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JWP & his annual time to "kick on"

Saint Charlie

By Saint Charlie,
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imported_Saint_G

imported_Saint_G

Posted
Posted
Why on earth does he need to go to the Championship? He is 21 and has already played over 100 games for a team that is now an established top half side of the Premier League. Going to the Championship now would be a regression, not an aid to development. In order to be a top 6 side like we are we need a squad of quality players, Ward-Prowse won't start many games, but is still very useful at Premier League level despite what many Saints fans think and only 5 Saints players (van Dijk, S.Davis, Mane, Tadic & Fonte) featured in more games than JWP this season. If he left who fills the gametime he would be used for next season in the first team? Its central midfielders like Harrison Reed that need a loan, not JWP who has proven his worth in the Premier League. Just because he isn't a first choice starter, that doesn't mean he isn't of good quality in this league, Pochettino and Koeman seem to agree.

At this stage in his career he needs regular games, how can he do that from the bench with 20 mins here and there. Can't see a lower half Prem team taking him on loan, so top half Championship would seem logical.

 

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eelpie

eelpie

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Posted

Perhaps the reason why JWP is getting less starts this season could simply be that the quality of football played by the team has been improving and the squad gets better as we climb the table. Competition for places in the team is that much greater.

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Katalinic

Katalinic

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Posted
The problem doesn't lie with JWP but with Koeman. Like Mourinho Koeman prefers more established players.

Doubt even Luke Shaw would have got a look in under Koeman.

 

Yeah, like you said in January, Koeman has to go and bring in Pearson or Allardyce, utterly terrible manager, doesn't know what he is doing...obviously.

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david in sweden

david in sweden

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. What type of midfielder is he?

 

He isn't a defensive player and isn't an attacking player. He is a technically good passer, but not a creative passer and doesn't have the touches Davis does to get out of tight spaces. Not a tackler, not a presence but does have good energy. Couldn't replace Wanyama, couldn't replace Davis and isn't as effective as Romeu.

 

2. Physical limitations are tough to overcome

 

He isn't quick, nor strong, not naturally agressive. He never will be. He doesn't win enough duels to play deep unless its in a slow tempo passing game. He hasn't got that burst to get away from a player further up (evidenced against City when he was 1v1 with Mangala and wasn't confident to even try and beat him).

 

60895d1e5bcfa6cd11509471963f52a5.jpg[/quote)

 

....and of course - you're right! Good observations.

 

I don't think anyone could expect see 5' 8" JWP ......replacing either Wanyama or Romeu.

 

.or indeed.....at this point in time ...even Steven Davis, a vastly more experienced player 10 years his senior, with over 80 international caps already to his credit.

 

In Ward-Prowse's defence, we ought to remember that he is still only 21, but is captain of the England U21 side and a leading figure in his generation of footballers.

 

I am one of those people who admires Steven Davis' play (although there are some on this site who don't ). He will in time, move on, and I expect to see JWP come into the team ...not as a replacement for Wanyama or Romeu....but in the Steven Davis role. In time, he may even surpass Davis' goal scoring record for the club.

 

You are also right to say that he hasn't been outstanding in many of his appearances for Saints, but there are few other players in his age group who have clocked up so many Premiership apps. as JWP....and indeed a few who find it hard to get off the bench ....let alone start games for their clubs.

 

In short, because he has been around 4 seasons, and not yet become a permanent choice means only that he ..(like some of us)...need to be patient for a while longer.

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Marino

Marino

Posted
Posted
Similar to my thoughts on the Isgrove post, I think JWP could really do with a 20+ game season in the Championship. Toughen him up a bit (he's never going to be a ball winning DM, but could still do with learning how to mix it up a bit better).

 

Sitting in front of the back four perhaps, and spraying those long raking passes, a la Schneiderlin who grew into that role?

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david in sweden

david in sweden

Posted
Posted
Perhaps the reason why JWP is getting less starts this season could simply be that the quality of football played by the team has been improving and the squad gets better as we climb the table. Competition for places in the team is that much greater.

 

Exactly. Koeman said as much in his recent interview. With a bench almost full of international players there are more options, and much harder for U21's to get in.

