Was it right to give Tonda the job?

[Roger]

Yes or no? 

[S-Clarke]

Absolutely not, we should have thanked him for steadying the ship and getting us some results up to that International Break.

We should have used that International Break to find a proven manager with a track record in this division and country, and moved Tonda back to the U21's - or if the new manager and he fancied it, give him a shot as a first team coach under the new manager.

That's what should have happened. That's what any sane football club would have done. But we didn't, and now we've wrapped ourselves up in knots once again by trying to be revolutionary when it wasn't needed.

[Mboto Gorge]

Is any decision this lot make correct? The amount of decisions they’ve got wrong as owners of this club is incredible and unprecedented. There is serious danger we will be in league one in 2-3 years unless they can be forced out somehow, which I sadly can’t see how that happens. 
Re Tonda - didn’t Spors say to a fans group that they “had no intention of appointing Eckert full time” - well that shows that he’s happy to outright lie to the supporters for a start. I was told by someone who works at the club that he wanted to appoint him from the off, and I said as much here several times.

[stknowle]

Not even a debate. No.

[S-Clarke]

4 minutes ago, Mboto Gorge said:

Is any decision this lot make correct? The amount of decisions they’ve got wrong as owners of this club is incredible and unprecedented. There is serious danger we will be in league one in 2-3 years unless they can be forced out somehow, which I sadly can’t see how that happens. 
Re Tonda - didn’t Spors say to a fans group that they “had no intention of appointing Eckert full time” - well that shows that he’s happy to outright lie to the supporters for a start. I was told by someone who works at the club that he wanted to appoint him from the off, and I said as much here several times.

It was pretty obvious to me as soon as he was put in, he got that win against QPR (which was utter shite btw) and Spors was down on the pitch hugging him. 

Then you had all the puff pieces from the players blowing smoke up his arse, he's made it so easy for us, so clear etc etc. 

The club were desperate to give him the job the moment he was made interim, I doubt they even considered any other name.

[pimpin4rizeal]

Our fan base in general was as naive as the board. Well too late now you got what you wanted 

[Willo of Whiteley]

This is probably the firmest no I’ve seen in any poll in recent years

[Badger]

I don’t think they could not give him the job on back of the results he’d had.

If you asked me on Day One when Still went, then Tonda wouldn’t match the profile of manager I hoped they were looking for. We needed an experienced manager (despite some on here dismissing it). Perhaps O’Neil was the one they wanted but put off by the supporter reaction. God knows who else they might have spoken to, and who might have been realistically interested. 

[Saint NL]

Which numbnut said Yes?

[SNSUN]

SR seem to have a real hard on for Germany right now. Downs, Quarshie, Scienza, Tonda, Peretz all recruited in recent months either German or from German Leagues. Only one of those has really been a hit so far. (Harsh on Peretz but hes a TBC.) I'm not saying they went for Tonda because he's German but it probably isn't totally a coincidence. 

The Tonda run of wins was refreshing but the players coming out from the shackles of the Still regime probably just enjoyed having freedom to play a bit at the time. Since then we've had odd substitutions, stubborn tactics that seem wedded to not touching the 3 CBs and today's disjointed line up. As I said earlier, it's not Tonda's fault, it's SRs. 

[Willo of Whiteley]

I’d love to know who the “one” is that voted yes. 😂

[Sheaf Saint]

It was so obvious after getting those 4 consecutive wins that they would give it to him. I would say "in hindsight" it was probably the worst thing that could have happened, but hindsight wasn't needed because it was clear at the time that appointing him would be just another pointless gamble to add to the ever-growing collection. 

[woodsaint1]

Based on his results as interim boss and the fact we failed to identify and appoint our number 1 or even number 2 choice candidates - yes

Based on his non-existent managerial experience, never mind overseeing a basket case club like ourselves - definitely not

Like other posters have suggested, I genuinely believe the club wanted GO'N but were forced to back out of appointing him. We then drifted hoping that a good candidate would present themselves, but in the end TEs results gave Spors an easy way out

[Badger]

30 minutes ago, Saint NL said:

Which numbnut said Yes?

