Saints 4-4 Norwich

[derry]

The team collectively need to be shown the good then the bad. the defending was abysmal two were dead ball situations. The hair dryer needs an airing and those goals pinpointed. KWP for the first and Alcaraz for the second went missing and switched off. Secondly this zonal non marking is garbage. We need the three best headers to attack the ball front post, middle and back post every other player marks tight. All the zonal marking theory does is give every player a ready made excuse that it's somebody elses fault. Just milling about in the box is rubbish defending.

I watched the Nigerian women come within a hairs breath of knocking England out of the World Cup with a superb demonstration of close marking without the ball. That's the way to play when opponents have the ball. It was proper in your face defending from front to back. The result of coaching something we obviously don't do because it's been happening for years. Get a proper defensive coach in and insist on total concentration and taking the responsibility to defend properly.

I go along with the possession football, I love it, lose the ball so lose the nice and adopt the ruthless. We need to concentrate better, KWP, Stephens and Alcaraz were examples of what not to do. All four goals conceded were either non marking or taking the easy option of just standing in front of attackers. Manning's clusterfuck was just poor decision making, trying to pull the ball down as the last man with pressure approaching is stupidity time to put a foot through the ball. 

[Convict Colony]

Also Bazunu had ZERO chance with all Norwich's goals they were excellent.

[Lymington Saint]

7 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Just watched the highlights. Bloody hell, our lot really need to learn how to defend as a team. Goal 1, so easy to allow the cross in then minimal defending, the lad just nods it in at the back post. Number 2, all three of our central midfielders just allow them to play straight through us, hot knife through butter. Goal 3, appalling defending from a corner, free header from 8 yards out. Goal 4, hapless defending from Manning just gifting the striker a clean shot. All 4 goals were entirely avoidable, it’s not just the defenders that were culpable, we just don’t look very good at defending as a team. Hopefully we can get the Downes signing over the line and Shea Charles can get up to speed and give the midfield a bit of solidity, we look extremely porous based on that showing.

Also, I’m absolutely no fan of Bazunu, I think he’s absolutely terrible, but I wouldn’t be blaming him for any of those goals. He wasn’t positioned all that great for the first one, but aside from that he couldn’t do much about the others.

Was just about to post something similar and you beat me to it.  Goal 2 was well worked, but the others were dreadful.  Goal 3 was a well directed free header and he had no one on him to put him off.  Manning was at fault for goal 4 but it was 2 against 1.  There was a Norwich player coming in behind him completely free.  Defensively we were terrible.

On the plus side I enjoyed the game far more than any last season.  We do at least seem to have a way of playing, create chances and looks like the 11 starters will stay the season. Issue is how many of the other players will leave and who will be brought in.  We need someone bigger than Armstrong up front who can hold the ball up and also be a target, and who isnt Tall Paul.

[saintant]

3 minutes ago, derry said:

The team collectively need to be shown the good then the bad. the defending was abysmal two were dead ball situations. The hair dryer needs an airing and those goals pinpointed. KWP for the first and Alcaraz for the second went missing and switched off. Secondly this zonal non marking is garbage. We need the three best headers to attack the ball front post, middle and back post every other player marks tight. All the zonal marking theory does is give every player a ready made excuse that it's somebody elses fault. Just milling about in the box is rubbish defending.

I watched the Nigerian women come within a hairs breath of knocking England out of the World Cup with a superb demonstration of close marking without the ball. That's the way to play when opponents have the ball. It was proper in your face defending from front to back. The result of coaching something we obviously don't do because it's been happening for years. Get a proper defensive coach in and insist on total concentration and taking the responsibility to defend properly.

I go along with the possession football, I love it, lose the ball so lose the nice and adopt the ruthless. We need to concentrate better, KWP, Stephens and Alcaraz were examples of what not to do. All four goals conceded were either non marking or taking the easy option of just standing in front of attackers. Manning's clusterfuck was just poor decision making, trying to pull the ball down as the last man with pressure approaching is stupidity time to put a foot through the ball. 

If we really are using zonal marking then we will continue to leak goals. It is a nonsense way of defending.

