Fitzhugh Fella Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/11334165.After_months_of_PR_gaffes__Saints_unveil_their_number_one_weapon_to_unite_disgruntled_fans/?ref=twt the fans are disgruntled according to the Echo, not sure he has read the mood accurately. I think there is perhaps concern that our board is inexperienced but that is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSUN Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Yuck, one line paragraphs. I hate that. True story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Terrible, straight from the Neil Allen school of grammar and melodrama. That is genuinely unreadable. Another nail in the Echo's coffin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Christ, has Simon Carter been taking lessons in journalism from Factless Allen at the News? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 (edited) Simon Carter may not be mincing his words, but he is certainly mincing his paragraphs. Edited 11 July, 2014 by Bearsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 God that is appallingly laid out with terrible grammar - can't be bothered to even try to read it as it looks like it has been written by that portsmouth news clown. Horrendous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Do agree with much of what he says. Think we have stayed remarkably positive as fans tbh in the midst of so many changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire Saint Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 As he is a professional writer (in the sense that he is paid to write) I am surprised that he has no grasp of English grammar or punctuation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Terrible, straight from the Neil Allen school of grammar and melodrama. That is genuinely unreadable. Another nail in the Echo's coffin. Thought Simon Carter had a decent rep? But yeah, I found it a terrible read, s**t article, strange over the top approach, badly written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 gave up reading after about 5 lines or about 5 paragraphs. what does it say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Obviously an attempt to balance out the well constructed and pon the money article about Lovren the other day ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 (edited) There WAS a lot of disgruntlement amongst some, but that settled down. The appointment of Koeman and the signing of Tadic has brought back a lot of faith that we will have a decent side, even if Morgan and Lovren do go. Edited 11 July, 2014 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Extremely good article and an accurate assessment of what has gone on. To those who carp about grammar and structure, this is a press article not an A-level essay. Its about getting over a message and it does that very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 I never had an ill will towards the board reckon they were between a rock and a hard place with regards to mopo and the want away players but they've IMO got decent money for players who didn't want to be here and appointing RK looks like a good move (though we can't be sure until he has a dozen games, at least, under his belt). I think they're doing a decent job in tricky circumstances myself . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Extremely good article and an accurate assessment of what has gone on. To those who carp about grammar and structure, this is a press article not an A-level essay. Its about getting over a message and it does that very well. An understanding and application of grammar and structure are not pre-requisites for a professional journalist? I'm sorry, couldn't disagree more. I have no issue with the article's content but to express it in the way he has attempted is beyond amateur and insulting to the audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 If you take what Krueger said before Lambert was sold, it would have been reasonable to expect all the starting XI to be retained and 2 if not 3 signings to be added to the squad. As it is, it looks like we will lose 5 players so to get back to what Krueger said the club needs to make 7 or 8 signings of players of international standard. Does anyone seriously expect that to happen? BTW, is Krueger still on the payroll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/11334165.After_months_of_PR_gaffes__Saints_unveil_their_number_one_weapon_to_unite_disgruntled_fans/?ref=twt the fans are disgruntled according to the Echo, not sure he has read the mood accurately. I think there is perhaps concern that our board is inexperienced but that is all. Disgruntled? Not yet. Concerned? Hell yeah. Disgruntled comes on 1 Sep if we haven't secured quality replacements and have been thrashed by Liverpool on day one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 If you take what Krueger said before Lambert was sold, it would have been reasonable to expect all the starting XI to be retained and 2 if not 3 signings to be added to the squad. As it is, it looks like we will lose 5 players so to get back to what Krueger said the club needs to make 7 or 8 signings of players of international standard. Does anyone seriously expect that to happen? BTW, is Krueger still on the payroll? Dry your eyes you pathetic tart. Only an utter moron, which you seem to be, really expected Shaw & Lallana to stay. Morgan is under pressure from FFF to be playing UCL football and Lovren's is a money grabbing mercenary. The reason we haven't been ra*ed before for players is that they haven't been good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 An understanding and application of grammar and structure are not pre-requisites for a professional