Watford 2-1 Saints - Match Thread

[LoyalSaintSO50]

Just now, EssEffCee said:

Sheffield Wednesday under Martin.

Oh yeah Tella and Prowsey still with us 

[Window Cleaner]

2 hours ago, CB Fry said:

I'm 50 next year and had a lifetime of seeing Saints playing in blue away kits for decades and decades.

Just a few fucking bellends who pretend we've never done that and we somehow look like Portsmouth if we do.

What "Old guard" are you talking about? 

You are right, thinking about it, the two shades of blue half and half was one of our best ever shirts, had a good team to wear it too. Nobody accused us if looking like the Skates at all if I remember correctly.

Old guard? Those from the Milton who started out in the chocolate boxes probably, those who watched us when we were among the best. Must be a dwindling group nowadays. 

[AlexLaw76]

Where has all this nonsense come from about having a blue kit?

We have had plenty over the years, many being the 2nd kit

This was the worst/kind of iconic

[Barton Saint]

Dwindling group? I am sure that those of us who were in the chocolate boxes are all still season ticket holders and a bit more stoic and less reactionary 

[Window Cleaner]

2 minutes ago, Barton Saint said:

Dwindling group? I am sure that those of us who were in the chocolate boxes are all still season ticket holders and a bit more stoic and less reactionary 

Surely not.

There must be some assuredly but it's nigh on 60 years ago for most I suppose.

[AlexLaw76]

given we probably "observed" lots of other training sessions last season, I wonder if Tonda is about to get found out?

Hope not, but no doubt this will be a talking point on Sky if we just flatline over the next few games.

[Badger]

9 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I think it was lore the fact we needed him off the payroll than him desperately trying to leave 

Although I don’t think he was beating the door down to leave, he did have an ambition to get back in the England frame,so for that I think he was keen to go. But he handled the thing well it seems with little fuss.

[Badger]

12 minutes ago, Window Cleaner said:

You are right, thinking about it, the two shades of blue half and half was one of our best ever shirts, had a good team to wear it too. Nobody accused us if looking like the Skates at all if I remember correctly.

Old guard? Those from the Milton who started out in the chocolate boxes probably, those who watched us when we were among the best. Must be a dwindling group nowadays. 

Possibly because the strip didn’t draw comparison with them. The first blue away kit I remember (1980) from the Keegan era was in a design that at the time was unique to us with the front and rear panels.

It was also navy and sky blue, not the Skates shade.

An epic kit, must be due for a rerun. 

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

I'm hoping that our below par start was mainly down to a somewhat half-baked pre-season and that once we're firing on all cylinders then 'normal service' will resume.

We need to address the large Shea Charles sized gap in midfield pronto though...

If we were 7 points off an auto-promotion spot around Christmas, we'd probably fancy our chances of closing the gap, so nowhere near panic stations yet... 

Not buying this pre seasons take. If we had a below par pre season, what on earth did Watford have? They were out of puff from about 55min. 

Reality is that they put a colossal amount into pressing the hell out of us first half, got rewards from stephens and manning, and then parked the bus and couldn't live with us 2nd half. Sadly we missed Stewart.

[whelk]

15 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

given we probably "observed" lots of other training sessions last season, I wonder if Tonda is about to get found out?

Hope not, but no doubt this will be a talking point on Sky if we just flatline over the next few games.

lol. So desperate 

[Turkish]

19 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

given we probably "observed" lots of other training sessions last season, I wonder if Tonda is about to get found out?

Hope not, but no doubt this will be a talking point on Sky if we just flatline over the next few games.

Seeing as the three we got caught for we played shit and lost maybe we have carried on?

[Midfield_General]

55 minutes ago, Badger said:

West Brom away , last minute penalty under Poch. 

Colin Clarke hatrick in 1986 v QPR. I think that was first game of the season. And his home debut. 
 

Also, and it might pre-date your interest but we beat West Brom 4-0 at The Dell in 1976.

Beat West Ham 4-0 at the Dell on opening day 1988 too. Paul Rideout’s debut and he scored two. 

[Turkish]

32 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Where has all this nonsense come from about having a blue kit?

We have had plenty over the years, many being the 2nd kit

This was the worst/kind of iconic

That kit if fucking awful. It’s all some bollocks about looking like Pompey, which is quite frankly ridiculous 

[stknowle]

55 minutes ago, Badger said:

West Brom away , last minute penalty under Poch. 

