Toadhall Saint Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 Why are some people turning around and saying it was the club's fault? RK said that he often worked on 1 year extensions and that once his contract ran out he would look to do that. But, given what the club and RK and others have said, the extension discussions were going well until the £7m came along. It really isn't that hard to understand. Exactly - the club are not to blame. Everton maybe - RK definitely imho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 Hopefully all the bluenoses on here have now gone back down their holes. Unfortunately my son in law is an Everton fan, so for me this will drag out a bit longer. ( Mind you, he wanted Emery or de Boer ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 Some rewriting of history going on here with claims that the club would have sacked him if he didn't sign a new contract. What a complete load of rubbish. Knowing he was off we would have got our ducks lined up and if there was a 'Pellagrini dead duck' effect, causing the team to lose a lot of games we may have pulled the plug at that point, but not a chance we would have sacked him this summer. Everton coming in for him now may have been a blessing as we avoid that situation of him turning down a contract and us being in limbo. We will never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayrivers Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 Some rewriting of history going on here with claims that the club would have sacked him if he didn't sign a new contract. What a complete load of rubbish. Knowing he was off we would have got our ducks lined up and if there was a 'Pellagrini dead duck' effect, causing the team to lose a lot of games we may have pulled the plug at that point, but not a chance we would have sacked him this summer. Everton coming in for him now may have been a blessing as we avoid that situation of him turning down a contract and us being in limbo. We will never know. I think if it was looking unlikely he was going to sign new contract then this is a good outcome for the club, especially given the £5m compensation! Get a new man in now rather than next season and bag a few quid for their wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 By accounts though he WAS looking likely to sign, hence why Reed did the ill fated YT video. Seems we will no be making an imminent appointment also, which backs this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JxgrSaint Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 By accounts though he WAS looking likely to sign, hence why Reed did the ill fated YT video. Seems we will no be making an imminent appointment also, which backs this up. The club really needs to appoint someone to spray Les with a water bottle if he so much as looks at a video camera. Koeman, Poch, Clyne etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 The club really needs to appoint someone to spray Les with a water bottle if he so much as looks at a video camera. Koeman, Poch, Clyne etc.... Still preferable to Ralph speaking publically about football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai27 Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 Still preferable to Ralph speaking publically about football. Just as credible though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 Just as credible though... I guess Reed would argue that what he has said has been true at the time of speaking. Its naiveity rather than calculated misinformation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai27 Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 I guess Reed would argue that what he has said has been true at the time of speaking. Its naiveity rather than calculated misinformation. This is true, but why take the risk? His track record of jumping the gun via YouTube videos is abysmal. I enjoy hearing about the club structure etc but I can do without if it means the club saves a bit of face... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 This is true, but why take the risk? His track record of jumping the gun via YouTube videos is abysmal. I enjoy hearing about the club structure etc but I can do without if it means the club saves a bit of face... Agree. The risk backfired. Better to practice what they often preach and just communicate when things are done. Thats why in this case I think it was a genuine surprise to Saints, we were expecting Koeman to be here for at least one more year, and therefore different to the MP situation where they could plan ahead. We monitor Managers all the time but its different monitoring for summer 2017 to suddenly needing someone in 3 weeks time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 By accounts though he WAS looking likely to sign, hence why Reed did the ill fated YT video. Seems we will no be making an imminent appointment also, which backs this up. Yep I think Koeman changed his mind very suddenly as soon as Everton gave him 7 million reasons to do so. Up to that point everything was going according to plan as far as the club are concerned. All these ITK backroom issues and such like coming to light come across as a bit of face saving from the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 What do you recon the hold up is ? Koeman stalling or a demand from us to wait until we get someone sorted ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 A salient little detail that I missed earlier: Les Reed is understood to have read about Koeman’s change of heart in the press, before having it confirmed by Bill Kenwright, the Everton chairman. Classy. http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/14544812.Saints_not_interested_in_De_Boer__reveals_agent/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 What do you recon the hold up is ? Koeman stalling or a demand from us to wait until we get someone sorted ? Probably the fact Ronald is on a boat somewhere in the med.