stones, and berahino...

why can Eveton and Brom, just say NO, yet we seem to HOPE to keep hold of players, rather than just saying jog on you big time charlies! it's good that big clubs covet our players but they are OUR players....we need to find a back bone! not a rant just an observation

1) its not the end of transfer window yet. They may still go.

2) they're not OUR players anymore. Move On. Support the ones who are OURS!

Apart from the manager and chairman coming out and saying nobody is leaving (as they have said), what else do you want the club to do?

There is absolutely no difference between the situations of Stones and Berahino to that of Wanyama and Mane. In fact the Stones/Berahino stories have been more emphatic with their transfer requests and the like, and the constant reported bids for their services. Our ones have been speculation.

But anyway - they've said they're not selling either, and we've said we're not selling either. So what are they doing different exactly? Why do we need to find a backbone when we've done nothing different to those two clubs?

And WTF is it with the Everton love-in on this forum.

Some Saints fans on here won't even admit that Wanyama probably wants to leave. Which is just bizarre head in the sand thinking.

The main difference between the Stones/Berahino and Wanyama/Mane situation is that there have been confirmed bids for the former, and huge ones in Stones' case.

Not sure we have received bids, or at least have denied we have publically.

But the interest is obviously there and is more than newspaper trash. Whilst it may not have been totally firmed up, there is no way Wanyama would have behaved like he has nor his camp putting out stories of him telling Koeman he wants to leave without knowing he has somewhere to go.

I Simply meant, if we don't want the tag of "selling" club, maybe we should stop the uncertainty everytime a player of ours is mentioned in the press! well aware if a player wants out they will go. this forum is hilarious, we are Saints fans, i wasnt slating the club, just stating we should be much more solid when it comes to the bigger teams, if you want our players don't insult us, ask the price and pay it.......and don't do it a few days before the end of the transfer window! simples Tcch

I Simply meant, if we don't want the tag of "selling" club, maybe we should stop the uncertainty everytime a player of ours is mentioned in the press! well aware if a player wants out they will go. this forum is hilarious, we are Saints fans, i wasnt slating the club, just stating we should be much more solid when it comes to the bigger teams, if you want our players don't insult us, ask the price and pay it.......and don't do it a few days before the end of the transfer window! simples Tcch

I think that's exactly what we've done? No idea what your point is.

your quie tedoius arent you? S-Clarke in you infinate wisdom (and i'm honestly interested to hear!) how would you handle our transfer policy? or are you just here to dump on peoples posts?

your quie tedoius arent you? S-Clarke in you infinate wisdom (and i'm honestly interested to hear!) how would you handle our transfer policy? or are you just here to dump on peoples posts?

I don't understand your point. The club came out with a clear statement that neither will be sold. In the respect of Mane, there was an official statement released - so we did exactly what Everton and West Brom did.

I don't see why I'm tedious, there are plenty more idiots around this place just waiting in the shadows to jump on the bad times.

How would I handle our transfer policy? In exactly the way we have done. The 2 sales we've made this summer of Morgan and Clyne were kind of expected by everyone. Morgan had grown to a level where he was too good for us, he'd outgrown us. He'd given us 7 odd years and deserved his move to a big club, I don't begrudge him or the club on that transfer. Clyne seemingly made it clear that he wanted to go to Liverpool. The club could have said ''no, we're not letting you go'' in the knowledge that he wouldn't sign a new contract, so they'd lose a key play for nothing. It was a decision made in the best interests of the club to protect themselves, again, I see no issue with that.

So after all the talks of meltdowns and people talking as if we are selling players every day, we've lost 2. Just 2. Which most people expected us to lose. People are seemingly still caught up in last summers shenanigans a little, last season caught a few people by surprise so they went quiet. This start is now a perfect opportunity for them to raise their heads and continue where they left off from last summer, even though they were proven totally wrong.

The first thing to point out is that west brom have been playing without Berahino , so have they handled it particularly well . How many points would they have had he been playing and are their message boards going into meltdown.

Secondly if both their players stay against their will. What do they do come Weds ? I'm sure both have an eye on the euros , so they knuckle down and stay in Woys thoughts , throwing their toys out of the pram, refusing to play or playing badly and they can kiss goodbye to England next summer. Are our two in the same boat , will their national teams drop them, is there an Africian cup next summer?