journalist? I'm sorry, couldn't disagree more. I have no issue with the article's content but to express it in the way he has attempted is beyond amateur and insulting to the audience. You surely don't think anyone could get a job as a professional journalist without an understanding of grammar, but where you may have got confused, is that journalists don't always need to follow what you learnt in English at school because they are writing a newspaper article, not a page of literature. All that is needed is to get the message over, and the article does that very well. You understood the content enough to say you have no issue with the content. QED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 An understanding and application of grammar and structure are not pre-requisites for a professional journalist? I'm sorry, couldn't disagree more. I have no issue with the article's content but to express it in the way he has attempted is beyond amateur and insulting to the audience. Dunno colin, think how dumb the average Echo reader is and then consider, half of them are even dumber than that! Echo probably know their audience, it wouldn't surprise me if they started writing articles in crayon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Disgruntled? Not yet. Concerned? Hell yeah. Disgruntled comes on 1 Sep if we haven't secured quality replacements and have been thrashed by Liverpool on day one.That seems an entirely fair way of summing it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Dunno colin, think how dumb the average Echo reader is and then consider, half of them are even dumber than that! Echo probably know their audience, it wouldn't surprise me if they started writing articles in crayon. My Dad reads the echo, what are you trying to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Actually - just re-read it. Can't argue with most of the points he has made. I view this as a sound warning of what may come from fans if Les Reed and the Board fail to deliver players and ambition back this summer. I'm trying to remain optimistic. Potentially 5 great players out and one possibly good player in.... I'm wondering though. Not disgruntled .... YET. Good warning though Simon. Hope the Board and our owner read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Dry your eyes you pathetic tart. Only an utter moron, which you seem to be, really expected Shaw & Lallana to stay. Morgan is under pressure from FFF to be playing UCL football and Lovren's is a money grabbing mercenary. The reason we haven't been ra*ed before for players is that they haven't been good enough. Hardly worth replying to offensive insults, but will just point out that you failed to understand what I said. The fact that Krueger made the comments he did, didn't mean that they were believable. That was one of the problems which the article has highlighted. I didn't believe what he said then and presumable, neither did you, but he said it and lost credibility. Don't bother with the apology... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 One of the local journos on twitter was moaning that they didn't get first chance to speak with the manager. Probably something to do with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Hardly worth replying to offensive insults v.wise, only reply to inoffensive insults in future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 My dad reedz the echo, wot are u tryin to say? ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 ... . Very good. Too many letters in 'are' though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 My Dad reads the echo, what are you trying to say? I'm gonna assume he's in the other half colin, the ones who read it ironically and feel happily superior when rolling eyes at bad grammars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 I'm gonna assume he's in the other half colin, the ones who read it ironically and feel happily superior when rolling eyes at bad grammars. I don't know, he always marvels at how I know what they are going to print a day beforehand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Hardly worth replying to offensive insults, but will just point out that you failed to understand what I said. The fact that Krueger made the comments he did, didn't mean that they were believable. That was one of the problems which the article has highlighted. I didn't believe what he said then and presumable, neither did you, but he said it and lost credibility. Don't bother with the apology... Do you honestly believe the intention of Ralph was to deceive the fan base with his comments days before Liverpool came in for Rickie?? If, by some remarkable chance, you do believe that was his intention, maybe you could explain what Ralph had to gain by doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 I'm gonna assume he's in the other half colin, the ones who read it ironically and feel happily superior when rolling eyes at bad grammars. Erm, I assumed the Echo WAS ironic, hence you could read it properly and the irony would already be there. Is th Echo meant to be a serious publication? Really? Next you'll be saying The Onion is a joke website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaroid Saint Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Extremely good article and an accurate assessment of what has gone on. To those who carp about grammar and structure, this is a press article not an A-level essay. Its about getting over a message and it does that very well. Agree to a certain extent. I do get frustrated when people moan about 'one line' paragraphs - as if it is something new and not how ALL journalists and PR reps have been taught to write for the last forty years. Short 'pars', as