Saints 1 Sunderland 1 Match Reaction

Bertrand returning will make a big difference. As he and Forster did last year. Couple of signings to come in, too. Poor performance, though flashes of good play, not worried just yet.

Did'nt see the whole game but thought Targett had a good match

Very similar to Sunderland last season

Diamond this, diamond that, there is not a single difference between a diamond and a 4-3-3. Not one. In fact we are playing the exact same way we did under Poch, the players' average position and heat maps prove this.

The problem is lack of quality, we create chances, far more than Watford and Sunderland and not much less than Man Utd but can't hit a barn door and then get undone by individual mistakes at the back. We miss Mané basically, he was our entire attack.

Youv'e been watching too much star trek, mate. Heat signatures tell you where there is life. They don't tell you what they are doing. Today, for instance, they were standing in one place generating a heat signature while wondering what the hell to do if a ball came along. Beam me up Spotty!

Jose was ****, nothing wrong with the formation at all, we created chances and were let down by offside calls and poor finishing.

You're all making ridiculous claims and I don't know how some of you function when you're in such a state of permanent distress over our football club.

Haha, this.

And at the start of last season we had two points from three matches against bottom half teams.

Lack of goals is a worry but it's not because of the diamond, it's because we don't have a fit, clinical striker.

Lots of people booing today. I think they are stupid babies

Did'nt see the whole game but thought Targett had a good match

Very similar to Sunderland last season

Targett wasn't terrible but he didn't get forward enough and when he did he was caught up-field. Bertrand will be a massive bonus for the next game.

Fans have turned on Puel already.

We had the exact same run of results after three games last season.

We are putting the ball about better, and we have good possession, and our passing has improved somewhat since the awful passing from the opener. However we are obviously lacking someone to put the goals away.

If we get someone able to do that, or someone finds some form then we'll be fine. The season for us always takes a little time to get started proper as these days we have so many internationals, and we always seem to have important players coming in late in the window. Add in the fact we have a new manager and we all need to remember that it will take a little bit of time for us to get there.

There's no need to panic at all yet, we can see what needs to happen and if you look objectively, you can see that we have a solid base to the team, the players just need some confidence and we just need to start delivery the goods a bit more.

Chuffed for Rodriguez, regardless of the nature of the goal, hopefully that can help spur him on.

For perspective last seasons first three game.

Newcastle (a) 2-2

Everton (h) 0-3

Watford (a) 0-0

A lot to work on for Puel no doubt, but let's not pretend we came out all guns blazing last season and this seasons bad start is a huge turnaround.

Right, I need to get a few things off my chest.

Firstly, anyone who says the following comments can go suck a fat one;

"We scored"

Yes, we did. A complete and utterly speculatively crap goal with the aid of some inept goalkeeping. Please note, we did not score through any sort of collective excellent team football, it was a fluke. And that, my friends, is why so many people are referring to us as toothless.

"We started well"

Whoopey-****1ng do. That counts for sh1t all, as a lot of teams, poor and good come out of the traps flying. The reality of the game sets in at around fifteen minutes and soon enough, the other team will start to discover your weak points and limitations... and they did.

"We rallied at then end"

Whoopey-double-****ing do. For a team to only start playing with any intensity when they're losing is a disgrace anyway. You should start and do you best to maintain control of a game, not try and wrestle it back desperately because you're now losing with 10 minutes to go.

"We started like this last year"

That is not an excuse. At all.

"We're signing an attacking midfielder - that'll help with the creativity"

No it won't. Firstly, if it does, what happens when said player, your new focal point (1) has a bad stretch of form (2) gets injured or suspended or (3) f()cks off to Africa for 2 months? You revert to type, and type isn't very pretty or effective.

Irrespective, signing an attacking midfielder won't magically rectify our problems, they're far more deep-rooted than that and here's why; channelling the entirety of your play and hope on one player is a recipe for disaster. Football is a team game, and it's a collective effort that usurps a few individual brilliance. Which leads me onto the next talking point...

The Diamond.

F()ck off with this diamond ********, please. If that's what we've been practising for 3-4 months than what an absolute waste of time because (1) We don't have the personnel for it (2) The players clearly don't buy into it. What is the definition of insanity again?

Playing this formation is almost a guaranteed way to murder your own Premier League status. Not only is it ineffective at best, we don't have the players for it and it enables the opposition to slice through our midfield with ease, bypassing the reverse-speed Schneiderlin and any lightweight partner he's picked alongside to have a run directly at our defence.

