How long has it been?

[SaintLondon]

I was chatting to a mate over the weekend and we were trying to pinpoint the last time we felt genuinely content with everything at the club. Depressingly, for me it was the 2015/16 season - a decade ago.

Of course, no club is ever on a constant upward trajectory; there are always peaks and troughs. But from my perspective, what we’ve experienced since then feels less like fluctuation and more like a slow decline, as we continue to circle the drain.

You can’t lay every problem at SR’s door, but I do think they represent the single biggest issue we’ve faced over that ten-year period.

No one has asked for my opinion, but I can’t shake the feeling that it’s going to get worse before it gets better.

 

 

[saintant]

For me the last time I felt contented with the club was the morning of the unexpected 4-0 loss to Villa a few years ago. After that we just went into a tail spin and have never recovered.

[Pamplemousse]

The promotion season. I thought we'd turned a corner. How wrong was I

[Turkish]

Probably was back then. The decline started after Koeman left, Puel took a lot of the wrath for it but he got dealt a bad hand and did a very good job in the circumstances, i know some dont agree and will cite boring football etc but they also dont factor in he lost the two highest goalscorers from the previous season, Wanyama who was a key player and the second half of the season lost fonte and Van Dijk, i would question who else could have done  a better job losing probably his 5 best players which were the spine of the team

It's was death by a thousand cuts since then with a few periods of hope, when we went top under Ralph was great but always a false dawn. SR came in and this new dawn has been more of a disaster than any of us could have imagined. What baffles me about the club since 2016 is that despite it being clear that its has been failing for 10 years now, there is an arrogance about it that we do things differently and better than others. 

Edited yesterday at 11:14 by Turkish

[trousers]

As mentioned on another thread, the 4-0 defeat at Villa Park on 4th March 2022 can be traced back as the most recent 'pivot point' in our destiny...

Up until then, things were looking fine.

The defeat came on the back of a run of 10 games where we'd only lost once and we were sitting comfortably in 9th place. 

Our new owners had been in place for 2 months and we were promised significant investment in the squad. At long last, Ralph was going to be given decent funds to improve the squad that he had thus far managed on a shoestring.

Things were looking relatively rosey but, inexplicably, the wheels came off the track that day....

Edited yesterday at 11:18 by trousers

[Saint Mikey]

For me, it's more about expectations.

In the whole time I've supported the club, there have only been a handful of times that have been 'enjoyable'. I was too young to truly appreciate the Lawrie McMenemy years, but these are those moments:

- That attacking Chris Nicholl team, 4-2-4, finishing 7th in 89/90.
- Strachan's team, Cup Final and 8th.
- Rise up the leagues from League 1 and Championship all the way through to Poch and Koeman.
- Some bits of Ralph's stint.

That's it in c.40 years. That bit in the middle was an anomaly really, it's mostly been shit supporting us.

 

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

3 minutes ago, trousers said:

As mentioned on another thread, the 4-0 defeat at Villa Park on 4th March 2022 can be traced back as the most recent 'pivot point' in our destiny...

Up until then, things were looking fine.

The defeat came on the back of a run of 10 games where we'd only lost once and we were sitting comfortably in 9th place. 

Our new owners had been in place for 2 months and we were promised significant investment in the squad. At long last, Ralph was going to be given decent funds to improve the squad that he had thus far managed on a shoestring.

Things were looking relatively rosey but, inexplicably, the wheels came off the track that day....

Yep, i feel that game was the turning point. Something must have happened.

Went to Villa to watch it and thought WTF happened. Thought it may have been a one-off but little did we know what was in store.

[S-Clarke]

I think all clubs go through cycles like this, certainly at our level. We dined at the 'top table' in the European convo for 2 seasons which for us is somewhat unique, so we were performing outside of our norms!

Certainly the last time it felt aligned from the top down to the manager was during those Adkins > Poch > Koeman years, but in the 2nd Koeman year it started to go a bit sour as that alignment started to drift I felt. The club started to get a bit too big for it's boots, thought it had cracked football, took it's foot off the gas and therein lies the drift we see ourselves in today.

What happened then isn't directly correlated to where we are today, as we have gone through 2 entirely different ownership models - but I think it just stresses how important it is to have alignment down from the ownership, management, players and fans - then the whole club pulls through. When that slips, everything erodes and it's not always immediate. Man Utd are a 'larger' example of that.

[M271]

31 minutes ago, trousers said:

As mentioned on another thread, the 4-0 defeat at Villa Park on 4th March 2022 can be traced back as the most recent 'pivot point' in our destiny...

Up until then, things were looking fine.