Colin Clarke hatrick in 1986 v QPR. I think that was first game of the season. And his home debut. 
 

Also, and it might pre-date your interest but we beat West Brom 4-0 at The Dell in 1976.

Clean forgot re the Brom one, I was having recollections of à last minute flukey Lambert header against Swansea, which I think was in the same season but concluded not on opening day . The passage of time fogging my judgement and fusing 2 matches into one 🤦‍♂️. The rest does indeed pre-date my interest though as noted by someone above we also beat Wednesday in Martin’s first game.

[davefizzy14]

Dissappointing result today. First half we weren't on our normal level. Second half we completely bossed it. Larin's goal was neatly taken after great play from Bragg 😊 We could have nicked a draw towards the end with THB chance. On to next week.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

And I think we need a better response to "You cheating bastards"...

At the moment, "We spy where we want" sounds a bit naff. Any ideas?

[Badger]

14 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Beat West Ham 4-0 at the Dell on opening day 1988 too. Paul Rideout’s debut and he scored two. 

Think he only scored four all season or something pretty poor. Although he contributed quite a bit to how we played that season and the next (think it was the 4-2-4 with Shearer, Rod Wallace and MLT up front), never felt Rideout lived up to our hopes of him. 

[Badger]

17 minutes ago, Turkish said:

That kit if fucking awful. It’s all some bollocks about looking like Pompey, which is quite frankly ridiculous 

Agree, it’s a crap kit on its own merits without any reference to the skates.
 

If you changed the royal blue to navy, black, or green then added  a load of pink or any other contrast second colour swirled in that  design it would still be shit. 

[LoyalSaintSO50]

3 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

And I think we need a better response to "You cheating bastards"...

At the moment, "We spy where we want" sounds a bit naff. Any ideas?

Yeah I’d leave the spy shit, about as funny as cancer on both sides.

‘Pride of all Hampshire, we know what we are’  

[Turkish]

26 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Beat West Ham 4-0 at the Dell on opening day 1988 too. Paul Rideout’s debut and he scored two. 

I remember we also beat QPR 5-1 on Colin Clarke’s debut in 1986. He was our big money signing after the Mexico World Cup and scored a hatrick on his debut. Remember when we signed him it was front page of the echo, we’d spent £400k which was mega money for us in those days 

[Appy]

9 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

And I think we need a better response to "You cheating bastards"...

At the moment, "We spy where we want" sounds a bit naff. Any ideas?

Agreed. 
 

We Spy when we want doesn’t really work when we got punted out of the playoffs and deducted points. 

[Window Cleaner]

27 minutes ago, Appy said:

Agreed. 
 

We Spy when we want doesn’t really work when we got punted out of the playoffs and deducted points. 

However, "You only win when you're spying" may be heard sooner or later.

[Midfield_General]

29 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I remember we also beat QPR 5-1 on Colin Clarke’s debut in 1986. He was our big money signing after the Mexico World Cup and scored a hatrick on his debut. Remember when we signed him it was front page of the echo, we’d spent £400k which was mega money for us in those days 

My first ever Saints game, and my first Saints hero. I thought it would be like that every week, so in many ways I’ve got Colin Clarke to blame for the lifetime of disappointment which followed

[Turkish]

7 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

My first ever Saints game, and my first Saints hero. I thought it would be like that every week, so in many ways I’ve got Colin Clarke to blame for the lifetime of disappointment which followed

For me it was Steve Moran and then CC. I remember watching him score in the World Cup and saying to my dad Saints should sign him. My dad used to work for the echo and back then I’d wait for him on the doorstep every night to get home from work, he always used to have a copy of the echo under his arm when he walked up from the bus stop. The day we signed Colin Clarke he said to me as he walked up the path to our house “Saints have signed your mate” and tossed the echo headline was “Saints sign Clarke for £400k” obviously back then there was no social media, no rumours so you found out about signings when they happened amd they were massive news. what a time to be a kid 

Edited 19 hours ago by Turkish

[SW5 SAINT]

11 minutes ago, Turkish said:

For me it was Steve Moran and then CC. I remember watching him score in the World Cup and saying to my dad Saints should sign him. My dad used to work for the echo and back then I’d wait for him on the doorstep every night to get home from work, he always used to have a copy of the echo under his arm when he walked up from the bus stop. The day we signed Colin Clarke he said to me as he walked up the path to our house “Saints have signed your mate” and tossed the echo headline was “Saints sign Clarke for £400k” obviously back then there was no social media, no rumours so you found out about signings when they happened amd they were massive news. what a time to be a kid 

I always remember I worked( navy) with these gobby Man U fans at Yeovilton in the 80’s . They very kindly took me up to Old Trafford with them anticipating a routine United win. Come a quarter to five following two Colin Clarke goals I was seriously worried about having to make my own way back to Somerset….

