Saints 1 Sunderland 1 Match Reaction

[Dalek2003]

Agree he should be given a chance, won't boo him, but my instincts and the football I've seen us play so far are telling me his appointment is a mistake. Totally hope I'm wrong.

 

I hope you are wrong. If it is a mistake, then people need to be held to account. There was enough time to get it right.

[Give it to Ron]

Well then we will have to agree to disagree. I only say what I see and I saw a stretch of 10 to 15 minutes where we really struggled to win the ball back from Sunderland and noticed a similar spell in the Watford game. I don't think I've misunderstood the formation to be honest but even if, theoretically, it doesn't sacrifice stability it has meant that we look less secure at the back (again, in my opinion). At the very least it looks to me that our players misunderstand how to implement the formation effectively.

 

As for Forster not making any saves, I don't deny that, but I did say that we made a number of last ditch tackles (implying that he wouldn't need to be called upon).

 

You haven't got it wrong -all the gang I go with say same as do crowd around me.

Some are very good coaches and also played at good level.

Football is a game of opinions

Mason is a tool though :-) agreed?

 

 

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[Give it to Ron]

Unfortunately I didn't get to even listen to the match today, But I heard the crowd were chanting for Booze at halftime? If Saintsweb users could pick any two posistions to strengthen, what would they be? And would you say that the manager is feeling the pressure from fans if he changes his stance from 'We are happy with what we have', to the more honest 'We are looking to bring a couple in' ?

 

Why do you ask - Puel seemed to imply 1 or 2 signings but didn't rule out Jayrod leaving. He implied that the player wants to move for more game time.

If formation is to work Puel has to have the tools.

 

 

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[Batman]

Unfortunately I didn't get to even listen to the match today, But I heard the crowd were chanting for Booze at halftime? If Saintsweb users could pick any two posistions to strengthen, what would they be? And would you say that the manager is feeling the pressure from fans if he changes his stance from 'We are happy with what we have', to the more honest 'We are looking to bring a couple in' ?

 

Change the formation.

 

In what way is Redmond supposed to be any good as a striker. Get Redmond wide right or as a right sided attacker Or Austin tracking back their full back into our own final 3rd... Why?

 

Tadic is just miles better on the left.

 

 

This sideways passing is like LvG.

the defence is getting exposed and we see more and more last ditch defending by an excellent defence (VvD mainly)

 

Romeu is more like lee catermole when playing as a DM on his own

 

We have the players to succeed in a 4231 set up. Why on earth are we ripping that up.

 

Tell that to who ever you are in contact with at the club. Why are we walking away from a set up that suits the players (and those incoming no doubt) and suited the club incredibly for the last number of seasons

Edited 27 August, 2016 by Batman

[saint phil]

Unfortunately I didn't get to even listen to the match today, But I heard the crowd were chanting for Booze at halftime? If Saintsweb users could pick any two posistions to strengthen, what would they be? And would you say that the manager is feeling the pressure from fans if he changes his stance from 'We are happy with what we have', to the more honest 'We are looking to bring a couple in' ?

 

Well the answer to that depends slightly on whether the diamond is a firm commitment. If it is we need more than 2. Assuming boufal is done we will also need an upgrade on Romeu who I think excels when one of 2 defensive midfielders but is too lightweight to be the base of a diamond. We simply cannot go another season with maya as first choice back up to Jose. And like others have said we need a real finisher up front who can also hold up play. Much as I like jay and Austin neither of them will be good enough to play in this formation in those 2 positions even as back up. Neither can either track back well.

 

If we go back to 4 2 3 1 I think just boufal and centre back are essential.....as Shane, Charlie and Romeu will all fit more neatly into that side.

 

As an aside, whilst I think puel will be feeling the heat from fans and players I'm not 100% sure how disruptive the whole fonte saga has been. Body language between jose and Virgil was not good at old trafford and horrible today. Was Virgil directing his frustration at Puel or perhaps some of the players who he may feel are letting the team down ?