The defeat came on the back of a run of 10 games where we'd only lost once and we were sitting comfortably in 9th place. 

Our new owners had been in place for 2 months and we were promised significant investment in the squad. At long last, Ralph was going to be given decent funds to improve the squad that he had thus far managed on a shoestring.

Things were looking relatively rosey but, inexplicably, the wheels came off the track that day....

And in November of 2022 we appointed Nathan Jones as manager and Aston Villa got Emery. The clubs have gone in dramatically different directions since then.

[Harry_SFC]

46 minutes ago, trousers said:

As mentioned on another thread, the 4-0 defeat at Villa Park on 4th March 2022 can be traced back as the most recent 'pivot point' in our destiny...

Up until then, things were looking fine.

The defeat came on the back of a run of 10 games where we'd only lost once and we were sitting comfortably in 9th place. 

Our new owners had been in place for 2 months and we were promised significant investment in the squad. At long last, Ralph was going to be given decent funds to improve the squad that he had thus far managed on a shoestring.

Things were looking relatively rosey but, inexplicably, the wheels came off the track that day....

It was that Villa game and the summer transfer window afterwards. Failure to sign a proper striker and lots of wasted funds. That set the precedent unfortunately.

[tdmickey3]

52 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

The promotion season. I thought we'd turned a corner. How wrong was I

Never going to be the case after we kept RM and purchased utter rubbish in transfer market

1 minute ago, Harry_SFC said:

It was that Villa game and the summer transfer window afterwards. Failure to sign a proper striker and lots of wasted funds. That set the precedent unfortunately.

This

[Turkish]

10 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

It was that Villa game and the summer transfer window afterwards. Failure to sign a proper striker and lots of wasted funds. That set the precedent unfortunately.

sounds like every transfer window. We've signed strikers the last 3 summers but none of them done the business for different reasons.

[Willo of Whiteley]

The Ronald Koeman era was the obvious one. What was it - three points off the Champions League places?
Coincidentally that’s when transfer started going wrong too.

 

In recent times, two years ago. Yes we should’ve been a certainty of the autos but I remember going to every game thinking we’ll score at least three or four.
You could ready the game, patterns of play, we had impact subs that would make a difference; and above all we kept going until the final whistle.

Equally I remember us going into the play offs and thinking we would be steady at West Brom and we’d demolish them in the second leg.
The powerful social media content going into those games was some of the best around. A passion, a pride.

Then on the morning of the final I remember turning to my Dad on the way up saying “we’re winning 1-0 today, it’ll be scrappy and backs to the wall, but we’re going up”.
I’ve never felt so confident going into games.

As much as Russell Martin was an absolute chancer and is full of shit, having seen us get a promotion under him and a style of play we and the players would be familiar with, have him over Tonda Eckhart.

[die Mannyschaft]

1 minute ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

The Ronald Koeman era was the obvious one. What was it - three points off the Champions League places?
Coincidentally that’s when transfer started going wrong too.

 

In recent times, two years ago. Yes we should’ve been a certainty of the autos but I remember going to every game thinking we’ll score at least three or four.
You could ready the game, patterns of play, we had impact subs that would make a difference; and above all we kept going until the final whistle.

Equally I remember us going into the play offs and thinking we would be steady at West Brom and we’d demolish them in the second leg.
The powerful social media content going into those games was some of the best around. A passion, a pride.

Then on the morning of the final I remember turning to my Dad on the way up saying “we’re winning 1-0 today, it’ll be scrappy and backs to the wall, but we’re going up”.
I’ve never felt so confident going into games.

As much as Russell Martin was an absolute chancer and is full of shit, having seen us get a promotion under him and a style of play we and the players would be familiar with, have him over Tonda Eckhart.

At least with Russell Martin in championship you knew Saints had a chance of winning any game, getting a last minute 97th winner, scoring more goals than opponents. And games were far more exciting like the Huddersfield home game 2 down then win 5-2.

[LuckyNumber7]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

As mentioned on another thread, the 4-0 defeat at Villa Park on 4th March 2022 can be traced back as the most recent 'pivot point' in our destiny...

Up until then, things were looking fine.

The defeat came on the back of a run of 10 games where we'd only lost once and we were sitting comfortably in 9th place. 

Our new owners had been in place for 2 months and we were promised significant investment in the squad. At long last, Ralph was going to be given decent funds to improve the squad that he had thus far managed on a shoestring.

Things were looking relatively rosey but, inexplicably, the wheels came off the track that day....

That Villa game does seem to have been a noticeable turning point, and I would love to see our Premier League record since that match. It would be horrific. I remember coming away from the home win over Norwich in the previous game thinking we might actually have our Saints back.

