shurlock Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 Wait hang on... If we finish 7th and Liverpool 8th, we still miss out if Palace win the Cup don't we? Exactly. Not sure where this assumption of United not finishing 5th has come from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donatello Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 Exactly. Yeah, I can't see it either (unless Palace lose the final) :S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 i have literally no idea what results mean to our european hopes, so am just gonna wait til its all over on sunday and then worry about it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwsaint Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 In case I haven't already mentioned it on here, Saints need to finish above one of Liverpool or West Ham to guarantee European football. Finishing above Man U will happen if we win and they lose, but if we're below West Ham and Liverpool even if we're above Man U (i.e. in 7th) then whoever wins the FA Cup takes the third Europa League place and we miss out either way. Makes Chelsea's lead all the more important, because if Liverpool don't win today and we win Sunday Liverpool can't catch us so we're in Europe irrespective of what Man U and West Ham do. At the risk of reopening the debate, I am not sure that this is correct. There are 4 CL places and 2 EL places guaranteed for top 6, as Man C won the league cup. If we finish 7th, then we get EL place if either Man U win the cup and finish above us or Liverpool win EL and finish above us. The only way that 8th gets into Europe if it's Liverpool and they win EL. So as it stands win on Saturday and we can't finish lower than 7th, and if West Ham don't win at Stoke then we finish 6th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 What happens if United finish 5th, wham 6th and us 7th. Won't United winning the FA cup guarantee us european football. In other words, it's still out of our hands? I think that's right. One EL spot for the league (5th) and one each for the two cups, with the League Cup one given now to sixth. Yesterday's result left us really needing a MUFC Cup win to be certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamplemousse Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 Finishing 6th would be nice, but even if we finish 6th or 7th, we'll need Man Utd to win the FA Cup. Finish 6th and Man Utd win, then we qualify directly for the group stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 Just saw the goal. Very nice solo goal Hazard- ruined spurs season, now helping us with europe. Kinda liking the dude now yeah but if you're a Chelsea fan you must be wondering were Hazard has been all season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 Not if Liverpool win the Europa Cup I believe We want to finish above Liverpool whatever they do in the Europa, because... If they have a Europa place via the League and win the EL, it is converted into a CL place and not passed onto anyone else in the Prem. So 7th won't be good enough. If they have an EL place and don't win the EL Final they keep the EL place - one fewer place for us to get, and if we finish below West Ham as well we will miss out on Europe because the other place will be either Man U via League position or whoever is the FA Cup winner. If they haven't got a Europa place we're above them and we have one, and whether they win the EL or not doesn't affect us because the only way an EL qualification place is lost is if Liverpool have one already and win the EL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 Finishing 6th would be nice, but even if we finish 6th or 7th, we'll need Man Utd to win the FA Cup. Finish 6th and Man Utd win, then we qualify directly for the group stages. *want, not need, if we're 6th. Also if we come 7th and Man U 8th, it doesn't matter who wins the FA Cup, we're screwed either way because Liverpool and West Ham get the other EL places (unless Liverpool get a CL place from winning the EL, in which case that EL place disappears). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 Finishing 6th would be nice, but even if we finish 6th or 7th, we'll need Man Utd to win the FA Cup. Finish 6th and Man Utd win, then we qualify directly for the group stages. Actually regardless of were we finish now it's been a cracking second half of the season with some really memorable games. The come back against Liverpool, doing Man U away, Citeh at home, Chelsea away, Spurs away humiliating Arsenal at home it's been pretty good really. Of course I wouldn't say no to Europa if we get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSUN Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 Forgetting Europa for a second, I'd just be delighted if we finished above Liverpool and Chelsea this season! Much leg pulling and teasing would be dished out by me, to my friends who support either club. (I'll gloat to Chelsea fans after this game has finished to avoid tempting fate.) On a side note, has this site been hacked? Since I went Registered User it's been fine with the adverts, but today there are some pretty aggressive adverts that keep linking me to the App Store and other sites... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabrone Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 If we get 5th\6th we qualify for Europa outright, if we get 7th we need Utd to win the cup, if we get 8th I don't think we get Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 Sunderland on FIRE Have to ask the question as to whether Joel Robles has been bought tonight. Awful for the first, and just handed them the 3rd too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 In other news - Sunderland are smashing Everton 3-0. Looks like they are staying up then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 I wish we were Everton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 I'll miss my trip to Norwich Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 Sunderland on FIRE Everyone is on fire against Everton, they're sh*te. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 I wish we were Everton. Rather have KD. In goal than Robles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 Everyone is on fire against Everton, they're sh*te. apart from us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 Everyone is on fire against Everton, they're sh*te. Martinez will be gone before next season Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 At the risk of reopening the debate, I am not sure that this is correct. There are 4 CL places and 2 EL places guaranteed for top 6, as Man C won the league cup. If we finish 7th, then we get EL place if either Man U win the cup and finish above us or Liverpool win EL and finish above us. The only way that 8th gets into Europe if it's Liverpool and they win EL. So as it stands win on Saturday and we can't finish lower than 7th, and if West Ham don't win at Stoke then we finish 6th. I'd like to know how we would finish above West Ham and Liverpool and come 7th. If we finish behind Man U and West Ham with Liverpool 8th we're ok but it depends on Man U winning the FA Cup, if we finish behind Man U and Liverpool with West Ham 8th, same thing, but we can't finish below both of them and qualify for Europe because the FA Cup winner gets an EL place and in that case 7th won't because 5th and 6th will be (in either order) West Ham and Liverpool (whose EL winning CL place doesn't open up an EL place for anyone else). 8th will qualify for Europe if Man U are 8th and win the FA Cup, but it won't have anything to do with the League places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 (edited) If tonight's result stands (or is a draw) and we beat palace, is this correct? If we finish 7th, we need United to win the FA cup and Liverpool to lose in the EL (assuming united finish 5th) If we finish 6th, we need United to win the FA cup assuming Liverpool win the EL (and united finish 5th) If we finish 6th and Liverpool lose the EL final, the fa cup is irrelevant, we qualify (assuming united finish 5th) Edited 11 May, 2016 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 Norwich going down fighting to little to late though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints foreva Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 Is this correct? If we finish 7th (ahead of liverpool), we need United to win the FA cup and Liverpool to lose in the EL (assuming united finish 5th) If we finish 6th, we need United to win the FA cup assuming Liverpool win the EL (and united finish 5th) If we finish 6th and Liverpool lose the EL final, the fa cup is irrelevant, we qualify (assuming united finish 5th) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Saint Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 Jeez, my head hurts just reading about these possibilities....!! Roll on Sunday.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golac's Iron Gonads Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 This Europe thing, can someone just clarify that there is no permutation whereby I will need to want Liverpool to beat Seville for Saints to get European football, because I'm not sure I could do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 If tonight's result stands and we beat palace, is this correct? If we finish 7th, we need United to win the FA cup and Liverpool to lose in the EL (assuming united finish 5th) If we finish 6th, we need United to win the FA cup assuming Liverpool win the EL (and united finish 5th) If we finish 6th and Liverpool lose the EL final, the fa cup is irrelevant, we qualify (assuming united finish 5th) Liverpool winning the Europa League has no effect. We finish 5th or 6th we qualify. We finish 7th, we need Man Utd to finish 5th or 6th and win the FA Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 If tonight's result stands (or is a draw) and we beat palace, is this correct? If we finish 7th, we need United to win the FA cup and Liverpool to lose in the EL (assuming united finish 5th) If we finish 6th, we need United to win the FA cup assuming Liverpool win the EL (and united finish 5th) If we finish 6th and Liverpool lose the EL final, the fa cup is irrelevant, we qualify (assuming united finish 5th) I thought we get EL if we finish sixth come what may - we get Man City's league cup spot. The EL spot only disappears if Liverpool win the EL if that spot is occupied by Liverpool. It doesn't come from another club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suewhistle Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 i have literally no idea what results mean to our european hopes, so am just gonna wait til its all over on sunday and then worry about it all Yep. Even with all the informed posts from our more expert posters I read them and my eyes glaze over. I'm just waiting for Sunday and the Northam starting up a rendition of "we're all going on a European tour, a European tour.