[Challenger]

1 hour ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

And I think we need a better response to "You cheating bastards"...

At the moment, "We spy where we want" sounds a bit naff. Any ideas?

Yeah, ram their words down their throats by having a team that can beat them rather than one that gift wraps a win for them.

[Charlie Wayman]

Imagine if THB leaves and we fail to recruit another CB….. Captain Jack Crap and Wood as our starting line-up 🤐

Aside from that the whole back four were utter DS today, I worry about Bree he didn't look half the player of last season. Our right wing was non existent, I can't remember a single run to the byeline. Fellows has his faults but at least he give us a semblance of a right wing.

Flynn was outstanding, surely with his drive and passion he should be captain. Let's hope Jander will be fit for the next match

[saintant]

Obviously we have aspirations to be among the top 2 or to win the Play Off final. It's a tough ask and the season is long. However, we will give ourselves zero chance if we make 2 massive mistakes in games like we did today. Teams challenging for promotion do not gift 2 chances from such basic errors. Unfortunately, if we persist with Jack Stephens those errors will come regularly,  it's nothing new because we've seen it countless times and there is nothing to suggest his basic mistakes won't keep on happening. (I get that Manning was also at fault big time for the second goal but Stephens covering run was woeful)

Wood finished last season as a strong partner for THB yet Stephens walks straight back in to the side today. Wood may or may not be good enough - if he's not we'll need to sign a centre back to partner THB assuming he stays. If THB goes we need to sign two CBs.

Stephens is ok as 3rd choice with limited game time - as a starter he is a liability we cannot afford.

Today wasn't all his fault but he is the weakest link and Tonda needs to fix that.

Edited 18 hours ago by saintant

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

15 minutes ago, saintant said:

Obviously we have aspirations to be among the top 2 or to win the Play Off final. It's a tough ask and the season is long. However, we will give ourselves zero chance if we make 2 massive mistakes in games like we did today. Teams challenging for promotion do not gift 2 chances from such basic errors. Unfortunately, if we persist with Jack Stephens those errors will come regularly,  it's nothing new because we've seen it countless times and there is nothing to suggest his basic mistakes won't keep on happening. (I get that Manning was also at fault big time for the second goal but Stephens covering run was woeful)

Wood finished last season as a strong partner for THB yet Stephens walks straight back in to the side today. Wood may or may not be good enough - if he's not we'll need to sign a centre back to partner THB assuming he stays. If THB goes we need to sign two CBs.

Stephens is ok as 3rd choice with limited game time - as a starter he is a liability we cannot afford.

Today wasn't all his fault but he is the weakest link and Tonda needs to fix that.

We haven't got. hope in hell of making the top 2 and I honestly think that if if the playoffs hadn't been expanded we wouldn't make them. If we do get in it'll be in 8th place.
We got a point at Watford last season, this year we got nothing so that's us 5pts down on last season already.

[hypochondriac]

29 minutes ago, Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd said:

We haven't got. hope in hell of making the top 2 and I honestly think that if if the playoffs hadn't been expanded we wouldn't make them. If we do get in it'll be in 8th place.
We got a point at Watford last season, this year we got nothing so that's us 5pts down on last season already.

Good opportunity to put things right next Saturday as we lost to stoke at home last year.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Late to the table and didn’t get to see the game unfortunately due to other commitments, but I called it right - didn’t think we’d win that. Why? Historical data on season starts said so. Plus the pre-season games didn’t increase in quality to high enough level and the performances were meh. Whoever put together the pre-season programme needs sacking IMO. Despite the squad ending last season on a high somehow that impetus was lost over the summer. The squad has been weakened once again rather than improved and the weakest players are still plying their shit trade - Stephens, Manning, Edozie, BBD. Having Stephens and Manning in defence invites the pass, pass, pass, lose the ball bollox that loses us games.

Having said all that, there’s a long way to go and there’s every opportunity to improve. But Spors needs to act fast to sort the big holes left by Stewart and Charles.

[St. Ciervo]

We should have sent this new striker up to spy. He was invisible on the pitch.