I have explained before on TSW, are designed to get a message or point across succinctly. I am sure I am not the only NCTJ accredited member on this forum?!? That aside, THIS is not a good example of clear journalism. For example: " Both chairman Ralph Krueger and director*Les Reed have made statements that were quickly used to beat them with when their words were exposed as hollow ones.' This is garbled and tautological, and typical of the entire piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Disgruntled? Not yet. Concerned? Hell yeah. Disgruntled comes on 1 Sep if we haven't secured quality replacements and have been thrashed by Liverpool on day one. Seems to sum it up well. Can't argue with much in the article. We still have time to put things in place to be successful this season, but that time is quickly running out. Lots of faith in Ron, very little in Krueger or the other new board member who seems to have disappeared up his own arse. Fortunately we still have Uncle Les to keep things moving along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appy Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Should I know who Simon Carter is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Do you honestly believe the intention of Ralph was to deceive the fan base with his comments days before Liverpool came in for Rickie?? If, by some remarkable chance, you do believe that was his intention, maybe you could explain what Ralph had to gain by doing so. I can't believe he deliberately set out to deceive because the facts would have quickly given the lie to what he said, as they subsequently did on Lambert's transfer and on releasing the names of the shortlisted manager candidates ( which he said but which was unbelievable when he said it). It could have been poor briefing by whoever helped prepare the script for the interview, but I can't recall whether it was live (probably not) and if recorded, it could have been edited before release. So maybe the amateurish approach went wider that just Krueger. But the fact is that Krueger and presumably, Les Reed, went back on what had been stated to be club policy by letting Lambert go before the appointment of the manager had been completed. Simon Carter has suggested that this set a tone which may have soured the relationship of key players with the club. Hard to see any evidence to the contrary and its now quite a burden for Koeman to rebuild the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Extremely good article and an accurate assessment of what has gone on. To those who carp about grammar and structure, this is a press article not an A-level essay. Its about getting over a message and it does that very well. So you think that somebody who aspires to be a professional journalist does not need to be capable of writing an article at least comparable grammatically to the standard achievable by an A-level student? Interesting. In my opinion, if a journalist isn't capable of writing something that is grammatically correct, then my estimation of their abilities as a journalist are considerably diminished and I find myself giving their views less credence as a result. Regarding his opinion that the fans were digsgruntled about the PR aspects from the club, I suspect that he may have formed that opinion from fans' forums like this one. But that always gives a false impression, because some of the malcontents tend to shout a bit louder than those who see things in a more balanced and circumspect light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Agree to a certain extent. I do get frustrated when people moan about 'one line' paragraphs - as if it is something new and not how ALL journalists and PR reps have been taught to write for the last forty years. Short 'pars', as I have explained before on TSW, are designed to get a message or point across succinctly. I am sure I am not the only NCTJ accredited member on this forum?!? That aside, THIS is not a good example of clear journalism. For example: " Both chairman Ralph Krueger and director*Les Reed have made statements that were quickly used to beat them with when their words were exposed as hollow ones.' This is garbled and tautological, and typical of the entire piece. It's true that punctuation would have made for easier reading but I didn't think you journalists had much respect for punctuation because every comma adds to the character count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 I can't believe he deliberately set out to deceive because the facts would have quickly given the lie to what he said, as they subsequently did on Lambert's transfer and on releasing the names of the shortlisted manager candidates ( which he said but which was unbelievable when he said it). It could have been poor briefing by whoever helped prepare the script for the interview, but I can't recall whether it was live (probably not) and if recorded, it could have been edited before release. So maybe the amateurish approach went wider that just Krueger. But the fact is that Krueger and presumably, Les Reed, went back on what had been stated to be club policy by letting Lambert go before the appointment of the manager had been completed. Simon Carter has suggested that this set a tone which may have soured the relationship of key players with the club. Hard to see any evidence to the contrary and its now quite a burden for Koeman to rebuild the situation. 1- Given that policies do change. Do you believe that SRL should have been prevented from joining Liverpool? 