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Daren W

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Quick question, I've been arguing with some skates on another messageboard about the two clubs and I'd be interested your opinions; honest opinions...

What, right now, is more important?

a) History and let's be honest Pompey have a more illustrious history than us with two top flight titles and holding on to the FA cup when the rest of the world was fighting Hitler..

or

b) The right here and now, and lets be honest, Saints are a healthy, stable, thriving club, on the verge of something really special..

 

I know what I think is more important but football is always about the past with our obsessions about stats etc.

So what is more important?

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The thing is that history can be massaged to "prove" anything. Corp, for example, bangs on about the two 4-1`s as though they are proof that Skates are better than us, whereas I think that we have an overall win ratio of 19-9 (including the fact that we have won more of the games at FP that they have). History isn`t just about results on a page. How does our 30-odd year time in the top division come into the equation? I am very excited about Saints ATM, and have immense pride in what is going on at the club and the way it is being acheived. I feel clean. Can any Skate, in all honesty, claim that?

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Every club has history, some more than others and some have an illustrious past which can be looked back on with pride however the most important thing is the here and now. It matters not one jot how good you were 1 year, 5 years or 50 years ago because that won't have any impact on today. You play today to get tomorrow's history.

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Tell them:

 

We've been in the top division for longer than them - 35 seasons as against their 33

 

We've never been as low as the fourth division - they have

 

Most of their trophy wins were lucky - the two championships were based on players they picked up during the war - when half the male population of footballing age was stationed close to P*rstmouth. And it was during the time of the maximum wage when teams were much more equal. Us coming second in in the league in 1984 on gates of 18,000 was a much harder achievement

 

The FA cup in 2008 they 'bought' rather than won - anybody can do that - spend loads of money that they haven't got. In fact we should start a campaign to have that cup taken away from them - like they did with Marseille and the European cup back in the 90s after their financial irregularities

 

We've had better players than them - an all-time Saints XI would wallop an all-time P*mpey one

 

That bloody dock strike never happened!

 

They're skates and we're not!

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Tell them:

 

We've been in the top division for longer than them - 35 seasons as against their 33

 

We've never been as low as the fourth division - they have

 

Most of their trophy wins were lucky - the two championships were based on players they picked up during the war - when half the male population of footballing age was stationed close to P*rstmouth. And it was during the time of the maximum wage when teams were much more equal. Us coming second in in the league in 1984 on gates of 18,000 was a much harder achievement

 

The FA cup in 2008 they 'bought' rather than won - anybody can do that - spend loads of money that they haven't got. In fact we should start a campaign to have that cup taken away from them - like they did with Marseille and the European cup back in the 90s after their financial irregularities

 

We've had better players than them - an all-time Saints XI would wallop an all-time P*mpey one

 

That bloody dock strike never happened!

 

They're skates and we're not!

 

 

 

agree with all of this.

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if you are an old supporter who enjoyed the LM era then history is important, if you are a youngster and missed out I suspect the enjoyment they have had in the last 5 seasons would put them ahead.

They have had a wonderful time in the last few years, all on the back of underhand dealings. Fans dont give a stuff about that, especially the Johnnie come latelys

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History gives a sense of what the club is all about, not just trophies but the way the club was started/grew/became what it is, and also how neutrals perceive it to be. In that aspect I'd definitely sooner be a Scummer than a Skate.

 

But equally, probably more important is the future - if it was just about history there would be no point in playing any more games. Ask any Saints and (sensible) Pompey fans how confident they are about a) their next match, b) the rest of this season and c) the next 5 years and I have a sneaky suspicion who will come out top in all 3.

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History gives a sense of what the club is all about, not just trophies but the way the club was started/grew/became what it is, and also how neutrals perceive it to be. In that aspect I'd definitely sooner be a Scummer than a Skate.

 

But equally, probably more important is the future - if it was just about history there would be no point in playing any more games. Ask any Saints and (sensible) Pompey fans how confident they are about a) their next match, b) the rest of this season and c) the next 5 years and I have a sneaky suspicion who will come out top in all 3.

 

Good point, perhaps I should have said Trophies as opposed to history as the two are very different, and I do believe that in terms of players, managers and history we are the better club...

Edited by Daren W
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The FA cup in 2008 they 'bought' rather than won - anybody can do that - spend loads of money that they haven't got. In fact we should start a campaign to have that cup taken away from them - like they did with Marseille and the European cup back in the 90s after their financial irregularities

 

Actually Olympique Marseille are still recognised as the winners of the 1992/3 European Cup / Champions League, they just happened to be stripped of their French championship the same season (and relegated) due to bribing Valenciennes for the match the week before the CL Final, and then prevented from defending the trophy.

 

But I'm all in favour of stripping Cheats FC of anything they've won, never mind the fluke Cup Final.

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Actually Olympique Marseille are still recognised as the winners of the 1992/3 European Cup / Champions League, they just happened to be stripped of their French championship the same season (and relegated) due to bribing Valenciennes for the match the week before the CL Final, and then prevented from defending the trophy.