[Convict Colony]

4 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

Also Bazunu had ZERO chance with all Norwich's goals they were excellent.

Even Russell saying both goalkeepers had no chance with all 8 goals🤣

[whelk]

15 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Bearded vaping cunts.

Great band

[The Kraken]

6 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

Also Bazunu had ZERO chance with all Norwich's goals they were excellent.

I wouldn’t say Norwich’s goals were excellent. Goal two was an absolute thumping strike but all four could have been prevented, our whole team’s defending as a unit was risible.

As for Bazunu, as I said above I think he has no chance with goals 2-4 but goal 1, I’d be critical of his positioning. Crap defending to let Norwich get down the channel so easily then be allowed easily again to get the cross in, and Bednarek was totally hopeless doing his job. But look where the ball has come from and where it’s being headed from, imo a keeper has got to be dominating his 6 yard box, that was a floated cross. Just piss poor from gk, defenders and midfielders.

[Wsaint]

22 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Bearded vaping cunts.

Who hurt you? 

[miserableoldgit]

29 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Bearded vaping cunts.

You OK Hun??

[BERMUDASAINT]

4 hours ago, david in sweden said:

Exactly .. for years we moaned because we could watch SKY (or whoever's) replays and see correct decisions even if referees were 20 yards behind 

the play and / or misjudged situations,  or even those cases when the linesman got it wrong. 

Looking at the potential benefits of promotion to the Prem... isn't it time to play fair and have compulsory VAR in Championship matches, too?.... 

It's not a " cheap league " to be playing in and every club deserves to know they are getting fair and correct decisions.

Imagine ...... losing out on promotion because of one wrong offside decision.     The prospect is frightening. 

The ONLY moaning that the FA heard was the big boys getting cheated out by bad ref decisions. All those years we smaller clubs saw dicisions going to the big clubs, the FA were ok with that. They introduce VAR and in a few months they had tweeked it to help the chosen few. It is now a usefull tool for the FA to gurantee they can keep the status quo happy.

If VAR was used, would we have gotten that KWP penalty, in real time it looked like a reckless barge from behind. But on replay not so convincing as Kwp "creates" the foul buy stepping across the def?

Also, didn't the new rules about contact in the box "pull or push, no attempt at playing the ball" was supposed to be a straight red card? Would have been harsh, but i didn't make those new rules.

[Saint Matty 76]

Bit of a lazy question but useful to know for future games - did we manage to find a stream? 

[bugenhagen]

53 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

There are layers to our fuck ups, just done a quick review of goal 1 - sequence here https://youtu.be/WGEgc7zgWRc?t=25

 

This is why I don't want Bednarek in our team, and why I believe we can't get promoted if he plays most games. He allways leaves spaces, making it so much harder for the rest of our defence and midfield to cover for him every time he moves out of the positions/spaces he should be in. He is playing like some old fashioned sweeper, that is not supposed to mark players, just take out the right spaces to intercept or cover. The only difference is that he does it to hide, or get away from the situations, and stands around pointing after the damage is done. Horrible player...

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, SotonianWill said:

I don’t know why people are getting annoyed about goal music, we’ve had it for years. We just hadn’t realised as we never scored.

Perhaps not, but it only belongs in Ice Hockey and even then it is naff.

[skintsaint]

56 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

But look where the ball has come from and where it’s being headed from, imo a keeper has got to be dominating his 6 yard box, that was a floated cross. Just piss poor from gk, defenders and midfielders.

Good luck any keeper trying to reach a ball on this trajectory and coming across the goal. 

 

[Whitey Grandad]

5 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Good luck any keeper trying to reach a ball on this trajectory and coming across the goal. 

 

Five defenders plus goalkeeper and three unmarked attackers. Not to mention the full back who had all the time and space in the world to pick out his target.

[The Kraken]

32 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Good luck any keeper trying to reach a ball on this trajectory and coming across the goal.

That’s my point, I don’t think his starting position is very good considering it’s pretty obvious a cross is coming in, once the cross is hit Bazunu is obviously struggling and scrambling to get in position.