 

As ever would live any colour you have guan

 

 

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[OldNick]

Unfortunately I didn't get to even listen to the match today, But I heard the crowd were chanting for Booze at halftime? If Saintsweb users could pick any two posistions to strengthen, what would they be? And would you say that the manager is feeling the pressure from fans if he changes his stance from 'We are happy with what we have', to the more honest 'We are looking to bring a couple in' ?

chanting for Booze? I don't get it

[Give it to Ron]

chanting for Booze? I don't get it

 

Booing in other words

 

 

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[Lighthouse]

Equalised much sooner than we did last season and Fonte didn't get sent off.

 

Massive signs of improvement.

[OldNick]

Booing in other words

 

 

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oh ok thanks

[Cartman]

Unfortunately I didn't get to even listen to the match today, But I heard the crowd were chanting for Booze at halftime? If Saintsweb users could pick any two posistions to strengthen, what would they be? And would you say that the manager is feeling the pressure from fans if he changes his stance from 'We are happy with what we have', to the more honest 'We are looking to bring a couple in' ?

 

Definately the Wanyama and Mané shaped holes. Think we need two new Manés really but after getting one player to sort out our lack of technical ability in the final third, a defensive midfield shield to effectively protect the defense is a bigger priority over a second attacker, since I don't think any of our midfielders are really capable of playing such a role to a high standard. Hojbjerg is better as a box to box and our best midfielder and Romeu is a bit mediocre, decent on the ball but slow to react and is often in the wrong place to cut out opponents' passing lines.

 

So Boufal and either Ginter, Dendoncker or Camacho.

[Wiggles31]

And yeah booing at half time is moronic unless it's already game over. It was 0-0 FFS.

[stknowle]

chanting for Booze? I don't get it

 

"Beer, beer we want more beer, get another round in etc" the whole stadium was merrily chanting it as they looked forward to toasting our excellent first half showing with a wonderfully tepid pint of Carlsberg. Or something.

[Saint-Fred]

Confused, was busy today so didn't watch or listen but when I got in the first report I saw said thier young keeper got man of the match, then reading most on here we were ****e and the formation didn't work / we had nothing up front, created no chances etc. So how did thier keeper get motm I'd this was the case?

 

Mainly he got it as everyone else was shocking!

[Saint_Ash]

Rubbish. The only song like that I heard in the first half was "There's only one Alan Shearer" to wind the Sun'lan lot up. Upset them a bit, I think.

 

I must have completely mislead them repeatedly say Ronald Koeman then. Thanks.

[Plastic]

Just watched Spurs v Liverpool on MOTD. Depressing.

[Saint-Fred]

Nothing wrong with the formation, manager or board. Simple lack of intelligence, invention and movement upfront is all that cost us. Started well, Austin on his toes but by the time he was rightly dragged off he was just static. Things were a lot better when Jay Rod came on and Redmond dropped into the whole. Those two and Long playing quick passes with movement trying to break lines sparked us again. Tadic quiet but Austin and Fonte especially were really really poor. The rest of the team is more than OK. Dominated the game. The formation is more than fine. A decent right back wouldn't go a miss and Bertrand back will help but the formation relies on fluid movement upfront with clever play. Austin and Tadic didn't provide that today. Jay Rod and Redmond did.

 

Think this formation really suits Rodriguez so I'm hoping we keep him. Playing wide, cutting inside looking for one two's and having a strike from range is exactly what this formation needs and it's exactly what Rodriguez brings. Austin can do one though. I sit next to a guy who seems to love him but I have yet to see him offer anything to us. Obviously he has his talents and he showcased them for QPR of course but he's been here since January and I dont know what he's done to deserve to be starting games.

 

Puel obviously disagrees about Jay Rod or he would be starting and wouldn't have the west broom manager talking about his signing!

[petts]

Forster - 3rd game in a row where all he had to do was pick the ball olut the net really. No saves to make otherwise

 

Cedric - Looked better today, got forward well.

Fonte - Not at the races, dumb penalty to give away.

VVD - OK

Targett - Hurry back Bertrand

 

Romeu - Sloppy, not good enough to start.