[Patches O Houlihan]

11 hours ago, LaptopSaint said:

That’s cool. I don’t want to win the league. I want to beat Middlesbrough in the play off final at Wembley. 

10-0

[StrangelyBrown]

This one was on Tonda for me. The 1st half was very poor indeed and he was slow to rectify the glaring issues.

I've said all I need to say about Stephens every year for a long time. The fact that he's still at the club is unbelievable - he should have gone years ago, but somehow survives. His selection and therefore his mistakes is on Tonda.

Please no more Leo as a 10 (Tonda mistake number 2) - he was awful and that was nothing to do with him getting clattered. Leo just doesn't have the vision for a 10 role and ended up holding on to the ball way too long any time he got it. Azaz made an enormous difference when he came on and showed what is needed from a 10.

Tonda's mistake number 3. Dobbin isnt ready for a starting position, he doesn't know what players around him are going to do yet and most worryingly plays a lot like Cameron Archer. This was obvious from the Colchester game.

Tonda's mistake number 4. The cameo subs at the end were a complete waste of time and sucked our momentum out of that game - BBD is shit that is clear enough for anyone to see - no need to prove it again.

A lot for Tonda to sort out in a week, but firstly he needs to stop trying to be a clever dick - his "tactical genius" royally fucked up the 1st half.

[BotleySaint]

Still don't understand why Stephens let the guy run unopposed till the last moment for their second goal. What was he thinking?

Crossing was also poor all round. Hopefully just finding their range.

Lots of slick play in the second half, especially when Azaz came on. There is hope, it's only 1 game.

[tdmickey3]

31 minutes ago, BotleySaint said:

Still don't understand why Stephens let the guy run unopposed till the last moment for their second goal. What was he thinking?  He wasn't 

Crossing was also poor all round. Hopefully just finding their range.

Lots of slick play in the second half, especially when Azaz came on. There is hope, it's only 1 game.

 

[Saint Garrett]

Bit of a shocker in all honesty. 

We were ok up until Scienza was assaulted, and then they seemed to push up the pitch. 2 shockers from Stephens sadly, left us with too much to do. Too much messing around with the team in my opinion, and desperately missed Jander in the middle, Bragg is a good prospect, but it's so rare he does anything apart from pass it backwards and sideways and isn't strong enough yet to hold his own in there. Ironically, one o the very few times he passed forward we scored from it!

We all know you can't give any team in this league 2 goal head start. I thought we would score an equaliser in that last 20 mins or so, but Mubama didn't really offer anything when Larin went off, hopefully he improves a lot - expect he'll get his first start against WH in the cup, and hopefully he'll make a better impression against his other old team next weekend.

Just seemed to have a real lack of movement, and not really sure why we started with Leo in the middle but such is life. After the end of last season, a win here would have been huge, now we're starting on a bunch of negatives. We really need to get a result against Stoke.

We really need to get caught up on these 4 points as quickly as possible, or it will start playing in their heads if it isn't already.

[Dan Johnson]

Gave myself a few days to reflect before assessing the game. 

Its a bad result, but I think the result was worse than the performance. 3-4 Mistakes have cost us, Stephens for their first goal, Manning\Stephens for their 2nd goal, Stephens should come across much much earlier but seems to give him the space he runs into, Stephens and Harwood-Bellis both fluff guilt edge opportunities to score.

We were well in control until their first goal, and second half we dominated but failed to push home the advantage. I think the heat plays into our lack of intensity at times, it felt very similar to some of the games during the world cup in that respect.

I'm not panicking, it's a frustrating result, but we win that game 8 out of 10 times normally. There's positives, we have Azaz and Jander to come back in, with a few players needing to get another 10% or so of fitness, 3 home games in a row now, a chance to build momentum. 

 

[saintant]

Just watched the highlights back. WTF is Stephens doing for their second goal? He runs back centrally where we already have cover and gives the scorer a free run. He makes a token effort to close him down when it is too late. I'm afraid age and lack of ability has caught up with Capn Jack

[swedish dave]

first game of the season on a warm August day - what did you expect?

After the lessons learned from the pre-season, Tonda started with "the usual suspects" but the side 

looked a bit unbalanced. I like Matsuki, but he's better in midfield (although not taking anything away from 

Bragg and Downes (my MoM).  Scienza is better left side, and Dobbin got no action stranded out there.

 

Second half looked better but we missed good chances that might have been converted on another day.