 

But I'm all in favour of stripping Cheats FC of anything they've won, never mind the fluke Cup Final.

 

 

Ah - thanks for putting me right. I'm sure we can think of another precedent for the Skates to lose that cup though...

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When they went above us and had cash to spend and we were going under, history was more important, as we had been top flight for 27 years. Now they're going under and we are resurgent, history counts for nothing. What's more important is generally whatever makes saints come out looking best. if we now go on to win three league titles and a few cups before dropping away again, history will be important again.

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Portsmouth are statistically more successful than Saints. They are also play at a higher level than us.

 

My advice to you? Have the row in a couple of years when you can at least point to our league position.

 

That said, I genuinely believe we'd tonk them if we played them tomorrow.

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How far back do you want to go?

 

1900 - 1910.....saints were on the rise. Made it to 2 FA Cup finals. I think winning 6 out of 10 Southern league titles in this period. We would 'likely' have been a major force in the football league e.g. as we were signing players from football league clubs. The main reason Saints weren't in the football league was because it mainly consisted of midland and northern clubs. Transport was a problem and very expensive, I think a couple of southern clubs almost went bust but because they tried to compete in the league with the northern clubs. So Saints resisted and dominated the southern league during this period.

 

I would take skate's gloating with a pinch of salt...do you here Huddersfield fans going on about their 3 league titles in 1924, 25 & 26? No because they know the game has changed and that is in the past. Skate's fans generally don't have much of clue and think they are a massive club because they spent (and I mean SPENT) 7 years in the top flight.

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we was in top flight for 27 yeas! also ask em who is the bigger club!

 

That old boring one. Yes we were in the top flight for 27 years, so have alot of clubs and since then we have failed to be promoted. We have won **** all trophy wise, one FA Cup and one Paint Pot trophy.

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Quick question, I've been arguing with some skates on another messageboard about the two clubs and I'd be interested your opinions; honest opinions...

What, right now, is more important?

a) History and let's be honest Pompey have a more illustrious history than us with two top flight titles and holding on to the FA cup when the rest of the world was fighting Hitler..

or

b) The right here and now, and lets be honest, Saints are a healthy, stable, thriving club, on the verge of something really special..

 

I know what I think is more important but football is always about the past with our obsessions about stats etc.

So what is more important?

 

That's History vs. Future you are juxtaposing. If you were really talking about "here and now", Pompey have that too as they are a league above us.

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By definition we have more history than then. Nailed on, unarguable fact. 1885 versus 189(?)

We've had more seasons in the top flight

We have a much bigger support.

We may have only won the FA Cup once, but we did it with style, unlike buying it by using players we couldn't afford, and then beating lower league opposition in the final (which was the least watched FA Cup final in History). FACT.

And when they go around making up 'facts' like the scum story, they're never going to be believed.

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The right here and right nowis important, Saints are a healthy, thriving club, on the verge of something really special rather than go the way of clubs which went bust and forgotten about.

also most people who don,t even know pompey were champions of england twice,the same gos with huddersfield who became the first team to win the titles 3 times in a row with herbert chapman.

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Easy for me - how good have we been since I have been aware of saints?

 

Is there any relevance to anyone that Preston used to win more titles than Man U? No.

 

I am in my forties, all my life except the last 7 years we have been the better side. That applies to most people!

 

Therefore, the history that is at all relevant to me, i.e I have enjoyed, has had us as by far the better side.

 

They are currently better than us.

 

After this year we will be above them for the rest of my life and the 7 year blip will soon be forgotten by football supporters around the country.

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Quick question, I've been arguing with some skates on another messageboard about the two clubs and I'd be interested your opinions; honest opinions...

What, right now, is more important?

a) History and let's be honest Pompey have a more illustrious history than us with two top flight titles and holding on to the FA cup when the rest of the world was fighting Hitler..

or

b) The right here and now, and lets be honest, Saints are a healthy, stable, thriving club, on the verge of something really special..

 

I know what I think is more important but football is always about the past with our obsessions about stats etc.

So what is more important?

 

The history books hold all the records, so to be fair it's hard for most fans to relate to 70 year old achievements -especially as

we tend to relate to players we know of, and /or have today.

 

The average fan in their late 20's...can recall the hignlights of MLT's career, someone in their forties, may recall the FA cup win 1976

seniors in retiremnet can recall the early 1960's with Paine and Sydenham, the first promotion to Div.1 (Prem as was ).The legends surrounding Ron Davies..and of course there are those who even remember the greatness of Charlie Wayman, but this mean little to the younger fans, and the lack of documentary evidence; TV , videos of players and games make it more difficult to compare.

In living memory ..is a good phrase, so for those of us who were mature enough to appreciate the success and glory since ..say back to the 1970's... then it's Saints all the way, with only 'Arry R. giving some respectability to Pompey's recent history.

 

Going back to the record books for the period 1920-1950..FA Cup, League 1 Champions and the likes of Jimmy Dickinson...then Saints were always a poor second.

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