In any case it’s a moot point as there’s various other players who are much more culpable for that goal than Bazunu, just a horror show all round and the lack of marking is simply atrocious, unforgivable. Look how much space the striker has from the moment the cross is hit, it’s pathetic defending.

Edited 13 August, 2023 by The Kraken

[gordonToo]

An horrific goal to give away on so many levels but the problem is not Bazuna on this occasion. The Norwich player is able to chest the ball down and lay it off unchallanged. Edozie is ball watching and fails to see the overlap. Bednarek is also ball watching, loses his man and leaves a simple header. An experienced CB that can organise a defence is badly needed and Stephens is not that man IMO.

[saintant]

39 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Good luck any keeper trying to reach a ball on this trajectory and coming across the goal. 

 

Depends on his starting position I guess. Near post, no chance. Centre of goal he should jump and catch/punch that looking at the blue line.

[Whitey Grandad]

3 minutes ago, saintant said:

Depends on his starting position I guess. Near post, no chance. Centre of goal he should jump and catch/punch that looking at the blue line.

Not a chance. We’re you there?

[saintant]

3 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Not a chance. We’re you there?

Why would that make a difference?

[Whitey Grandad]

Just now, saintant said:

Why would that make a difference?

Because you might have had a different opinion. 

[saintant]

1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Because you might have had a different opinion. 

I've watched the goal several times on the highlights. We'll have to agree to differ.  Whether Bazunu could have done better on any of the goal yesterday or not I remain of the opinion that he is nowhere near ready for the number one spot. He may improve with age and experience but right now he falls way short of what we require and will cost us goals and points. 

[saintant]

49 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Not a chance. We’re you there?

Just out of interest was Bazunu's starting position at the near post correct? If so can you explain why he should be there rather than in the centre of the goal. I'm happy to be proved wrong on this so hopefully you or someone else with goalkeeping experience could point out why I am mistaken on this.

[Whitey Grandad]

58 minutes ago, saintant said:

I've watched the goal several times on the highlights. We'll have to agree to differ.  Whether Bazunu could have done better on any of the goal yesterday or not I remain of the opinion that he is nowhere near ready for the number one spot. He may improve with age and experience but right now he falls way short of what we require and will cost us goals and points. 

I don’t disagree with the first part of what you say here but he didn’t cost us any goals yesterday and on that defensive showing I would think that there were far more productive areas to concentrate on if we are to stop shipping goals. To put it another way, it wouldn’t have mattered who we had in goal on this occasion.

17 minutes ago, saintant said:

Just out of interest was Bazunu's starting position at the near post correct? If so can you explain why he should be there rather than in the centre of the goal. I'm happy to be proved wrong on this so hopefully you or someone else with goalkeeping experience could point out why I am mistaken on this.

He was at the near post because there was an unmarked attacker there. Suddenly both  Stephens and Bednarek decide that the right thing for them to do was to come across and stand behind him completely ignoring the eventual goalscorer. Had he been in the centre of the goal I doubt he would have even stretched far enough to pick Sargent’s nose.

[The Cat]

14 minutes ago, saintant said:

Just out of interest was Bazunu's starting position at the near post correct? If so can you explain why he should be there rather than in the centre of the goal. I'm happy to be proved wrong on this so hopefully you or someone else with goalkeeping experience could point out why I am mistaken on this.

His starting position is aggressive but fine. That is very much where any modern keeper would stand.

In the picture attached the biggest danger at that moment should be the ball whipped along the floor into the front post area which is why he is stood where he is.

However what we also see is the moment when Bazunu tells Stephens and Bednarek to watch Sergeant but they ignore him and end up marking the same man.

We also have LB and LM stood next to each other, neither putting any pressure on the cross.

There's so much going on here that is obviously wrong. No pressure on the cross. CB's ignoring the keeper. No challenge on Sergeant. If any of those happened it's likely the goal isn't scored.

[lambtiss]

9 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

Thought Alcaraz's touch and short passing were off today, he was a bit laboured in tracking back as well. He gets in great positions and if he was more on it we would have been more effective, he did hsve better spells.

