Liverpool 2-1 Saints - Match Thread

[saintstowin]

Deserved at least pens. Very happy we didn't let up in the second half. 

Lots of good contributions. All the CBs played well. Downes bounced back. Armstrong showed his experience. Jander played well and tried to intercept with energy.

Disappointed we couldn't get Robinson on the ball more. 

I don't want to hammer Downs but unfortunately every single thing he did was unsuccessful, to put it kindly.

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, Saint NL said:

Still says he's learned nothing tonight and we shot ourselves in the foot.

Right miserable bollox he is

Oh dear. I hope he doesn't mean he's not going to make the changes that need to happen on Saturday.

[Monk]

Trying not to let my frustration of Macca's mistake (another) and anger towards Damion Downs impact this reflection. 

It was a very good performance... I really liked Jelert and there seemed to be an increased intensity to second and third man runs beyond the ball. 

Not sure if anyone else agrees but slightly concerned at the potential impact of dropping Robinson may have on his game short term. 

Good effort and unfortunate to lose. 

Hugo Ekitike clearly rattled by the Isak arrival with that celebration. 

 

Edited Tuesday at 21:15 by Monk

[Saint NL]

Just now, Harry_SFC said:

Downs who just looked lazy.

You could overlook a lack of technical ability if he was a Shane Long type player, but Downs is a poor player and lazy as well. A total non entity.

[captainchris]

12 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

We did ok. What I want most is a complete re-think from Still for the starting 11 on Saturday. If not I think I’ll just fucking give up.

Agree… The starting eleven tonight should start on Saturday, the first half we really did look good…. 

[saintant]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Still, post match........

Please with how organised we were but did not deserve anything as we again have given away a stupid goal. We shot ourselves in the foot and meant we were chasing the game. It was really frustrating, but we did see lots of good things, and we will keep hammering it, but sums up the season so far.

A very honest appraisal and he is clearly as frustrated as we are by the cheap goals we continually give away and is right to call it out.

[macca155]

Just now, saintant said:

So presumably you'd keep Capt Jack in? Astonishing.

Depends on the formation. Edwards wasn't convincing and Stephens has been the least bad of our defenders.

However I wouldn't be in the least bit bothered if he was dropped for Quarshie. I just not so sure that's as clear cut.

I doubt Still will want to make that many changes anyway.

[Costa del Solent]

Not a lot to be added outside of what’s been said:

Woods has not done a lot wrong in a saints shirt and should be in at CB on Saturday

Quarshie a solid showing

Charles is a class act. Only getting better 

Arma worked hard and looked lively

Our goalkeepers love giving goals away

D.Downs is, on the evidence I have seen, stealing a living as a football player. His touch, his reading of the game absolutely shocking. Simply stunned that this was the result of scouting 

[dsrdorset]

Much better performance, a bit unlucky in the end. 

 

I can't think of seeing a worse player in a Saints shirt than Downs. It's quite staggering how utterly crap he is. Can't control the ball, can't pass, doesn't move, looks completely out of place on a football pitch. Massive questions for the manager in bringing him on, utterly clueless. 

 

Onto Saturday....

[Forester]

Great effort.  Thought the whole starting 11 did us proud with just one minute of madness.  That is difference at top level.  XG showed nothing in it and we had more shots.

Biggest positive among many for me was Jelert.  To come in for your first start for the club at Anfield and play that well was seriously impressive.  He looks a much more talented player than Roeslev to me.

[hypochondriac]

If any of Bazunu and Stephens -maybe THB - are in the starting 11 on Saturday then Still deserves to lose his job for that alone.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Surprised there’s not more plaudits for Jander - he was bossing midfield and we looked weaker when he went off. Think that’s a team make-up thing rather than one individual being lots better than another.

[ErwinK1961]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

Yep. He really surprised me. There were loads of positives to take from that, but he looked and sounded utterly forlorn. I'm not sure what message the players will got from that, or from him. 