Hojbjerg - Fairly good

Davis - Just there, could play Clasie or JWP and you'd notice no difference really

Tadic - Bright start then faded badly. Team improved when he went off and Redmond played in the 10 position.

 

Redmond - Not a CF, looked good as a number 10 since he either played the ball quickly or ran at their defence.

Offsi...Austin - Seems to have forgotten about the offside rule.

 

Subs:

 

JWP - Just there again.

Rodriguez - Did very well, maybe he showed enough for Puel to reconsider loaning him out.

Long - lots of running, but no quality.

 

International break now so time for them to work on the shortcomings in the tactics/team.

 

Hopefully we get a good DM to replace Romeu and change tactics in one of two ways

 

- Go back to 4-2-3-1 OR

- Be a bit more adventurous in the make up of the diamond. Play Romeu (or hopefully a new DM)/Hojbjerg/Tadic with Redmond as the number 10 sionce he is more direct in behind two of Austin/Long/Rodriguez.

Good summary, I thought we looked excellent in the first 20 mins, but doubt crept in quickly and of course the players are only just getting used to this new formation. When changes are needed in the match in response to the other team/situations, the players haven't got the knowledge of the new systems to do this yet whilst maintaining momentum. Worth persisting with, and if it does come off then I think we'll be looking at some great football from the team, likely even better than under potchettino. Need to be at least mid table after the next 5 to 7 games to convince me there is a future in it.

 

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[Secret Site Agent]

Well, we aint getting any better, but we aint getting any worse.

 

The Diamond doesn't seem to work and we are having players playing out of position too much.

 

Still no bite uptop except the one man who we believe is surplus to requirement at the moment and needs a loan to start scoring again.

[LaptopSaint]

Just flicking through this thread, I'm pretty sure we didn't lose 5-0 today.

 

Good grief. 3 games in.

 

I thought it was ok today for 3 games in under a new manager and system.

 

Agreed, it was 'OK'. V pleased that VVD was so hacked off though. No settling for second best. Got to do better.

[manji]

By far the worst thing about supporting The Saints is their clueless short sighted moronic supporters. Last season we were 16th at the end of September we also won our second game on Sept 26. We have a new manager and clearly the players are getting used to the new system. Most of our key players have signed extended contracts. We will have a least two new players , which will help the new system, by Wednesday. We played well at times today and showed great spirit to retrieve a point. You are a whinging bed wetting bunch of airheads.

[Baird of the land]

Unfortunately I didn't get to even listen to the match today, But I heard the crowd were chanting for Booze at halftime? If Saintsweb users could pick any two posistions to strengthen, what would they be? And would you say that the manager is feeling the pressure from fans if he changes his stance from 'We are happy with what we have', to the more honest 'We are looking to bring a couple in' ?

 

Throwing extra players isn't necessarily the solution imo. Turning in hugely disappointing displays against 2 weak sides at home with a pitiful naive display against a strong United side in between is gravely worrying when he's got a squad easily good enough to be in the top 10 at least. The issue is surely about the ability of the coach to adapt tactics to players and situation to get positive performances and results from them. So if puel can't Adapt a new coach rather than new players may be should be the cure.

 

As for playing personnel we need quality additions not panic buying extra numbers for the sake of it. Another pacy top quality attacking player would be ideal. If that's boufal great. not loaning out one of our existing good players in Jrod would be a pretty basic requirement too.

[Sour Mash]

By far the worst thing about supporting The Saints is their clueless short sighted moronic supporters.

 

This. Dribbling dweebs booing both at half-time and at the end.

 

If you look at the state of most of them how they get by in life I'll never know.

[Sour Mash]

chanting for Booze? I don't get it

 

You are genuinely simple.

[Roger]

Don't know really what to think.

 

All 3 games we have looked good in patches and cr*p in others.

 

Agree that the final quality isn't there at the moment, it sort of feels that the players just can't get their head around the final 3rd positions.

 

3 games and we have given away 2 penalties, Jose looked average, cedric has looked average.

 

Though Pierre, Virg and Davis looked good today, thought all of our forwards wanted it today and I'll be interested in the total shots.