Trying to second guess what we should do or comparing us to others is pointless , every situation is different. If Victor played for Everton and stones for us, Victor would have had a tummy upset today and Stones would be facing Norwich tomorrow . IMO

your quie tedoius arent you? S-Clarke in you infinate wisdom (and i'm honestly interested to hear!) how would you handle our transfer policy? or are you just here to dump on peoples posts?

I would make a comment, in public, that they are not for sale. Oh, wait. That's what we did.

Some Saints fans on here won't even admit that Wanyama probably wants to leave. Which is just bizarre head in the sand thinking.

The main difference between the Stones/Berahino and Wanyama/Mane situation is that there have been confirmed bids for the former, and huge ones in Stones' case.

 

Not sure we have received bids, or at least have denied we have publically.

 

But the interest is obviously there and is more than newspaper trash. Whilst it may not have been totally firmed up, there is no way Wanyama would have behaved like he has nor his camp putting out stories of him telling Koeman he wants to leave without knowing he has somewhere to go.

Why? We don't know for certain. There has been speculation in both directions but the vast majority on here do not know what the truth is. Unless someone posted it on Twitter, in which case, it must be true.

Why? We don't know for certain. There has been speculation in both directions but the vast majority on here do not know what the truth is. Unless someone posted it on Twitter, in which case, it must be true.

Do you not think though that *something* is not right between him and Saints?

Based on available info it is fair to deduce that things are not ideal, surely?

The players aren't fans, they're employees. Of course they want a payrise and play for a more prestigious club. A club of our size (as with Everton/wba/stoke etc) tred a very fine line.

Let player go = upset fans at lack of ambition

Say no = risk a tantrum from the player, dip in form, transfer request = upset fans

Think of this, you are at work, you work your butt off and then you find out management kiboshed your chance to double your pay with another firm. Reckon you'd be best pleased?

your quie tedoius arent you? S-Clarke in you infinate wisdom (and i'm honestly interested to hear!) how would you handle our transfer policy? or are you just here to dump on peoples posts?

Did you and Roger go to the same school of grammar?

Did Pulis not say Berahino may still leave? It's all well and good keeping him, but imo the lad has a bad attitude anyway, I respect how WBA have handled it. But realistically, is he going to perform to his best abilities if he stays?

I think they may still sell, but it would make him learn a lesson by letting him rot in the reserves.

It never seems to get mentioned, but with cases like Wanyama, it must have a negative impact on squad morale. In my mind he's essentially putting down his own teammates and believing he is better than them. It surely must impact their opinions on him. However, I think we do let our players go too easily.I would love Les -Reed to fully explain how he thinks our transfer strategy will lead us to the Champions League. It's simply not sustainable. If we're going to continue operating like we do, Les needs to cut out the bull****. We're a well run business, but in footballing terms nothing more than a stepping stone.

It may also be worth getting an electrician out on monday to fix the faulty connection in the black box so we can make some decent signings.

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

The players aren't fans, they're employees. Of course they want a payrise and play for a more prestigious club. A club of our size (as with Everton/wba/stoke etc) tred a very fine line.

 

Let player go = upset fans at lack of ambition

Say no = risk a tantrum from the player, dip in form, transfer request = upset fans

 

Think of this, you are at work, you work your butt off and then you find out management kiboshed your chance to double your pay with another firm. Reckon you'd be best pleased?

In you work / new job analogy you say the management kiboshed your chance to double your pay. using the same analogy Wanyama i being told "sure you are free to go, give me your letter of notice of intention to leave. Oh by the way we require you to work out your notice period of errr 2 years, thanks." Alos we are arent interested in your new company buying out your notice period.

That doesn't work though in practise. We all know the rules of the game for normal jobs

, that's why you sign a contract. Football players should know the rules of their job too - vast vast sums of money, doing something you love, adored my millions etc - and you know that you sign a defined period contract, which could mean you can't theoretically leave until it's over. It'll be a cold day in hell before I start to feel sorry for these childish multimillionaires crying foul from their palaces. If they want the same rules as us - fine go get a mundane office job and worry about trying to pay the mortgage.