However I don't think it was that inexplicable. The squad had been on a constant decline since Koeman left and Ralph had us punching way above our weight, it was never sustainable.

SR have been disastrous but the rot had already set in way earlier under Gao, and we were heading in this direction regardless.

We've had the odd glimmer of hope such as the 2017 cup final, the good form under project restart and the playoff win, but overall it has been a steady decline for 10 years and shows no signs of stopping. It's been very hard work and you can tell it's taken its toll on the fanbase.

[skintsaint]

1 hour ago, saintant said:

For me the last time I felt contented with the club was the morning of the unexpected 4-0 loss to Villa a few years ago. After that we just went into a tail spin and have never recovered.

The first game after my son was born, sorry for bringing in this unlucky charm of a fan into this world.

Think we were on a long unbeaten streak at that point and looking good.

[gammon cheeks]

loved the way we played under  Koeman........very demanding manager by all accounts ..players respected  him and he would not take any shit .

[Appy]

Not kicking on when we finished sixth in 2016, allowing Everton to poach Koeman because we didn’t show enough ambition when we qualified for Europe, leaving ourselves with Austin, Long and Rodriguez as our strikers after Pelle and Mane went. 

[danjosaint]

23 minutes ago, gammon cheeks said:

loved the way we played under  Koeman........very demanding manager by all accounts ..players respected  him and he would not take any shit .

People do forget we were poor under RK at a point he was going out the door at Christmas time until results massively improved

[SaintLondon]

8 minutes ago, danjosaint said:

People do forget we were poor under RK at a point he was going out the door at Christmas time until results massively improved

Wasn't it against Sheff United in the cup? We lost 1-0 or something and things were a bit bleak? 

[ErwinK1961]

It’s all gone wrong since Shane got his guitar out.

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/watch-shane-long-and-his-guitar-stole-the-show-at-southamptons-end-of-season-awards-ceremony-78420

”we’ll never stop, until we reach the top” 

Koeman leaves, Pelle leaves, Mane leaves, Wanyama leaves, Fonte head goes.

Yeah we’ve had some modicum’s of success since then (League Cup final, Playoff final), but those never felt on solid foundations compared to how the end of 15/16 felt.

[ErwinK1961]

30 minutes ago, SaintLondon said:

Wasn't it against Sheff United in the cup? We lost 1-0 or something and things were a bit bleak? 

That was season before.

We went on a terrible run around winter in 15/16 season. Think we beat Arsenal 4-0 but that was our only win for like 10-12 matches. Think Koeman went 3 at the back for a bit (oh the irony) and we turned it around.

[Turkish]

30 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

That was season before.

We went on a terrible run around winter in 15/16 season. Think we beat Arsenal 4-0 but that was our only win for like 10-12 matches. Think Koeman went 3 at the back for a bit (oh the irony) and we turned it around.

It wasn't that bad a run, we lost 5 out 6, inc a 6-1 home loss v Liverpool in the league cup in a weird game where they seemed to score with every shot they had.  There were rumblings though but never really serious ones, then we beat Arsenal 4-0 but then lost the three after before we went on an unreal run winning 12 of our last 18 games the rest of the season.

[Osvaldorama]

Agreed with most of the above, I do think it’s natural for a club to go through cycles of ‘good’ and ‘bad’ periods.

However, the amplitude of our sin waves seem to be a lot more extreme than most.

Doesn’t feel like we’ve bottomed yet, sadly. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

Feel good factor evaporated the summer after we got promoted and the squad was not significantly overhauled. It was blatantly obvious then that we’d struggle in the EPL, particularly when it was clear RM’s tactical shitshow was still being employed with a sub-standard squad. It has been in steady decline since then with little respite until Tonda’s two games where it seemed we’d turned a corner and a glimmer of enjoyment re-appeared. But no - so encumbered by tactical and personnel dogma is the club now, that I can’t see anything like a sustained period of joy returning. Not until the club upgrades the squad to 70-80% of players who are at a similar level as Scienza. A massive hurdle.

[saintant]

4 hours ago, gammon cheeks said:

loved the way we played under  Koeman........very demanding manager by all accounts ..players respected  him and he would not take any shit .

Those were the days. Now the little lambs are wrapped in cotton wool and nobody at the club is allowed to criticise them. I blame the woke brigade 🙂

[ErwinK1961]

5 hours ago, Turkish said:

It wasn't that bad a run, we lost 5 out 6, inc a 6-1 home loss v Liverpool in the league cup in a weird game where they seemed to score with every shot they had.  There were rumblings though but never really serious ones, then we beat Arsenal 4-0 but then lost the three after before we went on an unreal run winning 12 of our last 18 games the rest of the season.

