Preston 2-2 Saints - Match Thread

[Fabrice29]

1 minute ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Just saying, but Martin is managing us in the Championship. Not really a fair comparison

True, but other than THB and S Armstrong a while ago there’s nobody in our squad with a proven record of winning games on a regular basis at first team level so this idea that we should be entitled to and expectant of promotion out of this league with ease baffles me.   I’m expecting promotion like the rest of you, but with ease? With this squad? Nah. 

[woodsaint1]

18 minutes ago, doc oli said:

I went and I enjoyed it. Football. Drama. Storylines. It’s what it’s all about. 
I didn’t enjoy much of the last few years of premier league football. So fuck it if we don’t go up. 

Here here. A 95th minute winner and a 96th minute equaliser (involving our keeper) in the space of 4 days. Yes there will be supporters expecting us to roll teams over like its our god given right, but to me I'm just happy with the new surroundings, the new opposition and some positive results. Last season a positive result was not getting hammered. Barely watched a PL game this season and I havent missed it

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 minute ago, Fabrice29 said:

True, but other than THB and S Armstrong a while ago there’s nobody in our squad with a proven record of winning games on a regular basis at first team level so this idea that we should be entitled to and expectant of promotion out of this league with ease baffles me.   I’m expecting promotion like the rest of you, but with ease? With this squad? Nah. 

I think we have suffered because Leicester and to a degree Ipswich, have pulled away from the pack. Without that, I think most fans would have accepted where we are. Leicester's squad is far and away the best in the division.

[kevdoh]

7 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Yes Pep might be one of the greatest managers of all time and Southgate isn’t. Really proving your simple tag wrong there.

Now stop replying to me until you can actually provide evidence of  ‘We have a squad that any half decent, tactically aware manager would get us promoted with ease’ because all I see is a group of players that has consistently lost games of football for 3 years and with 4 managers in that time, the only one that has got them winning games on some level is this one. 

Oh and btw, you saying it over and over again doesn’t make it evidence. 

Can your simple mind understand that our squad is easily in the best 3 of this division? Easily. Hence why we were among the favourites to win/promoted with the bookies and the fact we kept a few top quality players that were expected to leave. Decent managers get the best out of the best players. They don't have one system only and no other plan. Only have to look when Sunderland spanked us. A seasoned experienced manager like mowbray sets his team up depending on who they're playing. Sunderland are shite but he knew how we would play and set his team up with inferior players to beat us. We play one way only and if it doesn't work Martin just comes out and says it takes time and the rest of the bullshit

[suewhistle]

Well, the local pub did show the game, amazingly; there was another Saints fan there too, but I'm not sure whether seeing that games was a good or bad thing..

At least I stayed to the end, spent a bit on a few beers and had some interesting conversation with some non-Saints fans. But what a hard watch: poor passing, often behind the player even when not under pressure, early on a bit of movement by the forwards but no early balls to them, then later no movement at all. I really shouldn't shout at the screen like I do! So many players receiving the ball when static which doesn't help when you are attacking, a cross by Kamaldeen (I think) with about half a dozen players back in midfield (more shouting at the screen..).

I'll be there on Saturday but it's very difficult to be my normal optimistic self, which is amazing in itself, having been a Saints fan for 50+ years!

 

 

[warsash saint]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

No, people don't understand this. I've realised that the vast majority of fans who post on this site are morons. I've only been on here about 6 months, but I've already cut down my posting as reading this forum is making me stupider. 

Surprised it took you 6 months to work it out!

[warsash saint]

39 minutes ago, kevdoh said:

Can your simple mind understand that our squad is easily in the best 3 of this division? Easily. Hence why we were among the favourites to win/promoted with the bookies and the fact we kept a few top quality players that were expected to leave. Decent managers get the best out of the best players. They don't have one system only and no other plan. Only have to look when Sunderland spanked us. A seasoned experienced manager like mowbray sets his team up depending on who they're playing. Sunderland are shite but he knew how we would play and set his team up with inferior players to beat us. We play one way only and if it doesn't work Martin just comes out and says it takes time and the rest of the bullshit

Do you honestly believe this???