 

Off to speak to the bar staff of Marrakech now to get their opinion on Boufal and if he will be called up to the afcon.

 

2 draws and 1 loss, I've seen worst starts.

 

Two draws at home against the easiest teams we are likely to play with Europa league coming up?

[saintwbu]

The booing upon subbing Tadic was embarrassing, as was singing his song once he went off. Would that have happened with Koeman still in charge? Absolutely ****ing not. Judge the decisions made not just the fact that it's a new guy making them, Tadic was anonymous as anyone but due to a good few games at the end of last season he's gone from fans thinking he's useless to being a fan favourite.

 

Thought Charlie Austin must be one frustrated man tonight, the sort of player who is going be offside 9/10,because he is constantly on the shoulder making the right runs but the pass needs to be timed to perfection. Today they just weren't. They either didn't come at all, or were all too late. People around me were moaning about him but to me it just looked like no one was on his wave length at all which looked like the fault of the others rather than him to be honest.

 

There are positives, yes we were very flat for most of the game after a bright start but we know this isn't our final team for the season. Mane today would've transformed that team into something completely different, hopefully Boufal is that player.

[Sour Mash]

LOL! Top 6/7 team in Scotland premiership maybe

Even you can do better than that you loon.

[Saint Billy]

By far the worst thing about supporting The Saints is their clueless short sighted moronic supporters. Last season we were 16th at the end of September we also won our second game on Sept 26. We have a new manager and clearly the players are getting used to the new system. Most of our key players have signed extended contracts. We will have a least two new players , which will help the new system, by Wednesday. We played well at times today and showed great spirit to retrieve a point. You are a whinging bed wetting bunch of airheads.

 

Do you know another song ffs.

[petts]

 

Thought Charlie Austin must be one frustrated man tonight, the sort of player who is going be offside 9/10,because he is constantly on the shoulder making the right runs but the pass needs to be timed to perfection. Today they just weren't. They either didn't come at all, or were all too late. People around me were moaning about him but to me it just looked like no one was on his wave length at all which looked like the fault of the others rather than him to be honest.

 

Charlie isn't the fastest player, and because of this he has to live right on the edge of the Offside rule to get as much headstart on the defenders as possible. I think it's just taking a bit more time for his teammates to adjust to this.

[kyle04]

I remember a similar negative tone here around Xmas last year during a poor run of form, until RK and the boys came up trumps with a strong finish to the season. Then we do what we do and lose a good manager and our two best strikers (although Pelle had a pretty indifferent season to be fair), and are back to square 1 once more with a weakened squad and a manager with no PL experience. However its only fair to judge this seasons "progress" after 10 - 15 games IMO. I do believe however that a few squad members are simply not good enough to be part of a strong competative PL side (Targett, Cedric, JWP and Austin for sure, Long works hard and can be a pest but lacks the clinical finish, Tadic has class but drifts out of games on a regular basis, Redmond is played in the wrong position..). I think JRod needs to start games up top, he was the only player that looked like scoring today. having said that he may have a good season then f*** off to liverpool next year cos he want CL football, not the signing on fee or the wages hike....

[Wade Garrett]

Seems like the first people posting on here weren't at the game. We were much the better side in the first 20 minutes but for some reason decided to sit in our half and let them play with the ball with no pressure, I didn't like that, looked like the away team at times. We do need a spark though. We're trying to play possession football and we need that spark up front like mane, hopefully boufal will provide it. Still early days but I'm not too to hit the panic button too soon. Especially after 3 games, ridiculousl knee jerking of some on here.

 

I was mush, and I was sober when I made my first post.

 

i'm not now. Reed has royally f*cked up here. Lumbered with the French Branfoot. Absolutely f*cking clueless.

[John Boy Saint]

Surprised no one has mentioned the Europa cup cut in the grass on the pitch.

[kermitsaint]

Seeing as Les Reed is often talking about 5 year plans etc I'm wondering if this season is being sacrificed so we can learn this new system and dominate in several years from now culminating in his ( ludicrous imho ) Champions League dream . While it may result in a frustrating and painful season for the fans and another limp attempt in Europe , it may have been expected by the board .

