Saints Expelled from Playoffs

[Saint_clark]

One thing I'd love to know is if any Prem teams observe other teams training within 72 hours. If it's happening up there but is banned in the EFL and worthy of expulsion, it kind of makes a mockery of the situation, no?

[BH_Saint]

I think expousion from the play-offs is the correct decision - Admitting to cheating in 3 games, no doubt there were other games where this also happened.

But there's no way Boro deserve to be anywhere near the playoff final. I think Boro's outrage has worked well for them there.

Eckert needs to go. Not knowing the rules is a piss-poor excuse. 

Edited 58 minutes ago by BH_Saint
spelling

[Stripey McStripe Shirt]

My two cents having slept on it.

We're guilty. We're idiots. There's absolutely no way we decided to spy on Oxford (no disrespect, but FFS!)/Ipswich/Borough and not the other 20 teams in the league. The marginal gains of spying must be miniscule, it just beggars belief. Whilst no defence though, I can absolutely guarantee that multiple clubs do it.

Assume it's been treated as a cup game, hence kicked out. Had it been the second round of the Carabao Cup I expect we'd hold our hands up and say fair enough, and it'd barely make a one line article in the Daily Mail.

If that's the case though and it's effectively a cup game, why has a points deduction also been applied? Seems like a double punishment to set the future precedent. Assume that's what will be wiped/reduced following appeal.

Unfortunately, it's going to have a generational impact on the club, barring some sort of miracle later today.

[Hussar Saint]

6 minutes ago, Stripey McStripe Shirt said:

I obviously wouldn't expect it to say anything of interest, but unbelievable that a statement hasn't been made yet. Even a one liner, holding statement would be better than nothing.

The last things posted on social media are about Wembley.

Yeah and those posts are now littered with sneering comments from Boro fans and others, just adding to the fucking shame of it all!!

We’re a fucking laughing stock!!

[Farmer Saint]

I'm interested with the legal recourse if our appeal fails. 

Essentially the 14 day response being wiped out is not due legal process, and this could allow a civil suit to be lodged against the EFL.

Edited 57 minutes ago by Farmer Saint

[Stripey McStripe Shirt]

On the bright side all publicity is good publicity (right? RIGHT?), and to top the headlines over Arsenal winning the league and Pep leaving is some achievement.

[Farmer Saint]

2 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

One thing I'd love to know is if any Prem teams observe other teams training within 72 hours. If it's happening up there but is banned in the EFL and worthy of expulsion, it kind of makes a mockery of the situation, no?

It does happen apparently.

[Saint_clark]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

I'm interested with the legal recourse if our appeal fails. 

Essentially the 14 day response being wiped out is not due legal process, and this could allow a civil suit to be lodged against the EFL.

I'm convinced we'd win a civil court case with the way this has all transpired, but that process would probably take years. 

[SaintNate]

2 minutes ago, drd said:

When Bournemouth got the -17 deduction it brought the players and fans together in lots of ways. Saints need to summon that spirit of fuck the FL

Meh, can't bring myself to come together with this club under the current ownership/leadership.

Sport Republic are the football ownership equivalent of Decca Records turning down the Beatles. Cunts step on rakes wherever they go. 

[Crab Lungs]

What a fucking ride. 

[Weston Super Saint]

2 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I'm interested with the legal recourse if our appeal fails. 

Essentially the 14 day response being wiped out is not due legal process, and this could allow a civil suit to be lodged against the EFL.

It states in the T's & C's (rules) that the timeline can be altered whenever it's deemed it needs to be.

We signed up to that, so would not win a civil case based on that.

[Scummer]

It feels as if saints thought they had some kind of plea deal in place. Agree to an expedited process, come clean on other instances, and get a reduced punishment. I can't see how we'd ever have agreed to it otherwise. If the EFL have gone back on that, it could be one of the grounds for appeal.

[Saint_clark]

1 minute ago, Crab Lungs said:

What a fucking ride. 

Hell of a season eh? Never dull being a Saints fan.

[James]

2 minutes ago, Stripey McStripe Shirt said:

My two cents having slept on it.

We're guilty. We're idiots. There's absolutely no way we decided to spy on Oxford (no disrespect, but FFS!)/Ipswich/Borough and not the other 20 teams in the league. The marginal gains of spying must be miniscule, it just beggars belief. Whilst no defence though, I can absolutely guarantee that multiple clubs do it.