2- Do you disbelieve Lallana's quote about dreaming of joining Liverpool? If you do believe Lallana to be a liar then this may give some credence to what Carter has written, otherwise Carter is wide of the mark and dare I say stretching the truth somewhat. Your whole argument is based on what was said and when it was said. Truth is that sh*t changes and management need to react correctly to this. I'm happy with what the board have done to date, still some work to be done though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 That aside, THIS is not a good example of clear journalism. For example: " Both chairman Ralph Krueger and director*Les Reed have made statements that were quickly used to beat them with when their words were exposed as hollow ones.' This is garbled and tautological, and typical of the entire piece. It should be like this: Both chairman Ralph Krueger and director Les Reed. Made statements. That were quickly used to beat them with. When their words were exposed. As hollow ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 As it is, it looks like we will lose 5 players so to get back to what Krueger said the club needs to make 7 or 8 signings of players of international standard. Does anyone seriously expect that to happen? BTW, is Krueger still on the payroll? Yes. You obviously think not, so perhaps you will tell us why you think that, with no prior evidence that the club have failed to replace players who have left. In the absence of any information to the contrary, I assume that Krueger still holds his position on the board of the club. You seem to doubt it for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaroid Saint Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 It's true that punctuation would have made for easier reading but I didn't think you journalists had much respect for punctuation because every comma adds to the character count. This, is true... ...in most cases. It should be like this: Both chairman Ralph Krueger and director Les Reed. Made statements. That were quickly used to beat them with. When their words were exposed. As hollow ones. It's like e.e. cummings has joined the Echo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 "...supporters asked to pay £20..." and some Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millbrook Saint Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Do you honestly believe the intention of Ralph was to deceive the fan base with his comments days before Liverpool came in for Rickie?? or the scousers heard the comments from Kruegar and saw signing Rickie as a good way of destabling the club as a pre-cursor for the rest of their dealings with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingdomCome Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Maybe he is trying to convey a mood paragraphs Wistful Like a poem contemplative reflection failing to do so refrigerator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 Do you honestly believe the intention of Ralph was to deceive the fan base with his comments days before Liverpool came in for Rickie?? If, by some remarkable chance, you do believe that was his intention, maybe you could explain what Ralph had to gain by doing so. Dont think there was ever any intention to deceive, but it was certainly naive to come out with such things given that most fans knew key players would be off... Sorry but think that was inevitable the moment NC left/ packed it in/sacked/done a bunk (delete based on what you chose to believe) We lost the glue. The one person who managed to convince these players that we had a future better than the past, however realistic or otherwise you consider his 'project', fact remains players did buy in to it... And given the fact we have now lost 3 internationals, probably at least two more... In fact our 5 best players.... Does anyone really still believe ewe wI'll get as good in and be able to build on last season? Ralph was never going to be able to make that sound palatable... But maybe some honesty abut what our new 'ambition' really is would have helped with credibility ...if not popularity. And there in lies his problem...much to Wilde...focused more on popularity than honesty. Saints fans have seen them all and can spot BS at 200 paces. There is still no sign of the 'ambition' he was promising... So for those who like to ridicule NC for his ambition being a load of BS, what can you say about Ralph's 'promises'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offix Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 He's not wrong But he is exaggerating And the lay out of this article Is indeed irritating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellman Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 It really is awful English, embarrassing that any journal should publish it, does,t any editor read the proofs? Unfortunately what he is saying about the club management is painfully true, the fans have been misled, and paid for their season tkts in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 The fans are more worried than disgruntled, I would say, by the slow, slow progress in signing at least one striker, not to mention strengthening other key positions. Otherwise, despite the poor writing, the article describes the present situation fairly accurately, alas. We need to move on, faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 11 July, 2014 Share Posted 11 July, 2014 the fans have been misled I genuinely think that all the "promises" ralph & les are accused of breaking are cos fans read things into statements & interviews which ain't really there. I don't feel like ralph or les promised me anything, certainly not that Ponch would stay or that no-one would be sold, or that all sales on hold till new manager, or whatever the fuck else they're being accused of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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