 

I honestly can't see Reed or Puel being under any pressure if this is the case .

 

Thought we looked great for the first 15 mins or so . After that we lost control . Our cramped midfield was very easy to bypass . Austin is wasted in this formation, bet he is regretting his move now .

 

Fonte looked like an accident waiting to happen .

 

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[baggytrousers]

Unfortunately I didn't get to even listen to the match today, But I heard the crowd were chanting for Booze at halftime? If Saintsweb users could pick any two posistions to strengthen, what would they be? And would you say that the manager is feeling the pressure from fans if he changes his stance from 'We are happy with what we have', to the more honest 'We are looking to bring a couple in' ?

 

Think the biggest worry so far has been defensive midfield. Romeu hasn't looked good so far and a mistake from him leaves our back four exposed. Don't think it's an issue with the system. Romeu is a decent player in a defensive two but has looked out of his depth so far when shielding the back four. Need a real strong destroyer in the Big Vic mould in that position. That would help a lot.

[jarhead5]

I only got to see 60 minutes today. Fonte made 4 mistakes. Big mistakes. We always say Yoshida is good for 1 boneheaded play, well......

Redmond should not pay in the middle. Maybe after a few months of training, but not now and not starting.

Romeu isn't ready for this formation. He needs to be able drop deep into the formation to allow both fullbacks to engage higher up the pitch.

We are not Barca, but we need to use a false 9, if we want to be affective in a 4-3-3. Widen the top 2 attackers and push Romeu back.

 

--------FF--------------

---Fonte---VvD--------

Cedric--------Bertrand

-------Romeu----------

--Hoj---------Davis----

--------Tadic-----------

Redmond--------J-Rod

[jarhead5]

I only got to see 60 minutes today. Fonte made 4 mistakes. Big mistakes. We always say Yoshida is good for 1 boneheaded play, well......

Redmond should not pay in the middle. Maybe after a few months of training, but not now and not starting.

Romeu isn't ready for this formation. He needs to be able drop deep into the formation to allow both fullbacks to engage higher up the pitch.

We are not Barca, but we need to use a false 9, if we want to be affective in a 4-3-3. Widen the top 2 attackers and push Romeu back.

 

--------FF--------------

---Fonte---VvD--------

Cedric--------Bertrand

-------Romeu----------

--Hoj---------Davis----

--------Tadic-----------

Long--------------J-Rod

[PeteCampbell]

Disappointing game.

 

Hojbjerg and Redmond are big positives though.

[Singapore Saint]

Jose was ****, nothing wrong with the formation at all, we created chances and were let down by offside calls and poor finishing.

You're all making ridiculous claims and I don't know how some of you function when you're in such a state of permanent distress over our football club.

 

This.

[Vancouver Saint]

Diamond this, diamond that, there is not a single difference between a diamond and a 4-3-3. Not one. In fact we are playing the exact same way we did under Poch, the players' average position and heat maps prove this.

The problem is lack of quality, we create chances, far more than Watford and Sunderland and not much less than Man Utd but can't hit a barn door and then get undone by individual mistakes at the back. We miss Mané basically, he was our entire attack.

 

Agreed. Diamond is a convenient excuse. Obviously would hope for more than two points from three games but it's early days. Give Puel 10 games then we'll know what we've got.

[Kingsbridge Saint]

Vvd's comments highly relevant. Puel needs to go if either results dont improve or they do, but we end up playing possession based football. Why change the system when it wasnt broke? What happened to the template?

[whelk]

Vvd's comments highly relevant. Puel needs to go if either results dont improve or they do, but we end up playing possession based football. Why change the system when it wasnt broke? What happened to the template?

 

Results improve and he still needs to go unless team plays they way you want them to? Lol

[Shance]

Unfortunately I didn't get to even listen to the match today, But I heard the crowd were chanting for Booze at halftime? If Saintsweb users could pick any two posistions to strengthen, what would they be? And would you say that the manager is feeling the pressure from fans if he changes his stance from 'We are happy with what we have', to the more honest 'We are looking to bring a couple in' ?