Add me to the numbnuts club as well then.

You can only answer this as you would have done end of November/early December, it’s easy to give a different answer with the benefit of hindsight. I was quite clear on my view of Still’s appointment from the outset, so I’ll put my head above the parapet here.

As I’ve said elsewhere I don’t think the club could not appoint him after the run of results. Perhaps an extended interim period, but these things seldom drag and at least it wasn’t after a single game as they did for Selles. Why it has gone tits up since is another debate.

Would Tonda have been my preferred choice the day after Still was dumped, no. But it did seem he’d changed things over a few weeks. 

[Badger]

8 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

Based on his results as interim boss and the fact we failed to identify and appoint our number 1 or even number 2 choice candidates - yes

Based on his non-existent managerial experience, never mind overseeing a basket case club like ourselves - definitely not

Like other posters have suggested, I genuinely believe the club wanted GO'N but were forced to back out of appointing him. We then drifted hoping that a good candidate would present themselves, but in the end TEs results gave Spors an easy way out

I think this is reasonably plausible about O’Neil. 
 

The only other name linked from someone was Rodgers, but if he did speak with Saints then a) he probably wanted a Kings Ransome of a salary, b)he wouldn’t accept any interference from above, c) his and Rasmus’ egos would never both fit into Staplewood 

Edited 6 hours ago by Badger

[Football Special]

28 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

SR seem to have a real hard on for Germany right now. Downs, Quarshie, Scienza, Tonda, Peretz all recruited in recent months either German or from German Leagues. Only one of those has really been a hit so far. (Harsh on Peretz but hes a TBC.) I'm not saying they went for Tonda because he's German but it probably isn't totally a coincidence. 

The Tonda run of wins was refreshing but the players coming out from the shackles of the Still regime probably just enjoyed having freedom to play a bit at the time. Since then we've had odd substitutions, stubborn tactics that seem wedded to not touching the 3 CBs and today's disjointed line up. As I said earlier, it's not Tonda's fault, it's SRs. 

Spors still lives in Germany doesn’t he , explains that approach 

[Football Special]

4 minutes ago, Badger said:

Add me to the numbnuts club as well then.

You can only answer this as you would have done end of November/early December, it’s easy to give a different answer with the benefit of hindsight. I was quite clear on my view of Still’s appointment from the outset, so I’ll put my head above the parapet here.

As I’ve said elsewhere I don’t think the club could not appoint him after the run of results. Perhaps an extended interim period, but these things seldom drag and at least it wasn’t after a single game as they did for Selles. Why it has gone tits up since is another debate.

Would Tonda have been my preferred choice the day after Still was dumped, no. But it did seem he’d changed things over a few weeks. 

My argument at the time with those who said he had to be given the job after 4 wins was would they also call for his head after 4 defeats to be consistent?

[The Kraken]

5 minutes ago, Badger said:

Add me to the numbnuts club as well then.

You can only answer this as you would have done end of November/early December, it’s easy to give a different answer with the benefit of hindsight. I was quite clear on my view of Still’s appointment from the outset, so I’ll put my head above the parapet here.

As I’ve said elsewhere I don’t think the club could not appoint him after the run of results. Perhaps an extended interim period, but these things seldom drag and at least it wasn’t after a single game as they did for Selles. Why it has gone tits up since is another debate.

Would Tonda have been my preferred choice the day after Still was dumped, no. But it did seem he’d changed things over a few weeks. 

This is reasonable.

With hindsight, you get the poll result we see now, and rightly so. Back when he was appointed, while it wasn’t an inspiring appointment, it kind of made a bit of sense, at least to give the team some short term stability and let him see out the season. We had seen an uptick in performance and results, like you say it became difficult for them not to appoint him. That said, I remain convinced (as I was very early on) that he was the number one candidate from the beginning.

