HarvSFC Posted May 29 Posted May 29 1 hour ago, Chez said: Agree. Farmed out players like him and BBD may not feel Saints is the club for them anymore. Armstrong also had the Hugo Scheckter video situation to dent his ego. But, he is on a long contract. Out of our forwards, I'd say he's the best suited to a pressing system. He's a crap version of Shane Long, which means he's a willing runner. Stewart and Onuachu are slow target men with the latter likely to be off. Brereton-Diaz is just there and Archer doesn't do enough pressing off the ball and the press has to start from the top for it to be effective. Another summer where we really need a new number 9.
Charlie Wayman Posted May 29 Posted May 29 49 minutes ago, notnowcato said: I think if we receive a sensible offer he goes. A sensible offer being what exactly? £1m? We should move on from the past and build for the future. There is no need to rush back to the PL with a group of players we know cannot perform at that level so any panic move to bring him back here for supposedly short term benefit will be unhelpful* in the longer term. I don't mind if we spend a couple of years in Division 2 rebuilding as long as we end up with a team or group of players that can survive in the top division when we eventually get back there. * i.e. Bloody Cretinous 1
suewhistle Posted May 29 Posted May 29 1 hour ago, HarvSFC said: Out of our forwards, I'd say he's the best suited to a pressing system. I'd particularly agree with this. The question is what alternatives are being considered? Even if not consciously, he's an honest player, he may not bust a gut if he knows he's going to be discarded if we were to get promotion.
Lighthouse Posted May 29 Posted May 29 11 hours ago, The Kraken said: 16 games 3 goals in his last stint in the championship. There’s no reason he can’t replicate that form either. Adam Armstrong has scored 20+ in a season twice in his career. “Guaranteed 20” is doing some heavy lifting if you think that’s what we need to replace. He’s clearly not had a good loan spell at the Baggies but he hasn’t suddenly forgotten how to be a good player overnight. Literally any player could replicate poor form from the past, it’s up to the management team to make sure we get the best out of Armstrong, as we did last season and two years at Blackburn before that. I never said he was guaranteed 20 goals, I asked which guaranteed 20 goal player you’d replace him with, which is the whole point. If you’re not replacing him with someone obviously better, then why replace him at all? Still has briefly alluded to the need to be flexible in how we play. If he can’t adjust the way we play to accommodate a player who scored 65 goals in his last three full Championship seasons, then we’ve got bigger problems than Armstrong. 2
Fabrice29 Posted May 29 Posted May 29 55 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said: don't mind if we spend a couple of years in Division 2 rebuilding as long as we end up with a team or group of players that can survive in the top division when we eventually get back there. Daily reminder that spending a couple of years in the Championship will involve losing quite a lot of matches and an increasing amount of tension/anger/declarations of the team being built not being good enough and people will 100% mind. 1
Saint86 Posted May 29 Posted May 29 Keeping AA is the obvious choice and people are mad to consider selling him for anything other than silly money. He was arguably the best player in the championship in our promotion season, and was top on combined goals/assists from memory? 4
Saint Fan CaM Posted May 29 Posted May 29 12 minutes ago, Saint86 said: Keeping AA is the obvious choice and people are mad to consider selling him for anything other than silly money. He was arguably the best player in the championship in our promotion season, and was top on combined goals/assists from memory? Pros: His past performance in the Championship was very good. He’s not had the humiliation of being in the shit team that forgot how to win. He’s reasonably quick and can close down well, suiting a high press. He could link well with Stewart in a two up-top formation. Cons: His past performance doesn’t prove he’s still got it. His performance on loan this last season has been unremarkable if not poor. He’s not wholly suited to Still’s requirements of a striker as he’s pretty rubbish playing centrally and too small to beat defenders to crosses into the box. We need new blood, he’s been here the longest and there’s a reason he was sent on loan.
sockeye Posted May 29 Posted May 29 Keep and get rid next summer. I don't want to ever see him in a Premier League shirt ever again, but would be silly to discount him if only for his 2023-24 performance. 4
trousers Posted May 29 Posted May 29 (edited) 16 minutes ago, sockeye said: Keep and get rid next summer. I don't want to ever see him in a Premier League shirt ever again, but would be silly to discount him if only for his 2023-24 performance. I guess the question mark over Armstrong is whether or not he'll perform at 2023/24 levels when he knows it's likely he'll be ditched at the end of the season, regardless of how well he does. Could conceivably affect his motivation levels compared to last time in the Championship? Edited May 29 by trousers
sockeye Posted May 29 Posted May 29 8 minutes ago, trousers said: I guess the question mark over Armstrong is whether or not he'll perform at 2023/24 levels when he knows it's likely he'll be ditched at the end of the season, regardless of how well he does. Could conceivably affect his motivation levels compared to last time in the Championship? We have a lot of forwards, so I would be willing to sell to a club outside of the Championship. If his confidence is shot and he performs poorly, there is the option of trying to offload him during the winter window.
skintsaint Posted May 29 Posted May 29 7 minutes ago, sockeye said: so I would be willing to sell to a club outside of the Championship. Too good for league one, can't see him going abroad. Can't do it in the EPL. Guess Celtic or Rangers could loan him?....