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

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Posted
The picture isn't accurate - jwp is leaning forward while Sadio is leaning back.

 

Barely enough to make any difference. JWP is clearly taller.

 

What is sadios height? I thought you would have known.

 

The Saints OS says JWP is 5 foot 8 and Mane is 5 foot 9, which is clearly wrong as JWP is taller and they may not have updated JWP's height after a growth spurt.

 

He now isn't the tiny weakling some Saints fans continue to make him out to be.

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shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted
Barely enough to make any difference. JWP is clearly taller.

 

 

 

The Saints OS says JWP is 5 foot 8 and Mane is 5 foot 9, which is clearly wrong as JWP is taller and they may not have updated JWP's height after a growth spurt.

 

He now isn't the tiny weakling some Saints fans continue to make him out to be.

 

Jesus wept.

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a1ex2001

a1ex2001

Posted
Posted

He reminds me of Matt Oakley solid but unspectacular will probably play for us for ten years amass 500 appearances 12 goals and a great testimonial. Academy players will go one of three ways 1. Great players we will have for 1-2 seasons before they leave for 'champions league football' 2. Decent pro's who will stay and do a job ie JWP 3. Not good enough will wash out to the lower leagues and generally disappear apart from the occasional late bloomer who makes us look dumb.

 

JWP will never be Paul scholes but that doesn't stop him doing a job for the club so quit moaning!

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SuperSAINT

SuperSAINT

Posted
Posted
I'm going to waste my 3rd and final post of the day on you. Rather than meaningless comments like that, why don't you explain what you think I've said that is wrong and why?

 

This is breaking news to me! I had no idea MLG wasn't a full member!

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the_emu

the_emu

Posted
Posted

Their heights are straight out of the OS, not wiki. Images from season before last show Mane and JWP almost the same.

 

Based on the image MLG showed, (and assuming the sponsorship panels are straight) there are two logical explanations...

 

1. JWP has had a growth spurt and is now taller than his recorded height. Plausible

2. JWP is standing on a box.

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sotonist

sotonist

Posted
Posted
Their heights are straight out of the OS, not wiki. Images from season before last show Mane and JWP almost the same.

 

Based on the image MLG showed, (and assuming the sponsorship panels are straight) there are two logical explanations...

 

1. JWP has had a growth spurt and is now taller than his recorded height. Plausible

2. JWP is standing on a box.

https://web.archive.org/web/20141007032137/http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/team/player-profile/morgan-schneiderlin/4

Height:5'11" (181 cm)

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20141007100041/http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/team/player-profile/victor-wanyama/12

Height:6'2" (188 cm)

stduzebwno.JPG

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Toadhall Saint

Toadhall Saint

Posted
Posted
Barely enough to make any difference. JWP is clearly taller.

 

 

 

The Saints OS says JWP is 5 foot 8 and Mane is 5 foot 9, which is clearly wrong as JWP is taller and they may not have updated JWP's height after a growth spurt.

 

He now isn't the tiny weakling some Saints fans continue to make him out to be.

 

Don't you just love MLG. Works everytime!

 

BTW - JWP is also in the foreground where as Sadio is more in the background.

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buctootim

buctootim

Posted
Posted
BTW - JWP is also in the foreground where as Sadio is more in the background.

 

Exactly. Bizarre argument. You only have to at the logos to see those behind JWP appear bigger than those behind Mane. Its just the camera angle.

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Saint_Tony

Saint_Tony

Posted
Posted

Bottom line for me is he just isn't that good. Sure, he has good delivery from set pieces, but offers very little else. MLG can bang on about his age and stats of how many games he started, I'm more interested in whether or not we have a quality player on our hands. The answer is know. He's done well for the u21s for England, but there's a reason he never gets linked with a move away. I think he may stay with us another season or 2, before finally dropping down to the Championship, which is about his level. Seems like a good kid, but we can't keep waiting for him to come good.

 

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

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Saint IQ

Saint IQ

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Posted
Don't you just love MLG. Works everytime!

 

BTW - JWP is also in the foreground where as Sadio is more in the background.