Assume it's been treated as a cup game, hence kicked out. Had it been the second round of the Carabao Cup I expect we'd hold our hands up and say fair enough, and it'd barely make a one line article in the Daily Mail.

If that's the case though and it's effectively a cup game, why has a points deduction also been applied? Seems like a double punishment to set the future precedent. Assume that's what will be wiped/reduced following appeal.

Unfortunately, it's going to have a generational impact on the club, barring some sort of miracle later today.

Generational impact is right which is why the club need to stop this silent act and get ahead of what is going on. At the moment there is no communication with fans and it smacks of absolute incompetence. There is a window to stop this turning into an absolute catastrophe for this club, either by throwing every legal piece of resource you can muster in the next 24 hours and hoping for a miracle, or galvanising a fan base to come back stronger and adopt a f*ck you attitude to the EFL and certainly to Middlesbrough Football Club once they get battered by Hull. Neither of those outcomes will be achieved by panicking and saying nothing.

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, Weston Super Saint said:

It states in the T's & C's (rules) that the timeline can be altered whenever it's deemed it needs to be.

We signed up to that, so would not win a civil case based on that.

Didn't realise that - fair enough then.

[James]

Just now, Farmer Saint said:

Didn't realise that - fair enough then.

I think the Club will say that such an unprecedented sanction can’t possibly be handed out with due process on such an accelerated timeline. Whether that works or not, who knows.

I suspect Saints thought they had an assurance this would not be the outcome and have been fucked at the 11th hour and are in shock tbh.

[Harry_SFC]

Just now, James said:

I think the Club will say that such an unprecedented sanction can’t possibly be handed out with due process on such an accelerated timeline. Whether that works or not, who knows.

I suspect Saints thought they had an assurance this would not be the outcome and have been fucked at the 11th hour and are in shock tbh.

They probably thought admitting it would get them a lesser punishment like it helped Leeds. Clearly the EFL want to set a precedent. 

Putting Boro through reeks of corruption though but it's hardly surprising given their Chief Exec is on the board. 

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

1 minute ago, James said:

I think the Club will say that such an unprecedented sanction can’t possibly be handed out with due process on such an accelerated timeline. Whether that works or not, who knows.

I suspect Saints thought they had an assurance this would not be the outcome and have been fucked at the 11th hour and are in shock tbh.

Potentially seems the case that they've been stitched up.

The silence from the club is telling though.

[Weston Super Saint]

2 minutes ago, James said:

I think the Club will say that such an unprecedented sanction can’t possibly be handed out with due process on such an accelerated timeline. Whether that works or not, who knows.

Unless of course we admitted the charges!  Doesn't take long to say 'OK, you're guilty' if you've admitted you're guilty!

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

24 minutes ago, JohnnyShearer2.0 said:

Starting to think the ex boro analyst and boro had this in the back pocket for awhile.

Now we've been royally stitched up by the efl and this panel.

Complete incompetence from Saints

 

At the least he'd have tipped them off that we were almost certainly going to send someone up to 'spy'. They would have been well prepared, ready and waiting.

What a shitshow - would think the fairest thing to do is delay the final now and, and the least, set up a MIllwall v boro game to see who plays Hull in the final. Millwall have as much, if not more, right as them to be there.

[Katalinic]

24 minutes ago, James said:

I think the Club will say that such an unprecedented sanction can’t possibly be handed out with due process on such an accelerated timeline. Whether that works or not, who knows.

I suspect Saints thought they had an assurance this would not be the outcome and have been fucked at the 11th hour and are in shock tbh.

If this report is true, which I think it is, then Parsons has been incredibly naive.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2026/05/19/spygate-scandal-english-football-southampton-middlesbrough/

Edited 26 minutes ago by Katalinic

[HKsaint]

I doubt very much if the sanction should hinge on the position of a team. What if a team is 2nd or 7th in the table? Should the sanction be very different? 

[Saint_clark]

2 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

They probably thought admitting it would get them a lesser punishment like it helped Leeds. Clearly the EFL want to set a precedent. 

Putting Boro through reeks of corruption though but it's hardly surprising given their Chief Exec is on the board. 

This is a really good point actually, while the decision to expel us came from the commission I doubt their remit allowed them to say Boro should be reinstated so that would have come purely from the EFL.

[StrangelyBrown]

Wishful thinking, but I can only hope saints have some evidence of others (hopefully Boro) doing it to us. That would then open an enormous can of worms that the EFL couldn't cope with.

