Tonda Eckert

[James]

3 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

what a load of nonsense. The club benefited from cheating and can be punished as a club. Tonda was the instigator and lead on the cheating and can also be punished as an individual.

It absolutely can be "one or the other" as we have seen when organisations (like NHS trusts) are punished and then individuals in that organisation are also punished.

There's no two bites of the cherry, just Saints and Saints fans moaning. Get over it.

Thank god you aren’t a defence lawyer 😂 - you did wrong, get over it, no matter what the punishment is. 

[qwertyell]

2 hours ago, beatlesaint said:

Can we please get a fkin ban on people posting “ChatGPT thinks this” ?

But then they'd have to post their own thoughts - and that's a sinister, garbled can of worms you don't want to open. 

[Sunglasses Ron]

Tonda should be appropriately punished.

My concern is that, if the punishment the club received is anything to go by, he'll be paraded butt-naked through the streets of Portsmouth with rotten fruit thrown at him by a baying mob. "Shame"! 

[CB Fry]

18 minutes ago, James said:

Thank god you aren’t a defence lawyer 😂 - you did wrong, get over it, no matter what the punishment is. 

Any lawyer will be dealing with mitigation as we have already admitted we did it. Your mistake is to think we are formulating a defence, we aren't, we are mitigating the scale of the punishment.

 

[hypochondriac]

15 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Any lawyer will be dealing with mitigation as we have already admitted we did it. Your mistake is to think we are formulating a defence, we aren't, we are mitigating the scale of the punishment.

 

I can absolutely see the logic in him getting charged. My only quarrel is with the perceived double standard between the warning for Bielsa and the charge for Tonda when on the face of it the Bielsa FA rule breach is more egregious.

[ally_uk]

So what's the actual punishment?

[James]

19 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Any lawyer will be dealing with mitigation as we have already admitted we did it. Your mistake is to think we are formulating a defence, we aren't, we are mitigating the scale of the punishment.

 

I’m not making that mistake, everyone knows we accepted the EFL charges. I fully accept we’ve done wrong and that the Club have accepted the charge. It’s possible for us to argue that the scale of the punishment is disproportionate. Your response to anyone who suggests that the Club might already have been punished enough seems to be that they should just “get over it”. 

[Stripey McStripe Shirt]

2 minutes ago, ally_uk said:

So what's the actual punishment?

He has to spy on Portsmouth. Poor sod.

[CB Fry]

3 minutes ago, James said:

I’m not making that mistake, everyone knows we accepted the EFL charges. I fully accept we’ve done wrong and that the Club have accepted the charge. It’s possible for us to argue that the scale of the punishment is disproportionate. Your response to anyone who suggests that the Club might already have been punished enough seems to be that they should just “get over it”. 

The club have been punished. Where have I said they haven't?

Tonda has not been punished as an individual and he will be. People churning out bullshit analogies to convince themselves he won't be can crack on but they will be disappointed.

[SaintsLoyal]

We reap what we sow, and with over ten people fully aware of what was going on at Staplewood, nobody can complain about the actions being taken by the EFL or FA.

The beleaguered Head of Media, Jordan Sibley, and Hoover salesman Phil Parsons are both totally out of their depth, as has been proven countless times—especially by the amateurish response to the EFL charges.

Even this club statement stinks a bit of arrogance, saying, "Our focus remains on preparations for the Championship season." That's not something you should be saying in a statement about FA charges.

 

[James]

1 minute ago, CB Fry said:

The club have been punished. Where have I said they haven't?

Tonda has not been punished as an individual and he will be. People churning out bullshit analogies to convince themselves he won't be can crack on but they will be disappointed.

Didn’t say that you said the Club hadn’t been punished. Two further thoughts:

1. Banning the manager 3 weeks before the start of a new season is another punishment levied on the club (and fans), it’s not just an individual sanction, it completely screws the entire organisation.

2. Tonda has been punished as a result of the sanctions imposed on the club already - he’s lost out on the chance to manage in the PL and the earnings associated with that.

You cant separate out the punishments into “club” sanctions and “individual” sanctions. I know that’s not what the authorities will say and I know that it’s not necessarily how the rules technically operate given the independent processes of the FA and the EFL but it doesn’t feel in any way proportionate to the level of the offence if, as we all fear, we end up being kicked out of the playoffs, starting on -4 AND having our manager suspended for a long period on the eve of the season. It was a kid standing behind a tree with an iPhone, not match fixing. 

[Sunglasses Ron]

9 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Tonda has not been punished as an individual and he will be.

I'd argue that he has definitely been punished...

>Incurring the wrath of fans, players etc.

>Reputation in tatters

>Police protection required in the days after we were thrown out of the playoffs

>Deprived of a potentially nice pay rise if we'd been promoted

If I was him, I'd be going in heavily on the impact this has already had in the hope that this results in limited additional sanctions.