[Dark Munster]

20 minutes ago, warsash saint said:

Do you honestly believe this???

Apart from Leicester name two more that are better. 

[Convict Colony]

I'd be interested in those who went to the tactical evening how they viewed the last 2 games, were certain players not doing what martin instructed etc ? where was the issue ?

[SWLondonSaint]

Draw clearly the fair result. If we didn’t have a mental start to the second half, probably would be walking away with all 3 as Preston offered very little.

A 90 minute performance would be nice at least once this season.

[Cabrone]

5th in the table despite RMs one dimensional approach to every game. Imagine what we could do if we had a tactically aware mgr 

[Master Bates]

9 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

I can tell those are impact marks from you punching the screen so much this season 🤣

Nah, i dropped it.

[Tamesaint]

6 hours ago, warsash saint said:

Do you honestly believe this???

Read the match thread. Apart from KWP I don't think that there is a single player who wasn't called "shit" at some time during the game. 

 

[Long Shot]

Well we seem to be managing to pick up points which to many is all that matters but we remain a side that lacks conviction. To that end I remain very unconvinced by Russell Martin’s managerial abilities. 

[hypochondriac]

It's a good draw and a positive that we are scoring late goals. Still a crap performance though and I don't have much confidence that we will be able to keep this up. Still much too close to mid table for comfort. 

[adrian lord]

When all is said and done, we are in the playoff positions which is the minimum target this season. 

But we are making very heavy weather of it all. 

Edited 26 October, 2023 by adrian lord

[LGTL]

7 hours ago, warsash saint said:

Do you honestly believe this???

Absolutely it is. We are being criminally mismanaged by Martin.

I just don’t understand how anyone can still be defending him. The worst defensive record in the league is a complete embarrassment and actually a disgrace. Last second goals will dry up eventually but conceding the number of goals we do under this clown will not. 

[rallyboy]

Just to highlight one modest bit of improvement, you imagine what could have been achieved last season had we actually gone after a few last minute goals rather than pottering about in our own half until the final whistle went.

 

[Mr X]

We stole a point at the end, we didn’t deserve, we had around 73% possession in the first half and two shots on goal, and they had 27% with four shots on goal.. that statistic alone is enough to tell you, we are doing it wrong

[Galway saint]

Thought that was pretty dire.

RM said it will take time but i don’t really see any progression as a team and last night was really disjointed.

he can’t help the defensive changes but offensively we were poor and created little.

i also thought charles had a poor game. seems very nervous on the ball and tentative. as someone said at that price tag he should be dominating this division.

however ultimately we are performing as all RM teams have performed. we have better players than he had at swansea and MK Dons but he’s never going to achieve much as his teams concede too many goals and still do as we have the worst defensive record in the division. i don’t see that frailty changing given his style of play.

the obvious worry is that if we don’t go up we will lose the better players next season and we then gradually morph into Stoke, Sunderland etc. as the money dries up 

 

 

 

[macca155]

I'm having to deal with my expectations and sense of entitlement. I thought it would be easier than this. I suspect others are too.

The cold hard truth is that the squad has significant gaps, and are simply not coping with  the physical aspect of this league. I remain unconvinced by Martin's strategy but it isn't a disaster yet, so give it time.

Leicester were always going to walk this league, so forget them. Ipswich are doing well but hopefully they'll lose momentum. Saints sit 5th in the hunt for a play off position. No good whining about it, just need to stay in the battle. A win Saturday means 7 points out of 9, a good return for this week.

Positives. Bree did well, looked quicker and more physical than Manning. Downes is starting to look an excellent buy.

Definitely need Stephen's back, this team simply cannot cope when under a sustained physical pressure. Other teams can only do that for short periods, but they know Saints fold so it is an obvious tactic.

A lot depends on Stewart finding form, and SR buying in a couple of physical players in January. A defensive midfielder is an absolute must.

[lambtiss]

It's the not creating any chances when we have so much possession that drives me nuts. Martin seems happy that endless possession means that we are controlling the game but if matters nowt if you are not creating chances. That's three games in a row where we go 1-0 up and then sit back and concede. Two late goals have saved us from 2 points out of 9.

