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#Spygate

St Chalet

By St Chalet
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Posted by Miltonaggro,

Apologies for the war and peace post chaps – bear with or scroll past.  For the last week I have been trying to provide a steer on here as to why I think this silly episode will be concluded with a fine (in the region of £200k) and / or a possible future points deduction (though if I were advising Saints I would appeal this).  Simply that talk of forfeit and bans opens a legal can of worms that is well beyond the remit and scope of both the EFL and / or Middlesbrough FC. The best way to get

What a well thought out post. Thank you

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Posted by Saint_clark,

Outstanding.

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SNSUN

SNSUN

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Viking Saint said:

Can't see any way whatsoever that there will not be a game on at Wembley this Saturday. There is way too much logistical and financial involvement.

This is what I think. All IMO but I think if there was any chance the play-off final was in jeopardy they'd have just postponed it last week to give the EFL time to decide what to do. The fact we were able to sell tickets, and publicity for the game has gone ahead with us in it, makes me think the EFL allowed us to start selling tickets because that was not one of the punishments they would put on us. 

Hence why I think we'll get a big fine and points deduction (suspended or not) instead. 

  • Like 1
Dman

Dman

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Pancake said:

£10m fine and Hull go up. Just my guess

£10m and refused the right to play in the final....?

 

CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, die Mannyschaft said:

I think we will get removed from final only because its got to epic proportions with Middlesbrough having too much influence over EFL and the panel will not be impartial due to all the incorrect facts,  assumptions on Saints being such an organised spying outfit during season and applying football tactics to suit each team. 

Boro have too much power plus with other teams they influence like the clubs thet have named as been spied on.

The papers, media, pundits and Sky have had lots of time to present the case on behalf of Boro and anyone else that Saints shouldn't be in final. There is no counter news reports or anything from Saints. Its all very quiet on our side.

The 3 people on panel will be influenced by what the see and hear and its very unlikely they will just look at what extent the affect of spying was on Saints season or the 2 leg semi final.

The 2nd leg went ahead and Boro should have refused to play but they went ahead with it and that's now caused the who should be in final. 

Jesus wept.

  • Haha 1
sockeye

sockeye

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Pancake said:

£10m fine and Hull go up. Just my guess

And Tonda has to personally give Gibson a happy ending

Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Sold To The Man @ The Bar said:

My prediction…

Southampton FC cleared of all charges. No case to answer, as the allegations are not proven.

Southampton FC then begin legal proceedings against Middlesbrough FC for defamation.

It's nice to dream.

  • Like 1
LegalEagle

LegalEagle

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Sold To The Man @ The Bar said:

My prediction…

Southampton FC cleared of all charges. No case to answer, as the allegations are not proven.

Southampton FC then begin legal proceedings against Middlesbrough FC for defamation.

I’ll donate my right testicle to medical research if that happens. 

Toadhall Saint

Toadhall Saint

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Mozz said:

The BBC's article this morning contains "Only the EFL or Southampton can appeal, which would be heard by an Independent League Arbitration panel with three new members.  An appeal should be held within 14 days, but the EFL is expected to ask for a resolution by Friday."

So a potential appellant is asking for due process to be “hurried up” hmmm not sure that would happen.

  • Like 4
Pilchards

Pilchards

Posted
Posted

Why are people giving us your guesses or predictions?

Nobody knows yet so why all the doom and gloom? 
Get out in the garden and plant some flowers or do a jigsaw or something.

  • Like 2
Toadhall Saint

Toadhall Saint

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Dman said:

I think we will get removed from final only because its got to epic proportions with Middlesbrough having too much influence over EFL and the panel will not be impartial due to all the incorrect facts,  assumptions on Saints being such an organised spying outfit during season and applying football tactics to suit each team. 

Boro have too much power plus with other teams they influence like the clubs thet have named as been spied on.

The papers, media, pundits and Sky have had lots of time to present the case on behalf of Boro and anyone else that Saints shouldn't be in final. There is no counter news reports or anything from Saints. Its all very quiet on our side.

The 3 people on panel will be influenced by what the see and hear and its very unlikely they will just look at what extent the affect of spying was on Saints season or the 2 leg semi final.

The 2nd leg went ahead and Boro should have refused to play but they went ahead with it and that's now caused the who should be in final.