H

Some Saints fans on here won't even admit that Wanyama probably wants to leave. Which is just bizarre head in the sand thinking.

 

The main difference between the Stones/Berahino and Wanyama/Mane situation is that there have been confirmed bids for the former, and huge ones in Stones' case.

 

Not sure we have received bids, or at least have denied we have publically.

 

But the interest is obviously there and is more than newspaper trash. Whilst it may not have been totally firmed up, there is no way Wanyama would have behaved like he has nor his camp putting out stories of him telling Koeman he wants to leave without knowing he has somewhere to go.

Saint Charlie You are obviously a well informed person and I notice your use of the word probably.

My son wants to play for Manchester United, he wants to play in Champions League, every players wants to aspire to the very top in their profession.

Are they happen at Southampton. Yes very happy both of them, although very frustrated with the teams start to the season.

Don't jump onto Media speculation, just like everyone else. You are also part of the problem, because you allow shi t to stick.

Get your head out of the sand and don't regurgitate speculation.

It doesn't help the team you love.

H

 

Saint Charlie You are obviously a well informed person and I notice your use of the word probably.

 

My son wants to play for Manchester United, he wants to play in Champions League, every players wants to aspire to the very top in their profession.

 

Are they happen at Southampton. Yes very happy both of them, although very frustrated with the teams start to the season.

 

Don't jump onto Media speculation, just like everyone else. You are also part of the problem, because you allow shi t to stick.

 

Get your head out of the sand and don't regurgitate speculation.

 

It doesn't help the team you love.

Trouble is most of us assume because it has been in the press, in one paper or the other, they assume it to be true, he wants to leave. No doubt Spurs would love to have him and agents trying to make a few bob are no doubt trying to do just that. That though is a world away from a player saying he wants to leave without offering a reason. What advantage would he get from going to Spurs......oh of course they can possibly give him more money. (Saints apparently are trying to do that anyway) The club have said there will be no more personnel leaving. So spurs would have to offer silly money for it to happen and even then Wanyama would have to agree and make a public statement which so far he has not made.

I think the club will stick to their guns as they did with Spider......although no doubt the vultures will be around next window and he will be off. Although I doubt it will be to Spurs.........

Long length of contract left for Stones and Berahino makes it easy for their clubs to take a hard stance. But they both will go at some point - hope we then start slagging their clubs for being selling clubs.

They'll both be gone this time next year.

every club is a selling club - the important thing is that at some point you need to draw the line. We've had a ropey start but we have just lost 50% of last seasons defence and with morgan went the control and orchestration he brought. On top of that bertrand and forster are missing - which is 80% of last seasons back 5. Furthermore clasie has been missing and we are waiting on romeo and vic to form an understanding. I'm not surprised we are struggling to find last seasons fluency.

as has been said before we need to judge the ambitions and activity of the club once the window is shut but the reality of supporting any team is that players move on to advance their careers - just like we do in our jobs. none of us know what is really going on behind the scenes, including the media, so we have to choose to believe, question or dismiss all the speculation that the journos churn out to earn their money.

Apart from the manager and chairman coming out and saying nobody is leaving (as they have said), what else do you want the club to do?

Errr....stop selling decent players and replacing them with inferior quality ones???

They'll both be gone this time next year.

Indeed. once they approach the last year of their contracts, bye bye.

Mane and Wanyama will both be off next season if not sooner! people need to realize this. Put yourself in there shoes your witnessing decent players leaving for bigger clubs playing alongside better players and the ultimate pull of triple your wages it's a no brainer!

The questions I would ask this board:

The thing that has annoyed me a bit this season is we are bringing in a decent amount of income through player sales but have chosen to replace players like Clyne with cheap alternatives why the hell have we signed this cuco lad?

Why have we signed juanmi? if we are not even going to give him a run out?

Why do we continue to field Ward-Prowse / Davis you win matches by goals when was the last time these two hit the back off the net?

Why are we playing this long ball hoof it up front to Pelle nonsense? it's obviously we need another striker! we rely on him far to much didn't we realize this last season?