[Charlie Wayman]

26 minutes ago, macca155 said:

 

Definitely need Stephen's back, this team simply cannot cope when under a sustained physical pressure.

Speaks volumes.

[SambaMaverick]

The football is just wank. It really is.

There was absolutely nothing in behind yesterday. That right-hand side was a disaster, barring KWP's goal. AA was playing far too narrow, meaning they knew the ball was going out to Edozie, who was crowded out by two or three men at a time.

Width is crucial in a league like this, and when we have (seemingly) superior options out on the flanks, why not fucking use it?

[saintant]

9 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

Yes Pep might be one of the greatest managers of all time and Southgate isn’t. Really proving your simple tag wrong there.

Now stop replying to me until you can actually provide evidence of  ‘We have a squad that any half decent, tactically aware manager would get us promoted with ease’ because all I see is a group of players that has consistently lost games of football for 3 years and with 4 managers in that time, the only one that has got them winning games on some level is this one. 

Oh and btw, you saying it over and over again doesn’t make it evidence. 

You might like to factor in that the main reason we are wining football matches is because we have dropped down a league and the skill gulf is massive. It's relevant.

[tdmickey3]

10 hours ago, doc oli said:

I went and I enjoyed it. Football. Drama. Storylines. It’s what it’s all about. 
I didn’t enjoy much of the last few years of premier league football. So fuck it if we don’t go up. 

A perfect example of a mediocrity accepting fan and to actually say he enjoyed that turgid shite is astounding, must have no idea what is to have a team try to win instead of just keeping the ball for the sake of it.

To many fans like this I reckon, certainly a fair few on here.

You enjoy mediocrity, well, under mr 1 dimensional that is as good as it will get.

[macca155]

26 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Speaks volumes.

Why? Stephen's is a solid player and will add a physical presence. I really don't understand the agenda against him. Saints are a better team when he is playing.

[ErwinK1961]

3 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

A perfect example of a mediocrity accepting fan and to actually say he enjoyed that turgid shite is astounding, must have no idea what is to have a team try to win instead of just keeping the ball for the sake of it.

To many fans like this I reckon, certainly a fair few on here.

You enjoy mediocrity, well, under mr 1 dimensional that is as good as it will get.

Mocking a fan who’s made the effort to go to an away game up north, when all you do is lurk on a football forum clicking the laugh emoji. Top work.

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, Mr X said:

We stole a point at the end, we didn’t deserve, we had around 73% possession in the first half and two shots on goal, and they had 27% with four shots on goal.. that statistic alone is enough to tell you, we are doing it wrong

you seem to have forgotten one quite important stat from the first half.... other than that I'm with you

[notnowcato]

29 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

The football is just wank. It really is.

There was absolutely nothing in behind yesterday. That right-hand side was a disaster, barring KWP's goal. AA was playing far too narrow, meaning they knew the ball was going out to Edozie, who was crowded out by two or three men at a time.

Width is crucial in a league like this, and when we have (seemingly) superior options out on the flanks, why not fucking use it?

Erm probably because we played KWP much higher than we did Bree, we've been doing this for a few games now.

[Fabrice29]

32 minutes ago, saintant said:

You might like to factor in that the main reason we are wining football matches is because we have dropped down a league and the skill gulf is massive. It's relevant.

Yes, I agree. Parts of this squad has found its level. Some are young and will grow but our experienced players have found it’s level and it’s currently 5th with 33 games left. We’re doing okay, things could go either way right now, but certainly no evidence to suggest we should be out of this league with ease. That would suggest we have a high number of PL level players which we know isn’t the case because when we were there we struggled for years.

[SambaMaverick]

4 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Erm probably because we played KWP much higher than we did Bree, we've been doing this for a few games now.

Yeah and it's shit.

[SNSUN]

12 hours ago, SNSUN said:

But we do score late goals so....