 

Yeah also Mane could of taken off his boots, Prowse could still have them on. I think they're the same height.

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted

He's only played so many times for the U21's because the better players go into the first team . Not a patch on Alli, Dier, Barclay, Sterling , who are all similar age .

 

May end up doing an Andrew Surman and maybe get a couple of hundred games for a lowly Premiership club , but nowhere near the level we want .

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captainchris

captainchris

Posted
Posted
Yet another slightly disguised moan about something/someone saints...You never let up...

 

Can you not do/say something positive about a player or a club related thing?

 

You are the negative one! You are the one who always slags people off for their comment and opinion - have an opinion of your own instead of running people down who have a mind of their own and make constructive comment....

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ALWAYS_SFC

ALWAYS_SFC

Posted
Posted
You are the negative one! You are the one who always slags people off for their comment and opinion - have an opinion of your own instead of running people down who have a mind of their own and make constructive comment....

 

Chris...Chrissy boy.....do shut up :D

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  • 3 months later...
New Forest Steve

New Forest Steve

Posted
Posted (edited)
JWP must be doing something right at international level.

 

You're right, they seem to rate him highly and in the few snippets I've seen of the under 21's, he seems pretty creative for them. Maybe it's taking him longer to find his feet with us because of the pressure and intensity of the premiership.

 

I don't think we should be writing him of just yet, I think he's got more natural talent than people are giving him credit for. He's only 21, maybe he just needs a couple more years to fully develop, physically.

Edited by New Forest Steve
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baggytrousers

baggytrousers

Posted
Posted
12/13 PL starts: 4

13/14 PL starts: 16

14/15 PL starts: 16

15/16 PL starts: 14

 

He will probably be quite frustrated at how his season has gone personally I would imagine.

 

Two key barriers for him IMO:

 

1. What type of midfielder is he?

 

He isn't a defensive player and isn't an attacking player. He is a technically good passer, but not a creative passer and doesn't have the touches Davis does to get out of tight spaces. Not a tackler, not a presence but does have good energy. Couldn't replace Wanyama, couldn't replace Davis and isn't as effective as Romeu.

 

2. Physical limitations are tough to overcome

 

He isn't quick, nor strong, not naturally agressive. He never will be. He doesn't win enough duels to play deep unless its in a slow tempo passing game. He hasn't got that burst to get away from a player further up (evidenced against City when he was 1v1 with Mangala and wasn't confident to even try and beat him).

 

Will he kick on?

 

He is in danger of being a set play sub, used when we are behind and looking for good delivery near the end.

 

Possibly harsh, but its hard to see him suddenly starting 20+ PL games next season unless we have big injuries. Which is fine, they aren't all going to be Bale or Shaw quality.

 

60895d1e5bcfa6cd11509471963f52a5.jpg

 

I seem to recall West Ham fans raising the same sort of complaints about a nothingy sort of midfielder they had who at the time didn't seem to have an obvious strength :

 

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11668/2385820

 

Even though coaches at different levels appreciated his all round game the fans were impatient, just couldn't see it and got on his back, thinking his place in the team was pure nepotism, much like a lot of Saints fans think JWP getting a game is a bad call by the manager.

 

Not saying JWP will necessarily be anywhere near this good but there's a salient lesson here about fans writing off one of their own before that player has developed enough to truly establish themselves.

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted

A selection of tweets on JWP's after last night's game (yes, I know... it's only twitter....what do they know? blah blah blah) :)

 

fenny ‏@LukeFenn5 (Arsenal fan)

James ward prowse ran the game last night. Get him in the first team just for his set pieces #EnglandU21s ⚽️

 

Bayo ‏@Da_MoNasI (Chelsea fan)

As if any German u-21 has a better ball delivery than ward prowse

 

Chris Collins ‏@ChrisC182 (Man Utd fan)

Just watched @England U21's highlights. @MarcusRashford will make headlines but James Ward-Prowse has a Beckham-esque delivery #YoungLions

 

Dobbs ‏@peopleschampfc (Spurs fan)

when was the last time you saw an #England player hit dead balls with the quality of Ward-Prowse? #ENGU21 #ENGNOR #3lions

