Should Saints sack Tonda?

[Dark Munster]

Title says it all. Seems opinions are split, from he's the devil incarnate, to a manager we don't want to lose committing a minor infraction resulting in a massively disproportionate penalty.

Edited 3 hours ago by Dark Munster

[Cascadia Saint]

Yes. This whole thing is so fucking stupid.

[trousers]

Yeah, probably....

[Sheaf Saint]

If SR care about rebuilding the club's reputation, they simply have to. And soon.

Waiting for the inevitable ban he will get from the FA and saying "we had no choice" won't wash.

[CSA96]

Yes and it shouldn't stop with Tonda. The club needs to tidy up its reputation, firstly with its own fans and secondly within football, and that can't happen if there's a culture of just letting all of the amateurish stuff continue on with a shrug

Edited 2 hours ago by CSA96

[bangkoksaint]

Yes. Not saying he may be a talented manager but there is no way back for him from this. Potentially set the club back years. I appreciate football rewards failure but in what corporate world could you potentially cost your business £200M through total stupidity,  arrogance and amateurism and expect to stay?

[AlexLaw76]

Well, yes of course

he is central to being kicked out of a playoff final. That is unforgivable 

[sfc4prem]

7 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Well, yes of course

he is central to being kicked out of a playoff final. That is unforgivable 

No.

He was central to us getting into a position where automatic promotion was a real possibility.

His misdemeanours are thus rather forgivable.

[woodsaint1]

If its true that he insisted on us spying even after being warned that it was against the rules, then yes he is unhinged and needs sacked

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, sfc4prem said:

No.

He was central to us getting into a position where automatic promotion was a real possibility.

His misdemeanours are thus rather forgivable.

He was central to being kicked out, that is true. 

They are not misdemeanours, they got us kicked out of a £200m game. People will now lose their jobs over it.

Edited 2 hours ago by AlexLaw76

[Pamplemousse]

Yes, and it should have already been done

 

[SNSUN]

7 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Well, yes of course

he is central to being kicked out of a playoff final. That is unforgivable 

It's a no brainer. His reputation has been ruined. Sure he's done well for us, the first manager we've had that gave us some positivity since Ralph (I'm excluding Russ because he's a prick) which is why people might want to keep him, and he seems to wind up opposition fans who think he's an alien but he cost us promotion and for that he must go.

The FA will probably eliminate him anyway. 

[sfc4prem]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

He was central to being kicked out, that is true. 

They are not misdemeanours, they got us kicked out of a £200m game. People will now lose their jobs over it.

The £200m game that his tactics and player management got us into the position of playing.

[Golac's Iron Gonads]

Don't care about the club's reputation , don't care about the cheating (players do it all bloody game) do care about getting caught and being so inept at it. The club don't need to regain my trust as they've not had it since sometime in the 90s (around when they bought in 'membership fees' and at one end of season game told us not to run on the pitch as the players would be doing a lap of honour, which of course they didn't they just appeared in the directors box to wave)

What I do care about is my team winning games, playing  football that's enjoyable to watch and having players that I don't actively dislike. I voted for Tonda to stay and he'd have to commit an arrestable offence for me to want him to leave, even then it'd have to be something pretty serious.

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, sfc4prem said:

The £200m game that his tactics and player management got us into the position of playing.

and cheating of course.

[sfc4prem]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

and cheating of course.

Absolutely. Little bit of rule-breaking never went amiss.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, sfc4prem said:

Absolutely. Little bit of rule-breaking never went amiss.

it does, people will lose their jobs.

Each to their own. 

I suspect if he is not sacked very soon, any FA investigation will mean he wont be our manager in the not too distant future, thankfully

[sfc4prem]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

it does, people will lose their jobs.

Each to their own. 

I suspect if he is not sacked very soon, any FA investigation will mean he wont be our manager in the not too distant future, thankfully

Fair enough. I'll never agree with you on this. Least we've discussed things amicably, I guess.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, sfc4prem said:

Fair enough. I'll never agree with you on this. Least we've discussed things amicably, I guess.

Shut your hole you fucking loon.....

🤐 😉

[MB]

I want Parsons gone more but yes it’s an inevitability 

[Colinjb]

The short term benefit he brought is nothing compared to the generational damage that will result from his approach.

Such a pity. 

[SNSUN]

5 minutes ago, sfc4prem said:

The £200m game that his tactics and player management got us into the position of playing.

There are other managers who would do just as good as job. The question is finding them and I don't trust SR to do that. But that doesn't mean Tonda shouldn't go. I feel a bit sorry for him and the higher up powers are equally to blame for this but his position has become untenable. 

We will lose a good manager, yes, and our loss will be someone else's gain, but we have to move forward from this saga. 