Ah, our defence. I don't think I've ever seen the poor sods make so many 'last ditch' challenges and panicked clearances in the space of three games before. So, we could do with a proper unit in midfield to protect the back four IMHO. I just hope we don't waste it on 2 attacking midfielders when we're well stocked with good ones who are being criminally misused.

The body language of the team says it all, really - I hope I'm not the only one who has seen things in the past few games and saw this.

So what do we do?

Firstly, change the formation. We're getting murdered by terrible teams through this complete incompetence. If Watford or Sunderland were half-decent, we'd have been on the end of a hammering by now.

So, basics. Assess the players we have and their type. Pick a formation to suit and train in that formation. Assess the weak areas, and invest in the areas required. When everyone knows what they're doing individually and collectively as a formation, you can bring in a strategy, patterning of play, styles of football. Lastly, you can practice set pieces. Get the basics right first though.

I can almost guarantee that our potency will increase tenfold with just doing the above and it's such a workable solution.

Do not pigeon-hole Hojberg into a defensive midfield role because Romeu is inept at it, it nullifies Hojberg's game. Ditch Romeu and get a proper DM who offers real protection, not slow-mo air kicking and laborious sideways passing. Sorry Oriel, either you somehow get better at what you're doing or need to be utilised differently.

Don't just get a DM though, get Boufal and get cover elsewhere. We've got a bloody long, arduous season ahead with the potential for 50-60 games and we've got a lightweight, threadbare squad with a few untested youngsters waiting in the wings.

We're at the very least owed a competitive top-half squad for this season after all the sales and promises. Oh, and Les - don't say our midfield options are the envy of the country unless you're getting Schneiderlin back alongside Boufal.

And stop making w4nky promo videos.

This could have been our most exciting season in years as Saints fans and it's nothing but a turgid, horrible mess at the moment. I don't blame the players too much as I have to wonder what they're actually thinking about all this.

I'll be OK in an hour... Just needed to vent.

Terrible result. Not liking this manager

I'm not liking him either I have to say. It is early days but I just don't feel positive that he will turn out to be the right appointment. Watford and Sunderland at home are two games you absolutely target/expect wins in and he's p!ssed them both up the wall.

3rd game of the season bunch of wet tampons on here. wait until the team adjusts and Puel brings in players who can play this system effectively...

the irony is most of the melts on here whinging will say Puel is the best thing since sliced bread once we win a couple.

fickle fans.....

I don't blame the manager as such as he's playing a formation that's obviously worked in France but we look bloody terrible. Les reed made a decision to employ a manager that plays a way we don't have the players for and also a system that is cemented within structure of the club and also our transfers have been pretty underwhelming. On the pitch today the players didn't seem to know where they were meant to be and they seemed very frustrated. Long season ahead unless things change.

Jose was ****, nothing wrong with the formation at all, we created chances and were let down by offside calls and poor finishing.

You're all making ridiculous claims and I don't know how some of you function when you're in such a state of permanent distress over our football club.

This...little by little Saints are getting better, the system will take some getting used to... but will come. Dont think the previous system with the current players we have would of produced many more points if any. Whilst watching today I thought it wont be long before all this clicks and we will hammer someone...Of course consistacy will then need to be maintained...

Confused, was busy today so didn't watch or listen but when I got in the first report I saw said thier young keeper got man of the match, then reading most on here we were ****e and the formation didn't work / we had nothing up front, created no chances etc. So how did thier keeper get motm I'd this was the case?

Terrible result. Not liking this manager

The result is the exact same score as the equivalent fixture last year when we played 4-2-3-1 and had Wanyama, Mane and Pelle. The only difference is that we equalised earlier this year and probably deserved it this time whereas the performance in this game under Koeman was worse and we were only saved by a VVD last ditch effort well into injury time.

Not claiming everything is totally rosey but let's remember that we had some serious downturns last year and our performance at home against Sunderland was pants then, probably worse than this one.

My take on the season thus far is that in every game we've had some really good promising spells, which we've largely failed to take advantage of, and some periods where individuals have not done some of the basics well and as a consequence the team play has suffered. Thought Romeu had a shocker today as did Cedric against Watford.

I think the jury's out on the formation at this point as the team are still getting to grips with it. It's a pretty similar system to the one Liverpool played when they got within a Stevie Gerrard slip of the title so let's not dismiss it out of hand.