Cynic in me wonders if he’s playing down the performance so the usual suspects can all come back in on Saturday.

[Saint_lambden]

6 minutes ago, Saint NL said:

Still says he's learned nothing tonight and we shot ourselves in the foot.

Right miserable bollox he is

Well he's right. Played well but missed a sitter to go 1-0 up, gifted it to them 30 seconds later and then switch off for their second goal. 

[Zorba]

Not unhappy with that. Some good individual performances and a much better team effort.

McCarthy dropped a right bollock but otherwise had a good game.

Our strikers are abysmal. AA being the best of a very bad bunch. We need a talisman up front.

May have been Liverpool reserves but I’d go again with that team at the weekend.

Best we’ve played in a very long time.

[ErwinK1961]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

If any of Bazunu and Stephens -maybe THB - are in the starting 11 on Saturday then Still deserves to lose his job for that alone.

THB has been much worse than Stephens.

Neither of our Goalkeepers are any good.

[saintstowin]

Did Will Still miss the motivation module at coaching school? Crikey.

[Wade Garrett]

2 minutes ago, macca155 said:

Depends on the formation. Edwards wasn't convincing and Stephens has been the least bad of our defenders.

However I wouldn't be in the least bit bothered if he was dropped for Quarshie. I just not so sure that's as clear cut.

I doubt Still will want to make that many changes anyway.

Edwards did nothing wrong and was pretty decent on the ball.  I would play him in front of Stephens all day long.

[notnowcato]

8 minutes ago, Saint NL said:

Still says he's learned nothing tonight and we shot ourselves in the foot.

Right miserable bollox he is

If he’s learned nothing from this evening then he should walk. What a bell. 

[S-Clarke]

I never expected the thrashing most predicted, as these games never go like that. Lower league side to PL side - lots of huff and puff, good moments, but ultimate defeat. It's pretty much the nailed script, so no surprise. It played exactly as I thought it would in that sense.

Did we play OK? Yes, I thought we saw more today than we have seen in previous, especially the first half with the intent to press and press quickly. We moved the ball quicker on the transition which is what made us look dangerous, but ultimately it's the quality in both boxes which will make or break it.

Their first goal was everything really. Poor up top, should have scored. Poor at the back by arseing with the ball, almost immediately after the miss.

The second half, in my eyes, wasn't as 'good' from an intent point of view. I thought Liverpool had more of that 2nd half, especially once Downs came on and Jander went off - I thought Jander was really key to the press in the first half, and him and Downes worked really well together. 

I'm still not convinced that Downes and Charles can play together, it just doesn't look right to me. Charles scored a good goal, but when those two play together it just feels like the midfield has no control.

Still early days for Downs obviously, but we lost all attacking control when he was on the pitch. Nothing stuck. His touch was out of this world, in a bad way. You have to hope and assume it will get better, but it was a risk (as was said) to buy a gamble striker when we didn't really have reliable ones as it was.

The pluses for me though were Jander, I hope it's just a tweak. I like Jelert, happy to get up and down and was defensively sound I thought. The centre backs were good, Wood especially for me. McCarthy, bar the thing he really shouldn't do (play Russball) did a good job. The goal kind of summed up why I think a lot of our players are thick as fuck, because he did exactly the same play at Newcastle at the start of the PL season last year - same result. Weird stuff.

Overall it means nothing if we don't take this into the league. There were things to take away, but also stuff not to get carried away with as it was a really shoddy Liverpool setup in the main, but we gave a better account than we did under Martin in the FA Cup for sure.

Boro will be a tougher test at the weekend.

Edited Tuesday at 21:15 by S-Clarke

[macca155]

Just now, ErwinK1961 said:

Cynic in me wonders if he’s playing down the performance so the usual suspects can all come back in on Saturday.

Well if he does that he's an idiot. THB has to be dropped, strong case for Stephens and Baz as well. Doubt he'll change all three though.