[Saint_clark]

8 minutes ago, James said:

Generational impact is right which is why the club need to stop this silent act and get ahead of what is going on. At the moment there is no communication with fans and it smacks of absolute incompetence. There is a window to stop this turning into an absolute catastrophe for this club, either by throwing every legal piece of resource you can muster in the next 24 hours and hoping for a miracle, or galvanising a fan base to come back stronger and adopt a f*ck you attitude to the EFL and certainly to Middlesbrough Football Club once they get battered by Hull. Neither of those outcomes will be achieved by panicking and saying nothing.

At the moment they risk losing a significant portion of the fan base altogether, and for good.

[James]

2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Unless of course we admitted the charges!  Doesn't take long to say 'OK, you're guilty' if you've admitted you're guilty!

But that’s exactly how plea deal works. You admit a “lesser” charge in exchange for leniency in the sentencing.

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, Weston Super Saint said:

Unless of course we admitted the charges!  Doesn't take long to say 'OK, you're guilty' if you've admitted you're guilty!

Which I think we did. I think we went cap in hand.

It may be that Tonda/Spors didn't realise and sanctioned it, having only recently been in position in this League, Parsons didn't know about it but was aware of the rule etc. Utter incompetence from the club, but this is SR, so par for the course for the last 4 years.

We then admit it all and cooperate, inform them of when we did it previously, and this is the result.

[James]

Just now, Saint_clark said:

At the moment they risk losing a significant portion of the fan base altogether, and for good.

Completely agree. It really is an extraordinary situation and not one that the people at the top of the club seem equipped to handle. They’ve been outwitted by Boro throughout this process, they had a free run to put out whatever media narrative they wanted and we just said there and said nothing. 

[Willo of Whiteley]

This will impact the club for years.

First the punishments.

Reputation.

Lack of communication from the club.

The sackings will begin, the clear out.

Innocent people will lose jobs because money has to be saved somewhere to fight all these ongoing legal battles.

Players - who would want to be a part of a club found guilty of all this.

Manager and coaching staff - depending who is involved will depend who’s left, but we’re almost certainly going to have a new manager. How do you attract anyone to have an association with this club after all this? Money? We’re going to be spending that on legal cases for years.

New players - unless you pay out on an attractive manager with pedigree to come in you aren’t getting decent players. Simple. We could’ve done this a year or two ago, but the cheap option every time has now become more expensive and costly than doing the more expensive option once.

The higher ups regardless of whether they knew or not - heads need to roll. This is scandalous. A stain. An embarrassment.

I’m actually very much done with this club.

It’s a proper weird feeling but I woke up this morning feeling the same as last night when I went to bed - I actually feel numb to it all. I’m angry and disappointed, and actually - I don’t care. I genuinely don’t care. Football is getting worse in general. It’s less fun nowadays with VAR and the same decisions, results, punditry happening day after day, year after year. I’m bored.

So the club won’t be getting any more of my money.

Finally, the young lad involved, his name has been dragged through the mud and whether that be right or wrong he is still a human being. I hope the club are supporting him and his family.
Thisnisnt his fault but he’s clearly been instructed to do this; how do you say no to a director or manager or whoever superior they had.
Mental health matters and I hope he gets all the support, backing, etc that he deserves.
They way he’s been hounded by the pundits and media is absolutely disgusting, and we’ve all seen the way things can go.

[SfcPhil]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. This will have a lasting effect over the club for years to come and us fans will bare the brunt of it as usual. How can we be so incompetent? I guess this is Sport Republic that we're talking about.

As for the people saying we should keep Tonda.. once our appeal fails today, he's gone, along with anyone else who was complicit in this whole saga, and rightly so. All of our results from the last seven months are open to scrutiny now, even if we didn't spy before them.

[Weston Super Saint]

4 minutes ago, James said:

But that’s exactly how plea deal works. You admit a “lesser” charge in exchange for leniency in the sentencing.

Then 'due process' was completed in the accelerated timeline.

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, SfcPhil said:

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. This will have a lasting effect over the club for years to come and us fans will bare the brunt of it as usual. How can we be so incompetent? I guess this is Sport Republic that we're talking about.

As for the people saying we should keep Tonda.. once our appeal fails today, he's gone, along with anyone else who was complicit in this whole saga, and rightly so. All of our results from the last seven months are open to scrutiny now, even if we didn't spy before them.

Having watched football for a long time, and how one robust challenge in the middle of a game can change momentum, I don't think spying on a couple of teams opens our results up to scrutiny. There are only a few teams with open training grounds anyway. Arsenal don't. Fulham don't. The results weren't fake.

