BigShadow Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 Hmmm, whilst I admit that poopeys ownership strutcure has been somewhat complex, I think you may have pulled up the wrong chart........that is quite obviously the internal process map for ensuring creditors get paid on time. Here it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 If he is *deciding* between bids, then that immediately invalidates the PST bid, as the council loan (which the bid is dependent upon) is conditional upon them being the only bid on the table. Checkmate. I may be the only bid on the table but it is a 3 or 4 way decision isn't it? Accept PST Bid (if still credible) Accept Chinny Bid Think a better deal can be obtained so keep club going in admin Liquidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 (edited) I may be the only bid on the table but it is a 3 or 4 way decision isn't it? Accept PST Bid (if still credible) Accept Chinny Bid Think a better deal can be obtained so keep club going in admin Liquidate. Unless the Trust's bid has changed significantly so as to remove the funding from the council, it is not a credible bid. The council will not provide the loan if there is another competing bid on the table. Therefore if the Trust have not plugged a £1.45M financial gap from their plans, and so long as Chainrai's bid meets the terms of the CVA, the PST's bid cannot be serviced. Colin Farmery is doing his best Comical Ali "nothing to see here" impression. But Portpin hold all of the cards here, and he knows it. The Trust need to first of all find the funding to match their bid. They then also need to get the players to renegotiate their settlements from £8m to £2M. Portpin on the other hand have agreed to £8M, so their deal is by far the best deal for creditors (which Tricky Trev is legally obliged to recognise). If Chainrai wants it, and if his terms meet the CVA, its his. Edited 24 August, 2012 by The Kraken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyboy Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 Trev's choices - a. Accept the Trust bid, only on the understanding that you get the next admin job in six months time. b. Accept the Chinny bid and ignore the criticism - because you're more frightened of a loan shark than you are of six schoolboys who record feeble hip-hop in their nan's shed. c. Keep both parties interested...but fudge a decision pending further reports, thus dragging the whole process out to harvest more fees. I don't think either bid ticks all boxes, in fact the Trust don't even have a pencil, so I see Trev delaying things a....little....bit....longer, denying both parties some of the PPs and threatening the long term future of the club. Chanrai will then watch HIS money going to the administrators, the Trust will raise cash, but not as fast as it goes out the other end. And we all know that he has no intention of honouring the player agreements, whatever he says. Do the final PPs payout before the first player payment is due?... That could be judgement day. Whatever occurs I can't help remembering the guy who originally labelled us as nutjobs back in about January, he told us pompey were all sorted, their future looked bright, and it wasn't funny anymore. Despite all that, methinks that we might be able to squeeze one or two laughs out of what happens next.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 I see that figuring how to write a capital N is a tricky task for the natives. I think you'll find that's an attempt at making it look a bit Russian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 9.32am and the website is still down. Not exactly the best way for a professional football club* to advertise itself. *I know that s a stretch of the imagination.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazlo78 Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 If he is *deciding* between bids, then that immediately invalidates the PST bid, as the council loan (which the bid is dependent upon) is conditional upon them being the only bid on the table. Checkmate. Yup. It's here: http://www.portsmouth.gov.uk/media/coun20120809r5.pdf 4.6 It is the advice of the S151Officer that the City Council should only consider providing financial loan support to the PST if there is no other commercial alternative to bringing the Club out of Administration. Otherwise the City Council would be competing with others in commercial football activities and putting public funds at risk as opposed to being “the lender of last resort”. Accordingly, the recommendations in this report have been drafted to that effect. 4.7 It is not clear whether a deal will be concluded with Portpin to bring the Club out of Administration under their continued ownership and neither do we know whether the proposed PST bid would be considered to be more favourable to the creditors of the Club than the Portpin bid. 4.8 The situation at this stage therefore remains uncertain. However if a deal is concluded with Portpin then there would clearly be no need for any financial 7 loan support from the City Council. If a deal is not concluded with Portpin and the PST bid is acceptable to the Administrators, then the current PST bid is reliant on the City Council providing a loan for £1.45m. As a consequence, and given the nature of such transactions, in order for the PST to continue with their bid, they need to seek an approval from the City Council to provide loan support so that their bid can be considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 I think you'll find that's an attempt at making it look a bit Russian. Well it does look like it was done quickly (boom tish, here all thread). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 Well it does look like it was done quickly (boom tish, here all thread). Please, don't make me laugh. I don't want to open up my wounds again :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 If we assume they are now flush with the balance of a recent Parachute payment would I be right in thinking they have one left to come in of about $8M? If so does anyone know when they get that one? No, they've only received half of this year's parachute payment. It's paid in two instalments, the other one in January I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 Umm! interesting concept! nitram62 8:37 AM on 24/08/2012 Is it not inconceivable that Chainrai has someone lined up to purchase the ground for a better price than he is being offered by the PST,gets back in charge of PFC,then sells it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazlo78 Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 When considering the relation between ethics and law, there is a disctinction between what you are allowed to do and what you ought to do - and even though there is an overlap, these two things do not always go hand in hand: The reason I bring it up is that we keep on bringing ethical considerations into our views of PFC by constantly referring to charities and businesses being cheated and PFC gaining an unfair sporting advantage over rival clubs in League One. However, I think this criticism will fall on deaf ears as it is by now quite apparent that PFC is no longer constrained by any ethical boundaries, they are only - reluctantly - following the law (finding and exploiting every loophole along the way but most probably unable to do anything directly illegal with this much focus on the club). At every possible intersection have they chosen the way that leads to immediate gain for themselves in spite of whether this choice is ethical or not. Their uninhibited and almost suicidal ambition to compete at the top level at any cost is destructive to everyone connected to the club. A lot of people (businesses, players, clubs, charities etc.) have had dealings with PFC where they have been treated badly, but the club never stops or pauses for a moment to consider if this approach is right, defendable or at the very least just sustainable. And the fans seem to adopt this mindset (or they cause it in the first place). Let's use parachute payments to fund a promotion campaign, let's ship out young players to be able to trigger rules that will allow us to bring in more experienced players that we can't afford. Legal, unfortunately yes, but ethical, hell no! The point is, that it is very clear that PES and other like-minded Pompey fans reading this thread really don't understand why we keep on talking about charities, doing the right thing, restoring dignity, playing fair, cutting cloth, using youth players etc. To them, once the CVA is in place, all the creditors are part of the past. They racked up huge debts, but now it's solved and they have a clean slate. Now it's time to see if there are ressources to build a promotion team even if the solution is to beg all the shafted businesses for more money - just because Pompey neeeeds it! So legally you may soon have a clean slate, but morally you will not ever have that distinction before a phoenix club arises. And we'll be here to remind you again and again. (read a very light introduction to the relation between ethics and law here - with some good, simple examples: http://youensconsulting.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/EthicalLegal1.png) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazlo78 Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 Also to counter all the lazy "journalism" just reiterating half-baked truth of the week from Pompey, doesn't anyone in here know a journo that could put together something a little more coherent on the issue, asking the more difficult questions? I'm not saying a biased nutjob article (even though that would ROCK ) but a more balanced overview giving rise to those glaringly obvious questions that noone seems to ask. And before PES arrives telling us that we are being bad rivals by running to the press, could I just say that: 1. Since there's been so much sh*t spouted to the press to deliberately portray the PFC situation in a particular way by omitting central details and uncritically putting other details at center stage, it would only be just that someone tried to balance the picture a bit more. You've even got a useful idiot planted in the local press that gets invited on the preseason tours to join in on the fun and go back home to push whatever communicative strategy the local geniuses have thought up that day. And we're not allowed to call him out on his bullsh*t? 2. Elitist as it may sound, I'm not even sure you qualify for a rivalry in your present state. Not because of your sporting situation - we've been there and can hold our heads high - but because your club is immoral to the extreme (see above posting). You simply have to get your sh*t together and start acting in a more proper manner and then it's possible to once again see you as serious rivals and not just a hopeless social project gone wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackanorySFC Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 Some inarticulate nutter called Colin from the PST on Talksport now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Codger Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 No, they've only received half of this year's parachute payment. It's paid in two instalments, the other one in January I think. If they have only received half of this year's payment and the next installment is in January, then wouldn't that be next year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 I have updated it for you: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 I have updated it for you: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 If they have only received half of this year's payment and the next installment is in January, then wouldn't that be next year? This season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey-deacons-left-nut Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 Each seasons PP is split into two payments, one at the start of August, the other at the start of January. So they have 3 payments left, each one about £4m. January 2013 August 2013 January 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamplemousse Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 Portsmouth FC @officialpompey #Pompey website currently down. The hosting company are working on getting the problem resolved. Sorry for the inconvenience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazlo78 Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 I have updated it for you: Ha ha, that's very apt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 My wife came in while I was watching the football highlights she said, "Awww, is this the build up to the Paralympics?" I said, "No, it's the Portsmouth highlights." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 Portsmouth FC @officialpompey #Pompey website currently down. The hosting company are working on getting the problem resolved. Sorry for the inconvenience It would be such a shame if a High Net Worth Individual wanted to buy a football club, but couldn't get contact details from the Skate site, and bought someone else instead. Such a shame..