Trust the process. 🤯

[macca155]

30 minutes ago, lambtiss said:

It's the not creating any chances when we have so much possession that drives me nuts. Martin seems happy that endless possession means that we are controlling the game but if matters nowt if you are not creating chances. That's three games in a row where we go 1-0 up and then sit back and concede. Two late goals have saved us from 2 points out of 9.

This with knobs on. Sulemana creates chances with ease but there is no one there to put them away. Suleman's pace means he crosses the ball right on the line so it is never going to be inch perfect. Someone should be on the far side (probably unmarked) to finish the job.

However I don't think Saints sit back they just wilt under physical pressure. As I said earlier teams can sustain that for 10 to 15 minutes max, we saw that when Ralph was in charge. Canny opposition managers pull out all the frustrating tactics to break the rhythm of that press. Injuries, arguments, time wasting, and fouls. Remember when Newcastle were absolutely under the cosh at St Mary's two or three years ago. Eddie Howe employed exactly those tactics and took the wind out of Saints's attack. One player went down with cramp three times, a substitution that never happened, hateful to see but it worked.

The players have to be wise to the fact that at some point the opposition will go for them. In the the good old days someone like Dennis Hollywood would have put Potts two rows back in the stands and picked a fight with Osmajic immediately afterwards. Ref would have blown the pea out of his whistle but job done. Obviously need to be a little more subtle these days but the tactic remains the same.

[notnowcato]

1 minute ago, SambaMaverick said:

Yeah and it's shit.

Completely agree, 11 points from 15, having pushed KWP more forward, unacceptable.

[Whitey Grandad]

27 minutes ago, macca155 said:

Why? Stephen's is a solid player and will add a physical presence. I really don't understand the agenda against him. Saints are a better team when he is playing.

He makes too many mistakes.

[tdmickey3]

28 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

Mocking a fan who’s made the effort to go to an away game up north, when all you do is lurk on a football forum clicking the laugh emoji. Top work.

Not really mocking just pointing out acceptance,guess you are the same 

You need to understand that lots of us want our club to strive for better but if you and the other easily pleased want to clap like trained seals then crack on

Cant post more than 3 a day so you will have to put up with my emoji reactions or ignore me

Edited 26 October, 2023 by tdmickey3

[Miltonaggro]

12 hours ago, CB Fry said:

I can't wait to see this team when they have completed all of their learning of the system. It's going to be immense 🤩😍🤩😍

By 2026 the scar tissue will be but a reminder of adventures past.

[gio1saints]

Dont like personal stuff but I think that’s about the most positive thing I’ve ever heard you write TDmickey.
 

You cannot help but belittle fellow saints fans I guess. We are not clapping seals for you to pour your scorn over neither are we satisfied with not winning and gullible easily pleased.
 

You too often equate fair minded saints people who do not share your opinions with scum and it oozes out of virtually every emoji or abusive comment you make. 
 

Just try to think back last time we went five unbeaten. And enjoy it. Life is short and I do t know for sure I will ever see that again. So try to resist putting us down. Please. 

[Convict Colony]

1 hour ago, macca155 said:

I'm having to deal with my expectations and sense of entitlement. I thought it would be easier than this. I suspect others are too.

The cold hard truth is that the squad has significant gaps, and are simply not coping with  the physical aspect of this league. I remain unconvinced by Martin's strategy but it isn't a disaster yet, so give it time.

Leicester were always going to walk this league, so forget them. Ipswich are doing well but hopefully they'll lose momentum. Saints sit 5th in the hunt for a play off position. No good whining about it, just need to stay in the battle. A win Saturday means 7 points out of 9, a good return for this week.

Positives. Bree did well, looked quicker and more physical than Manning. Downes is starting to look an excellent buy.

Definitely need Stephen's back, this team simply cannot cope when under a sustained physical pressure. Other teams can only do that for short periods, but they know Saints fold so it is an obvious tactic.

A lot depends on Stewart finding form, and SR buying in a couple of physical players in January. A defensive midfielder is an absolute must.

Edited 26 October, 2023 by Convict Colony

[SambaMaverick]

29 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Completely agree, 11 points from 15, having pushed KWP more forward, unacceptable.