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 Yep I think Koeman changed his mind very suddenly as soon as Everton gave him 7 million reasons to do so. Up to that point everything was going according to plan as far as the club are concerned. All these ITK backroom issues and such like coming to light come across as a bit of face saving from the club. In any club some players will dislike the Manager. We came 6th so it obviously wasn't a poisonous environment and I would imagine in general more woukd be sad to see him go than suddenly delighted. The idea that Mane, sat in Senegal suddenly checks the internet, sees Koeman is leaving and then instantly feels happier, is quite amusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 Jesus Christ what is that all about. The kid's 3 he probably reacts like that when you tell him has to eat his carrots... Quite Rightly so, Carrots are the worst of all the vegetables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 Quite Rightly so, Carrots are the worst of all the vegetables. You should make a vid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyOldBoy Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 Saints clearly want him gone.... I think its because his initial contract is full of escape clauses and so would the next one etc etc... Everton came knocking at the right time and everyone wins...except perhaps Everton who think they are getting the polished article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 I guess Reed would argue that what he has said has been true at the time of speaking. Its naiveity rather than calculated misinformation. Why naivety? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 By accounts though he WAS looking likely to sign, hence why Reed did the ill fated YT video. # conspiracy theory klaxon # Maybe (in a far fetched kinda way), Reed discovered that Koeman was about to do a u-turn on his contract talks with Saints due to having his head turned by the Everton offer. So, the club came up with the idea of Reed doing a "contract talks going well" YouTube video so that the outside world (including us fans) will see that Koeman is the 'villain' in all this and that the club have done nothing wrong. Without Reed's video, would we have known how far down the line the contract talks were between Saints and Koeman? So, rather than the Reed video being an embarrassment to the club, it could be viewed as designed to show Koeman in a bad light.... No? Ok, perhaps not. I think I'll have to trade these tablets in for something more powerful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 # conspiracy theory klaxon # Maybe (in a far fetched kinda way), Reed discovered that Koeman was about to do a u-turn on his contract talks with Saints due to having his head turned by the Everton offer. So, the club came up with the idea of Reed doing a "contract talks going well" YouTube video so that the outside world (including us fans) will see that Koeman is the 'villain' in all this and that the club have done nothing wrong. Without Reed's video, would we have known how far down the line the contract talks were between Saints and Koeman? So, rather than the Reed video being an embarrassment to the club, it could be viewed as showing up Koeman in a bad light. No? Ok, perhaps not. I think I'll have to trade these tablets in for something more powerful Been my view all along to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamplemousse Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 # conspiracy theory klaxon # Maybe (in a far fetched kinda way), Reed discovered that Koeman was about to do a u-turn on his contract talks with Saints due to having his head turned by the Everton offer. So, the club came up with the idea of Reed doing a "contract talks going well" YouTube video so that the outside world (including us fans) will see that Koeman is the 'villain' in all this and that the club have done nothing wrong. Without Reed's video, would we have known how far down the line the contract talks were between Saints and Koeman? So, rather than the Reed video being an embarrassment to the club, it could be viewed as designed to show Koeman in a bad light.... No? Ok, perhaps not. I think I'll have to trade these tablets in for something more powerful I'd love it to be true, but I can't see Les Reed being that manipulative. Unless it was Krueger's idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 Well I think sacking one agent and appointing another mid way through negotiating a new contract would probably have said rather a lot to Reed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 Well I think sacking one agent and appointing another mid way through negotiating a new contract would probably have said rather a lot to Reed. Indeed. Chronologically, what event came first? The news that Koeman had changed agents or the Les Reed 'contract talks going well' video...