The game was lost by those suicidal passes, from two of our most experienced /normally reliable players,

with no-one available to back-track ..both goals were almost inevitable.  

Still it was only the first game .with 45 to go, but hopefully Tonda will find a better / alternative formation

for the coming matches.  Larin scored the type of goal that we (hopefully) expect to see more of, but

otherwise we were woefully short of anyone else capable of taking even half-chances. 

 

Reverting to my ..annually-quoted early season comment..  I don't take a serious look at the table, 

until around game 7 or 8.   That's still a long way to go yet, and until Tonda's " fate" has been revealed

it will be hard for anyone to predict, and the critics on this site will continue to moan after every game.

[trousers]

8 minutes ago, swedish dave said:

first game of the season on a warm August day - what did you expect?

A win

[saintant]

10 minutes ago, swedish dave said:

first game of the season on a warm August day - what did you expect?

After the lessons learned from the pre-season, Tonda started with "the usual suspects" but the side 

looked a bit unbalanced. I like Matsuki, but he's better in midfield (although not taking anything away from 

Bragg and Downes (my MoM).  Scienza is better left side, and Dobbin got no action stranded out there.

 

Second half looked better but we missed good chances that might have been converted on another day.

The game was lost by those suicidal passes, from two of our most experienced /normally reliable players,

with no-one available to back-track ..both goals were almost inevitable.  

Still it was only the first game .with 45 to go, but hopefully Tonda will find a better / alternative formation

for the coming matches.  Larin scored the type of goal that we (hopefully) expect to see more of, but

otherwise we were woefully short of anyone else capable of taking even half-chances. 

 

Reverting to my ..annually-quoted early season comment..  I don't take a serious look at the table, 

until around game 7 or 8.   That's still a long way to go yet, and until Tonda's " fate" has been revealed

it will be hard for anyone to predict, and the critics on this site will continue to moan after every game.

It was warm for both sides and the first game of the season.

You might want to watch the highlights of the 2nd goal - Stephens was available to backtrack but chose to hold his position in the middle despite us having enough cover there. He then decided to try to close the guy down when it was far too late. Horrific defending from an experienced player who should know better.

[FootballMartin]

That was a though one to take. I honestly thought we would’ve flown out the traps, especially with the points deduction. 
 

We didn’t look like we were ready for the season to start. Was that down to not playing good enough opposition over preseason? And weeks playing on slow pitches in Germany?

We need to move on quickly focus on Stoke and hope the boys start a lot faster. The atmosphere will be good The players will need to back it up with a big performance.

I think Tonda has selection headaches, surely Fellows will need to come into the side to get us on the front foot, Leo to play on the left and Azaz in the 10! 
 

 

[Sarnia Cherie]

3 hours ago, BotleySaint said:

Still don't understand why Stephens let the guy run unopposed till the last moment for their second goal. What was he thinking?

Crossing was also poor all round. Hopefully just finding their range.

Lots of slick play in the second half, especially when Azaz came on. There is hope, it's only 1 game.

That's just it. Stephens doesn't think. 

[kjurwi]

Thought Stephens was a decent Championship defender, but this game makes me think he isn't.

 

[tdmickey3]

13 minutes ago, kjurwi said:

Thought Stephens was a decent Championship defender, but this game makes me think he isn't.

 

He certainly isn't good enough for a team who is supposed to be pushing for promotion...

[Window Cleaner]

55 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

He certainly isn't good enough for a team who is supposed to be pushing for promotion...

He's always been error prone and yet he's still in the side season in,season out.

[tdmickey3]

2 minutes ago, Window Cleaner said:

He's always been error prone and yet he's still in the side season in,season out.

Crazy isnt it? but he`s popular apparently so standard of performance doesn't matter 🙄

[Window Cleaner]

2 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Crazy isnt it? but he`s popular apparently so standard of performance doesn't matter 🙄

Can't see how being particularly crap would make you popular, well apart from Skates fans that is.

[Hengistbury Header]

Can’t understand why there hasn’t been more discussion on the departure of our key analyst, Eduard Schmidt last week.

“Southampton and I have mutually agreed to terminate my contract. Comes quicker than one might have expected after what felt like a fairytale for the most part."
 

In the light of our poor set-up against Watford I wonder if his departure made a difference.

Also. Spygate … FA investigation… Key analyst leaves -“quicker than one might have expected “. I know Adam Blackmore says no linkage. Does he know that for definite?