[James]

Just now, Weston Super Saint said:

Then 'due process' was completed in the accelerated timeline.

Well, depends on what basis Saints feel they agreed to that accelerated timeline. If they agreed to comply in exchange for what they thought was an acceptable sanction only to have the rug pulled from under them then that isn’t due process, it’s a stitch up. 

[Saint In Cornwall]

There’s going to need to be heavy discounts on season tickets to get renewals for sure.

[James]

Just now, Saint In Cornwall said:

There’s going to need to be heavy discounts on season tickets to get renewals for sure.

My anger will eventually subside but honestly why the f*ck would anyone consider renewing right now. 

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, Saint In Cornwall said:

There’s going to need to be heavy discounts on season tickets to get renewals for sure.

Not necessarily, time is a healer and this is all still very raw.

[qwertyell]

Don't think I'll ever get over the fact that that was our best attempt at systemic subterfuge.

Forget everything else: people within the club put their heads together and came up with a cunning plan to skirt the rules - presumably on the understanding that they were really careful so as not to get caught - and then just sent the fucking intern on a tour of the country to stand around in plain view of everyone's training ground. I'm surprised he wasn't wearing a hi-vis jacket with "SPY" in neon lights emblazoned across the front. 

Meanwhile back at HQ, we were passing round photos of him mocked up as a camouflaged soldier and having a good old chuckle at our deviousness, seemingly unaware that at least one ex-employee was out there with full knowledge of the shittest kept secret in the world. 

And now the cherry on the cake is the manager claiming he didn't know we were breaking the rules. And presumably all the people involved kept that information from him too. 

Honestly, what a bunch of dickheads. Get rid of anyone that knew and didn't flag it.

 

[Weston Super Saint]

4 minutes ago, James said:

Well, depends on what basis Saints feel they agreed to that accelerated timeline. If they agreed to comply in exchange for what they thought was an acceptable sanction only to have the rug pulled from under them then that isn’t due process, it’s a stitch up. 

If that happened, then yes, stitched up.  That's different to 'due process' that would end with admittance of guilt.

If we agreed to something lesser, presumably we would have some kind of paper trail (but this is SR so who the fuck knows!), so the appeal will be similarly brief.

[Paul Chuckle]

3 minutes ago, Saint In Cornwall said:

There’s going to need to be heavy discounts on season tickets to get renewals for sure.

Good luck whoever has to spin the 'Early Bird' discount after this. 

The club will probably reintroduce the collectors box and pin badge to try and appease us, whilst keeping the prices as they were last season.

[James]

1 minute ago, qwertyell said:

Don't think I'll ever get over the fact that that was our best attempt at systemic subterfuge.

Forget everything else: people within the club put their heads together and came up with a cunning plan to skirt the rules - presumably on the understanding that they were really careful so as not to get caught - and then just sent the fucking intern on a tour of the country to stand around in plain view of everyone's training ground. I'm surprised he wasn't wearing a hi-vis jacket with "SPY" in neon lights emblazoned across the front. 

Meanwhile back at HQ, we were passing round photos of him mocked up as a camouflaged soldier and having a good old chuckle at our deviousness, seemingly unaware that at least one ex-employee was out there with full knowledge of the shittest kept secret in the world. 

And now the cherry on the cake is the manager claiming he didn't know we were breaking the rules. And presumably all the people involved kept that information from him too. 

Honestly, what a bunch of dickheads. Get rid of anyone that knew and didn't flag it.

 

100% but this is an SR led club, incompetence. 

[Stu Man Do]

Obviously we are bang to rights but does the punishment fit the crime?

if the EFL consider the play offs to be a separate competition how have we been punished in both league and P/O?

Also saw someone had posted the names of the “independent” panel which included Risdale of PNE (who have a vested interest in Saints being worse next season) and someone linked to Middlesbourgh?! 
 

I’m also confused as to how the legal status of a 14 days to appeal has been reduced to 24 hours! Why aren’t the EFL playing by their own rules?!

[Colinjb]

Still minded that this appeal is absolute hubris on the club's part.

You want to win back some goodwill? Talk to us, get rid of those responsible. Be open and apologetic.

F**k all those complicit. 

[Hatch]

would love to be a fly on the wall when the players turn up for training this morning

[Weston Super Saint]

4 minutes ago, Stu Man Do said:

Obviously we are bang to rights but does the punishment fit the crime?

if the EFL consider the play offs to be a separate competition how have we been punished in both league and P/O?