[Badger]

6 minutes ago, Football Special said:

My argument at the time with those who said he had to be given the job after 4 wins was would they also call for his head after 4 defeats to be consistent?

Fair point. But that would be the same for any new appointment, had Carrick come in and lost the first four would that have been the case ? Had it been Gary O’Neil it might have been cranked up a bit more as well. 

How many games did we go without a win after Burley arrived ? 

[Farmer Saint]

Nope, as I said I wanted to see him given an extended run as caretaker.

[Football Special]

3 minutes ago, Badger said:

Fair point. But that would be the same for any new appointment, had Carrick come in and lost the first four would that have been the case ? Had it been Gary O’Neil it might have been cranked up a bit more as well. 

How many games did we go without a win after Burley arrived ? 

It was to soon to jump to conclusions over a 32 year old with no experience 

[Lighthouse]

I think a lot of people, myself included, were generally supportive and cautiously optimistic when he was appointed. It’s very easy to say that we should have gone for a more experienced option but Tonda had experience of this squad and got some cracking results out of them. The momentum was very much with him and we don’t know how any of the other possible candidates would have done. We could be sat here now, no better off and saying, "why didn’t we give the bloke who won four out of five a proper go FFS!"

[hypochondriac]

Tonda has such low standards. Today was awful and he never says he's too unhappy. The players must love getting an easy ride. I didn't see how we couldn't have given it to him at the time given how good our form was but sadly it's fallen off a cliff and doesn't look like returning.

[AlexLaw76]

It'll be Rob Edwards as manager come next season. You wait.

[saintant]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

It was pretty obvious to me as soon as he was put in, he got that win against QPR (which was utter shite btw) and Spors was down on the pitch hugging him. 

Then you had all the puff pieces from the players blowing smoke up his arse, he's made it so easy for us, so clear etc etc. 

The club were desperate to give him the job the moment he was made interim, I doubt they even considered any other name.

Presumably he is no longer getting clear messages across to the players - or are they ignoring him now.

[AlexLaw76]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

It was pretty obvious to me as soon as he was put in, he got that win against QPR (which was utter shite btw) and Spors was down on the pitch hugging him. 

Then you had all the puff pieces from the players blowing smoke up his arse, he's made it so easy for us, so clear etc etc. 

The club were desperate to give him the job the moment he was made interim, I doubt they even considered any other name.

The club were desperate to give the. job to TE the moment Will Still was removed. It was probably all but decided at the time.

As soon as Romeu (as predicted) did his puff piece, it was nailed-on

[saintant]

1 hour ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Our fan base in general was as naive as the board. Well too late now you got what you wanted 

Wow, it's our fault 🙂

[Appy]

Not a single club in the league would even consider giving him their job, except for us. 
 

 

[Roo1976]

1 hour ago, SNSUN said:

SR seem to have a real hard on for Germany right now. Downs, Quarshie, Scienza, Tonda, Peretz all recruited in recent months either German or from German Leagues. Only one of those has really been a hit so far. (Harsh on Peretz but hes a TBC.) I'm not saying they went for Tonda because he's German but it probably isn't totally a coincidence. 

The Tonda run of wins was refreshing but the players coming out from the shackles of the Still regime probably just enjoyed having freedom to play a bit at the time. Since then we've had odd substitutions, stubborn tactics that seem wedded to not touching the 3 CBs and today's disjointed line up. As I said earlier, it's not Tonda's fault, it's SRs. 

why is it not his fault?,he picks the fucking team and suggests the tactic?.....................

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Saint NL said:

Which numbnut said Yes?

Tonda

[saintant]

39 minutes ago, Badger said:

Add me to the numbnuts club as well then.

You can only answer this as you would have done end of November/early December, it’s easy to give a different answer with the benefit of hindsight. I was quite clear on my view of Still’s appointment from the outset, so I’ll put my head above the parapet here.

As I’ve said elsewhere I don’t think the club could not appoint him after the run of results. Perhaps an extended interim period, but these things seldom drag and at least it wasn’t after a single game as they did for Selles. Why it has gone tits up since is another debate.

