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5 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

If certain groups of people in this country are so concerned about racism can I ask why they are focused on the arrest of 5 people in this country for tweeting footballers rather than calling out the deaths and enslavement of people across the world (eg Uighur, prostitution of eastern European girls, etc)? Also why are England’s footballers taking the knee against racism when they are going to play in Qatar’s football stadiums effectively built by quasi immigrant slavery? If said parties were so outspoken in relation to these more fundamental matters of discrimination  I would have much more respect.

TBF you can oppose all of these things at the same time. 

On another note, I see that saka is going to become the youngest recipient of the freedom of Ealing award for his "courage." I mean ffs isn't this getting a bit much now? The team lost, can't we celebrate properly when they actually win something? 

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2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

TBF you can oppose all of these things at the same time. 

On another note, I see that saka is going to become the youngest recipient of the freedom of Ealing award for his "courage." I mean ffs isn't this getting a bit much now? The team lost, can't we celebrate properly when they actually win something? 

I agree you can but the focus should be on these much bigger issues where people are having their livelihoods destroyed surely? When was the last time these major issues were mentioned and profiled by players?
 

 

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27 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I agree you can but the focus should be on these much bigger issues where people are having their livelihoods destroyed surely? When was the last time these major issues were mentioned and profiled by players?
 

 

Don't get me wrong I think the racism moral panic from the media and particularly on social media has been laughably overblown and mostly exacerbated by the pandemic. I'm just saying that I can see why the players would be annoyed about direct racist abuse from social media users. That doesn't excuse it being continued for what seems like weeks now after the final or as you state to basically not mention some of the other burning injustices when this feels rather minor by comparison but I do see their point of view. 

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15 hours ago, Red said:

Wasn't sure whether to respond on this topic or not as I fully appreciate there are a lot of Wums on here just seeking reaction, but her goes. 

Like most things in life, I believe it is difficult to truly appreciate something unless you have experienced it yourself (walk a mile in my shoes - Emo Philips/Joe South). I am British Asian and consider myself to have done reasonably well, have a profession and great friends and work colleagues - certainly not under privileged.

I also believe most of the UK population are not racist and are well meaning - there are always exceptions as with most things in life. Thing is that we all have biases consciously or otherwise. I have them and will judge people without really knowing them – if he’s that over weight and unhealthy do I want him as my doctor, or if she’s got a load of tattoos, piercings and dresses in leather do I want her minding my kids? etc. etc.

Overt racism is easier to spot and maybe address. It’s the under lying biases that are more of a problem I believe – where people might not even realise they are acting differently because of a difference.

I have been beaten severely three times in the UK because of my colour – randomly attacked by gangs and whilst I gave as good as I could there were just too many. Twice it was in daylight and in the city. Not only did no one intervene but no one called the police/ambulance. Afterwards my friends (not at the event) all sympathised but said “ah well it’s the times we live in, and at still you’re ok”. I wasn’t ok, I was shaken and my confidence was shattered.

By contrast I have also been set upon twice at away grounds for being a Saints supporter, which was not racist, and surprisingly not as vicious as the racist attacks.

I cannot recall the number of times I have been called a Paki (even though I am not), people spitting at or near my direction, being the last one to be served, taxies refusing my fare, etc. etc. This is a daily ongoing issue for most non-white people. I have even had three job applications rejected because “my name would not look right” (I sent CV’s to three companies both with my true name and a made up English name – guess what I was offered an immediate interview for the English name and rejected for other – same job, same company).

Even my boss (who I would consider a really fair guy) recently asked me in a team meeting where I was from, and when I said Southampton, his response was “no where are you really from? That tan’s not from here”

It’s a constant drip drip effect and if at some point people say enough is enough (as per Black Lives Matter organisation – who I don’t not support BTW) is it any wonder? What would you do if 10 times a day, every day someone said your wife was a slag?

I am just trying to offer some perspective from the man walking in the shoes that’s all – no agenda here. Like I said I consider myself privileged as am doing ok and don’t see too much of this. I can’t image what an out of work, homeless black youth is going through.

I am sorry to hear about your experiences Red but you seem to take all of this crap with a fair amount of good grace and pragmatism. I am not sure if I could do the same so fair play! 
Sadly you don’t have to dig very deep to find these stories of abuse and intolerance on a regular basis. The abuse after the final and the fuss about players taking the knee have helped raise awareness of this problem within our society, yet it is stories like these that really strike at the heart of the matter. You can dismiss what happened at the Euros as the actions of a few mindless idiots, but Red’s experiences show that it is so much more than that and more deeply ingrained in every day life.

It has been over 20 years since the Macpherson report yet we are still talking about institutionalised racism within the police. Racism reared it ugly head in football in the 70’s yet half a century on we are still talking about what needs to be done to combat it. 