 

Stuart Phillips ‏@Stuart757 (Ipswich fan)

While Rashford rightly gets the headlines. The heartbeat of the team for me was James Ward-Prowse #engu21

 

Radityo Wicaksono ‏@Tyo_EFC (Everton fan)

James Ward-Prowse's corners and free kicks are absolutey gorgeous

 

James Kindred ‏@James_Kindred (Ipswich fan)

Think Ward-Prowse is underrated. Thought he was brilliant in cm although Rashford will take the headlines for his hat-trick. #England

 

Ben Halliday ‏@benhallidayCUFC (Colchester fan)

I'd have ward prowse in that England squad in a heartbeat. He is better than Henderson and his set piece play is exceptional

 

Louis Duncan ‏@louis_duncan (Chelsea fan)

Ward prowse is crazy from a dead ball

 

Jordan Bennett ‏@joooordyb (Chelsea fan)

Baker, loftus-cheek, rashford, chalobah, ward prowse we have some unreal youngsters coming through #YoungLions

 

Andy Hood ‏@andyh2305 (Man Utd fan)

Surely can't be long until ward-prowse gets an England call-up - I'd pick him over Henderson anyday #ENGU21

 

Mike Harrison ‏@Mike_Harrison_ (Bristol City fan)

Ward Prowse should be in the senior squad, his service alone is a good enough reason

 

Gully man kels ‏@bl0ndew4nker (Wolves fan)

When is Ward-Prowse gonna get his call up to the senior squad then? Get on them set pieces instead of Rooney

 

chris lampett ‏@Lampett88 (Rotherham fan)

ward prowse has one of the best deliveries in europe what a ball that was. ward prowse is 50 times the player jordan henderson is

 

Lewis Taylor ‏@Biglewie22 (Macclesfield Town fan)

@GaryLineker rashford ward prowse Redmond loftus cheek for eng senior? Been on fire for u21 surely they deserve it. #anotherlevel #3lions

 

DeulofeuOnTheBreak ‏@FinKitch (Everton fan)

Just gonna throw this out there. Rashford, WardProwse, Redmond and LoftusCheek should be in the next senior squad along with ROSS BARKLEY!

 

Kimo C. ‏@KimoCharles (Chelsea fan)

Redmond & Ward-Prowse for England? Someone should run it by Rooney and see if he approves.

 

Chris Nicholson ‏@Chrisnicho92 (Everton fan)

James Ward Prowse is twice the player Jordan Henderson is #EnglandU21s

 

Sam Carney ‏@samcarney19 (Man Utd fan)

Think it's about time Nathan Redmond was given a chance in the senior set-up, watching this. Possibly Ward-Prowse too.

 

Ben Spratt ‏@bensprattjourn (Newcastle fan)

I like this England U21 team. Rashford's the real deal; Ward-Prowse and Redmond both very good, too.

 

Jim ‏@Pereiraphile (Man Utd fan)

Ward-Prowse is unreal

 

V ‏@Vthota111 (Man Utd fan)

Ward-Prowse is so good man

 

neil walton ‏@neilwaltonHJ (Leeds Utd fan)

@GaryLineker I wonder if some of our u21s should be in the main squad ward prowse brilliant crosser and rashford who is our best finisher

 

KLJ ‏@KyranJones1 (Chelsea fan)

James Ward-Prowse deliveries are just beautiful to watch

 

Cass ‏@jackcassidy1997 (Chelsea fan)

James Ward-Prowse has gotta be up there with the best when it comes to set piece deliveries, he's class #YoungLions

 

ㅤ ‏@DeGeaed (Man Utd fan)

Honestly think the national team have a bright future. Ballers like Rashford, Redmond, Ward-Prowse, Grealish will win us the World Cup

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igsey

igsey

Posted
Posted
We have not seen the best of JWP yet.

 

I see glimpses of brilliance but he can fade away in games.

 

Hoping he add a few goals to his game, bit more aggression would also help

 

The few times we have seen him as a more aggressive midfielder he's been excellent. The 3-2 Liverpool game last season springs to mind.

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