remorse and worked on his understanding.

While factually correct, the “time” point skips past the fact that an inappropriate timetable was rammed through by EFL

[Jimmy_D]

3 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

True, perhaps the wrong terminology was used there, I took it as we were probably doing it to every opponent, not just the 3 that we admitted to - one of which the “spy” disguised himself as an Eastleigh FC member of staff.

If you read the FA report, looks like the Eastleigh one just didn't happen. Eckert was offered CCTV and accepted it after training had happened there apparently.

[OneMrsWallace]

15 hours ago, There when Franny scored said:

Having read the written reasons they are a real vindication for Tonda:

- did not pressure anyone 

- did not know that spying was against specific rules 

- no systemic spying 

I also agree with the poster above that para. 114 is a back-hander to the EFL, I.e. that they went against the precedent in FA v Klopp that deterrence cannot result in disproportionality.

Another one is at para. 34 where they appear to take issue with the lack of cross examination of a witness “seemingly because of the pressure of time.”

These written reasons seriously undermine the EFL decisions in my view and demonstrate that the ridiculously short timescale of those not one but two arbitrations resulted in procedural unfairness and did not provide us with sufficient opportunity to present our case. 
 

i haven’t seen anything that suggests we’re pursuing a section 68 challenge under the Arbitration Act, it would be interesting to know why not. In particular, it appears that this panel considered a lot more evidence, over 1000 pages (and 187 pages of transcript). These written reasons are also much more cautious in stating the weight given to the evidence, noting specific instances of cross examination and where the FA chose not to adduce evidence, something that was notably lacking in the EFL decisions. Something that a high court judge considered made the decisions unsafe - https://www.insideworldfootball.com/2026/05/26/op-ed-sir-nicholas-mostyn-kc-soutampton-fc-admiral-byng-is-shot-again/

Ultimately, the FA relied heavily on the evidence in the EFL decisions, this panel chose to reject a lot of that. 

That's really interesting. Goes against some key reasons why the EFL went so hard on us. I'm with the view that in years to come evidence will come out of seriously dodgy behaviour by the EFL and their crony matres. The panel was organised and led by a company listed as a supplier to the EFL for goodness sake. 

[egg]

2 hours ago, trousers said:

You and I will probably disagree on that until the end of time...

But it's a fact. We offered no alternative sporting sanction to the expulsion. EFL cup ban if we went up, points if we didn't, were both alternative sporting sanctions, but they weren't offered up if a fine wasn't deemed appropriate.

When the only sporting sanction option for the panel to consider was expulsion, there's literally nothing else on the table. 

It was an appalling approach by the club. 

[suewhistle]

3 hours ago, 23rdSaint said:

Don't worry. Our fearless leader's already on the case with more likes that Winter's tweet:

To avoid going on Tw*tter, did Steve Grant get a reply from the Tw*tter-in-chief?

[bpsaint]

26 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said:

If you read the FA report, looks like the Eastleigh one just didn't happen. Eckert was offered CCTV and accepted it after training had happened there apparently.

Oh really? I thought that came out in the EFL investigation?

[Secret Site Agent]

3 hours ago, 23rdSaint said:

Don't worry. Our fearless leader's already on the case with more likes that Winter's tweet:

 

Steve Grant giving it plenty to Henry on Twitter with just two words.

And plenty of support for Steve as well in the comments

As well as Starlink Broadband for £40 a month.

 

[Toadhall Saint]

Looks like there is a Tonda press conference on at 3pm today that’s live on sky

[Jimmy_D]

24 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

Oh really? I thought that came out in the EFL investigation?

https://www.thefa.com/-/media/files/thefaportal/governance-docs/discipline-cases/2026-27/the-fa-v-tonda-eckert.ashx

Bottom of page 7.

[revolution saint]

45 minutes ago, suewhistle said:

To avoid going on Tw*tter, did Steve Grant get a reply from the Tw*tter-in-chief?