[saintant]

3 minutes ago, maysie said:

I don't think Stephens has been that bad to be honest, but yes THB for one of the others.

Do we stick with 3 at the back? Seems to me the patterns of play are better with it.

Stephens is hopeless - people just don't watch him closely enough and he is stealing a living. All 3 centre backs tonight were superior to him and Liverpool would have found it far easier if he'd been playing. Don't get why people want him in the side on Saturday but it's all about opinions I guess and Will Still will likely stick with his captain.

[hypochondriac]

12 minutes ago, 23rdSaint said:

"Today's starting lineup on Saturday" would've saved you some typing there.

And Fraser's been our best player of the season...

It wasn't our starting lineup .

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

THB has been much worse than Stephens.

Neither of our Goalkeepers are any good.

I don't want either THB or Stephens in the starting 11. I don't want either keeper really but that's the choice we have given we never bothered to sign a good one in the summer for some reason. The choice is between the two and McCarthy is clearly better despite his deficiencies.

[macca155]

1 minute ago, Wade Garrett said:

Edwards did nothing wrong and was pretty decent on the ball.  I would play him in front of Stephens all day long.

Sorry don't agree he was chasing the game in the first half. He definitely benefitted from an excellent Jelart and Wood either side of him. Looked the weakest of the three CB to me.

Happy to be proved wrong though, I really want him to succeed. The sooner we banish the old guard the better.

[maysie]

8 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Oh dear. I hope he doesn't mean he's not going to make the changes that need to happen on Saturday.

I read it as total frustration at the first goal. He's obviously telling the players to stop taking stupid risks but they aren't listening or it is muscle memory from Martin that needs to be forgotten.

[tdmickey3]

5 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

THB has been much worse than Stephens.

Neither of our Goalkeepers are any good.

If Bazunu plays we lose 4-1

Macarthy is better

[captainchris]

7 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Edwards did nothing wrong and was pretty decent on the ball.  I would play him in front of Stephens all day long.

Definitely… Keep the team that started…

[Chez]

Armstrong looked good to me. It's a shame Fellows also looks good on that right side, but it would be very harsh to not start him in the next game. Glad Quarshie looked solid. He needs to come in too.

[notnowcato]

3 minutes ago, maysie said:

I read it as total frustration at the first goal. He's obviously telling the players to stop taking stupid risks but they aren't listening or it is muscle memory from Martin that needs to be forgotten.

Fairly certain that when Alex came in towards the end of our promotion season he was told to get it forward, don’t Jeff about with it. 

[davefizzy14]

A real good performance from us tonight, we can take a few positives into Saturday now. Flynn was tremendous tonight, absolutely everywhere. Shea very good and a tidy finish too. Jander quality. McCarthy, the three cbs, Jelert and Manning all solid. Archer, Armstrong and Scienza were all creating opportunities and pressing all the time. Really thought Leo had scored from the rebound from Arma's shot off the crossbar. Plenty for Will Still to be pleased about. 

Edited Tuesday at 21:47 by davefizzy14

[egg]

10 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

THB has been much worse than Stephens.

Neither of our Goalkeepers are any good.

I'm not sure that McCarthy earned a league recall from that performance. 

If only one of THB or Stephens gets the chop, it must be THB. 

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

Armstrong looked good to me. It's a shame Fellows also looks good on that right side, but it would be very harsh to not start him in the next game. Glad Quarshie looked solid. He needs to come in too.

I think Armstrong starts for now, he injects that little bit of life into the attack - movement, jinking runs etc. He's not the best player by any means, but I think he offers us more right now in that role.

[Lord Duckhunter]

6 minutes ago, saintant said:

Stephens is hopeless - people just don't watch him closely enough and he is stealing a living.

How many managers have picked him, I guess they aren’t as knowledgeable as you. Perhaps managers who watch every game, then watch videos of every game, then watch every player in training day in day out, just don’t “watch him closely enough”…..