Tella was disappointing, shit touch and his body language was off at times, Martin was telling to track back better in the first half and he flung his arms out. He wanted to take the penalty, when surely the penalty taker is already agreed. He'll be our first to get sent off for two disent yellows.

Smallbone was good, constantly running and covering the space, stopped attacks building, good range of passing as well. He, and Stu A were a bit half hearted for their third goal. Got to keep hold of him.

Adams looked good when he came on, strong with his back to goal.

There was a long ball up the line to KWP, he gave up on it and embarrassingly for him in rolled in play for ages, showing he could have got it with a bit more effort.

Stephens has a short pass fuck up in him waiting to happen, although his block for a certain goal was crucial.

Manning just had to smash that ball away.

Enjoyable rollercoaster, but we are too vulnerable.

I agree with all of that. Tells looks to me as if he doesn’t want to be here. If that is true then we should sell him. Sam AA looks up for it and very direct.

[Badger]

7 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

I fucking hate the football buzzwords:

’pressing’ non-hipsters used to call it closing down.

’transition’ non-hipsters used to call it on the break.

’Low block’ non-hipsters used to call it defending deep.

Fucking winds me up.

 

after the Everton away game I heard Jones on the radio describing JWP as one of the best 'technicians' in the game. Hadn't heard the phrase used before but that night and for a couple of weeks the MOTD panel and others were using it quite regularly.

4 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

'Against the ball', that triggers the old boys.

As opposed to "without the ball", or was that just for Ely ?

3 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

I don’t mind that.  Big Ron started that one, so it’s old school as far as I’m concerned.

Big Ron was known for a few phrases, I think 'dinked it' might have been another. Then there are others that would be censored today.

[Badger]

3 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

Even Russell saying both goalkeepers had no chance with all 8 goals🤣

did he add 'especially ours, cos he's shit at the best of times ..' ?

(Just to add I wouldn't fault him for yesterday).

[Badger]

3 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

Also Bazunu had ZERO chance with all Norwich's goals they were excellent.

They were well taken, but from our angle they were given too much time and space (and a gift wrapped opportunity for the fourth).

[Badger]

6 hours ago, SotonianWill said:

I don’t know why people are getting annoyed about goal music, we’ve had it for years. We just hadn’t realised as we never scored.

Improvement on the crap last time, but still crap

Really does feel like 'foam hands' party time when its played (fit for a 'Noddy Club' as someone on here terms it).

[OttawaSaint]

26 minutes ago, Badger said:

after the Everton away game I heard Jones on the radio describing JWP as one of the best 'technicians' in the game. Hadn't heard the phrase used before but that night and for a couple of weeks the MOTD panel and others were using it quite regularly.

As opposed to "without the ball", or was that just for Ely ?

Big Ron was known for a few phrases, I think 'dinked it' might have been another. Then there are others that would be censored today.

My fave Ronisms:

"Little eyebrows" for a deft header.

"Spotter's badge" for a player showing awareness and intercepting a pass.

[Badger]

1 minute ago, OttawaSaint said:

My fave Ronisms:

"Little eyebrows" for a deft header.

"Spotter's badge" for a player showing awareness and intercepting a pass.

Was it him or Hansen who came up with 'early doors' ?

[OttawaSaint]

15 minutes ago, Badger said:

Was it him or Hansen who came up with 'early doors' ?

Ron I think.

[SNSUN]

8 hours ago, david in sweden said:

Exactly .. for years we moaned because we could watch SKY (or whoever's) replays and see correct decisions even if referees were 20 yards behind 

the play and / or misjudged situations,  or even those cases when the linesman got it wrong. 

Looking at the potential benefits of promotion to the Prem... isn't it time to play fair and have compulsory VAR in Championship matches, too?.... 

It's not a " cheap league " to be playing in and every club deserves to know they are getting fair and correct decisions.

Imagine ...... losing out on promotion because of one wrong offside decision.     The prospect is frightening. 

Then we'd better make sure we get enough points on the board that one wrong decision doesn't affect us. 

7 hours ago, Totton Saint said:

Looks like we have a good replacement for JWP taking penalties in Adam Armstrong.