The amount of hate crime reported has climbed sharply since Brexit, with many British born citizens being told to “go back to your own country”.

You come on the social media platforms to call out racism and support those taking a stance against it and immediately become a target for the WUMs who seem to have nothing better to do with their time than help muddy the waters and indirectly support those who are spreading ignorance, intolerance and hate.

What these forums need is more people like you who can come on and talk about your experiences first hand. It quickly shuts up those who try and pretend that we don’t have a significant problem with racism and intolerance here. Anything that raises awareness  helps fight the widespread ignorance of how this cancer in our society affects everyday people.

It will never be eradicated completely but the more we do as a society, being it footballers showing solidarity before matches to people calling out ignorance and intolerance or just sharing their experiences on social media platforms, the more this behaviour will become unacceptable and we will spend more time talking about sport, not what happened to people because of their skin tone.

Of all of the threads here about racial and religious intolerance including this part of the Euro thread, I would say that your one post is the only one that puts everything perfectly into perspective and sums up where we are in the UK in 2021. You mentioned being worried about the WUMs and it isn’t pleasant being on the receiving end of their attacks. There are also those who seem to have completely missed the point of what you were saying as evidenced by the responses, but the vast majority of those who use this forum will be pleased that you posted, I’m sure.
 

 

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36 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

What these need is more people like you who can come on and talk about your experiences first hand. It quickly shuts up those who try and pretend that we don’t have a significant problem with racism and intolerance here.

Sadly it doesn't shut up people like you who to try to pretend that they understand the issue, yet still can't grasp what other people are actually posting. Have a day off mate. 

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Hi All,

Thanks for all your comments and well wishes. I can't reply individually as I only have 3 posts per day, so I will try and cover as much as possible here.

Like I said I thought long and hard before posting as I didn't want to create further debate or issues, just to highlight things are still ongoing today and as I said I consider myself relatively fortunate compared to others fate, and it doesn't impact me most of the time.

As to why I didn't complain about my boss - I don't think he meant to be racist, but rather he did not think about what he was saying. He is a decent guy and when I told him one to one he seemed genuinely surprised he had caused offence and we get on fine now, so maybe he will be more respectful in future? Anyway what was the point of complaining, as I would have simply been earmarked as a trouble maker and not helped my career prospects - maybe it's the wrong approach and only encourages more of the same? But honestly I don't need the aggro as I have seen others stand up and suffer as a result. BTW, none of the others on the call called it out either and so I guess they thought it was acceptable?

The job situation was indeed bizarre but true, and I fully expected to be called out for applying twice but wasn't. Maybe they get so many CV's that they don't pay close attention. An HR friend of mine said when he gets CV's his first round of vetting takes about 30 secs max - scans for age, relevant experience and work permit requirement.

Feedback was from an agency in one case and directly from the interviewer in another - of course he didn't say we're not hiring you because of your colour - it was more subtle, like we are a very traditional old fashioned company and our clients are the same and they don't appreciate anything new or different etc. etc. Another time when I was working in a factory for the summer during Uni I was asked if I could read and write on the first day. It is very hard to prove these incidents and also what would it ultimately achieve - people who perpetrate these things would only get more resentful and more extreme. I try to point out the issue calmly and show that it's hurtful - sometimes it works and others not. Although I would probably lose it if someone abused my elderly mother!

Anyway thanks again, and my main point was try and see things from the other person's viewpoint and understand how they might be feeling before judging.

Oh and UTS - think it's going to be a long season.

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Back to the Euros. There was an interesting feature in The Guardian the other day about using penalties to decide the final. Given that it is a team game it is a bit harsh that it falls to an individual to fail to decide the competition but what other way is there to break the deadlock?

Readers were asked for their suggestions. One said if it is still level pegging after extra time share the cup with both sides designated winners. Can’t see that happening as we like a definite outcome. Another suggested that it should be awarded to the best team. As we know, the best team doesn’t always win which makes the sport more appealing but it might encourage both sides to go for it. There would be some kind of scoring system involving possession, shots on goal, fouls etc. Of all of the suggestions this one looked the most logical to me as it rewards the team who put in the most effort to win the game within the laws of the game. I can’t see it changing though. The penalty competition provides plenty of drama at the end and at least it finishes on a high (for some). In my preferred option you would have to wait while the statos checked their figures before announcing the winner over the tannoy. Not so exciting! I don’t know what the answer is, but people shouldn’t have to live with the shame of missing one for the rest of their lives. I know they could make a mistake during the game which affects the outcome but at least they have 90 or 120 minutes in which to have a positive impact on the game. Just one misplaced kick and the likes of Southgate, Waddle, Pearce and now Rashford, Sancho and Saka have that on their CV’s for the rest of their days.