Turkish Posted May 29 Posted May 29 20 minutes ago, trousers said: I guess the question mark over Armstrong is whether or not he'll perform at 2023/24 levels when he knows it's likely he'll be ditched at the end of the season, regardless of how well he does. Could conceivably affect his motivation levels compared to last time in the Championship? If he wants another club then that shouldn't be a factor at all. He'll be 29 then so realistically going to be his last decent deal. He aint getting a move to the premier league whatever happens, so he'll either see out his premier league contract as a squad player or on loan or he'll get a move to a top half championship side. It's in everyone's interests he cooks next season and then moves on. 1
coalman Posted May 29 Posted May 29 Armstrong's goal scoring record in the Championship means he should have a place in the squad but, in the same way I wouldn't build our defence around Bednarek and Stephens, I would want him in addition to better attacking players. Whether that's a striker or wingers. 1
ErwinK1961 Posted May 29 Posted May 29 10 hours ago, notnowcato said: I think if we receive a sensible offer he goes. Think that’s true of every single player we’ve got. 1
S-Clarke Posted May 29 Posted May 29 I know people are suggesting he could be a super sub, but in much the way as Ings was - he's not that sort. He needs games and runs of goals to get into form, if he's in and out of the team and off the bench it never seems to work for him. So if he sticks around, he'll be a starter if we're going to maximise the best we can for him. I do have a feeling that he's for sale at the right price though. 2
StrangelyBrown Posted May 29 Posted May 29 Much as I hope we will replace him if we get back to the premier league, he's shown he can do a very good job in the championship. If we bounce straight back we've got 3 windows to assemble a team capable of staying up - Armstrong would be a player we could afford to replace in the 3rd window.
trousers Posted May 29 Posted May 29 7 hours ago, Turkish said: If he wants another club then that shouldn't be a factor at all. He'll be 29 then so realistically going to be his last decent deal. He aint getting a move to the premier league whatever happens, so he'll either see out his premier league contract as a squad player or on loan or he'll get a move to a top half championship side. It's in everyone's interests he cooks next season and then moves on. Fair point 👍
trousers Posted May 29 Posted May 29 48 minutes ago, StrangelyBrown said: Much as I hope we will replace him if we get back to the premier league, he's shown he can do a very good job in the championship. If we bounce straight back we've got 3 windows to assemble a team capable of staying up - Armstrong would be a player we could afford to replace in the 3rd window. Possibly me being thick, but where do you get 3 windows from? Surely it's only one window between gaining promotion and starting life again in the PL?
StrangelyBrown Posted May 29 Posted May 29 10 minutes ago, trousers said: Possibly me being thick, but where do you get 3 windows from? Surely it's only one window between gaining promotion and starting life again in the PL? This summer, winter and next summer...
Mr X Posted June 6 Posted June 6 On 29/05/2025 at 14:26, trousers said: I guess the question mark over Armstrong is whether or not he'll perform at 2023/24 levels when he knows it's likely he'll be ditched at the end of the season, regardless of how well he does. Could conceivably affect his motivation levels compared to last time in the Championship? Do you think AA realises himself that the premier league is beyond him? Or do you think he feels he is that good and not been given opportunities? Surely he accepts deep down that he isn't an effective player at that level
Gloucester Saint Posted June 6 Posted June 6 Bazunu and Smallbone are unlikely as RoI players, but AA and Aribo are the two I could see Martin coming in for if the new investment means they could afford them. AA would score plenty in the SPL and enjoys working with that manager. Aribo would win over their fanbase quickly pre-season. 3
Chez Posted June 6 Posted June 6 31 minutes ago, Mr X said: Do you think AA realises himself that the premier league is beyond him? Or do you think he feels he is that good and not been given opportunities? Surely he accepts deep down that he isn't an effective player at that level Anyone got a stat as to how many decent goalscoring chances he got this season? He may feel that we created jack, so that was to blame rather than his inability to create a chance for himself etc. 1
Toussaint Posted June 6 Posted June 6 1 hour ago, Chez said: Anyone got a stat as to how many decent goalscoring chances he got this season? He may feel that we created jack, so that was to blame rather than his inability to create a chance for himself etc. The issue with him, being a small striker, is he's not quick enough and needs two touches. 1
Whitey Grandad Posted June 6 Posted June 6 2 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said: Bazunu and Smallbone are unlikely as RoI players, but AA and Aribo are the two I could see Martin coming in for if the new investment means they could afford them. AA would score plenty in the SPL and enjoys working with that manager. Aribo would win over their fanbase quickly pre-season. We bought Aribo from Rangers. How is he viewed by their fans now?