If, and it's moot now, the outcome had been a big fine and points deduction, then maybe my choice would have been different, but to be kicked out one of the biggest fixtures in English football and lose our chance of the Prem... that's where it changes. Players will leave because of this and that saddens me just when we were putting a decent team together. 

[trousers]

9 minutes ago, Golac's Iron Gonads said:

Don't care about the club's reputation

The sponsors, who prop up our 'Financial Fair Play' status, probably do...

[LGTL]

5 minutes ago, MB said:

I want Parsons gone more but yes it’s an inevitability 

This. 

[trousers]

15 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

It's a no brainer. His reputation has been ruined. Sure he's done well for us, the first manager we've had that gave us some positivity since Ralph (I'm excluding Russ because he's a prick) which is why people might want to keep him, and he seems to wind up opposition fans who think he's an alien but he cost us promotion and for that he must go.

The FA will probably eliminate him anyway. 

That's harsh, but if they can beat the EFL's 'disproportionate' sanction then why not...

Edited 2 hours ago by trousers

[miltonroad]

It’ll be taken out of our hands with the inevitable ban, but voting no purely on the basis the next choice will be a downgrade. Not saying there aren’t better/adequate replacements out there but little faith we’ll find one. Think we’ll be stronger going into next season with him in charge. Damage is done so why self destruct on a point of principle which clearly haven’t mattered up to this point. 

[RedArmy]

Reluctantly yes. 

It’s not the crime of the century it’s been made out to be but there’s no coming back from this situation without him gone. 
 

Although if the players backed him and would stay if he stayed then I’d be behind him (I know there’s a 0.01% chance of this being the case) 

[Turkish]

15 minutes ago, MB said:

I want Parsons gone more but yes it’s an inevitability 

 

[SNSUN]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

That's harsh, but if they can beat the EFL's 'disproportionate' sanction then why not...

[SNSUN]

Just now, SNSUN said:

Ok that meme doesn't work as well when you can't see Goldfinger or Bond.

[Legoman]

Yes, despite a promising career ahead of him and results which clearly demonstrates his ability to manage a team at a high level, it’s extremely disappointing to learn of these unnecessary missions to spy that added so little in comparison of what he has to offer. What he has done to this club sadly cannot be forgiven despite what he could be capable of in the future.

[trousers]

4 minutes ago, Turkish said:

 

Is that a Middlesbrough bug on his lapel...?

Edited 1 hour ago by trousers

[SNSUN]

Just now, trousers said:

Is that a Middlesbrough bug on his lapel...?

Not sure but it looks as if he's reaching into his pocket for his phone so he can tell Gibbo some more illicit stuff...

[trousers]

Where the f*** is the "not sure" option FFS!

 

[Osvaldorama]

I’ve flipped and flopped on this. 

He has been a revelation for us; and I don’t think that’s because of “cheating”

I also do think his position is untenable now. 

BUT ultimately I think it should come down to what the players think. Do they hate him? Still trust him? 
 

Same as above, I really don’t care about what he did. It was a minor infraction, that should have been handled better by all. I’d go even further - I actually want saints to cheat and push the limits, just not to get caught.
Football is an absolute mess and has been for ages, so I don’t care about the morals of any of this. I just want saints to win. 

I think it will be taken out of our hands though and he’ll be banned. (Although - even that will be ridiculous and OTT based on the Bielsa precendent). 
 

 

[Hawkswood]

I think hes finished but if the FA didn't ban him and the players would still play for him then Id have him. Reminds me of the film Margin Call. The only thing that matters is the survival of the club and that means results on the pitch and I think we would struggle to get someone as good as him in and with that the threat of relegation  which would bring terrible damage. 

Results on the pitch are all that matters- for the good of the club.

Pretty sure we didn't spy on Arsenal and went toe to toe with the Premier league champions. 

At first I was furious and wanted him gone but Ive changed my mind.

[Wade Garrett]

100% yes.  He cheated and cost us a place in the final.

With the squad he had at his disposal, particularly after the additions of Larin and Peretz, we should have been absolutely nailed on for promotion.  My point is that he’s not some genius.  I think there are plenty of competent managers out there that would have at least matched what he did, without the cheating.

Get rid of him.  If Spors was complicit in the spying get rid of him too.  He would probably want to appoint another fucking hipster twat anyway.

 

[Willo of Whiteley]

Yes. 100%, yes.

But if keeping Tonda meant keeping the squad together 🤷🏻‍♂️ what do you do?

If that player/staff meeting happened yesterday, I would love to know the discussions/debates/insults that were thrown across the room. 😂

I don’t like what he and the club has orchestrated but I could maybe look past it depending on the above, the bit I despise is how he’s supposedly treated others, that will never, ever sit right with me, which is why his position is untenable 😂

Edited 1 hour ago by Willo of Whiteley

[Hawkswood]

7 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Yes. 100%, yes.