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazlo78 Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 It would be such a shame if a High Net Worth Individual wanted to buy a football club, but couldn't get contact details from the Skate site, and bought someone else instead. Such a shame..... Swap HNW for Gambling Masochist Adrenaline Junkie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 When considering the relation between ethics and law, there is a disctinction between what you are allowed to do and what you ought to do - and even though there is an overlap, these two things do not always go hand in hand: The reason I bring it up is that we keep on bringing ethical considerations into our views of PFC by constantly referring to charities and businesses being cheated and PFC gaining an unfair sporting advantage over rival clubs in League One. However, I think this criticism will fall on deaf ears as it is by now quite apparent that PFC is no longer constrained by any ethical boundaries, they are only - reluctantly - following the law (finding and exploiting every loophole along the way but most probably unable to do anything directly illegal with this much focus on the club). At every possible intersection have they chosen the way that leads to immediate gain for themselves in spite of whether this choice is ethical or not. Their uninhibited and almost suicidal ambition to compete at the top level at any cost is destructive to everyone connected to the club. A lot of people (businesses, players, clubs, charities etc.) have had dealings with PFC where they have been treated badly, but the club never stops or pauses for a moment to consider if this approach is right, defendable or at the very least just sustainable. And the fans seem to adopt this mindset (or they cause it in the first place). Let's use parachute payments to fund a promotion campaign, let's ship out young players to be able to trigger rules that will allow us to bring in more experienced players that we can't afford. Legal, unfortunately yes, but ethical, hell no! The point is, that it is very clear that PES and other like-minded Pompey fans reading this thread really don't understand why we keep on talking about charities, doing the right thing, restoring dignity, playing fair, cutting cloth, using youth players etc. To them, once the CVA is in place, all the creditors are part of the past. They racked up huge debts, but now it's solved and they have a clean slate. Now it's time to see if there are ressources to build a promotion team even if the solution is to beg all the shafted businesses for more money - just because Pompey neeeeds it! So legally you may soon have a clean slate, but morally you will not ever have that distinction before a phoenix club arises. And we'll be here to remind you again and again. (read a very light introduction to the relation between ethics and law here - with some good, simple examples: http://youensconsulting.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/EthicalLegal1.png) Excellent summation, articulate and objective ! One of the best yet IMHO ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fowllyd Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 Excellent summation, articulate and objective ! One of the best yet IMHO ! Seconded - to Lazlo78 for that and its follow-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 Some inarticulate nutter called Colin from the PST on Talksport now... He's supposed to be the most sensible one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carljack Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 My wife came in while I was watching the football highlights she said, "Awww, is this the build up to the Paralympics?" I said, "No, it's the Portsmouth highlights." Harsh but Fair. PMSL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edprice1984 Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 I see that figuring how to write a capital N is a tricky task for the natives. Hopefully the US will think that this is some sort of Al Quaeda training camp and bomb the f***ers into the Sea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 It still remains to be seen whether Chanrai's new bid will be acceptable (both to the administrator, and to the Football League) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 Has the trust put its bid in? Really looking forward to the spin around the terms of the loan, the slashing of the compromise agreements and the fact chinny hasn't even acknowledged their offer for fratton park. Come on colin, let's be seeing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 It still remains to be seen whether Chanrai's new bid will be acceptable (both to the administrator, and to the Football League) All he has to do in that regard is meet the terms of his own CVA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyboy Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 today would be a great day for Kanu's lawyer to bang on the door with a reminder. Hero for the cup final, villain for wanting his wages at admin1, hero for agreeing a longer contract, villain for being 50 years old, hero for deferring wages in admin2, villain for wanting it paid, hero for leaving, villain for wanting a compromise?? Is he currently a hero for keeping quiet during negotiations so that Birch can pretend there is no HUGE £3M-shaped cloud hanging over the future? And as for Colin Farmery, the poor bloke looks a little bit madder everytime he appears - many of the Trust people have put WAY too much time into taking this dead dog to Crufts, and it's starting to show. You can only drag the corpse around the parade ring so many times before bits start falling off. Their hearts might be in the right place, but their business brains are definitely not. The Trust should accept defeat for the sake of their own health and give the manky thing a dignifed burial - get a puppy and unleash it in the Wessex League. They need closure, and Birch is the man who could organise that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 All he has to do in that regard is meet the terms of his own CVA. And agree to let go of the parachute payments that have been allocated to compromise agreements with the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 And agree to let go of the parachute payments that have been allocated to compromise agreements with the players. Not necessarily. He just has to agree to the scheduled payments of them over the next 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 Has the trust put its bid in? Really looking forward to the spin around the terms of the loan, the slashing of the compromise agreements and the fact