Sorry, was meant to say the Arsenal win was our only win in 10 matches, not that we didn’t win for 10 matches after that.

Remember a pretty turgid game against Watford in the rain where we won 2-0 that started the run. Also Forsters first game back

[Turkish]

34 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

Sorry, was meant to say the Arsenal win was our only win in 10 matches, not that we didn’t win for 10 matches after that.

Remember a pretty turgid game against Watford in the rain where we won 2-0 that started the run. Also Forsters first game back

We lost away at Bournemouth as well in that run and we were terrible

[cambsaint]

I can remember back to the early 60s, Ted Bates and promotion to Div 1

It was a real sport in those days kids entry was 2/6 ie12.5bp and adults was 5/- 25p. 

It was a truly affordable day out then and money hadn't taken the game over.

we really used to enjoy the game in those days.

Probably as others have said the end really came when we lost most of our best players to Liverpool and couldn't compete with the money thereafter. Unfortunately nowadays it's all about money ; but a good manager and sensible recruitment can still compete. However we have lacked that and it now seems that the academy can no longer produce the talent it used to as other clubs have caught up.

I really admire clubs such as Bournemouth Brighton Brentford and Crystal Palace for succeeding against all odds.

It's just a shame we have lost that ability. 

I stopped enjoying Saints a few years ago but I can't get them out of my system, my wife thinks it ridiculous that I am still bad tempered for a while at 78 when they suffer a bad loss. The only good thing this season is that I'm able to watch them on TV more often but unfortunately that has turned out to be a double edged sword as we can't seem to play well for more than 45 minutes.

Please excuse the witterings of a grumpy old man.

[SNSUN]

For me I felt most positive last in the COVID year 2020, post the first lockdown when football started up again we seemed like a different team under Ralph. 5 wins and 3 draws against decent opposition over 9 games, it definitely felt to me like we were going places. We then started the season in good form too having sold Boufal and Hojbjerg and signed KWP, Salisu and Diallo, but then we got to 2021 and bang, we basically turned to shit. What followed was poor form over the second half of the season, decreasingly talented players, then in 2022 there were ownership changes, a manager who probably got disillusioned and overstayed his tenure, Nathan Jones, etc etc etc and we are where we are.

The promotion season was decent-ish but I never felt we were ready for the Premier League - even if the play-off win was a special moment. Our time will come again but I find it hard currently to believe that it will come with SR in charge.

[Turkish]

8 hours ago, cambsaint said:

I can remember back to the early 60s, Ted Bates and promotion to Div 1

It was a real sport in those days kids entry was 2/6 ie12.5bp and adults was 5/- 25p. 

It was a truly affordable day out then and money hadn't taken the game over.

we really used to enjoy the game in those days.

Probably as others have said the end really came when we lost most of our best players to Liverpool and couldn't compete with the money thereafter. Unfortunately nowadays it's all about money ; but a good manager and sensible recruitment can still compete. However we have lacked that and it now seems that the academy can no longer produce the talent it used to as other clubs have caught up.

I really admire clubs such as Bournemouth Brighton Brentford and Crystal Palace for succeeding against all odds.

It's just a shame we have lost that ability. 

I stopped enjoying Saints a few years ago but I can't get them out of my system, my wife thinks it ridiculous that I am still bad tempered for a while at 78 when they suffer a bad loss. The only good thing this season is that I'm able to watch them on TV more often but unfortunately that has turned out to be a double edged sword as we can't seem to play well for more than 45 minutes.

Please excuse the witterings of a grumpy old man.

You’re right though it is all about money. When I started watching football the very best players always ended up at the top clubs but it wasn’t like now where every club has 25 players, soon as anyone has a few good games they’re linked with everyone. Players get snapped up and paid more money than they could ever dream of to go to big clubs and be part of their squad rather than play every week somewhere else

we can’t even keep our young players anymore which was all part of our DNA. Max Alleyne made his Man City debut at the weekend after being poached by them at 16, we’ve lost plenty of others that way too. Bigger clubs offering them money that we can’t or wont offer, if you’re then why wouldn’t you take it?

what is sad about our current set up is we play right into that with our self titled player trading club. Every player is signed with a view to what we can sell them for, which doesn’t even make it a football club it’s little more than a human stock exchange. Buy low sell when stock is highest. Results almost seem secondary these days .