Would Tonda have been my preferred choice the day after Still was dumped, no. But it did seem he’d changed things over a few weeks. 

It's not hindsight. The question is 'was it right to give Tonda the job?' I said yes at the time but he's forced me to change my mind now thanks to his inability to show any ability to adapt the side and change formations.

[sockeye]

It wasn't. Experience should count for something but as soon as that run got going it was clear SR would just give him the job. I think most of us were caught up with emotion (myself included, even calling myself a moron sarcastically for decrying him from the start) at finally being able to see some wins but the signs of being shaky were there. Once teams figured out how to neutralise us we've kind of reverted to type.

After the Still debacle, and now this, I think it's clear we need a well-weathered manager, a veteran of the league. Though there seems to be this loser culture lingering within the squad. It's hard to put into words and quantify properly, and I can't lay down stats that could win people to my side on this, but our group seem to give up so quickly once plan A doesn't work. Even Scienza has faded in recent weeks. People tend to become, after all, the average of the people you spend the most time with.

[Gloucester Saint]

Not trying to defend Tonda, but I do wonder if some of the issues Maresca seemed to face at Chelsea are similar to SFC and SR? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cj0n8d913d8o

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Gloucester Saint said:

Not trying to defend Tonda, but I do wonder if some of the issues Maresca seemed to face at Chelsea are similar to SFC and SR? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cj0n8d913d8o

Also read that Maresca has been openly talking to City about opportunities to replace Guardiola, and he was warned by Chelsea twice.

[Gloucester Saint]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

Also read that Maresca has been openly talking to City about opportunities to replace Guardiola, and he was warned by Chelsea twice.

Quite a scathing leak that he was emotionally immature. 

[The Wyvern]

I hold my hands up, I was happy with Eckert when he was made permanent, I thought we might have uncovered a really bright up-and-coming young manager. Hindsight suggests that was wrong and we continue to regress.

All that said, our problems clearly run far deeper than whoever is currently in-charge of the first team day-to-day.

[Football Special]

4 minutes ago, The Wyvern said:

I hold my hands up, I was happy with Eckert when he was made permanent, I thought we might have uncovered a really bright up-and-coming young manager. Hindsight suggests that was wrong and we continue to regress.

All that said, our problems clearly run far deeper than whoever is currently in-charge of the first team day-to-day.

It was nice to dream briefly. 
 

I have found it odd where Still’s coaching staff left and his “experienced” assistant in Trollope , we’ve basically been left with people filling in from u21s , no news on building a team?

[Willo of Whiteley]

41 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Not trying to defend Tonda, but I do wonder if some of the issues Maresca seemed to face at Chelsea are similar to SFC and SR? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cj0n8d913d8o

100%

I wasn’t convinced at first but I am even more so now.

Will Still always said he preferred four at the back and yet never did, even when we signed the players.

Now Tonda Eckhart is wedded to this same thing but with more sideways passing.

[die Mannyschaft]

Yes initially as we were without doubt the worst team in championship and playing unbelievable relegation football. It looked the correct decision but now it back to relegation keep ball and draw at all costs.

Maybe the mobile analysis manager app is still picking the teams and got data corruption on possession football.  

How many more managers will we appoint playing negative keep ball ?

[tdmickey3]

No, would be ok under an experienced manager.

But not they way these clowns operate 

[die Mannyschaft]

1 hour ago, Roo1976 said:

why is it not his fault?,he picks the fucking team and suggests the tactic?.....................

Tonda is definitely at the wheel but he's driving an automatic. Surely he cant be selecting the team, deciding on subs and that today's tactic is a way to win a game. 

[bugenhagen]

1 hour ago, die Mannyschaft said:

Tonda is definitely at the wheel but he's driving an automatic. Surely he cant be selecting the team, deciding on subs and that today's tactic is a way to win a game. 

He is head coach, so he is in charge of the other coaches, and training, the rest is by commitee.