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 Change of agent on or around 24th May Reed video 26th May says that EFC were after him mid May. Contract talks would have started a while back I would have thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 Change of agent on or around 24th May Reed video 26th May Bingo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 (edited) That's fine, but.....I think that the video was put out to try and pressure RK into signing for us rather then jumping, and not to save face or to portray RK as a "villain". Reed could have been honest about it (presuming he knew it was going Pete Tong) and said that EFC were offering £6-7m a year which SFC could not match. We all understand the ways of the world, and we all know what RK has said in the press what he has about not moving for money etc and honouring his contract etc. So there really is little reason to be conspiratorial as I am not sure anyone is seeking this for anything other than what it is. Money and EFC offering a lot more. The Lying Dutchman has supposedly done what he said he wouldn't so no portrayals of villainy are needed, and Reed need not save face as he Edited 9 June, 2016 by angelman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonist Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 By accounts though he WAS looking likely to sign, hence why Reed did the ill fated YT video. Seems we will no be making an imminent appointment also, which backs this up. doing the video suggests to me that Koeman was dithering and Reed was attempting to push him over the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Johnson Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 # conspiracy theory klaxon # Maybe (in a far fetched kinda way), Reed discovered that Koeman was about to do a u-turn on his contract talks with Saints due to having his head turned by the Everton offer. So, the club came up with the idea of Reed doing a "contract talks going well" YouTube video so that the outside world (including us fans) will see that Koeman is the 'villain' in all this and that the club have done nothing wrong. Without Reed's video, would we have known how far down the line the contract talks were between Saints and Koeman? So, rather than the Reed video being an embarrassment to the club, it could be viewed as designed to show Koeman in a bad light.... No? Ok, perhaps not. I think I'll have to trade these tablets in for something more powerful For me personally, Koemans own numerous public admissions that he wasn't interested in moving to Everton & his insistence on seeing out his contract were enough to show him in a bad light after he made the U-Turn, I didn't need a video to highlight that. There's a meme doing the rounds at the moment with a screenshot of a quote I remember quiet well, which I found quiet endearing and why I feel somewhat betrayed by his U turn. "One thing that I notice about modern day football is the lack of loyalty nowadays. players and managers alike are switching clubs much more easily, mainly just for more money. I'd hate to ever become that kind of manager, only focused on short term gains" Nothing surprises me in football these days, but I did think we had found a manager who would keep his word, he seemed to valued his integrity, unfortunately not though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 For me personally, Koemans own numerous public admissions that he wasn't interested in moving to Everton & his insistence on seeing out his contract were enough to show him in a bad light after he made the U-Turn, I didn't need a video to highlight that. There's a meme doing the rounds at the moment with a screenshot of a quote I remember quiet well, which I found quiet endearing and why I feel somewhat betrayed by his U turn. "One thing that I notice about modern day football is the lack of loyalty nowadays. players and managers alike are switching clubs much more easily, mainly just for more money. I'd hate to ever become that kind of manager, only focused on short term gains" Nothing surprises me in football these days, but I did think we had found a manager who would keep his word, he seemed to valued his integrity, unfortunately not though. Brilliant isn't it?? And I think we all agree with your last sentence. Not angry/upset, just disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai27 Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 Brilliant isn't it?? And I think we all agree with your last sentence. Not angry/upset, just disappointed. Yup. He will have to carefully craft his first response upon signing for Everton and I'm sure it'll revolve around 'ambition', but there's no getting away from the fact that he made that comment very recently and it makes him look like an absolute moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardc Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 That's fine, but.....I think that the video was put out to try and pressure RK into signing for us rather then jumping, and not to save face or to portray RK as a "villain". If that was the case then Reed might have said something directly positive about Koeman rather than the long winded answer about the club and system with the almost begrudging praise tagged on at the end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughieslastminutegoal Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 doing the video suggests to me that Koeman was dithering and Reed was attempting to push him over the line. They were suckered by Potty Chino, so maybe they wanted to show that they were trying to complete a deal. Recall that RK said he always has been used to extending a rolling contract so there was no rush, all's cool....... blah di blah. You just cannot believe a word anyone in football utters. Money will almost always turn their heads. Why expect anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punk Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 Yup. He will have to carefully craft his first response upon signing for Everton and I'm sure it'll revolve around 'ambition', but there's no getting away from the fact that he made that comment very recently and it makes him look like an absolute moron. I agree it doesn't show him in a good light but maybe it was his intention to stay and see out his contract. I think what has happened is one of two things. We either told him to sign an extension or go now, OR we pushed him out. I think he probably is an honourable man but the circumstances presented just wouldn't allow him to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stud mark of doom Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 I agree it doesn't show him in a good light but maybe it was his intention