I personally quite like Henry Winter a lot.  In fact I think so much of him that I'd like the club to present him some kind of award for journalism and present it to him on the pitch at half time on Sunday.  Could have the scoreboards showing some of his best journalism as we presented it to him and it'll give the crowd the opportunity to join in the celebration.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

5 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

What more suffering would he consider acceptable?

A ghastly away shirt to wear as punishment...nope, done that.

[Sunnyside Saint]

20 hours ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Can't help but think Man City's transgressions and all the recent news surrounding their potential punishments has also come at a good time for us. Appreciate this was against an individual and not the club, but it puts things in to perspective - something the EFL failed to do. 

Its also highlighted that the FA appreciated Tonda's cooperation and contrition, something that is glaringly absent in the City case.

[trousers]

 

 

[trousers]

15 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Looks like there is a Tonda press conference on at 3pm today that’s live on sky

Ha... Gotta love the mainstream media taking an interest in our press conferences when it suits them...

[trousers]

1 hour ago, egg said:

But it's a fact. We offered no alternative sporting sanction to the expulsion. EFL cup ban if we went up, points if we didn't, were both alternative sporting sanctions, but they weren't offered up if a fine wasn't deemed appropriate.

When the only sporting sanction option for the panel to consider was expulsion, there's literally nothing else on the table. 

It was an appalling approach by the club. 

I'm confused (easily done)... Why was it exclusively down to us to "offer" an alternative sporting sanction? What was stopping the EFL considering an alternative to outright expulsion themselves?

I don't really have the appetite to go around this circle yet again, but I'm content with my point of view that the EFL could have decided that forfeiting the first leg 3-0 (for example) was a viable and proportionate alternative sporting sanction...

Edited 1 hour ago by trousers

[trousers]

 

 

[Saint86]

He can't just be good at his job... no no... he HAS to be a cheat... the mental gymnastics of that lot will never not amaze me 😄

Edited 1 hour ago by Saint86

[saintant]

13 minutes ago, trousers said:

 

 

Yeah Kim, everyone's entitled to a second chance - unfortunately, you blew yours big time 🙂

[qwertyell]

Honestly, who gives two shits what anyone else thinks now? We've had our time in the barrel, but it's done. 

Leave them to wallow in their own misery while we crack on.

[LordHester]

26 minutes ago, trousers said:

I'm confused (easily done)... Why was it exclusively down to us to "offer" an alternative sporting sanction? What was stopping the EFL considering an alternative to outright expulsion themselves?

Yeah, I'm with you on this one; I don't know how many cases in which it's for the defendant to offer up a range of punishments from which to choose. 

[Toadhall Saint]

40 minutes ago, trousers said:

Ha... Gotta love the mainstream media taking an interest in our press conferences when it suits them...

yep looks like its being streamed on the beeb as well

[Harry_SFC]

53 minutes ago, trousers said:

 

 

Tbf to him he's been ok throughout this whole thing. Their fans and media though... Jesus. Absolute weapons. 

[egg]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

I'm confused (easily done)... Why was it exclusively down to us to "offer" an alternative sporting sanction? What was stopping the EFL considering an alternative to outright expulsion themselves?

I don't really have the appetite to go around this circle yet again, but I'm content with my point of view that the EFL could have decided that forfeiting the first leg 3-0 (for example) was a viable and proportionate alternative sporting sanction...

I'm not sure why there's confusion.

The panel were tasked with punishment. This was a sporting offence and a sporting penalty was obvious. 

The EFL were batting for a particular punishment. Our role was to argue for an alternative. The only alternative we offered was monetary. 

There's no circle to go around. Simply, we were staring down the barrel of a sporting penalty and didn't give the panel an alternative sporting penalty to consider. Our legal team job was to sell an alternative to the panel, but didn't. 

I'm confused about the confusion over something very simple. 