 

There's absolutely no doubts that we need a proper DM at the base of the diamond. If it's a 4231 then our midfield is ok as you'd have a pair to cover for each other if needed but Romeu on his own just isn't working. I'd say a striker as well but tbh I personally think Austin will come good. His movement and runs yesterday were very good.

 

This is based on us getting Boufal though. I'd go something like this;

 

4231;

 

Austin

Tadic Boufal Redmond

Hojbjerg New DM

Betrand VVD Fonte Cedric

Forster

 

Obviously the front three are fluid and can interchange when needed.

 

41212;

 

Austin Long

Boufal

Hojbjerg -------- Davis

New DM

Bertrand VVD Fonte Cedric

Forster

Edited 28 August, 2016 by Shance

[Batman]

I'm guessing many have woken up to the fact that rom is not an adequate replacement for Vic?

 

He is a decent player, Spanish lee catermole

 

Top 8 central midfield powerhouse he is not

 

 

And Redmond is not a striker ffs

Edited 28 August, 2016 by Batman

[OldNick]

I wasn't at the game and so can only give my opinion from the very little highlights on Motd.

Austin showed why he is an instinctive finisher, His shot on goal was a vey good attempt.

Defoe is still a superb forward who makes something from nothing, although Jose made a bit mistake.

 

I heard that Targett was very close to scoring with a fee kick but it was not shown

[kermitsaint]

I wasn't at the game and so can only give my opinion from the very little highlights on Motd.

Austin showed why he is an instinctive finisher, His shot on goal was a vey good attempt.

Defoe is still a superb forward who makes something from nothing, although Jose made a bit mistake.

 

I heard that Targett was very close to scoring with a fee kick but it was not shown

It was close yes but a miss is a miss . Just ask our dead ball specialist Prowse

 

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[Roger]

Seeing as Les Reed is often talking about 5 year plans etc I'm wondering if this season is being sacrificed so we can learn this new system and dominate in several years from now culminating in his ( ludicrous imho ) Champions League dream . While it may result in a frustrating and painful season for the fans and another limp attempt in Europe , it may have been expected by the board .

 

I honestly can't see Reed or Puel being under any pressure if this is the case .

 

Thought we looked great for the first 15 mins or so . After that we lost control . Our cramped midfield was very easy to bypass . Austin is wasted in this formation, bet he is regretting his move now .

 

Fonte looked like an accident waiting to happen .

 

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Come back from la la land mate.

[kermitsaint]

Come back from la la land mate.

Thank you for your reasoned debate ?

 

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[scotty]

Thank you for your reasoned debate

 

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Kermit, if you're expecting that from roger, you are knocking on the wrong door.

[Charlie Wayman]

Had you been there today an watched the players closely you may not be so happy clappy.

Yes it's early days, yes the club deserve credit for past but there are serious flaws with this formation with the players playing it today.

To try and shoe horn into a formation they just can't play and look lost against a shocking Sunderland and worryingly outplayed for 20 minutes before half time rings alarm bells.

Ignore VVD if you like but if you watched him recently you would see this.

 

 

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Totally agree. I was one o the few hundred who watched our U23's beat Man U on Monday and as far as I could tell, Hunter was not playing a diamond. This leaves me wondering just what The Southampton Way is any more?

 

On a better note Ty Johnson the young winger we picked up from Watford is the real deal so don't be surprised if he gets a first team call before too long... a new Walcott? Could be.

[Saint Billy]

I was mush, and I was sober when I made my first post.

 

i'm not now. Reed has royally f*cked up here. Lumbered with the French Branfoot. Absolutely f*cking clueless.

 

French Branfoot bit made me larf

[Charlie Wayman]

Rubbish. The only song like that I heard in the first half was "There's only one Alan Shearer" to wind the Sun'lan lot up. Upset them a bit, I think.

 

Ok I'll bite on this trivia, we heard it clearly in the Itchen not far from where Puel sits. Not only that but towards the end Puel was really angry and told Black and Watson to do one when they were trying to get JWP on. They looked bewildered at the time and clearly the pressure was getting to Puel. FACTS!