 

[Miltonaggro]

16 minutes ago, Turkish said:

You’re right though it is all about money. When I started watching football the very best players always ended up at the top clubs but it wasn’t like now where every club has 25 players, soon as anyone has a few good games they’re linked with everyone. Players get snapped up and paid more money than they could ever dream of to go to big clubs and be part of their squad rather than play every week somewhere else

we can’t even keep our young players anymore which was all part of our DNA. Max Alleyne made his Man City debut at the weekend after being poached by them at 16, we’ve lost plenty of others that way too. Bigger clubs offering them money that we can’t or wont offer, if you’re then why wouldn’t you take it?

what is sad about our current set up is we play right into that with our self titled player trading club. Every player is signed with a view to what we can sell them for, which doesn’t even make it a football club it’s little more than a human stock exchange. Buy low sell when stock is highest. Results almost seem secondary these days .

 

I think back in the day there was an element of young players wanting or feeling they should ‘pay back’ the developing club with a couple of seasons as a first teamer. Made sense to both parties in reality if you consider likes of Shearer and Bridge. That’s gone out of the window last 10-15 years. 

[Willo of Whiteley]

6 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

I think back in the day there was an element of young players wanting or feeling they should ‘pay back’ the developing club with a couple of seasons as a first teamer. Made sense to both parties in reality if you consider likes of Shearer and Bridge. That’s gone out of the window last 10-15 years. 

The pay check means more now.

I’ve touched on it before but Jimmy-Jay Morgan went to Chelsea’s academy and he has been farmed out to the lower leagues the last couple of years.

He is never playing for the first team.

But I bet he’s set himself up for life along the way.

[Colinjb]

Frankly, before the 2017 League Cup final, it has been a bit of a constant errosion ever since. 

[Roo1976]

59 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

The pay check means more now.

I’ve touched on it before but Jimmy-Jay Morgan went to Chelsea’s academy and he has been farmed out to the lower leagues the last couple of years.

He is never playing for the first team.

But I bet he’s set himself up for life along the way.

as most of our bang average squad have set themselves up for life.......sadly as seems to have already been touched upon,if you get lured into a big club by money(hey most of us do the lottery) then your heads turned. You might get loaned out until something fits for all parties,but at this moment we also have 1 or 2 that wont be here in the first team next season,scienza and Jander,unless we possibly get promotion...............

[benjii]

About 6.5 inches if I strain...

Edited 6 hours ago by benjii
Sorry, wrong forum.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

That Villa game came the week after Russia invaded Ukraine so maybe Putin is to blame?

[St Louis]

On 12/01/2026 at 11:20, Saint Mikey said:

- That attacking Chris Nicholl team, 4-2-4, finishing 7th in 89/90.
- Strachan's team, Cup Final and 8th.
- Rise up the leagues from League 1 and Championship all the way through to Poch and Koeman.
- Some bits of Ralph's stint.

 

I agree with these 4.
I know the OP was asking about being content with all areas of the club... but I would also throw in the prime Le Tissier mid-90's era as a really enjoyable time. The rest of the team was absolute sh*te, but I was genuinely excited and looked forward to going to The Dell each week, just to see what Matty would do. And he would invariably lift most games with his magic! Sprinkle a few Ekelund's, Benali's and Berkovic's around too, and these were some fun times, even if it was mostly played at the wrong end of the table.
This huge financial gap didnt exist (or not as large anyway) to the 'Big' clubs either, so it always felt a more level playing field and like we could compete on our day with anyone.

[Gloucester Saint]

6 minutes ago, St Louis said:

I agree with these 4.
I know the OP was asking about being content with all areas of the club... but I would also throw in the prime Le Tissier mid-90's era as a really enjoyable time. The rest of the team was absolute sh*te, but I was genuinely excited and looked forward to going to The Dell each week, just to see what Matty would do. And he would invariably lift most games with his magic! Sprinkle a few Ekelund's, Benali's and Berkovic's around too, and these were some fun times, even if it was mostly played at the wrong end of the table.
This huge financial gap didnt exist (or not as large anyway) to the 'Big' clubs either, so it always felt a more level playing field and like we could compete on our day with anyone.

Beat Man U at home during the prime Fergie years 3 times in a row. Would never happen now. We had a good record v Newcastle when Keegan was there and the years afterwards up to 2004. Did better at home to Arsenal after Wright retired and regularly beat Spurs, Chelsea.

For some balance so this post isn’t too sepia tinted - we did concede 4 in 5 minutes at White Hart Lane under Branfoot, 5 at Sheff Weds, 5-0 at half time at Goodison - but at home we were hard to beat and the odd surprise away win at the big clubs.

Edited 4 hours ago by Gloucester Saint