Pompey Takeover Saga

[Ponty]

What sort of deal? It would be illegal to ultimately pay HMRC more, pro rata, than the other unsecured creditors.

 

Sounds like bullsh*t to me.

[hypochondriac]

No I mean the fact that they were originally claiming something like 17 million. HMRC then claimed 35 million and they agreed on 24 million. Some of them reckon it was a mutual agreement.

[hypochondriac]

Andronikou negotiated an increase in their debt to £24m with them. There must be a deal behind it. HMRC still voted against as they have a policy to do but they got more money than before.

 

I think Andronikou has done a deal with them that they won't appeal and drag it out.

 

There you go.

[Ponty]

Ah, I see.

 

The noises coming from HMRC suggest different but then I wouldn't trust the HMRC as far as I could throw them. In fact, it's pretty galling having to cheer them on in this instance. It's only cos it's Pompey.

[Matthew Le God]

Some of the skates reckon HMRC have cut a deal with AA and thus will not be challenging. Can't see it myself but I would be livid if true.

 

If they have done a deal why have they said today they are "considering their position"?

 

If a deal had been done it would be over today and there would be nothing to consider. Thus no deal.

Edited 17 June, 2010 by Matthew Le God

[hypochondriac]

If they have got away with this then there is truly no justice in the world.

[seaempty]

I can't believe how depressed I am about the CVA being accepted. I mean, it's only ****ing Pompey, a crappy little football club, and yet I'm sitting here, moping around like the world's going to end. I really need to get a grip. I got called bitter at work, and got frustrated because nobody else can see why they're cheats. I'm sure HMRC will appeal, and there's more fun to be had, but right now, they are laughing, and it's getting to me more than it should!

[sidthesquid]

I can't believe how depressed I am about the CVA being accepted. I mean, it's only ****ing Pompey, a crappy little football club, and yet I'm sitting here, moping around like the world's going to end. I really need to get a grip. I got called bitter at work, and got frustrated because nobody else can see why they're cheats. I'm sure HMRC will appeal, and there's more fun to be had, but right now, they are laughing, and it's getting to me more than it should!

 

Feck'em, I say.

Cheats never prosper & karma gets you in the end (I hope.....)

[JackFrost]

so the 15th of July is the date which HMRC must appeal by?

[dubai_phil]

Tony Husband on BBC South Today just said that someone from HMRC during the meeting asked in front of everyone why their debt was reduced in voting rights AA refused to comment. Very strange not to do so if he has a valid reason that he is comfortable about. Why not just say in front of everyone at the meeting?

 

Dear Constant Reader

This may be the most interesting and important post of the thread so far.

Pick up a couple of cases of beer and some nice Vino, go find some take-away menus and sit back and enjoy what will clearly come next if Tony has his report correct

[Dark Munster]

Feck'em, I say.

Cheats never prosper & karma gets you in the end (I hope.....)

Actually, they often do.

[Dark Munster]

If they have got away with this then there is truly no justice in the world.

There is no justice in this world. Didn't your mama tell you that?

 

CHEATING BASTARDS

[Ponty]

Dear Constant Reader

This may be the most interesting and important post of the thread so far.

Pick up a couple of cases of beer and some nice Vino, go find some take-away menus and sit back and enjoy what will clearly come next if Tony has his report correct

 

Someone more cynical than me would probably say, "Yeah, yeah. We've heard all that before."

[Channon's Sideburns]

Basically it's like this.

 

Unless you're a Saints fan, most 'neutrals' (at the moment at least) don't know enough about the Skate situation in order to care.

Now then, if HMRC take it back to court, it's going to get a whole lot more coverage.

The skate fans will, ultimately believe what they're told - regardless of what they say.

 

Think of how long it took before they protested....

 

It ain't over yet, and I (4-1) as they seem to love quoting, can't wait.

 

Whatever happens next, their day in the sun has clouded over, and it's about to p1ss down.