We going up then mate?

[Elmore Saint]

11 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

Oh and please save me from that god-awful co-commentator, nothing to do with being female, but she just didn't know when to stop talking, why do these people think they have a right to talk and talk and talk, and in such a dull monotonous voice as well.

Actually Vectis, I thought she read it and called it for what it was. 

She called out the ponderous possession based crap early on for what it was and how we were/did get punished. Additionally, she made a comment indicating the fan disquiet about the tactical approach and "style". Almost as if she has had a good look over this forum....

[notnowcato]

6 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

We going up then mate?

I'd like to think so, play offs more likely than automatic.  There's a long way to go, the team are showing some strength, we've played most of the top 10 teams - only Cardiff and West Brom to complete the set.  Looking forward to seeing Ross Stewart in our red and white. 

[gio1saints]

Pre season Bet365 had us at 1/1 to make top six. I took £20 on that. 
 

Few points: 

1. According to FACTS ie points and results we are currently a top six team. 

2. According to OPINION we should be up there with LCFC top of this league 

3. OPINIONS are often translated here into beliefs. And many of those forum beliefs have become entrenched. 
 

4. The biggest now semi/permanent belief-that’s-not-a-fact-just-an-opinion is this God given right to automatic promotion. 
5. Along with this is our players are too good for this league/ too good for this manager belief. We were not too good for the EPL . We will find our position in the Championship. But starting from the premise of humility not the incredible arrogance displayed. 

Last time in this league we our players and manager were NOT saddled with the insufferable entitlement of expecting to win the league. Carrying that around every match is like sandbags on everyone. For goodness sake unload them and let us support freely and enjoy a last minute equaliser. Let the players enjoy it too. Stop burdening them with these misguided expectations. It kills performance at any level. 
 

 

[St Louis]

46 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Completely agree, 11 points from 15, having pushed KWP more forward, unacceptable.

16 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

We going up then mate?

Who knows... but if we carried on at that rate we would have 93 points, so you would think so.

[SambaMaverick]

5 minutes ago, St Louis said:

Who knows... but if we carried on at that rate we would have 93 points, so you would think so.

And if you watch the games... how many points do you reckon we'll end up on?

[notnowcato]

11 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

And if you watch the games... how many points do you reckon we'll end up on?

What do you think SM?

[SambaMaverick]

6th at best and we'll get turned over in the semis regardless. AKA not good enough 

Edited 26 October, 2023 by SambaMaverick

[St Louis]

24 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

And if you watch the games... how many points do you reckon we'll end up on?

Absolutely no idea at this point. Its been so up and down, and I dont know which direction we will go next. But personally I cant find too much to complain about (with the results) in the last 5 games, and if we win this Saturday (which I think we will) then 4 wins and 2 draws in the last 6 games is more than decent.

I'm not overly happy with how its gone so far, and I did expect us to be doing better, but I've felt a lot more optimistic over the last 5 games than I did the previous 5! This is such a tough league (I know Leicester are an anomaly right now). Even last night you had Rotherham (apparently dreadful) beating last years Playoff Finalists 2-0, and Leeds losing to Stoke (who we beat 3 weeks ago). 

I just dont feel the doom and gloom right now that many others do. I was happy to take a point last night before it started (and even more happy with the point given the way the game went), and get to rest a few for Saturday, and I'd still take that.

[gio1saints]

I was pretty tired of us having to set up to scrape an away draw at any top ten side . Ditto playing at home to a top six. Ditton being hopelessly outplayed at home most games. Tired of Putting everyone behind the ball scrap for your lives hope to get a lucky goal ( like Rotherham).
It’s no way to live frankly and definitely not enjoyable to watch. We were just treading water in the EPL before the inevitable. 
Given we played not good yesterday but took a point and had the ball 71% away from home I’d rather we played like us than played like PNE, I’d rather we played like us than like Rotherham. It’s become a recognisable style but it has also got tweaks. Much better than before. For me anyway. Bad performance but a good point. Used to be a sign of a good team doing that away with 5 changes - we ARE a good team. Move on.