to stay and see out his contract. I think what has happened is one of two things. We either told him to sign an extension or go now, OR we pushed him out. I think he probably is an honourable man but the circumstances presented just wouldn't allow him to be. How could we have forced him to sign or go now, other than on garden leave, as he had a contract with us for another year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 Is it offical anywhere yet? Like a boring soap opera now....dragging the story line on and on and on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 For me personally, Koemans own numerous public admissions that he wasn't interested in moving to Everton & his insistence on seeing out his contract were enough to show him in a bad light after he made the U-Turn, I didn't need a video to highlight that. There's a meme doing the rounds at the moment with a screenshot of a quote I remember quiet well, which I found quiet endearing and why I feel somewhat betrayed by his U turn. "One thing that I notice about modern day football is the lack of loyalty nowadays. players and managers alike are switching clubs much more easily, mainly just for more money. I'd hate to ever become that kind of manager, only focused on short term gains" Nothing surprises me in football these days, but I did think we had found a manager who would keep his word, he seemed to valued his integrity, unfortunately not though. Is that quote genuine? Load of these "quotes" on Twitter are just made up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 Indeed. Chronologically, what event came first? The news that Koeman had changed agents or the Les Reed 'contract talks going well' video...? it doesn't really matter does it. Koeman said he would discuss he contract at the end of the season, he was offered to double his money at Everton and took it walking out on Saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 it doesn't really matter does it. Koeman said he would discuss he contract at the end of the season, he was offered to double his money at Everton and took it walking out on Saints. Fair point. I'm just starting to get a little bored with the whole thing so have resorted to making up wacky theories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellow&blue Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 I quote Ronald Koeman himself in various interviews and he will probably say this in his first press conference at Everton: "That's football......" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint si Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 Is that quote genuine? Load of these "quotes" on Twitter are just made up The screenshot is from Koeman doing some analysis on Sky Sports for Leicester vs Newcastle on 14/3. The quote + picture doing the rounds is dated 15/3. The Sky sports page about the match has an embedded video which contains Koeman just talking about Leicester and how Arsenal + City are now too far adrift to win the league etc. I suppose it might be something he said during the live coverage that isn't on the video but for me the English is far too perfect for RK... it doesn't even sound like something he would say. http://www.skysports.com/football/leicester-vs-newcastle/341480 Why yes I had time on my hands, why do you ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 http://soccer.nbcsports.com/2016/06/09/how-ronald-koemans-southampton-tenure-unraveled-quickly/ (apologies if already posted - don't think there's anything particularly new in it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doggface Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 I think nobody on here knows the truth. Like most of the political goings on at Saints over the years, we probably never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nta786 Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 I think nobody on here knows the truth. Like most of the political goings on at Saints over the years, we probably never will. But that doesn't stop Koeman from becoming a villain, the defectors thread adds a new name, one we all least expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/koeman-announcement-set-delayed-until-11449659 Koeman announcement set to be delayed until next week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Armstrong Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/koeman-announcement-set-delayed-until-11449659 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/koeman-announcement-set-delayed-until-11449659 Just annoying now. Although I expect we're working on the new manager anyway. I'm inclined to believe there's nothing wrong, but the longer it drags on, the more I wonder. Giving him time to digest the questioning of his move. But then he's still got loads of money to balance the argument. If it did fall through, though, would really be messy now. Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/koeman-announcement-set-delayed-until-11449659 What a mickey mouse, small time, tinpot, amateur, run like cheap b&b, gobby, no mark football club they are.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suhari Posted 9 June, 2016 Share Posted 9 June, 2016 http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/koeman-announcement-set-delayed-until-11449659 The Echo has learned that practical issues over finalising contracts have arisen due to the 53-year-old being away on a second pre-planned holiday, and both the club and Koeman are prepared to wait until he returns on Monday. The hold up is a bit strange. What 'practical issues' could there be? Aside from needing his signature of course. Would be ****ing funny if it fell through. Imagine the meltdown on here if a manager was coming to us, and this hold up was going on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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