I would like to remind everyone that at the start (and indeed in the middle) of last season 4-2-3-1 was not exactly setting the world alight for us which is why Ronald felt the need to go to 3 at the back. Granted, it came good in the run in but there are many factors involved in determining the result of a football match and we need to give Puel and the system time.

Fans have turned on Puel already.

No surprise, not outwardly charismatic and was not the big name many wanted the board to appoint. Predictable that people would jump on his back quickly if we didn't start well.

If we are still playing like this after 10-15 games, then I would start getting edgy about whether he should be here.

Poor performance really, first 20 min or so were good, dominated on the pitch and created a few good chances but as soon Sunderland figured out you should give Redmond and Tadic a lot of space it was all over. We got lucky thanks to the keeper but the second half all we did was shooting from distance and created nothing cause we are all trying to go through the middle if the full backs dont go forward.

This system aint never going to work. Højbjerg is a great player on the ball but he also aint the physical powerhouse who covers big distances on the pitch and who covers the gaps the fullbacks leave behind, neither is Davis and when the opponents fullbacks go forward our entire team is all over the place. Austin isnt the striker for this system as well.

And i tried to pay some attention to Puel on the sideline today but has anyone see him instructing players or talking to them or what ever? All i see him doing is raising his arms because of decisions from the ref or i see him staring into oblivion.

Things need to change and fast. If Puel persists on playing this system we need 2 new midfielders otherwise its going to end in tears, im 100% convinced about that now.

3rd game of the season bunch of wet tampons on here. wait until the team adjusts and Puel brings in players who can play this system effectively...

the irony is most of the melts on here whinging will say Puel is the best thing since sliced bread once we win a couple.

 

fickle fans.....

So you can't see that we're bad and very, very unlikely to get better persisting on like this? Bring players in to play the formation? Errrrr, what have we been doing all pre-season? Have we worked on this formation and why are we now into the last 4 days of the window without having the personnel to play this system?

I don't want to write Puel off yet and won't but there's nothing wrong with people who notice that this system simply will not work effectively with the players at his disposal... and whether they're on board with the diamond or not is another matter altogether.

I don't blame the manager as such as he's playing a formation that's obviously worked in France but we look bloody terrible. Les reed made a decision to employ a manager that plays a way we don't have the players for and also a system that is cemented within structure of the club and also our transfers have been pretty underwhelming. On the pitch today the players didn't seem to know where they were meant to be and they seemed very frustrated. Long season ahead unless things change.

This. I thought we had a blueprint, that's what we've all been told so if we did, I'd imagine that'll have to be ripped up if all age groups are now playing this way.

To avoid me reading the excuses after Arsenal and Swansea what we're our results after 4 n 5 games last season?

Well that was dire. Formation just doesn't suit the players we have.

First fifteen minutes was decent with some cute build up play but no cutting edge. We really needed to score during that period of pressure.

Austin was terrible. Looks overweight and completely knackered after our bright opening spell. Offside about 5 times clearly because he doesn't trust himself to beat the defender one on one. Not sure why Puel took so long to haul him off.

Lack of width is worrying and needs rectifying. We also need a forward who can hold the ball up and stretch the defensive line with a bit of pace. Hopefully Boufal when fit can provide a bit of invention.

Pluses were Hojberg who looks a class above and the lack of queue for beers at half time.

Puel needs to learn quickly about this league as its been a poor start. Diamond needs to go.

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Same number of points as this time last season, goal difference better by 1 and 4 places higher in the league. Only a slight improvement but a step in the right direction....

 

We march on

True for half glass full but half glass empty says only 2pts compared to 7 Pts last year from the same fixtures

Improvements needed quick

Don't know really what to think.

All 3 games we have looked good in patches and cr*p in others.

Agree that the final quality isn't there at the moment, it sort of feels that the players just can't get their head around the final 3rd positions.

3 games and we have given away 2 penalties, Jose looked average, cedric has looked average.

Though Pierre, Virg and Davis looked good today, thought all of our forwards wanted it today and I'll be interested in the total shots.

Off to speak to the bar staff of Marrakech now to get their opinion on Boufal and if he will be called up to the afcon.

2 draws and 1 loss, I've seen worst starts.

"Puel, you have been summoned by the board"

 

(I hope).

Contract extension probably.

Would be funny. Do it for the lolz, Les.

There are some huge overreactions in here - even from people who aren't serial over-reactors.