coalman Posted June 6 Posted June 6 1 hour ago, Chez said: Anyone got a stat as to how many decent goalscoring chances he got this season? He may feel that we created jack, so that was to blame rather than his inability to create a chance for himself etc. https://theanalyst.com/football/player/sc-155511/adam-armstrong/stats He scored 3 goals against expected goals of 3.77. 25 shots. 10 shots on target. 1
Gloucester Saint Posted June 6 Posted June 6 (edited) 7 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said: We bought Aribo from Rangers. How is he viewed by their fans now? Scored in the Europa Final, integral in Gerrard’s title winning team, pretty popular. Might be on if they can agree on wages. Fee probably what we paid them given he only has a year left https://www.panafricafootball.com/post/joe-aribo-seeks-rangers-return-eyes-southampton-exit Edited June 6 by Gloucester Saint Gerrard 1
Midfield_General Posted June 6 Posted June 6 2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said: We bought Aribo from Rangers. How is he viewed by their fans now? They really like him up there 2
UpweySaint Posted June 6 Posted June 6 20 minutes ago, Tommy Mulgrew said: As do some of us down here. Really like him? I can’t see there being too many in that camp. He’s been distinctly average and I can’t imagine much more than a collective shrug if he stays or goes. If he goes you hope we can find somebody better- if he stays he is a good squad option and has demonstrable versatility. Nothing against him but I would be curious if there are reasons, footballing or otherwise, saints fans would have strong views on Aribo? Other than having a decent-ish song that’s easy to trot out … 3
Tommy Mulgrew Posted June 6 Posted June 6 It took all of 24 minutes but I caught one! ☺️ 4 minutes ago, UpweySaint said: Really like him? I can’t see there being too many in that camp. He’s been distinctly average and I can’t imagine much more than a collective shrug if he stays or goes. If he goes you hope we can find somebody better- if he stays he is a good squad option and has demonstrable versatility. Nothing against him but I would be curious if there are reasons, footballing or otherwise, saints fans would have strong views on Aribo? Other than having a decent-ish song that’s easy to trot out …
UpweySaint Posted June 6 Posted June 6 25 minutes ago, Tommy Mulgrew said: It took all of 24 minutes but I caught one! ☺️ Fair enough, good fishing! 😅 1
Convict Colony Posted June 7 Posted June 7 Just to muse on Armstrong and the other dwarf we own archer. Honestly I'd be more than happy to move them on, I think to maximise the potential goals we need strikers who have height, pace and physicality. Armstrong is a finisher but doesn't have any or the above and Archer isn't even a finisher. I like Stewart's profile, just hate his injury record, seems like he has a bit of pace, physical and can score if fit and good endurance over a game. 2
Convict Colony Posted June 7 Posted June 7 Also when people say he can get you goals at this level haven't learnt from the last season. We need players who talent wise shouldn't really be at this level but are undervalued and suited for this type of style of play but could be premier league type players. 1 1
goodymatt Posted June 7 Posted June 7 34 minutes ago, Convict Colony said: Also when people say he can get you goals at this level haven't learnt from the last season. We need players who talent wise shouldn't really be at this level but are undervalued and suited for this type of style of play but could be premier league type players. Very difficult to do and most likely would be via a loan, which like Brooks might not be signed on promotion. Look at Downes and THB loans to perm, we thought they could step up but in reality they both struggled. Attracting the players that can step up is very difficult. We will need to get ourselves back up and then strengthen properly as a PL club with PL wages. 1
Sunnyside Saint Posted June 7 Posted June 7 Talk of building a new squad for the Championship that can also compete in the Premier League I think is increasingly unrealistic. Perhaps unlike coming up through the lower echelons of the pyramid (i.e. as Ipswich just did, perhaps Wrexham) the Champ. to EPL gulf is widening and the last two seasons have shown that maybe promoted teams are now fundamentally not going to be good enough to compete. Though, interesting to see how this year's promoted teams get on to see if this is really becoming a trend. Perhaps the Forest approach will become the template, have a massive overhaul of the squad on promotion, hope you can get it to gel and survive in the first year and build from there. As we know, the recruitment game if you are an EPL club is entirely different to that of a Championship club. So is it the answer to just focus on building a team good enough to get promoted, ignore the medium/longer term, and accept that a total reset will be required for the following EPL season. If so, AA and other incumbents could still have a part to play in season 25/26? 1