His penalties were confidently dispatched, especially the pressure of the second to get us a point. They weren't bang in the corner though and a keeper going the right way could have got to them... but the power was enough that even if that happened the rebound is possible. I do like a powerful penalty and to be fair to AA he really hit them. The issue with him being our penalty taker though is that he has to be on the pitch to score them. Right now I'm not sure I'd have him up top long term (though perhaps in a wide position maybe and to his credit, that tracking back and tackle he made in the second half was exceptional). I'm a fan of Tella and I hope we keep him but maybe Adams, AA and Edozie would be a good starting attacking trio.

7 hours ago, SotonianWill said:

I don’t know why people are getting annoyed about goal music, we’ve had it for years. We just hadn’t realised as we never scored.

My daughter loved it and was wiggling her butt whenever a goal went in. Maybe one for the younger generations.

[Osvaldorama]

Can’t believe how much moaning is going on. 
 

Entertainment is back at St Mary’s. I for one am absolutely buzzing about this season now 

[coalman]

Last season we lose that 4-1 and have no shots in the second half. Not that I want to watch that defending all season but I didn't resent the time I spent watching that.

[Daft Kerplunk]

5 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Perhaps not, but it only belongs in Ice Hockey and even then it is naff.

Didn’t have it for awhile. Let the fans celebrate. Goal music belongs in the bin, or in rugby matches when a try is scored. Noddy. 

[verlaine1979]

Thought Alcaraz seemed to be playing from very deep against Wednesday, but didn't see yesterday's game as it wasn't shown in the US. Did he play in the same position again? Would much prefer him playing closer to the goal.

[davefizzy14]

That was a thrilling game to watch. We were electric going forward but we have got to be more solid defensively. Hopefully that will help with further signings to bolster the side. Adam Armstrong was brilliant, two lovely taken penalties and the tracking back and tackle in the second half was exceptional my MOTM. Smallbone was excellent once again, controlling things in the middle and a lovely finish from Che when he came on Bednarek's finish from close range was well taken too COYR

Edited 13 August, 2023 by davefizzy14

[niceandfriendly]

Such a great game and a brilliant atmosphere, even in the Chapel! We need to tighten up at the back but we played some excellent football and we’ll beat most teams playing like that. We have some excellent players for this league. Great day. 

[Stud mark of doom]

18 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

I don’t mind that.  Big Ron started that one, so it’s old school as far as I’m concerned.

Big Ronisms are definitely in the clear in my book. A personal favourite is someone doing “a great arrive” to slot home.
 

[Charlie Wayman]

A shambolic performance that hardly inspires confidence. If this level of incompetence continues Saints will be nowhere near the top six

[Turkish]

Highest attendance in the championship yesterday. Great to see a decent crowd. Last time we went down to the championship we only got about 21k for our first game which was a dull 0-0 with Wolves 

[Wilf]

My favourite Ron moment was when he spoiled the moment when co-commentating with Brian Moore during some international game

There was a pause in play and the camera panned across the celebs in the posh seats...

"There's the great Pele" said Brian, "...and The Kaiser Franz Beckenbaur..."

"and there's my neighbour Mrs Millichip!" interrupts Ron

[eurosaint]

Hoddle also has a few Ron-isms, my favourite being - they've got to be looking for "them little pockets" 😆 !

[saintant]

His sacking was typical of his flowery language when describing, in his own words, the lazy attitude of a large black player which was caught, unbeknown to Big Ron, on a live mic.

[S-Clarke]

9 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

A shambolic performance that hardly inspires confidence. If this level of incompetence continues Saints will be nowhere near the top six

I love your words of wisdom. I feel more confident afterwards.

[S-Clarke]

9 hours ago, Turkish said:

Highest attendance in the championship yesterday. Great to see a decent crowd. Last time we went down to the championship we only got about 21k for our first game which was a dull 0-0 with Wolves 

Can't say the fans haven't got behind this, we're going to give it our best shot! The atmosphere was great as well, no real complaints or groans from where I was - I think as a fan base we're ready to give a clean slate here and hopefully get behind a successful year. Hopefully the players can buy into that.