Edited 6 hours ago by Sunglasses Ron

[Toussaint]

8 minutes ago, SaintsLoyal said:

We reap what we sow, and with over ten people fully aware of what was going on at Staplewood, nobody can complain about the actions being taken by the EFL or FA.

The beleaguered Head of Media, Jordan Sibley, and Hoover salesman Phil Parsons are both totally out of their depth, as has been proven countless times—especially by the amateurish response to the EFL charges.

Even this club statement stinks a bit of arrogance, saying, "Our focus remains on preparations for the Championship season." That's not something you should be saying in a statement about FA charges.

 

You call yourself Saints Loyal but everything you post seems to imply loathing of the whole club?

[The Kraken]

9 minutes ago, Sunglasses Ron said:

I'd argue that he has definitely been punished...

>Incurring the wrath of fans, players etc.

>Reputation in tatters

>Police protection required in the days after we were thrown out of the playoffs

>Deprived of a potentially nice pay rise if we'd been promoted

If I was him, I'd be going in heavily on the impact this has already had in the hope that this results in limited additional sanctions.

Dear FA, please don’t ban me, I didn’t get a pay rise and some fans said hurts words.

Yep, that should work.

[newyork]

17 minutes ago, SaintsLoyal said:

We reap what we sow, and with over ten people fully aware of what was going on at Staplewood, nobody can complain about the actions being taken by the EFL or FA.

The beleaguered Head of Media, Jordan Sibley, and Hoover salesman Phil Parsons are both totally out of their depth, as has been proven countless times—especially by the amateurish response to the EFL charges.

Even this club statement stinks a bit of arrogance, saying, "Our focus remains on preparations for the Championship season." That's not something you should be saying in a statement about FA charges.

 

what a load of pathetic clap. Saints Loyal - I think you need to look at yourself. 

[Sunglasses Ron]

1 minute ago, The Kraken said:

Dear FA, please don’t ban me, I didn’t get a pay rise and some fans said hurts words.

Yep, that should work.

Do you honestly think he (and his family) didn't have a really rough time when everything blew up?

Outlining the impact this has already had on him, and re-affirming his remorse, are surely the two main ways he will escape a significant FA punishment.

[sfc4prem]

The optimist in me makes me hope that the punishment will be minimal - either some touchline bans or an indefinite suspended ban to come into place if he commits the same offence again. 

I hope they don't go in too hard on the young chap.

[bugenhagen]

17 minutes ago, James said:

Didn’t say that you said the Club hadn’t been punished. Two further thoughts:

1. Banning the manager 3 weeks before the start of a new season is another punishment levied on the club (and fans), it’s not just an individual sanction, it completely screws the entire organisation.

2. Tonda has been punished as a result of the sanctions imposed on the club already - he’s lost out on the chance to manage in the PL and the earnings associated with that.

You cant separate out the punishments into “club” sanctions and “individual” sanctions. I know that’s not what the authorities will say and I know that it’s not necessarily how the rules technically operate given the independent processes of the FA and the EFL but it doesn’t feel in any way proportionate to the level of the offence if, as we all fear, we end up being kicked out of the playoffs, starting on -4 AND having our manager suspended for a long period on the eve of the season. It was a kid standing behind a tree with an iPhone, not match fixing. 

1) They don’t see it that way. The proses takes the time it does, and if the timing happens to be bad for us, it’s not a mitigation factor. 

2) Again, the won’t view his potential loss of earnings, reputation and opportunities as punishment. 

I think a lot are looking at it from our point of view, but we should be looking at it from their perspective. 

[Thereisonlyonemickychannon]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

Gibson is gong to have the baby taken away.

Gibson is Herod

[AlexLaw76]

May as well start the New Manager thread.

 

he will get a ban the would destroy the start of the season IMO

Edited 5 hours ago by AlexLaw76

[CB Fry]

44 minutes ago, Sunglasses Ron said:

I'd argue that he has definitely been punished...

>Incurring the wrath of fans, players etc.

>Reputation in tatters

>Police protection required in the days after we were thrown out of the playoffs

>Deprived of a potentially nice pay rise if we'd been promoted

If I was him, I'd be going in heavily on the impact this has already had in the hope that this results in limited additional sanctions.

None of that is "Punishment" from the FA's perspective. Honestly this is quite tiring.

 

 

[StrangelyBrown]

The charge is completely fair.

What is given as a punishment may or may not be, but until we know what it is it really seems futile speculating.

Has anyone seen anything that suggests when the punishment will be decided?

What is crap is how long this has taken, but literally no suprise given what a shambles of an organisation they are.

[Charlie Wayman]

1 hour ago, James said:

I’m not making that mistake, everyone knows we accepted the EFL charges. I fully accept we’ve done wrong and that the Club have accepted the charge. It’s possible for us to argue that the scale of the punishment is disproportionate. Your response to anyone who suggests that the Club might already have been punished enough seems to be that they should just “get over it”. 