[CB Saint]

HMRC have not cut a deal - I cannot see it. I am sure they will challenge it. They are attacking football on a number of fronts, storrie and rednapp, suing the EPL, challenging the football creditor rule and going after pompey. They will continue until something sticks.

[St Chalet]

What sort of deal? It would be illegal to ultimately pay HMRC more, pro rata, than the other unsecured creditors.

 

Sounds like bullsh*t to me.

 

 

replace 'HMRC' with 'football creditors' and it suddenly becomes legal???

 

Hence why HMRC could win that part of their argument as well.

Edited 17 June, 2010 by St Chalet

[seaempty]

I'm still amazed so many creditors accepted it when:

 

a/. Someone provides proof that a better deal is possible, and

 

b/. AA said himself that if it was rejected, he'd have to come back with a better offer.

 

You've got the taxman on your side - surely it's worth a punt to reject, and sees what happens? I guess it's easier for me to talk, as my livelihood's not affected.

[Jimmy_D]

Don't forget that it's not extra debt as such, but fines of 100 percent levied for non payment of tax, with the harshness caused by non intention to pay and actively avoiding payment.

[redfred]

Don't forget that it's not extra debt as such, but fines of 100 percent levied for non payment of tax, with the harshness caused by non intention to pay and actively avoiding payment.

 

So would it then be feasible for anyone doing business with poopey to have had it in the terms of the deal that a 100% penalty is levied for non payment in, say, 3 months? Or is this a fine the HMRC can apply only when in admin? The only benefit would be to double the size of the debt here, but a debt of a quarter of a billion would sound pretty impressive.

[Viking Warrior]

NIckH I didnt expect you to rise to the bait. Im glad you are a saint fan but at times it seemed you were masquerading as a skate fan with some of your pro skate comments

I believe this story has a few more sequels to run. but you do seem to have an air of smugness where by I told you so.

 

PS does anybody know if AA paid those charities the money that was promised to them.

[Whitey Grandad]

Don't forget that it's not extra debt as such, but fines of 100 percent levied for non payment of tax, with the harshness caused by non intention to pay and actively avoiding payment.

 

At what date were the fines effective? Was it, or could it have been, before the date of administration?

[hypochondriac]

The not wanting to take it to court bit is what is worrying. How can they possibly challenge it without taking it to court?

[aintforever]

The good thing is though even if they do escape the tax man then Chanrai will just milk them for the parachutes and leave them floundering anyway. This is someone who watched them get relegated and put them in admin, he obviously doesn't give a monkeys about PFC, he just wants as much cash out of them as he can get.

[Matthew Le God]

The good thing is though even if they do escape the tax man then Chanrai will just milk them for the parachutes and leave them floundering anyway. This is someone who watched them get relegated and put them in admin, he obviously doesn't give a monkeys about PFC, he just wants as much cash out of them as he can get.

 

He'll have a long wait if he doesn't sell the club. The payments of parachute money goto football creditors until they are paid off.

[positivepete]

Matt Slater from the BBC has updated his blog, is the first line a nod to this thread?

 

To the disappointment of Southampton fans, Treasury officials and rival insolvency firms hoping to get the liquidation gig, cash-strapped Portsmouth have taken a big step towards financial stability.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/mattslater/2010/06/a_good_day_for_pompey_fans.html

[so22saint]

Matt Slater from the BBC has updated his blog, is the first line a nod to this thread?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/mattslater/2010/06/a_good_day_for_pompey_fans.html

 

I think it is. Having said that, he fully expects HMRC to challenge the CVA in court which means more deductions I think. Personally, I couldn't give a **** anymore as we clearly have better prospects and will be above them in 3 seasons at most, but I'll be amused if they start on -20 or whatever.

[Clapham Saint]

Tony Husband on BBC South Today just said that someone from HMRC during the meeting asked in front of everyone why their debt was reduced in voting rights AA refused to comment. Very strange not to do so if he has a valid reason that he is comfortable about. Why not just say in front of everyone at the meeting?

 

That's awful if true. But does fit with his previous comments when caught out (dismissing the judges comments as boll*cks etc).