Now where have I heard that before 🤔

  • Haha 1
sockeye

sockeye

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, die Mannyschaft said:

I think we will get removed from final only because its got to epic proportions with Middlesbrough having too much influence over EFL and the panel will not be impartial due to all the incorrect facts,  assumptions on Saints being such an organised spying outfit during season and applying football tactics to suit each team. 

Boro have too much power plus with other teams they influence like the clubs thet have named as been spied on.

The papers, media, pundits and Sky have had lots of time to present the case on behalf of Boro and anyone else that Saints shouldn't be in final. There is no counter news reports or anything from Saints. Its all very quiet on our side.

The 3 people on panel will be influenced by what the see and hear and its very unlikely they will just look at what extent the affect of spying was on Saints season or the 2 leg semi final.

The 2nd leg went ahead and Boro should have refused to play but they went ahead with it and that's now caused the who should be in final. 

You are flapping, take a chill pill

This time next week we will be talking about transfers.

  • Like 2
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, LegalEagle said:

I’ll donate my right testicle to medical research if that happens. 

Rather than the Albert Hall...? 🙂

Edited by trousers
SNSUN

SNSUN

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Barsiem said:

 

 

Well there will be a break for lunch, probably an hour. If it's at the IDRC then it will be next to St Paul's Cathedral so I'm predicting lunch will be at Five Guys. Decision will be made around 4pm because nobody wants to be there past that time lest they hit the Tube rush hour. 

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die Mannyschaft

die Mannyschaft

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Then they're clearly guilty of a serious breach of Data Protection laws.

Saints can't and are not saying anything so its just how much time and what can the Saints lawyer challenge in the panel meeting.

  • Like 1
Tamesaint

Tamesaint

Posted
Posted

We have all heard the case for the prosecution. The defence case has not been presented publicly. Without that accurate predictions are impossible and we are all just guessing. 

  • Like 5
Lallana's Left Peg

Lallana's Left Peg

Posted
Posted

We don't know what evidence Boro submitted. We don't know what evidence Saints submitted.  We have no precedence for a punishment with the current rules.  We do know that the EFL have to be fair and proportionate in their punishment.  We do know that Saints can appeal.  We do know there is a game in 4 days that the EFL have the right to postpone or cancel.

Everything else is just irrelevant noise.  Fun to speculate though.

  • Like 3
Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, die Mannyschaft said:

Saints can't and are not saying anything so its just how much time and what can the Saints lawyer challenge in the panel meeting.

They're not saying anything publicly, that doesn't mean they're refusing to speak. 

  • Like 1
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Tamesaint said:

we are all just guessing. 

Bugger... I was convinced we had people on here that knew what they were talking about... ;)

  • Haha 5
Dirkdiggler

Dirkdiggler

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, LegalEagle said:

This is a KC chairing this. Not some muppet from your local boozer. You try to unduly influence these guys - and I know quite a few - they will go in the opposite direction. They don’t take too kindly to being leaned on.

Hopefully Boro’s underhanded tactics have worked against them in this case then.

Appy

Appy

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Pancake said:

£10m fine and Hull go up. Just my guess

A £10m fine and expulsion would be the most excessive punishment ever. 

  • Like 3
Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, sockeye said:

You are flapping, take a chill pill

This time next week we will be talking about transfers.

Specifically Hayden Hackney's reaction to a £250k per week saints contract being rejected because his incredibly selfish and unfair chairman (Gibson) wouldn't accept a £1M transfer fee... 

Edited by Saint86
  • Like 1
Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

Well there will be a break for lunch, probably an hour. If it's at the IDRC then it will be next to St Paul's Cathedral so I'm predicting lunch will be at Five Guys. Decision will be made around 4pm because nobody wants to be there past that time lest they hit the Tube rush hour. 

Get ready for SaintsExtra to put out a "the EFL independent hearing has broken for lunch and will resume in one hour" post... and someone to share it on here as if its breaking news.

Edited by Saint86
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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman

Posted
Posted
Just now, Saint86 said:

Get ready for SaintsExtra to put out a "the EFL independent hearing has broken for lunch and will resume in one hour" post... and someone to share it on here as if its breaking news.

Yes! No idea why anyone follows that account 😂

  • Like 1
BH_Saint

BH_Saint

Posted
Posted
53 minutes ago, James G said:

I still find it amazing they recognised Will Salt from the back of one manager of the month photo

I would imagine that the Boro analysts would have recognised him.