As a team we are massively lacking creativity at the moment, We have a player capable of adding a killer ball, now a few of you may shoot me down for this, but I think he should be given a few games that player is Gaston Ramirez. He is capable of moments of magic however nobody seems to give the man a decent run out?

Can't we put Seager up top for a cup game? see how he performs?

I wish Koeman would come out with a statement. Why can't we be as strong as West Brom and Everton. So obvious we want to sell them. Why oh why

I wish Koeman would come out with a statement. Why can't we be as strong as West Brom and Everton. So obvious we want to sell them. Why oh why

Irony?

I wish Koeman would come out with a statement. Why can't we be as strong as West Brom and Everton. So obvious we want to sell them. Why oh why

Would you like to revise your position?

With hindsight?

I have more respect and feel my faith in Ron and Les is vindicated.

Errr....stop selling decent players and replacing them with inferior quality ones???

Like we did last summer? Hilarious people still judge every player and the team after 3 games.

Would you like to revise your position?

 

With hindsight?

 

I have more respect and feel my faith in Ron and Les is vindicated.

Or possibly I was mocking? I haven't bed wet since an all day session a few years back

Errr....stop selling decent players and replacing them with inferior quality ones???

We sold Morgan because he had become too good for our level, and we got a very good price for him. We can't spend the full selling price on another player of equal quality, because that player would also be too good for our level and would more than likely be wanted by CL clubs who can pay a damn-sight more than we can, so he would not sign for us anyway.

So of course we sign cheaper players of lesser quality, in the hope that we can get a few good years out of them and maybe make a large profit if they then go on to make a move to a CL club who can pay a damn-sight more than we can. With the stranglehold that the big four/six clubs now have thanks to the FFP rules, that is the best that a club like ours can hope for.

Errr....stop selling decent players and replacing them with inferior quality ones???

Who would you have replaced Morgan with?

Apart from the manager and chairman coming out and saying nobody is leaving (as they have said), what else do you want the club to do?

The point being made was that the Manager's and Chairmans statement was made AFTER Morgan and Clyne had been sold, and Toby had not been persuaded to stay

Now, IMHO, if that statement had been made BEFORE anyone had departed, it may have had some substance

Stones and Berahino were, and are under CONTRACT to their respective Clubs ................... So were Clyne and Schneiderlin

Football is a farce, the Transfer window should end on the Eve of the first Matches of the season, and there should be NO January Sales

Mane and Wanyama will both be off next season if not sooner! people need to realize this. Put yourself in there shoes your witnessing decent players leaving for bigger clubs playing alongside better players and the ultimate pull of triple your wages it's a no brainer!

 

The questions I would ask this board:

 

The thing that has annoyed me a bit this season is we are bringing in a decent amount of income through player sales but have chosen to replace players like Clyne with cheap alternatives why the hell have we signed this cuco lad?

 

Why have we signed juanmi? if we are not even going to give him a run out?

 

Why do we continue to field Ward-Prowse / Davis you win matches by goals when was the last time these two hit the back off the net?

 

Why are we playing this long ball hoof it up front to Pelle nonsense? it's obviously we need another striker! we rely on him far to much didn't we realize this last season?

 

As a team we are massively lacking creativity at the moment, We have a player capable of adding a killer ball, now a few of you may shoot me down for this, but I think he should be given a few games that player is Gaston Ramirez. He is capable of moments of magic however nobody seems to give the man a decent run out?

 

Can't we put Seager up top for a cup game? see how he performs?

One or two good points with the exception of Gaston who is clearly not good enough. Also he has had plenty of 'runs' in the team and still proved to be sub standard. He also seems to 'cry off' with a mirriad of 'soft' injuries.

Try watching the player rather than the match for a few minutes see why they are falling below required standards and you will quickly see why he is no longer in the squad.....

Mind you I hVe to admit before Norwich if Koeman had been a player he might have been 'dropped' his decision making was very suspect and almost Gazzanigaesque! ;-))

Or possibly I was mocking? I haven't bed wet since an all day session a few years back

All day session of what?

So in your world everyone would play out their contracts and leave on a free?

Oh FFS dry your eyes princess!

Some Saints fans on here won't even admit that Wanyama probably wants to leave. Which is just bizarre head in the sand thinking.