[Toussaint]

3 hours ago, The Kraken said:

This is reasonable.

With hindsight, you get the poll result we see now, and rightly so. Back when he was appointed, while it wasn’t an inspiring appointment, it kind of made a bit of sense, at least to give the team some short term stability and let him see out the season. We had seen an uptick in performance and results, like you say it became difficult for them not to appoint him. That said, I remain convinced (as I was very early on) that he was the number one candidate from the beginning.

If you’d had a poll back then it would have been - yes / no / don’t know-, pretty sure don’t know would have been the runaway winner. 

[Rivers]

2 hours ago, sockeye said:

Experience should count for something but as soon as that run got going it was clear SR would just give him the job. I think most of us were caught up with emotion (myself included, even calling myself a moron sarcastically for decrying him from the start) at finally being able to see some wins but the signs of being shaky were there. Once teams figured out how to neutralise us we've kind of reverted to type.

This.

I'm frustrated with myself for being sucked in, again too. I am away from home a lot, and my most recent return, after following much of the first half of the season's abject dross from afar, coincided with getting to see us smash Charlton 5-1 away, comfortably dispatch Leicester 3-0 at home, stuff another three past Birmingham City, and race to yet another 3-0 lead against a usually difficult to breakdown West Brom.

We were suddenly playing scintillating attacking football again after a years-long excitement drought. Quality wingers running defences ragged, midfielders breaking forward at pace and getting on the end of slide-rule through-balls, and actually finding the ability to finish! 

Beautiful, free-flowing football was on display, goals were flying in from everywhere (for us!), and I was amazed to find myself thoroughly enjoying watching Saints again. It was literally fucking years since I last felt genuine excitement about anything connected to our Club. We've been the byword for abject dross and utter incompetence for so long it's like a huge grey cloud of disenchantment hanging over us, weighing us down.

Like almost everyone else at the time, I wanted an experienced, proven (preferably hardline) manager, who would come in and kick the everliving shit out of our bottling underperforming bunch of useless cunts. All my natural instincts were against appointing Tonda permanently at first, but after seeing some of the best football we'd played in years under him, I felt he genuinely deserved at shot, because he had earned the opportunity.

I don't know what he said to the lads at half-time against West Brom -- but even though we held on for the three points -- the joyous bubble effectively burst from that second half on.

This ridiculous adherence to three at the back at all times is utterly killing us. It is sooo clear to pretty much the entire fanbase, that (under numerous managers now) it simply does not work. I'll touch more on why in the topic on it (hopefully tomorrow) when I'm back home again for bit.

Essentially, like a small child on Christmas Eve -- I just wanted to believe someone in Red and White was finally delivering us something nice. I still remember all those years ago, how gutted I was, when [spoiler alert!] I realised that Father Christmas wasn't real. I think it's time to accept with a similar feeling of disappointment, that the glorious Tonda revolution is a busted flush too. 

[Sir Ralph]

Was doing a good job at the time but they should have kept running with him to see where it got to rather than giving him the permanent job then. I think that was the general consensus but obviously SR know best as always

Edited 1 hour ago by Sir Ralph

[Saint Fan CaM]

I posted the below in the match thread, hence the reason I voted ‘yes’. Not because I believe wholeheartedly in Tonda’s ability, but because I truly believe the Manager is not the problem as such…they’re all being forced into constraining the team with the formation/possession philosophy.
 

Two observations watching that debacle…

1. It is as clear as day that SR/Spors are dictating possession based football, with the defensive line involved substantially in any build-up play.

2. The ‘5 at the back’-–is used a consequence of our defenders not being good enough to consistently delivering observation no.1.

A change of Manager will not sort out the above. No self-respecting Manager will work under the conditions offered by SR, hence the ‘yes men’ like RM, Still and Eckhert will continue to struggle. The team bar Manning, Stephens and a missing CF is good enough for a top 6 finish, but that will only happen if SR/Spors take the shackles off.