Pancake

Pancake

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Appy said:

A £10m fine and expulsion would be the most excessive punishment ever. 

Just a gut feel. Think we will be made an example of. 

sadoldgit

sadoldgit

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, BH_Saint said:

I would imagine that the Boro analysts would have recognised him.

So the analysts also analyse the analysts?

🕵

 

Edited by sadoldgit
egg

egg

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Tonda seemed to want to have his say in fact seemed frustrated that he couldn’t doesn’t smack me as someone who is guilty.

That could be for a variety of reasons, a lack of judgement being one of them.

  • Like 4
Toadhall Saint

Toadhall Saint

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Pancake said:

Just a gut feel. Think we will be made an example of. 

I got shouted down yesterday for suggesting the “punishment” will need to act as a deterrent for other clubs - so agreed we will (unfortunately) be made an example of - just depends where that bar is set ie is it seen as being proportionate.

trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, James G said:

I still find it amazing they recognised Will Salt from the back of one manager of the month photo

 

11 minutes ago, BH_Saint said:

I would imagine that the Boro analysts would have recognised him.

I'm still clinging onto the 'entrapment' conspiracy theory... i.e. the ex-Saints / ex-Middlesbrough whistleblower analyst 'enticed' the Saints analyst to the training ground... 

(And, yes, the usual "that's not a defence" applies...)

Edited by trousers
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Toadhall Saint

Toadhall Saint

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

hahaahhahaha ... I just seen an old acquaintance of mine is on the board!! And no, I'm not. I haven't spoken to him for about 8 years, nice guy though. 

Fair? Or just nice?

  • Haha 1
DellBlockH

DellBlockH

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, CSA96 said:

 

So Blackmore knows no more than the rest of us. I can't read the last bit as I no longer subscribe to the cess pit of X. Was it interesting?

 

  • Like 1
Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Pancake said:

Just a gut feel. Think we will be made an example of. 

They can't just "make an example" of us. We would appeal, blow up the entire playoff schedule, and potentially sue them for a significant amount of money.

  • Like 3
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

 

"any outcome might well come later rather than sooner "

Not sure if he'd have said that if he didn't have a bit of intel on the club's expectations re: timelines...?

Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

hahaahhahaha ... I just seen an old acquaintance of mine is on the board!! And no, I'm not. I haven't spoken to him for about 8 years, nice guy though. 

Massive opportunity missed to claim ITK status, plus make a few “a reliable contact told me…..” posts 

you need to raise your game 

  • Haha 3
Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman

Posted
Posted
Just now, Toadhall Saint said:

Fair? Or just nice?

Both ;) 

 

Just now, DellBlockH said:

So Blackmore knows no more than the rest of us. I can't read the last bit as I no longer subscribe to the cess pit of X. Was it interesting?

 

Same - constant twitter links are annoying as I don't want to sign up to that rubbish again

  • Like 4
Cabrone

Cabrone

Posted
Posted

I think it'll be a fine and 3 points but that's just my opinion.

It's taking time because obviously it's a big decision, Saints need to be allowed to put their case together and the authorities want as much time as possible to think about it. Perfectly understandable.

I also think the club should stick with Tonda, he's the best manager we've had since Ralf and arguably could go on to much greater things.

If the club were to be thrown out for something as lame as this he'd be supercharged to right wrongs. If he were to get the boot he'd be snapped up elsewhere, the guy will be rated across Europe now.

Finally if Boro were to replace us I'd definitely feel aggrieved. Yes Saints broke rules and need to take their punishment but at the end of the day Boro lost fair and square. It wasn't William Salt that cost them, it was their finishing ability, their fitness and their lack of squad depth.

Fingers crossed Saturday is still on.

  • Like 1
Toadhall Saint

Toadhall Saint

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, egg said:

That could be for a variety of reasons, a lack of judgement being one of them.

Could be but that wasn’t the impression I got watching it. Either way hopefully we find out from him soon.

trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

hahaahhahaha ... I just seen an old acquaintance of mine is on the board!! And no, I'm not. I haven't spoken to him for about 8 years, nice guy though. 

Might that make him a local (to Southampton) person...?

P.s. what shape are his earlobes please?

Edited by trousers
  • Haha 1

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