 

The main difference between the Stones/Berahino and Wanyama/Mane situation is that there have been confirmed bids for the former, and huge ones in Stones' case.

 

Not sure we have received bids, or at least have denied we have publically.

 

But the interest is obviously there and is more than newspaper trash. Whilst it may not have been totally firmed up, there is no way Wanyama would have behaved like he has nor his camp putting out stories of him telling Koeman he wants to leave without knowing he has somewhere to go.

There is a big difference between admitting that a player wants to leave and believing every bit of gossip spouted in the media. How many times have we heard that X wants to go and that Y wants to buy him only to find out that X doesn't want to go and Y haven't made a bid? If you recall, Monk (a decent ITK forum member) said that these rumours had come directly from Spurs to start with. I prefer to believe what our club tells us and at the point when they came out and said he wanted out, that is when I believed it. Frankly there is no point, IMHO, of believing anything until a player actually arrives or departs as there is so much disinformation flying about. If it isn't tough enough being a football manager as it is, trying to keep your club in the gravy train, it must be sole destroying having to deal with these stupid transfer windows and all the media b*ll*x twice a year.

Mane and Wanyama will both be off next season if not sooner! people need to realize this. Put yourself in there shoes your witnessing decent players leaving for bigger clubs playing alongside better players and the ultimate pull of triple your wages it's a no brainer!

 

The questions I would ask this board:

 

The thing that has annoyed me a bit this season is we are bringing in a decent amount of income through player sales but have chosen to replace players like Clyne with cheap alternatives why the hell have we signed this cuco lad?

 

Why have we signed juanmi? if we are not even going to give him a run out?

 

Why do we continue to field Ward-Prowse / Davis you win matches by goals when was the last time these two hit the back off the net?

 

Why are we playing this long ball hoof it up front to Pelle nonsense? it's obviously we need another striker! we rely on him far to much didn't we realize this last season?

 

As a team we are massively lacking creativity at the moment, We have a player capable of adding a killer ball, now a few of you may shoot me down for this, but I think he should be given a few games that player is Gaston Ramirez. He is capable of moments of magic however nobody seems to give the man a decent run out?

 

Can't we put Seager up top for a cup game? see how he performs?

I think most people do know that Mane and Wanyama will leave eventually. It is not likely that we will sign like for like as the players moving on are to top 4 clubs. We need to find decent players who the top 4 clubs haven't sussed yet. The term cheap alternative actually makes perfect sense. Why buy a more expensive alternative if you can replace more cheaply (ie Bertrand)? I am sure Juanmi will get his chance. If you only put out a side who scored goals you wouldn't have many players on the pitch. JWP and Davis are both Premiership quality footballers. Agree with the long ball. As for strikers - Pelle, JRod, Long, there are three for a start. Do you need any more if you only play one up top? I think we do have creativity. What was lacking was confidence but we showed against a poor Norwich what we can do, just need more self belief and Clasie and Bertrand fit.

Mane and Wanyama will both be off next season if not sooner! people need to realize this. Put yourself in there shoes your witnessing decent players leaving for bigger clubs playing alongside better players and the ultimate pull of triple your wages it's a no brainer!

 

The questions I would ask this board:

 

The thing that has annoyed me a bit this season is we are bringing in a decent amount of income through player sales but have chosen to replace players like Clyne with cheap alternatives why the hell have we signed this cuco lad?

 

Why have we signed juanmi? if we are not even going to give him a run out?

 

Why do we continue to field Ward-Prowse / Davis you win matches by goals when was the last time these two hit the back off the net?

 

Why are we playing this long ball hoof it up front to Pelle nonsense? it's obviously we need another striker! we rely on him far to much didn't we realize this last season?

 

As a team we are massively lacking creativity at the moment, We have a player capable of adding a killer ball, now a few of you may shoot me down for this, but I think he should be given a few games that player is Gaston Ramirez. He is capable of moments of magic however nobody seems to give the man a decent run out?

 

Can't we put Seager up top for a cup game? see how he performs?

Well to answer your questions from my POV...