 

[VectisSaint]

The outcome of the FA investigation and the independent commission's report and sanctions, actually makes a lot more sense the more you look into it and after (skim) reading the documented reasons. In the end the Commission decided that Tonda (himself) actually did very little wrong; they specifically dismissed the idea that the EFL had come up with, that he had coerced or bullied junior staff (for which the Club received a reprimand from the EFL, something that tends to get forgotten, it was the 3rd part of the punishment, after expulsion from play-offs and points deduction). They found no evidence to support this, or at least dismissed the sketchy evidence of the EFL enquiry. So, this left the 3 "spying" related events, none of which we need to be reminded Tonda was directly involved in. (1) the most serious, Middlesbro, he asked someone to find out if Hayden (?) was training or not, he did not ask for a video of their training or any update on tactics, really the analyst could have just taken a look and messaged back "yes, he's training", no one would have been caught filming or spying. the analyst clearly overstepped the mark, with good intentions no doubt. (2) Ipswich, Tonda appears not to have been involved at all, but when he was offered the chance to view the video he agreed to view it, and dismissed it swiftly as of no use anyway (because they had finished preparations for the game). (3) Oxford, which was very soon after he got the job, he simply wanted to know whether they were training with 4 or 5 at the back because the new manager had taken over. So there is really very little evidence that Tonda himself did much at all, but being a good manager (small m) he has effectively taken the blame on himself to protect his staff, as any good man manager would do, and I suspect he has also taken the blame to protect his "superiors", who frankly must have known what was going on and should have done what Tonda did and taken the blame.

So, in summary most of what was done wrong was done by "the club", either by omission (not ensuring Eckert was aware of rules for instance) or by junior staff working off their own initiative. The Club have (justifiably) been punished, and maybe heavily so. My view is that that is where the blame lies for 95% of what happened, the Club not Tonda himself, and therefore the punishment from the FA (or the Commission) is justifiably "lenient", notwithstanding that the supporters, the players and the Club had been punished enough, there was no justification for throwing Eckert under the bus with a long ban that would have ended his career at the Football Club. 

It may have taken a long time to get here but it seems like the right outcome. I don't think we were lucky, I think its the logical outcome of a fair process by the FA, and it seems the Commission have serious doubts about how the EFL conducted their process, maybe that will have legs in the future, but we will probably never know. Pretty sure the FA won't appeal the judgement or sanction.

Now, all that remains, stuff the Skates on Sunday.

[trousers]

32 minutes ago, egg said:

I'm not sure why there's confusion.

The panel were tasked with punishment. This was a sporting offence and a sporting penalty was obvious. 

The EFL were batting for a particular punishment. Our role was to argue for an alternative. The only alternative we offered was monetary. 

There's no circle to go around. Simply, we were staring down the barrel of a sporting penalty and didn't give the panel an alternative sporting penalty to consider. Our legal team job was to sell an alternative to the panel, but didn't. 

I'm confused about the confusion over something very simple. 

 

Fair enough. The point I'm trying to make is that there was more than one possible sporting sanction available. The fact that the EFL chose to only go with one of the options is missing my point, as some people seem to be suggesting they didn't have a choice in the first place... Anyway, will leave it there 👍🏻

Edited 15 minutes ago by trousers

[Nordic Saint]

Following Tonda's press conference, I see Blackmore and MacAnuff are still sticking their oar in on the BBC Sport website.

"Eckert is lucky" Blackmore

"I cannot understand the verdict" MacAnuff

Spygate scandal: Tonda Eckert speaks after suspended ban - BBC Sport

Edited 23 minutes ago by Nordic Saint

[Toadhall Saint]

2 minutes ago, Nordic Saint said:

Following Tonda's press conference, I see Blackmore and MacAnuff are still sticking their oar in on the BBC Sport website.

"Eckert is lucky" Blackmore

"I cannot understand the verdict" MacAnuff

Spygate scandal: Tonda Eckert speaks after suspended ban - BBC Sport

I think those quotes are from yesterday. I'm assuming neither had read the full judgement (no surprise with JM but not good enough [again] from Blackmoor).

[LiberalCommunist]

None of this feels lucky. It's been horrendous. The last part of the punishment doesn't even feel like a let off because of how long it took to reach the verdict. I just want to put this whole sorry affair behind me now. Its been horrendous. 

I'm glad we stuck with him. He's not perfect, but he was worth fighting for. Now he can fight for us.