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 Liverpool winning the Europa League has no effect. We finish 5th or 6th we qualify. We finish 7th, we need Man Utd to finish 5th or 6th and win the FA Cup. Cheers. That's what I initially thought too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 I love that flow chart, especially the bit at the bottom. The Europa League Final result is completely irrelevant to everyone except Liverpool. Oh, and Sevilla I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 Okay.... 5th - Europa League 6th - Europa League 7th - Europa League IF Utd win the Cup Finish below West Ham AND Liverpool - No combination of results will get us into Europe Europa League final has zero baring of Saints, regardless of any league outcome. That's about as simple as I can put it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 (edited) I thought we get EL if we finish sixth come what may - we get Man City's league cup spot. The EL spot only disappears if Liverpool win the EL if that spot is occupied by Liverpool. It doesn't come from another club. Yep thanks. that's right. Edited 11 May, 2016 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 Okay.... 5th - Europa League 6th - Europa League 7th - Europa League IF Utd win the Cup Finish below West Ham AND Liverpool - No combination of results will get us into Europe Europa League final has zero bearing on Saints, regardless of any league outcome. That's about as simple as I can put it. Spot on. The 3rd Qualifying Round and Group stage stuff is covered by the flow chart too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 Spot on. The 3rd Qualifying Round and Group stage stuff is covered by the flow chart too. how many qualifying rounds are there before the group stages? 3? Meaning just 1 home and away tie to win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nta786 Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 how many qualifying rounds are there before the group stages? 3? Meaning just 1 home and away tie to win? Same as last season: After 3rd qualifying round, there is the fourth and final round known as the play off round before the group stage. We lost at that stage last season to FC Midjtylland :/ Hopefully one step further at least next time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 Spot on. The 3rd Qualifying Round and Group stage stuff is covered by the flow chart too. The flowchart is clear. But a Liverpool loss or draw doesn't mean it's in our hands, as you stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 So - could somebody explain to me the 2nd phase offside rule please, so that I can at least understand one post that I read tonight...??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 The flowchart is clear. But a Liverpool loss or draw doesn't mean it's in our hands, as you stated. No. Assuming we did our bit and beat Palace, we would need one of either: Bompey win at OT on the last day (at which point the FA Cup final becomes irrelevant) Utd win the FA Cup West Ham draw or lose their last game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 Traore's been decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintTex Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 this has been the clearest explanation I have seen. come Sunday, the two biggest things to root for: We win Wham loses or draws ManU losing would be nice but not as important as the other two happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 (edited) No. Assuming we did our bit and beat Palace, we would need one of either: Bompey win at OT on the last day (at which point the FA Cup final becomes irrelevant) Utd win the FA Cup West Ham draw or lose their last game. Ta. It's all crystal-clear. You deserve your own sticky on this Edited 11 May, 2016 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 this has been the clearest explanation I have seen. come Sunday, the two biggest things to root for: We win Wham loses or draws ManU losing would be nice but not as important as the other two happening. A Utd loss is as important as a West Ham draw/loss. Just a lot less likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 So - could somebody explain to me the 2nd phase offside rule please, so that I can at least understand one post that I read tonight...??? If you're playing against a big club, and score, but someone was in an offside position, they were intefering and it's offside. If they score, but someone was in an offside position, he's not intefering and it stands as a goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 If you're playing against a big club, and score, but someone was in an offside position, they were intefering and it's offside. If they score, but someone was in an offside position, he's not intefering and it stands as a goal. Cheers Jimmy - I feel empowered and enlightened to have learned at least something from the last 12 pages...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 So - could somebody explain to me the 2nd phase offside rule please, so that I can at least understand one post that I read tonight...??? I've just assumed the officials ignore the laws and interpretations since I saw the first Spurs goal on the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 I've just assumed the officials ignore the laws and interpretations since I saw the first Spurs goal on the weekend. Glad I'm not the only one (even with my Saints tinted specs on) who thought that there was clear interference by Kane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Ash Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 5Th is a bit optimistic but hope for 6th and hope United win the cup. Straight into the group stages would be fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 A Utd loss is as important as a West Ham draw/loss. Just a lot less likely. Not as important as a West Ham loss - Man U finishing 5th means the next Prem place through the League would be for EL Group stages provided they also won the FA Cup, whilst West Ham being 5th means the next EL Prem place would be 3rd Qualifying Round because the FA Cup winner would get the other Group stage place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 11 May, 2016 Share Posted 11 May, 2016 Glad I'm not the only one (even with my Saints tinted specs on) who thought that there was clear interference by Kane. He was interfering with the defence and keeper's positioning, which is specifically why they changed the bloody interpretation in the summer. Even if he hadn't gone towards the ball he was offside, and when he went towards the ball he was offside by the definitions from the previous 4 or so years too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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