[macca155]

4 minutes ago, saintant said:

Will Still will likely stick with his captain.

Stephens isn't hopeless but a team with our ambitions needs better in defence., way better. Jack is holding his place because Edwards has looked iffy, Quarshie is raw and THB has forgotten how to play.

We all hope that Stephens will revert to back up as the others find their feet.

The real scandal is why the hell Wood has been overlooked. 

[tdmickey3]

Just now, egg said:

I'm not sure that McCarthy earned a league recall from that performance. 

If only one of THB or Stephens gets the chop, it must be THB. 

What!

He made 2 top saves that Baz doesn’t get anywhere near 

[RedArmy]

2 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Fairly certain that when Alex came in towards the end of our promotion season he was told to get it forward, don’t Jeff about with it. 

Yep not sure why Martin is getting the blame for what McCarthy did. He never played like that under Martin. 

[NewYorkSaint]

It just feels nice to actually be proud of the team again....

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

I'm not sure that McCarthy earned a league recall from that performance. 

If only one of THB or Stephens gets the chop, it must be THB. 

I think the choice is this -

GK who cannot play with the ball at his feet

or GK who cannot use his hands or make saves.

I'll take the risk on number 1 tbh.

[saintant]

Just now, Lord Duckhunter said:

How many managers have picked him, I guess they aren’t as knowledgeable as you. Perhaps managers who watch every game, then watch videos of every game, then watch every player in training day in day out, just don’t “watch him closely enough”…..

Ok fair enough, you want to keep playing him and agree with manager's picking him. What I see time and time again is a liability. Couldn't give a monkeys what our managers see in him.

[captainchris]

Just now, egg said:

I'm not sure that McCarthy earned a league recall from that performance. 

If only one of THB or Stephens gets the chop, it must be THB. 

Mccarthy played very well indeed, yes he made a mistake but with Bazuno…We would have lost badly… 

[Chez]

Just now, captainchris said:

Definitely… Keep the team that started…

it will be very interesting to see who Still selects. When you spend a shed load on someone like Azaz, the pressure will be on to pick him, but with lots of options, tough decisions have to be made to find a winning format. 

[The Kraken]

2 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

Yep not sure why Martin is getting the blame for what McCarthy did. He never played like that under Martin. 

Except for the exact replica goal against Newcastle on opening day.

[LGTL]

Selection on Saturday will tell us a lot about Still. 

Trying not to be too miserable as I thought it was better. But fuck me, Damion Downs. What an awful footballer he is. 

[RedArmy]

Just now, The Kraken said:

Except for the exact replica goal against Newcastle on opening day.

Yeah except for that one. 

Edited Tuesday at 21:29 by RedArmy

[trousers]

22 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Surprised there’s not more plaudits for Jander

There were quite a few people bigging him up in the Smallbone thread to be fair

[LegalEagle]

23 minutes ago, Forester said:

Great effort.  Thought the whole starting 11 did us proud with just one minute of madness.  That is difference at top level.  XG showed nothing in it and we had more shots.

Biggest positive among many for me was Jelert.  To come in for your first start for the club at Anfield and play that well was seriously impressive.  He looks a much more talented player than Roeslev to me.

Spot on. Jelert was my Saints player of the night closely followed by Wood and Arma.

[trousers]

20 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

If he’s learned nothing from this evening then he should walk. What a bell. 

 ☝🏻This 

[trousers]

22 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Edwards did nothing wrong and was pretty decent on the ball.  I would play him in front of Stephens all day long.

☝🏻This

[saintant]

15 minutes ago, egg said:

I'm not sure that McCarthy earned a league recall from that performance. 

If only one of THB or Stephens gets the chop, it must be THB. 

He made a couple of very good saves that would likely have beaten Bazunu.

Edited Tuesday at 21:39 by saintant