Yes, we should be looking to beat Sunderland and disappointed if we don't, but what we're seeing IMO is role unfamiliarity, not lack of quality. We have very good players all over the pitch but we're missing Pelle's pressing up-front (all the more so if Long doesn't start) - it was much too easy for Sunderland to get out of their own end. And I would MUCH rather see Tadic playing wide. When (if) Boufal arrives we may well see that change, and start to see much more from Hojberg, who went missing when Sunderland reversed our early dominance - he didn't seem to know what part he was supposed to play. I DON'T think we're missing Wanyama that much because Romeu is defending quite well and doing something with the ball when he has it.

Austin needs an early ball but he won't get it as long as the midfield is looking for a square pass rather than a penetrating one, or if Tadic wants to put his foot on the ball and look around while Austin runs offside.

It's ridiculous to turn on Puel when we won't see what he brings until the players settle into their roles. Start judging after ten games, not three FFS.

Just back - propaganda football, was genuinely bored in places. Unless the formation changes he will be gone by Xmas imo, it doesn't suit these players. There is absolutely no point in signing another striker unless the formation changes. I don't want to single him out but Targett is not good enough either defensively or going forward and why the hell didn't JWP take the free-kick near the end.

Oh and just a word on Lee Mason, ****ing awful, although not the reason we didn't win the game.

Redmond looks miles better when not playing up top

 

Why does he always start up top

Possibly the most overused and grating football cliche used not once but twice. I doff my hat to you.

Just got back from the game.

Sorry, Puel is absolutely clueless. The substitution of Tadic was an absolute joke. Why we had to persist with a system that included a defensive midfielder against that sh*te is beyond me.

I don't have any confidence in him.

Formation talk not withstanding, when I think of the summer we've had...

Big Vic. Mane. Pelle. We are easier to play against now.

I'm not liking him either I have to say. It is early days but I just don't feel positive that he will turn out to be the right appointment. Watford and Sunderland at home are two games you absolutely target/expect wins in and he's p!ssed them both up the wall.

And that is the crux of it. Koeman had the confidence of fans and reputation. The summer he arrived we breathed a sigh of relief that at least one thing had gone right. This summer NOTHING has gone right and Puel is useless.

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Possibly the most overused and grating football cliche used not once but twice. I doff my hat to you.

What is your opinion on redmonds place in the side?

It is telling that so many are already turning against Puel.

There are some huge overreactions in here - even from people who aren't serial over-reactors.

 

Yes, we should be looking to beat Sunderland and disappointed if we don't, but what we're seeing IMO is role unfamiliarity, not lack of quality. We have very good players all over the pitch but we're missing Pelle's pressing up-front (all the more so if Long doesn't start) - it was much too easy for Sunderland to get out of their own end. And I would MUCH rather see Tadic playing wide. When (if) Boufal arrives we may well see that change, and start to see much more from Hojberg, who went missing when Sunderland reversed our early dominance - he didn't seem to know what part he was supposed to play. I DON'T think we're missing Wanyama that much because Romeu is defending quite well and doing something with the ball when he has it.

 

Austin needs an early ball but he won't get it as long as the midfield is looking for a square pass rather than a penetrating one, or if Tadic wants to put his foot on the ball and look around while Austin runs offside.

 

It's ridiculous to turn on Puel when we won't see what he brings until the players settle into their roles. Start judging after ten games, not three FFS.

This. Give the bloke a chance. People are maybe pre-judging him because he doesn’t speak wonderful English yet, but he is one of the best and most flexible coaches there is.

The team is actually in a BETTER position than this time last year. Same number of points, but we have conceded fewer. Also last year we did not play Mourinho's Man U away as our second match (where we also dominated possession and chances created). Yes, some tinkering is needed, and we are lacking two attackers, but this will be sorted out.

My God, what a load of wet fannies we have on here! OK, expectations were that we should have beaten both Watford and Sunderland at home, but we are a team with a couple of player changes and injuries playing for a new manager, whose tactical style needs to be accommodated by the players, and to a certain extent the manager is also learning the style that suits the players too. On the other hand too, we have faced two teams expected to be towards the bottom of the division at the close of the season, so although our expectations of a win are higher, then also both teams will have come here attempting not to lose. Both teams parked the bus, wasted time, fell down at the slightest touch, did everything to break us out of our stride.

We dominated the midfield for the first twenty minutes and then either they upped their game, or we took our foot off the pedal and the second quarter was poor and boring. It needed a goal from us to have them chase the goal and the second penalty awarded against us in three games was the worst thing that could have happened on the face of it. However, it brought about a good response and a sense of urgency and it is to be applauded that we had the desire, the resolve, to press for the equaliser and then having got it, to go for the win.