But if keeping Tonda meant keeping the squad together 🤷🏻‍♂️ what do you do?

If that player/staff meeting happened yesterday, I would love to know the discussions/debates/insults that were thrown across the room. 😂

I don’t like what he and the club has orchestrated but I could maybe look past it depending on the above, the bit I despise is how he’s supposedly treated others, that will never, ever sit right with me, which is why his position is untenable 😂

This is the thing for me. Either way its all moot. FA will do him

[Bobsmith]

We won’t get a better manager for next season so I say keep

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, Dark Munster said:

Title says it all. Seems opinions are split, from he's the devil incarnate, to a manager we don't want to lose committing a minor infraction resulting in a massively disproportionate penalty.

I said no, but it was a marginal call, because it’s possible I and others will feel differently when everything eventually calms down. it’s been a tumultuous couple of weeks, people have been whipped up into a frenzy and played to an extent. 

[trousers]

I can't get past the pile-on that he'll receive in every single press conference if he stays: "Tonda, did you attempt to cheat against <insert club we're playing> last season?"

Yes, I know it'll eventually subside but is it something we want hanging over us when a new manager probably gives us the better chance of a 'cleaner' reset...?

Edited 1 hour ago by trousers

[James G]

He's a Temu James Bond, as quoted somewhere 

The FA will come for him so there's no choice really 

[S-Clarke]

5 minutes ago, trousers said:

I can't get past the pile-on that he'll receive in every single press conference if he stays: "Tonda, did you attempt to cheat against <insert club we're playing> last season?"

Yes, I know it'll eventually subside but is it something we want hanging over us when a new manager probably gives us the better chance of a 'cleaner' reset...?

It's a PR disaster to keep him on, let's be honest. Sponsors, commercials, agents, player deals. etc etc.

It can't happen. The silence from the club is deafening, but I imagine they're waiting for him to be charged with the FA so they sack him for gross misconduct rather than having to pay out. Or alternatively they just get on with it and showed some front, SR suck up the compo. But that's not how SR work.

Edited 1 hour ago by S-Clarke

[revolution saint]

Problem is it's not quite that binary (ah shit, I've turned into trousers).  If we were sure that he wasn't getting a substantial ban (which he will), then I'd say keep him because he probably offers the best option for the new season.  There's less upheaval, planning continues and we could have a chance at hitting the ground running.  Obviously that's ignoring the downside of reputational damage but in a purely footballing context I think sticking with him has a higher probability of success.

Trouble is I think he will get a ban and then we pretty much have to sack him anyway.  So, umm, maybe?

Edited 1 hour ago by revolution saint

[Sheaf Saint]

38 minutes ago, trousers said:

Where the f*** is the "not sure" option FFS!

 

The time has come for you to finally come down off that fence my friend.

I know it's scary, breaking the habit of a lifetime. But we're all here to support you. You got this!

[sadoldgit]

How the mighty are fallen. A couple of weeks we were worried that a bigger club would come in for him.

I’m on the fence with this one but I think the players’ opinions should be taken into account If they also think that this has been blown out of all proportion him staying could help build a siege mentality where everyone pulls together and we actually become stronger next season.

Alternatively they might be pissed off with what has happened, blame him totally and have lost faith in him.

In reality I expect opinions are split, as on this forum, so God knows where that leaves us!

I’m glad I don’t have to make the decision.

[Sheaf Saint]

2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

It's a PR disaster to keep him on, let's be honest. Sponsors, commercials, agents, player deals. etc etc.

Absolutely this. 

[Matthew Le God]

1 minute ago, revolution saint said:

Problem is it's not quite that binary (ah shit, I've turned into trousers).  If we were sure that he wasn't getting a substantial ban (which he will), then I'd say keep him because he probably offers the best option for the new season.  There's less upheaval, planning continues and we could have a chance at hitting the ground running.  Obviously that's ignoring the downside of reputational damage but in a purely footballing context I think sticking with him has a higher probability of success.

Trouble is I think he will get a ban and then we pretty much have to sack him anyway.  So, umm, maybe?

The players losing any respect they had for him is an issue. As would be the media circus that would follow him around for every press conference and interview.

He'll be banned, sacked for gross misconduct and Saints can move on with a new manager who hasn't tarnished his and the club's reputation. 

[sadoldgit]

4 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

It's a PR disaster to keep him on, let's be honest. Sponsors, commercials, agents, player deals. etc etc.

It can't happen. The silence from the club is deafening, but I imagine they're waiting for him to be charged with the FA so they sack him for gross misconduct rather than having to pay out. Or alternatively they just get on with it and showed some front, SR suck up the compo. But that's not how SR work.

I’m not sure about the negative effect on sponsors. Zeiss Binoculars will be knocking the door down at St Mary’s.