The FA has been looking at Eckert's conduct not the Club's. He hasn't been punished yet as far as we know unless Spors docked a fine fron his wages.

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, DellBlockH said:

Loss of bonus for getting to EPL (assuming we would have won the final), loss of EPL-level wage (assuming we would have won the final), loss of reputation and threats to his life sufficiently serious for the police to offer protection. None of these, admittedly, have been imposed by the FA. But he hasn't exactly got away with it.

Losing the thing you stood to gain by cheating isn't a punishment, if that were true there would be no consequences to trying to cheat at everything all the time. That's why if you get caught robbing a bank, they don't just take the swag off you and say, "well he's been fined £3m, I think that's already a enough punishment."

The point of the FA investigation is to establish the requirement to issue an actual defined punishment. 'Bad reputation' and 'social media threats' are completely subjective and unquantifiable.

[sfc4prem]

12 minutes ago, StrangelyBrown said:

The charge is completely fair.

What is given as a punishment may or may not be, but until we know what it is it really seems futile speculating.

Has anyone seen anything that suggests when the punishment will be decided?

What is crap is how long this has taken, but literally no suprise given what a shambles of an organisation they are.

This is an organisation that thought appointing a defensively minded German would be good for our attack-blessed England team.

[BarberSaint]

2 hours ago, CB Fry said:

what a load of nonsense. The club benefited from cheating and can be punished as a club. Tonda was the instigator and lead on the cheating and can also be punished as an individual.

It absolutely can be "one or the other" as we have seen when organisations (like NHS trusts) are punished and then individuals in that organisation are also punished.

There's no two bites of the cherry, just Saints and Saints fans moaning. Get over it.

Except we can take it that they didn't.  If they want to 'punish' him they can take away his 'manager of the month' awards. 

 

Then if he wins them again, it'll be down to him, not a squirrel in a tree.

[Weston Super Saint]

15 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

The FA has been looking at Eckert's conduct not the Club's. He hasn't been punished yet as far as we know unless Spors docked a fine fron his wages.

True.  But the only person who was allegedly 'bullied' has now been given a permanent contract.  

All we know is that the club are 'co-operating' with the FA.  That doesn't, necessarily, mean we are capitulating like we did with the EFL.  We might be asking for proof of the bullying.  Other than that the precedent was set by Bielsa, so Tonda could just get a caution about conduct by the FA.

Lots of ifs, buts and maybes at the moment - as with the last case with the EFL, we don't know what the club is holding its hands up to!  I'd hope we've learnt a lesson from last time but I'm not holiding my breath.

[Saint NL]

I saw elsewhere that some (obviously very busy) Boro fans were reading the comments here and reporting them for the amusement of others.

They are a very sad bunch, especially the fella "Jigsaw" who I heard has sexual intercourse with farm animals 

[saintant]

1 hour ago, SaintsLoyal said:

We reap what we sow, and with over ten people fully aware of what was going on at Staplewood, nobody can complain about the actions being taken by the EFL or FA.

The beleaguered Head of Media, Jordan Sibley, and Hoover salesman Phil Parsons are both totally out of their depth, as has been proven countless times—especially by the amateurish response to the EFL charges.

Even this club statement stinks a bit of arrogance, saying, "Our focus remains on preparations for the Championship season." That's not something you should be saying in a statement about FA charges.

 

It was only a matter of time 🙂

[Give it to Ron]

42 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

May as well start the New Manager thread.

 

he will get a ban the would destroy the start of the season IMO

Why we have Lallana to take over?

Edited 4 hours ago by Give it to Ron

[saintant]

20 minutes ago, BarberSaint said:

Except we can take it that they didn't.  If they want to 'punish' him they can take away his 'manager of the month' awards. 

 

Then if he wins them again, it'll be down to him, not a squirrel in a tree.

Agree - ridiculous to say the club benefited from cheating. We shouldn't have done it but to suggest we benefited is pushing it.

[Give it to Ron]

🚨 ‘Some sources are suggesting’ that the FA could hand Southampton boss Tonda Eckert a six-month ban #saintsfc @guardian

[saintant]

Just now, Give it to Ron said:

🚨 ‘Some sources are suggesting’ that the FA could hand Southampton boss Tonda Eckert a six-month ban #saintsfc @guardian

That would be ridiculous and totally disproportionate but not surprising.

[pimpin4rizeal]

2 hours ago, Sunglasses Ron said:

Tonda should be appropriately punished.

My concern is that, if the punishment the club received is anything to go by, he'll be paraded butt-naked through the streets of Portsmouth with rotten fruit thrown at him by a baying mob. "Shame"! 