 

Because we admitted to doing it for two league games as well?

[a1ex2001]

35 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I'm interested with the legal recourse if our appeal fails. 

Essentially the 14 day response being wiped out is not due legal process, and this could allow a civil suit to be lodged against the EFL.

We should be the club worried about civil cases not the other way round!  I’m sure the clubs who just missed out on the play offs will be eying up a juicy payout!  Might add to the drama nicely for the next season of Disney FC!

[Dearky]

Can’t see anything other than still being kicked out. Probably have the 4 point deduction removed though.. Massive fallout in next few weeks and months. Just an absolute shitshow.

[Ralph Fastenbüttl]

There's a lot of understandable anger here being directed at the EFL, Middlesbrough, Gibson et al - but a lot of it is based on still unsubstantiated reporting and rumours. The only thing we do know is that the club cheated to try and gain an advantage. That's not OK, and we're not really in a position to demand anything of anyone right now.

We are the bad guys.

Even if we did somehow get the decision overturned by appeal, how exactly would it feel seeing the team walk out there at the weekend? To see us celebrating if we won? I honestly think it would feel largely awful.

And that's of our own doing.

My only hope at this stage is that Tonda was somehow not involved, that this was analysts gathering data and absorbing that into some sort of reporting mechanism that was fed back to the club. Because if that was the case, we'd be going into next year with an excellent coach and a group of players who'd be tremendously highly motivated to right a wrong.

But that's feeling increasingly unlikely. You never know, but the idea of going into next season with a points deduction and some new SR-appointed sap at the helm fills me with absolute dread. I'm not gonna say that the club's "screwed for a generation" or anything else equally hyperbolic, but these do feel like incredibly dark days indeed.

Fuck this club, seriously.

[Lord Duckhunter]

39 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Yes, if I were millwall I would not let this go. They should sue the EFL immediately. 
 

Boro have been using media pressure and Lawfare to be in the final. 

Why on earth should they be there instead of Millwall? I keep coming back to this. It makes absolutely no sense. 
 

What????
 

It made sense because we cheated against Middlesbrough, why is this so difficult for some people to understand. Millwall lost fair and square, the people making this sanction didn’t think Middlesbrough did. The chucked us out for cheating, in that game. If sides are chucked out of the cup, the team they played go through, they don’t put someone through who lost a different tie. 
 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

36 minutes ago, Stripey McStripe Shirt said:

Whilst no defence though, I can absolutely guarantee that multiple clubs do it

And surely our players knew what was going on. Or did Tonda waltz in to training and say, I think XXX are going to do this? 

We have been screwed by the Middlesbrough PR machine. While it seems like we could have sent scouts to other (if not all) games, I'd be talking to analysts seeing if this practice was rife. And why did Oxford, Ipswich not complain at the time. Do clubs hold dossiers on each other to use and the appropriate time?

[SW11_Saint]

25 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

This will impact the club for years.

First the punishments.

Reputation.

Lack of communication from the club.

The sackings will begin, the clear out.

Innocent people will lose jobs because money has to be saved somewhere to fight all these ongoing legal battles.

Players - who would want to be a part of a club found guilty of all this.

Manager and coaching staff - depending who is involved will depend who’s left, but we’re almost certainly going to have a new manager. How do you attract anyone to have an association with this club after all this? Money? We’re going to be spending that on legal cases for years.

New players - unless you pay out on an attractive manager with pedigree to come in you aren’t getting decent players. Simple. We could’ve done this a year or two ago, but the cheap option every time has now become more expensive and costly than doing the more expensive option once.

The higher ups regardless of whether they knew or not - heads need to roll. This is scandalous. A stain. An embarrassment.

I’m actually very much done with this club.

It’s a proper weird feeling but I woke up this morning feeling the same as last night when I went to bed - I actually feel numb to it all. I’m angry and disappointed, and actually - I don’t care. I genuinely don’t care. Football is getting worse in general. It’s less fun nowadays with VAR and the same decisions, results, punditry happening day after day, year after year. I’m bored.

So the club won’t be getting any more of my money.

Finally, the young lad involved, his name has been dragged through the mud and whether that be right or wrong he is still a human being. I hope the club are supporting him and his family.
Thisnisnt his fault but he’s clearly been instructed to do this; how do you say no to a director or manager or whoever superior they had.
Mental health matters and I hope he gets all the support, backing, etc that he deserves.
They way he’s been hounded by the pundits and media is absolutely disgusting, and we’ve all seen the way things can go.

🎯