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1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

Back to the Euros. There was an interesting feature in The Guardian the other day about using penalties to decide the final. Given that it is a team game it is a bit harsh that it falls to an individual to fail to decide the competition but what other way is there to break the deadlock?

Readers were asked for their suggestions. One said if it is still level pegging after extra time share the cup with both sides designated winners. Can’t see that happening as we like a definite outcome. Another suggested that it should be awarded to the best team. As we know, the best team doesn’t always win which makes the sport more appealing but it might encourage both sides to go for it. There would be some kind of scoring system involving possession, shots on goal, fouls etc. Of all of the suggestions this one looked the most logical to me as it rewards the team who put in the most effort to win the game within the laws of the game. I can’t see it changing though. The penalty competition provides plenty of drama at the end and at least it finishes on a high (for some). In my preferred option you would have to wait while the statos checked their figures before announcing the winner over the tannoy. Not so exciting! I don’t know what the answer is, but people shouldn’t have to live with the shame of missing one for the rest of their lives. I know they could make a mistake during the game which affects the outcome but at least they have 90 or 120 minutes in which to have a positive impact on the game. Just one misplaced kick and the likes of Southgate, Waddle, Pearce and now Rashford, Sancho and Saka have that on their CV’s for the rest of their days.

I don't like penalty shootouts and lose interest as soon as they happen. I suppose they're ok for the earlier knockout rounds but for me, not for the final. If it's 0-0 after extra time then don't bother with trying to decide a winner. To say that italy 'won' the title is too ridiculous.

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2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Back to the Euros. There was an interesting feature in The Guardian the other day about using penalties to decide the final. Given that it is a team game it is a bit harsh that it falls to an individual to fail to decide the competition but what other way is there to break the deadlock?

Readers were asked for their suggestions. One said if it is still level pegging after extra time share the cup with both sides designated winners. Can’t see that happening as we like a definite outcome. Another suggested that it should be awarded to the best team. As we know, the best team doesn’t always win which makes the sport more appealing but it might encourage both sides to go for it. There would be some kind of scoring system involving possession, shots on goal, fouls etc. Of all of the suggestions this one looked the most logical to me as it rewards the team who put in the most effort to win the game within the laws of the game. I can’t see it changing though. The penalty competition provides plenty of drama at the end and at least it finishes on a high (for some). In my preferred option you would have to wait while the statos checked their figures before announcing the winner over the tannoy. Not so exciting! I don’t know what the answer is, but people shouldn’t have to live with the shame of missing one for the rest of their lives. I know they could make a mistake during the game which affects the outcome but at least they have 90 or 120 minutes in which to have a positive impact on the game. Just one misplaced kick and the likes of Southgate, Waddle, Pearce and now Rashford, Sancho and Saka have that on their CV’s for the rest of their days.

What a load of old pony. 
 

Penalties are a clear & decisive way to end it. Not somebodies opinion or ridiculous stats to prove who “tried hardest”. So what if somebody misses the penalty, if they miss one to draw level in the 4th minute of injury time, it’ll count. What’s the difference? Somebody gets upset, didums. You’ll be banning putting on the 18th next in case some poor little darling misses a crucial putt. 

Edited by Lord Duckhunter
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2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Back to the Euros. There was an interesting feature in The Guardian the other day about using penalties to decide the final. Given that it is a team game it is a bit harsh that it falls to an individual to fail to decide the competition but what other way is there to break the deadlock?

Readers were asked for their suggestions. One said if it is still level pegging after extra time share the cup with both sides designated winners. Can’t see that happening as we like a definite outcome. Another suggested that it should be awarded to the best team. As we know, the best team doesn’t always win which makes the sport more appealing but it might encourage both sides to go for it. There would be some kind of scoring system involving possession, shots on goal, fouls etc. Of all of the suggestions this one looked the most logical to me as it rewards the team who put in the most effort to win the game within the laws of the game. I can’t see it changing though. The penalty competition provides plenty of drama at the end and at least it finishes on a high (for some). In my preferred option you would have to wait while the statos checked their figures before announcing the winner over the tannoy. Not so exciting! I don’t know what the answer is, but people shouldn’t have to live with the shame of missing one for the rest of their lives. I know they could make a mistake during the game which affects the outcome but at least they have 90 or 120 minutes in which to have a positive impact on the game. Just one misplaced kick and the likes of Southgate, Waddle, Pearce and now Rashford, Sancho and Saka have that on their CV’s for the rest of their days.

All I would say is the higher you are up the greasy pole the greater the risk, that has been my personal experience in life, that's why you get the big bucks. I'm not a fan of the every ones a winner philosophy, it doesn't represent life, life isn't fair, everyone needs to learn to deal with that. That's my view.