Targett did very well at left back, but perhaps Bertrand would have added even more. Who knows what Mane and Pelle could have given us, but Long coming on earlier could have provided more of a threat. Ultimately the substitutions made by Puel were positive and purposeful and with better finishing, or with a less effective performance from their goalkeeper the three points would have been ours and there would have been quite a different tone on here.

But surely a mention must be made of the referee, Lee Mason. Is there a worse referee in any top division in World football? I doubt it. Every time he referees us, the chants go around the stadium, "you don't know what you're doing". Today there was a loud rendering of "one nil to the referee". Why don't the club do an Everton and put a dossier of his performances involving us in front of the authorities demanding that he be barred from refereeing our matches?

Jesus, there are some easily panicked people here.

average shots per game for us is currently 17.7. 2nd only to Liverpool. our issue and sole issue is getting the ball in the back of the net.

Hopefully signing(s) over the next couple of days will sort that out.

Jesus, there are some easily panicked people here.

 

average shots per game for us is currently 17.7. 2nd only to Liverpool. our issue and sole issue is getting the ball in the back of the net.

 

Hopefully signing(s) over the next couple of days will sort that out.

They are all from distance though (well, mainly)

Jack Rodwell and Lynden Gooch bossed us. Admit it.

They are all from distance though (well, mainly)

to be exact 17.7 Total

11.7 Outside Box

5.3 Penalty Area

0.7 Six Yard Box

we're just on our typical slow start.

How do you have 0.7 or 0.3 of a shot? Just asking.

Jay Rod needs to stay imo, lucky with the goal but also seems to have recovered a lot of his pace/power everyone was worried he'd lose. If anyone needs loaning out it's Targett. Not good enough for the PL, offers f*ck all going forward and is a liability at the back. I like the lad but a season in the championship would do him good

to be exact 17.7 Total

11.7 Outside Box

5.3 Penalty Area

0.7 Six Yard Box

 

we're just on our typical slow start.

Fair enough.

In the last few years I'd fancy our chances going to Arsenal, or at least a expect the team to really make Arsenal fight for it

They will easily beat us. We will flatter to deceive and it will be ok as we are playing away to "Arsenal"

There is either a language problem and the players don't understand the system Pual wants them to play or it does not work.

I can answer that - it doesn't work in the Premier League. Might be ok in France but that's not where we play.

Thought we were going to stroll it after our bright first 15/20 minutes but then it all turned sour. Confidence seemed to drain from the players and they looked a shadow of what they showed early on. Yeah, for a large period we looked dog****e, utterly terrible. But this wasn't some new occurrence, some new experience that only the hapless Claude Puel could serve up! There were plenty of games last season, the first half and around Xmas specifically, where we were toothless, clueless, and looked dog****e, and that's with all the "irreplaceable" players that we've lost since. It's nothing new. Koeman served up some inept performances too, but of course we finished strongly so all is forgiven and forgotten. I'm not exactly filled with confidence with Puel but I'm prepared to give him a few more games before writing him off. Once the "window mercato" closes and we've got all transfers done then we'll see where we are going.

Just got back.

We looked excellent the first half hour, their keeper kept them in it and on another day we'd have been 2 or 3 up, until we started to tail off a bit.

That was also the point that Mason started to look for any decision he could possibly give against us, he was an utter joke today, and we just couldn't seem to get any momentum, partly because of that.

Thought we did well to get the equaliser, even if the goal itself was lucky, we were well worth it and their keeper was due a mistake with the amount we were throwing at him.

Unlucky not to go on and win it in the end.

On to the next one.

That was dreadful, formation needs to revert back or we are in trouble.

And that is the crux of it. Koeman had the confidence of fans and reputation. The summer he arrived we breathed a sigh of relief that at least one thing had gone right. This summer NOTHING has gone right and Puel is useless.

 

 

 

 

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Puel is useless? A manager that has taken a team to the semi-final of the Champions League. Probably knows more about what he is doing than you. Certainly way more than I would know. Yes, it's a rough start but he is not useless.

How do you have 0.7 or 0.3 of a shot? Just asking.

99% of all statistics only tell 49 percent of the story.

To avoid me reading the excuses after Arsenal and Swansea what we're our results after 4 n 5 games last season?

I know you are smarter than this. I'm sure there were similar over reactions last season.. It's early. It's a rough start but plenty of time for it to settle down. The amount of money the players get, they should be able to adapt to different formations.

Will Boufal be back for the Arsenal game?