chinny hasn't even acknowledged their offer for fratton park. Come on colin, let's be seeing it. PST press conference with Comical Farmery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 2.43pm and the club site is still as AWOL as Kanu ever was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony13579 Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 Portsmouth FC @officialpompey #Pompey website currently down. The hosting company are working on getting the problem resolved. Sorry for the inconvenience The web server is in use, It’s trying to calculate the improbability of their survival Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 http://www.lifesapitch.co.uk/laptv/podcast/fl-extra/appleton-is-pompeys-manager-accountant-and-miracle-worker/? Appy is now an accountant ! Mr Fairness has posted the only relevant comment so far ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 F#cking great, any mention of paying back the debts gets immediately pulled ! I wrote the comment and it was factual, fair and honest, without any abuse or potential liable/slander ! It seems that there is no way to offer a constructive view unless it portrays the Phew as plucky ! There is a conspiracy, now I am sure of it ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 F#cking great, any mention of paying back the debts gets immediately pulled ! I wrote the comment and it was factual, fair and honest, without any abuse or potential liable/slander ! It seems that there is no way to offer a constructive view unless it portrays the Phew as plucky ! There is a conspiracy, now I am sure of it ........ Oops, they have now reinstated it, I suppose that I should apologise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goneawol Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 Man accused of abusing ex-Pompey player Tal Ben Haim on Twitter http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/local/man-accused-of-abusing-ex-pompey-player-tal-ben-haim-on-twitter-1-4200004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 F#cking great, any mention of paying back the debts gets immediately pulled ! I wrote the comment and it was factual, fair and honest, without any abuse or potential liable/slander ! It seems that there is no way to offer a constructive view unless it portrays the Phew as plucky ! There is a conspiracy, now I am sure of it ........ It's there now..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 Man accused of abusing ex-Pompey player Tal Ben Haim on Twitter http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/local/man-accused-of-abusing-ex-pompey-player-tal-ben-haim-on-twitter-1-4200004 Prosecuting the rabble but not the chief rabble rousers in the shape of Birch and the News. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets B Avenue Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 Man accused of abusing ex-Pompey player Tal Ben Haim on Twitter http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/local/man-accused-of-abusing-ex-pompey-player-tal-ben-haim-on-twitter-1-4200004 So they've charged Doctor Who. Good luck with that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 Prosecuting the rabble but not the chief rabble rousers in the shape of Birch and the News. Makes you wonder if a certain journalist (using the term loosely !) could be done for incitement ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanimal Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 Appy on Solent this morning said he would be 'appy to work wiv Portpin if it 'appens. Nearly crashed the car laughing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sticksaint Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 today would be a great day for Kanu's lawyer to bang on the door with a reminder. Hero for the cup final, villain for wanting his wages at admin1, hero for agreeing a longer contract, villain for being 50 years old, hero for deferring wages in admin2, villain for wanting it paid, hero for leaving, villain for wanting a compromise?? Is he currently a hero for keeping quiet during negotiations so that Birch can pretend there is no HUGE £3M-shaped cloud hanging over the future? And as for Colin Farmery, the poor bloke looks a little bit madder everytime he appears - many of the Trust people have put WAY too much time into taking this dead dog to Crufts, and it's starting to show. You can only drag the corpse around the parade ring so many times before bits start falling off. Their hearts might be in the right place, but their business brains are definitely not. The Trust should accept defeat for the sake of their own health and give the manky thing a dignifed burial - get a puppy and unleash it in the Wessex League. They need closure, and Birch is the man who could organise that. Brilliant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 http://www.lifesapitch.co.uk/laptv/podcast/fl-extra/appleton-is-pompeys-manager-accountant-and-miracle-worker/? Appy is now an accountant ! Mr Fairness has posted the only relevant comment so far ! nosododgyFL needs to be made aware of the facts methinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 24 August, 2012 Share Posted 24 August, 2012 (edited) 'Make thing up' lol IMHO I have been correct in many things on this, the major one is that they were not toast and will not be. I get my hopes up and then am dashed by operators far more shrewd than those on here. We make the mistake that a football club is treated the same as any other business. The sentimental and community aspect is very powerful, add the fact that it gets treated differently in tax/debt conditions. BC will be taking them over for the reason to protect as much debt as possible. The scenario of renting the ground back to the trust may come to pass, but in the meanwhile they are not toast and are yet again limping on, with quite a decent team Been away for a couple of days, but I sense you're getting a bit het up, Nick. Look at it this way, they are in the pop-up toaster, and will, without a shadow of a doubt, pop up as soon as the last parachute payment has gone. It has always been this way, nobody has got away with anything. The root of the evil is the idiots who run the PL. They agreed to pay £48m in cash to every club that got relegated. They wrote it into their rules that they have to pay out the money in full, but they were pretty vague about who it should be paid to. Sorry, did I say idiots, I meant chairmen/owners of PL clubs. Sorry, my mistake. Edited 24 August, 2012 by hutch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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