1) Not all alternatives have been cheap - Van Dijk and Clasie I wouldn't class as cheap for example. Also Cedric is the Clyne replacement not Cuco who was signed to add squad depth. I'd also add it's not like Clyne and Morgan cost a lot when we brought them either - it's about getting the right players regardless of the price.

2) Again we've added Juanmi to increase squad depth - it's a long season with potential for injuries and suspensions let alone fatigue and we were probably hoping to be in Europe for longer. He will get his chance though it probably doesn't help that the competetion for his place mainly seems to be our best player (Mane).

3) Davis and Ward Prowse are included as they provide other abilities than just goals - link up play and dead ball expertise for example. While goals would be welcome that is not their primary concern unlike with say Pelle, JRod or Mane.

4) The hoof ball seems to have occured mainly because we weren't confident of our wing play with no Clyne or Bertrand which is where much of our attacking prowess came from last season plus the new players not gelling yet. Yes it was a bad idea to go direct all the time and I agree Pelle could do with some help but he does a good job as a target man. My guess is we would see a change of tactics if he was out for any length of time. Likely with JRod and/or Long playing as the main striker(s) instead.

5) Ramirez may have the techincal skills to be the type of creative player you are looking for but quite frankly hasn't been able to actually produce the goods often enough when called upon. He may not have had many chances here to impress but he didn't look great at Hull either and I can't even remember him doing anything particularly special at international level either. If anything Tadic needs to be given more free reign to create rather than be stuck on the wing. His link up play with Pelle is especially good.

6) Agreed that i'd like to see Seager and a couple of the other youngsters get a run out in some games but Koeman looks set on playing the best team he can where possible to give us the best chance of winning. Considering how poorly some other teams/managers treat the cups you have to respect that mentality.

Just my point of view but it always seems to me that there is a pretty simple explanation for most of these things.

Seager is probably an exception in that his style is completely unsuited to the club's style, and making him play as "Pelle light" isn't going to play to his strengths or ours - he's a finisher with a bit of link play playing back to goal, but much better as a finisher than having to drop off into midfield, and he'd probably be much better off at another club with a more suited style. He's a Charlie Austin type of player and just doesn't fit when played up top in the way Saints want to play. Sam McQueen looks much more comfortable in the first team formation as an attacking wide player than Seager in what is nominally his position.

This is the problem with re-working strikers into supporting attacking midfielder roles - some of them are strikers due to their quick movement over a short distance, ability to control or divert a touch into the net when off-balance, and anticipation and quick thinking in finishing, not their ability to get their head up, shoot from range, run at defenders or play accurate passes.

WBA still facing problems with Berahino.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/10/17/west-brom-put-overweight-saido-berahino-on-special-training-regi/

WBA still facing problems with Berahino.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/10/17/west-brom-put-overweight-saido-berahino-on-special-training-regi/

West Brom must wish they got shot of him when someone would give them 20m a perfect example of the risks of refusing to sell a player!

West Brom must wish they got shot of him when someone would give them 20m a perfect example of the risks of refusing to sell a player!

Very true.

As he's 23, will WBA lose him for nothing next summer? Or will they get compensation?

It's alright making him stay but it backfires.

West Brom lost the transfer fee but more importantly they ended up with a demotivated player for the last 18 months. Even when fit they benched him a lot. I think this was all mishandled by both sides and neither have benefitted.

Shows we were lucky that our players at least buckled down and tried which is a credit to them.

West Brom must wish they got shot of him when someone would give them 20m a perfect example of the risks of refusing to sell a player!

Very much the other side of the "Why can't we just force all the want away players to stay" debate. Westbrom haven't benefited from their hardline stance at all. Keeping a talented want away player isn't automatically the best choice.

WBA still facing problems with Berahino.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/10/17/west-brom-put-overweight-saido-berahino-on-special-training-regi/

I'd still offer them 5-10m for him in January

I'd still offer them 5-10m for him in January

Probably on the low/mid end £5-7m of that range - Would Everton or West Ham be more appealing to him? I can't imagine City, UTD, Arse, Chelsea, Liverpool or Tottenham (Maybe?) would touch him.

I suppose Everton could offer 70/75k per week - something i doubt we would.

why on earth would anyone want to touch him after his antics? Bonkers!