skintsaint Posted June 7 Posted June 7 (edited) 3 hours ago, Convict Colony said: Just to muse on Armstrong and the other dwarf we own archer. Archer is 5'11 😅 Which means the average bloke in the UK is a dwarf. Edited June 7 by skintsaint 1
sfc4prem Posted June 7 Posted June 7 32 minutes ago, skintsaint said: Archer is 5'11 😅 Which means the average bloke in the UK is a dwarf. *MLG mode activated* The average height of UK males is 5'9". So technically, Archer is above average height and therefore Convict Colony's statement infers that the average man in the UK is smaller than a dwarf! Incredible, right? *MLG mode deactivated* 2
RedArmy Posted June 7 Posted June 7 4 hours ago, Convict Colony said: Just to muse on Armstrong and the other dwarf we own archer. Honestly I'd be more than happy to move them on, I think to maximise the potential goals we need strikers who have height, pace and physicality. Armstrong is a finisher but doesn't have any or the above and Archer isn't even a finisher. I like Stewart's profile, just hate his injury record, seems like he has a bit of pace, physical and can score if fit and good endurance over a game. I think Archer is worth another season at least, his record shows that he will definitely get you goals in this league. He’s got an eye for goal and bags of pace but like Armstrong maybe benefits from the extra time and space you get in the championship. Time will tell if the championship is his level, but at 23 years old I wouldn’t be prepared to give up on him just yet. 3
Matthew Le God Posted June 7 Posted June 7 59 minutes ago, sfc4prem said: *MLG mode activated* The average height of UK males is 5'9". So technically, Archer is above average height and therefore Convict Colony's statement infers that the average man in the UK is smaller than a dwarf! Incredible, right? *MLG mode deactivated* MLG is not a mode to be activated, it is a way of being! 1
Toussaint Posted June 7 Posted June 7 1 hour ago, skintsaint said: Archer is 5'11 😅 Which means the average bloke in the UK is a dwarf. Just under 5’9
Saint Fan CaM Posted June 7 Posted June 7 1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said: MLG is not a mode to be activated, it is a way of being weird! Fixed it for you…😉 1
OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint Posted June 7 Posted June 7 4 hours ago, skintsaint said: Archer is 5'11 😅 Which means the average bloke in the UK is a dwarf. In the words of Billy Connolly, "there is a difference between a little person and a dwarf ... one of them is a fucking dwarf ... and they both know which one it fucking is". AA is a dwarf! Only Saints could play him as a No9 target man. Apparently, he fancies himself in the centre forward role, but please no. That ship has sailed. 2
Matthew Le God Posted June 7 Posted June 7 (edited) 5 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said: In the words of Billy Connolly, "there is a difference between a little person and a dwarf ... one of them is a fucking dwarf ... and they both know which one it fucking is". AA is a dwarf! Only Saints could play him as a No9 target man. Apparently, he fancies himself in the centre forward role, but please no. That ship has sailed. When was that? Some managers have played him centrally, but never in a target man role. Edited June 7 by Matthew Le God
OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint Posted June 7 Posted June 7 11 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: When was that? Some managers have played him centrally, but never in a target man role. As far as I'm concerned, if you're played centrally, then you're the target man. 1
Matthew Le God Posted June 7 Posted June 7 2 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said: As far as I'm concerned, if you're played centrally, then you're the target man. It is 2025, not 1975. Player roles don't work like that.
Cabrone Posted June 7 Posted June 7 He's good at this level so keep him. If we get back up then we don't need him but right now we'd be silly to let him go IMO. 1
Convict Colony Posted June 7 Posted June 7 6 hours ago, skintsaint said: Archer is 5'11 😅 Which means the average bloke in the UK is a dwarf. Everyone under 6ft is a dwarf.
chiknsmack Posted June 8 Posted June 8 17 hours ago, skintsaint said: Archer is 5'11 😅 Which means the average bloke in the UK is a dwarf. Transfermarkt has Archer at 175cm, or 5'7.5". Less than an inch taller than Armstrong.
skintsaint Posted June 8 Posted June 8 3 hours ago, chiknsmack said: Transfermarkt has Archer at 175cm, or 5'7.5". Less than an inch taller than Armstrong.
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