 

I really hope his licencing body end up looking at his conduct in this. It's bad enough that some IPs even try to do this sort of thing once, let alone be blatantly caught out again and again.

 

I'm still sure that HMRC will challenge within the 28 days and toast will still result, but more than stopping P*mpey "getting away with it" I really really want AA to get shafted for his actions.

[Clapham Saint]

So would it then be feasible for anyone doing business with poopey to have had it in the terms of the deal that a 100% penalty is levied for non payment in, say, 3 months? Or is this a fine the HMRC can apply only when in admin? The only benefit would be to double the size of the debt here, but a debt of a quarter of a billion would sound pretty impressive.

 

HMRC can fine any company 100% of the balance owed if (as Jimmy says) there is intention to avoid payment.

[hypochondriac]

Cheers for the comments Clapham. They reassure me a bit!

[Dark Munster]

The good thing is though even if they do escape the tax man then Chanrai will just milk them for the parachutes and leave them floundering anyway. This is someone who watched them get relegated and put them in admin, he obviously doesn't give a monkeys about PFC, he just wants as much cash out of them as he can get.

 

Yes, but we're worried he'll buy another bunch of mercenaries to get them promoted at the first attempt. True, he'll be after the PL Sky money, but as a by-product the CHEATING BASTARDS could re-establish themselves in the PL.

[Dark Munster]

I'm still amazed so many creditors accepted it when:

 

a/. Someone provides proof that a better deal is possible, and

 

b/. AA said himself that if it was rejected, he'd have to come back with a better offer.

 

You've got the taxman on your side - surely it's worth a punt to reject, and sees what happens? I guess it's easier for me to talk, as my livelihood's not affected.

 

I'm amazed too. But don't forget, a huge part of the unsecured debt is either to football creditors (who'll get back 100% anyway), and Gayboy who'll get back (even at 20p in the pound) a lot more than he is really owed (allegedly). And God knows what other backroom deals have been made by AA.

[Saint in Paradise]

That's awful if true. But does fit with his previous comments when caught out (dismissing the judges comments as boll*cks etc).

 

I really hope his licencing body end up looking at his conduct in this. It's bad enough that some IPs even try to do this sort of thing once, let alone be blatantly caught out again and again.

 

I'm still sure that HMRC will challenge within the 28 days and toast will still result, but more than stopping P*mpey "getting away with it" I really really want AA to get shafted for his actions.

 

 

Clapham Saint, could your company make an official complaint to that professional body ?

 

 

.

[dubai_phil]

Having seen the Frogs result & performance last night, Karma is alive and well and waiting for it's turn up the M27

[Kingsbridge Saint]

Went to talk to some leading insolvency experts in Australia (where I live) about a job - and they referred to the profession as having some unscrupulous characters working in it. They mentioned the current administrator of Portsmouth as an example. I wonder if those voting returns from the creditors were subject to independent verification or whether it was just left to AA and his cronies stood by the fax machine with a bottle of tippex. Cheating bastards. HMRC will get them yet, I am pretty sure.

[St Jim]

I'm not really surprised by the CVA getting through. AA was always going to either inflate the overall debt or state a reduced HMRC debt to ensure that they had under 25%.

 

Whether they get away with it will depend on whether HMRC will appeal the CVA in the courts and I can not for one minute think they will accept the decission especially as HMRC have pushed thing this far I can't see them just giving up.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if HMRC had wanted this CVA to be approved as this will give them their day in court they've been so desperate to have with a Football Club.

 

No doubt we will not hear a thing from them until 1 hour before teh deadline for appeal ends.

 

I still think there is a whole world of **** to fall upon our fishy neighbours

[sidthesquid]

What about the vote by 'non-associated' creditors?

Edited 18 June, 2010 by sidthesquid
make sense

[saintalan]

On SSN STEVE Cotterill apptointed Poopey manager

[Gingeletiss]

It appears they have signed Steve Cotterill...........WTF?