Why should he be punished .. the club already took the punishment by getting kicked out of the playoffs .. banning him punishes us again more then him he could probably piss off to Germany and get a top job there 

[warsash saint]

At least we are back on the main BBC News

[beatlesaint]

16 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

🚨 ‘Some sources are suggesting’ that the FA could hand Southampton boss Tonda Eckert a six-month ban #saintsfc @guardian

If that’s a suspended sentence then it’s a possibility I suppose

[Badger]

42 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

True.  But the only person who was allegedly 'bullied' has now been given a permanent contract.  

All we know is that the club are 'co-operating' with the FA.  That doesn't, necessarily, mean we are capitulating like we did with the EFL.  We might be asking for proof of the bullying.  Other than that the precedent was set by Bielsa, so Tonda could just get a caution about conduct by the FA.

Lots of ifs, buts and maybes at the moment - as with the last case with the EFL, we don't know what the club is holding its hands up to!  I'd hope we've learnt a lesson from last time but I'm not holiding my breath.

Wonder how long Salt will remain in his new found role.

As for Bielsa, it’s been pointed out many times that it doesn’t set a precedent.

It wasn’t a specified rule then, plus Bielsa is seen as a quirky and mad Argentine loved by the media and can do no wrong when indulging in a minor over enthusiastic eccentricity. 

[Badger]

4 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

If that’s a suspended sentence then it’s a possibility I suppose

Why (only?) if it’s a suspended sentence? 

[DT]

The world's gone fucking mad. Total blindness to big clubs deaing with dogdy cash, laundering, cheating and large scale fraud and we get a ton of bricks on our head for a boy with a phone. Pathetic.

[Badger]

1 hour ago, Charlie Wayman said:

The FA has been looking at Eckert's conduct not the Club's. He hasn't been punished yet as far as we know unless Spors docked a fine fron his wages.

Wonder if they are also looking at the framework he was working within and the club guiding a young manager on compliance with regulations. 

[Badger]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

May as well start the New Manager thread.

 

he will get a ban the would destroy the start of the season IMO

You’d have thought we’d have been sounding out some options either as interims, or replacements depending on what comes.

Or as someone else said, it’s Lallana   waiting in the wings. Cometh the hour, cometh the Nivea Man. 

[beatlesaint]

4 minutes ago, Badger said:

Why (only?) if it’s a suspended sentence? 

Because a 6 month ban on top of what the club had with the expulsion would be totally disproportionate……

[LordHester]

2 minutes ago, Badger said:

You’d have thought we’d have been sounding out some options either as interims, or replacements depending on what comes.

 

Koeman's currently free ... 

[Badger]

Just now, beatlesaint said:

Because a 6 month ban on top of what the club had with the expulsion would be totally disproportionate……

Says who?
 

If we’ve learnt nothing else in the last two months or so, I think we’ve come to realise that what we as fans see as ‘ totally disproportionate’ isn’t on the same scale as the football authorities. 

[Weston Super Saint]

8 minutes ago, Badger said:

Wonder how long Salt will remain in his new found role.

As for Bielsa, it’s been pointed out many times that it doesn’t set a precedent.

It wasn’t a specified rule then, plus Bielsa is seen as a quirky and mad Argentine loved by the media and can do no wrong when indulging in a minor over enthusiastic eccentricity. 

It wasn't a specified rule with the EFL.

The FA have had the rule Tonda is charged under for a long time, so Bielsa would have set a precedent for FA punishment.

[Maggie May]

I’ve heard the people of Middlesbrough will have a bank holiday when the FA confirm Tonda’s ban. 

[Weston Super Saint]

1 minute ago, Maggie May said:

I’ve heard the people of Middlesbrough will have a bank holiday when the FA confirm Tonda’s ban. 

I've heard the banks in Middlesbrough have a permanent holiday as the residents get their benefits from the Post Office

[saintant]

The following is quoted from the FA regarding possible sanctions for breach of rule E3.1

• Sporting sanctions: Suspension from matches (length varies by level and seriousness — e.g., low: 0–2 matches, mid: 1–3 matches, high: 3–6 matches in the National League System)

No mention of lengthy bans so this surely implies they'd be on dodgy ground if they hit Eckert with anything more than a 6 match ban unless they consider his offence was well above high level of seriousness.

[egg]

28 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Why should he be punished .. the club already took the punishment by getting kicked out of the playoffs .. banning him punishes us again more then him he could probably piss off to Germany and get a top job there 

Because he's not the club. 

The get have been punished for what they did.

Tonda will now be punished, as an individual, for what he did. 

Is anyone disputing that what he did doesn't amount to misconduct? 

[saintant]

11 minutes ago, DT said:

The world's gone fucking mad. Total blindness to big clubs deaing with dogdy cash, laundering, cheating and large scale fraud and we get a ton of bricks on our head for a boy with a phone. Pathetic.

In a nutshell.