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I reckon instead of penalties they should give it to the nicest team. Which team committed less fouls, did the most for charity, & didn’t swear or spit during game. Extra points could be added for the tidiest dressing room, most sustainable form of transport to the ground & diversity within the group. 

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3 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I reckon instead of penalties they should give it to the nicest team. Which team committed less fouls, did the most for charity, & didn’t swear or spit during game. Extra points could be added for the tidiest dressing room, most sustainable form of transport to the ground & diversity within the group. 

And the winners of the World Cup (again!) are Forest Green Rovers!

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5 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I reckon instead of penalties they should give it to the nicest team. Which team committed less fouls, did the most for charity, & didn’t swear or spit during game. Extra points could be added for the tidiest dressing room, most sustainable form of transport to the ground & diversity within the group. 

Some good points you make there, you should consider a career writing for the Guardian.

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I don't see why they couldn't have a replay instead of the penalties. I still remember saints winning at White Hart Lane against Nottngham Forest in third attempt at getting into next round.

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52 minutes ago, SFC Forever said:

I don't see why they couldn't have a replay instead of the penalties. I still remember saints winning at White Hart Lane against Nottngham Forest in third attempt at getting into next round.

Might be a bit of an ask to re stage a final, what about sudden death (golden goal)? Kill off the defensive boresville and the tactical substitutions, bit of the old gung ho!

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37 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Might be a bet of an ask to re stage a final, what about sudden death (golden goal)? Kill off the defensive boresville and the tactical substitutions, bit of the old gung ho!

Just keep playing 30 minutes of extra time until at the end of each section one team has scored more than the other. If it takes two or three days then so be it.

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The solution is clear, if it's all square after extra time then it should go down to a game of Battleships.

It could be made visual by using fans in the ground as the pieces.  They could put on white and red shirts to make it more authentic. 

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4 hours ago, SFC Forever said:

I don't see why they couldn't have a replay instead of the penalties. I still remember saints winning at White Hart Lane against Nottngham Forest in third attempt at getting into next round.

3 goes with Grimsby in FA Cup in the 70s too (finally beat them at Filbert Street) - think an Arsenal and scousers semi-final went to 4 games back around then as well. Lightweights today.

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8 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Back to the Euros. There was an interesting feature in The Guardian the other day about using penalties to decide the final. Given that it is a team game it is a bit harsh that it falls to an individual to fail to decide the competition but what other way is there to break the deadlock?

Readers were asked for their suggestions. One said if it is still level pegging after extra time share the cup with both sides designated winners. Can’t see that happening as we like a definite outcome. Another suggested that it should be awarded to the best team. As we know, the best team doesn’t always win which makes the sport more appealing but it might encourage both sides to go for it. There would be some kind of scoring system involving possession, shots on goal, fouls etc. Of all of the suggestions this one looked the most logical to me as it rewards the team who put in the most effort to win the game within the laws of the game. I can’t see it changing though. The penalty competition provides plenty of drama at the end and at least it finishes on a high (for some). In my preferred option you would have to wait while the statos checked their figures before announcing the winner over the tannoy. Not so exciting! I don’t know what the answer is, but people shouldn’t have to live with the shame of missing one for the rest of their lives. I know they could make a mistake during the game which affects the outcome but at least they have 90 or 120 minutes in which to have a positive impact on the game. Just one misplaced kick and the likes of Southgate, Waddle, Pearce and now Rashford, Sancho and Saka have that on their CV’s for the rest of their days.

You lost me at an interesting feature in the guardian. 

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12 hours ago, alehouseboys said:

3 goes with Grimsby in FA Cup in the 70s too (finally beat them at Filbert Street) - think an Arsenal and scousers semi-final went to 4 games back around then as well. Lightweights today.

I am old enough to remember the 5 replays between Oxford City and Alvechurch in 1971. Although two non-league teams the saga started to make quite big back page news !

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8 hours ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

Good to see that Portsmouth have sacked their 3 under-18's players who racially abused Rashford, Sancho and Saka. No place for them in sport in my humble opinion.

What does it say about the culture of a club that this could happen in the first place?  You could imagine one idiot mouthing off, but three of them suggests there's more than a 'bad apple' problem.

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On 29/07/2021 at 16:42, Verbal said:

What does it say about the culture of a club that this could happen in the first place?  You could imagine one idiot mouthing off, but three of them suggests there's more than a 'bad apple' problem.

It doesn’t suggest anything about the culture of the club. It says they’ve dealt very quickly and correctly with an issue with 3 out of probably 150 members of staff. Fair play to them for dealing with it. 

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