[JustMike]

they can do what they like now, cva agreed and all that

 

CHEATS

[Block 18]

Just a thought, have they paid Soton Uni for the training ground or have they been evicted? be nice if they had nowhere to train.

 

CHEATS

[CB Saint]

I didn't think that any embargo stretched to the manager - just players.

[seaempty]

Anyone else find this absolutaly disgusting?

However, Andrew Andronikou admitted he was surprised at the actions of Hart.

 

He said: 'We only had a handful of creditors, three or four, that voted against it.

 

'With Paul Hart, I have no idea his reasons, we just had a rejection. Thankfully it hasn't damaged the club.

 

'I am very surprised because they (Hart and Kutner) are very much involved with football and you would have thought would have been supporting the club and making sure it survived.

 

'By their rejection, you can only infer they would rather the club went into liquidation.

From: http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/Hart-rejected-CVA-proposals.6370300.jp

 

Perhaps, Mr Andronikou, they weren't happy with being shafted by your pathetic CVA?

[suewhistle]

HMRC have not cut a deal - I cannot see it. I am sure they will challenge it. They are attacking football on a number of fronts, storrie and rednapp, suing the EPL, challenging the football creditor rule and going after pompey. They will continue until something sticks.

 

I'm with this opinion, there's a whole lot going on behind the scenes and occasionally front stage, like HMRC's question at the meeting. The fat lady hasn't sung yet and we're nowhere near the final curtain. It's more like one of those cliff-hanger series, "Pompey have their CVA, but what will happen next. See next week's thrilling episode..."

[Red and White Army]

Seems like a whole bunch of people, including football agents and Udinese did not vote at all in the CVA. Something smells very fishy.

[NickG]

disgusting comments by AA

 

appointed a low level unattractive manager.

[Wes Tender]

Matt Slater from the BBC has updated his blog, is the first line a nod to this thread?

 

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/mattslater/2010/06/a_good_day_for_pompey_fans.html

 

Then Slater goes on to say that HMRC could still appeal the CVA, that they will challenge the Football Creditors ruling in Court and also that the Court ruling on Messrs Redcrapp. Storrieteller and Mandaric was also still to come.

 

So why would we be disappointed? The Android has presumably massaged the figures unethically and could receive sanctions against him that might jeopardise his future career as an Insolvency Practitioner. It was the expectation that he would somehow pull a stroke like this to get the CVA through, so I suspect that most on here are rubbing their hands in glee and anticipation at the further fun to come.

[trousers]

So, just to summarise the last 12 months...

 

Football Club runs up debts

 

Football Club Owner seeks way of reducing debt

 

Football Club Owner puts Football Club into administration

 

Football Club Owner reduces debt by 80%

 

Football Club starts afresh ready for another unfunded push into Premier League

 

If only I'd known running a company was this easy when I saw the careers advisor in 1985

[OldNick]

NIckH I didnt expect you to rise to the bait. Im glad you are a saint fan but at times it seemed you were masquerading as a skate fan with some of your pro skate comments

I believe this story has a few more sequels to run. but you do seem to have an air of smugness where by I told you so.

 

PS does anybody know if AA paid those charities the money that was promised to them.

Viking I dont have any pro Pompey thoughts, I have just looked at it from where iam and felt how it was turning out.

I think saying I have a smug told you so attitude, is very unfair. I have not come on and said 'I told you so' .

Iam still hoping that Clapham etc who are very clued up will prevail.

This mornings news that Cotterill has been appointed may well underline my thoughts that Chanrai will indeed go for promotion and already favours are being pulled in from HR.

[Smirking_Saint]

Seems like a whole bunch of people, including football agents and Udinese did not vote at all in the CVA. Something smells very fishy.

 

If they are football creditors i can only assume they have no voting power as they get their full 'pound in the pound' as apposed to the 20% of debt repayment every other 'mug' that voted in favour will recieve.

[Red and White Army]

You really do have a smug "I told you so" attitude. You even empathize this with your final sentence. Surprised you're not even smart enough to keep the "I told you so" type comments out of the "I am not saying I told you so" post.