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Thread: Coronavirus Discussion Thread

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    Footballers contracts mean that if they have to take a pay cut they are entitled to a free transfer. Thatís one of the reason clubs wonít ask them to do so. Can anybody say hand on heart that all agents and players will act honourably once this is all over and not take advantage of that. ****ing hell, itís hard enough to hold them to contacts when they havenít got the right to a free.....


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    From a money saving point of view if clubs are struggling shouldn't the players be the first one furloughed? The government will give each player 2500 a month to get by and the club's can save 50k a week on each player. Where as furloughing the tea lady and kit man probably doesn't save the clubs enough money to pay a back up goal keepers wages for a week.

    My guess is the back room staff are normal Paye employees while the players are not and so can't be furloughed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by doddisalegend View Post
    From a money saving point of view if clubs are struggling shouldn't the players be the first one furloughed? The government will give each player 2500 a month to get by and the club's can save 50k a week on each player. Where as furloughing the tea lady and kit man probably doesn't save the clubs enough money to pay a back up goal keepers wages for a week.

    My guess is the back room staff are normal Paye employees while the players are not and so can't be furloughed?

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    Also the players will still be required to follow behaviour guidelines, diet, fitness levels etc and officially they are still required to be fit for the resumption of the Premier league which hasn't officially been cancelled yet beyond April. If you furlough the players the clubs won't be able to enforce any of that stuff for a minimum of three weeks. The players should definitely volunteer a wage cut though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
    I would certainly agree that companies with very high earners have an obligation to support those less well off. Everyone says people should be glad to get 80% and it a brilliant offer from the government, but it wasn't meant for people earning £100s of thousands a year to keep their incomes at the expense of those less well off.
    I donít see the issue, just tax high earners through the nose afterwards to pay for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    If the deal is that the government will pay 80% of wages up to £2500pm, this should indeed extent to footballers and the club should be able to pay them nothing. Whether it's right that millionaire footballers are taking advantage of a taxpayer funded scheme, designed to stop ordinary people losing their homes is a different matter.

    Obviously I have every sympathy for someone who might have to put up with an outdated 2016 Aston Martin for another 6 months but the fact that more footballers haven't taken a pay cut is disappointing to say the least.
    Oh come on, you've gone off at a tangent and completely swerved my point.

    I agree that footballers should take some financial pain, the haves absolutely should in order to avoid the haves nots suffering financially.

    Explain how a furloughed football club employee getting full wage (80% from the government and 20% from the employer) is prejudiced by being furloughed.

    All businesses are taking advantage of the scheme. Football clubs can so why shouldn't they.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
    Because football clubs and players after having their snout in the trough for years earning fortunes off the public have a moral obligation not to take advantage of a government support not meant for them. Unless of course you think it's absolutely fine for a 22 year old squad player with no responsibilities to carry on earning £80k a week playing on his Xbox whilst a back office worker at a club has to live off 80% of £30k a year. Football is the shining example of an industry that can support itself without being subsidised by the government.
    I've not heard of any club limiting furloughed staff pay to the 80% given by the government. If staff are getting just the 80%, and the players the full 100%, that's unacceptable. However, the principle of clubs furloughing staff, topping up the 20% is not something I have an issue with personally. If you say football clubs shouldn't do it, what other businesses do you exclude? The answer is no businesses, the furlough program is available across the board.

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    Quote Originally Posted by egg View Post
    I've not heard of any club limiting furloughed staff pay to the 80% given by the government. If staff are getting just the 80%, and the players the full 100%, that's unacceptable. However, the principle of clubs furloughing staff, topping up the 20% is not something I have an issue with personally. If you say football clubs shouldn't do it, what other businesses do you exclude? The answer is no businesses, the furlough program is available across the board.
    Barcelona players take 70% pay cut
    Juventus players take 4 month wage deferal
    Tottenham and Newcastle players do nothing but their clubs put back office staff on furlough within a couple of weeks

    Of course clubs have every right to take advantage, my point is that having been awash with cash and rinsing every last penny out of their fans for years maybe clubs and players have a moral obligation to give something back at time, you obviously dont think they do, fair enough.

    #thepeoplesgame

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    I agree that any players taking a huge wage cut and being furloughed are probably entitled to a free transfer.

    That rules out most of the players - but perhaps not all, given our Ďexcellentí transfer record in recent years....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
    Barcelona players take 70% pay cut
    Juventus players take 4 month wage deferal
    Tottenham and Newcastle players do nothing but their clubs put back office staff on furlough within a couple of weeks

    Of course clubs have every right to take advantage, my point is that having been awash with cash and rinsing every last penny out of their fans for years maybe clubs and players have a moral obligation to give something back at time, you obviously dont think they do, fair enough.

    #thepeoplesgame
    I understand all that, but I don't get this point that cos players cant realistically be furloughed, and aren't putting their hands up for a cut, that football clubs shouldn't be able to do what every other business is able to do and furlough staff who can't work at the moment. The staff are not prejudiced by being furloughed. Indeed, the opposite could be the case - I know people who are under furlough who are loving the opportunity to do other jobs and helping out in places where help is needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by egg View Post
    I understand all that, but I don't get this point that cos players cant realistically be furloughed, and aren't putting their hands up for a cut, that football clubs shouldn't be able to do what every other business is able to do and furlough staff who can't work at the moment. The staff are not prejudiced by being furloughed. Indeed, the opposite could be the case - I know people who are under furlough who are loving the opportunity to do other jobs and helping out in places where help is needed.
    Because morally its shameful that there are players at clubs earning millions of pounds a year paid for by the public since football began whilst the the clubs wont pay £30k a year to back office staff and are asking the government to bail them out. The government is basically subsiding two of the world richest football clubs, that doesn't sit well with me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stud mark of doom View Post
    I agree that any players taking a huge wage cut and being furloughed are probably entitled to a free transfer.

    That rules out most of the players - but perhaps not all, given our ‘excellent’ transfer record in recent years....
    We should try it with Boufal, Hoedt, Carrillo and Forster. It would be a terrible shame if they left on a free transfer.

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    Well, Zilina who are second in the Slovak league have gone bankrupt to save the club and have got rid of 17 players in their first team squad. The players were presented with a fait accompli of being paid only 20% and, partly due to the way it was done with no negotiation at all, didn't accept. If the league starts again the club say they will play the youth team..

    The players say they were prepared to negotiate, the club say "our 2020 budget was based on earnings which are now zero". They also make the point "unfortunately we won't be the only ones who have to make radical decisions". Ain't that the truth.

  13. #1113

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    Eddie Howe and other members of the Bournemouth hierarchy are taking "voluntary" pay cuts after their bad press earlier.

  14. #1114

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    Awful situation ...but this will go on for months ....only sensible solution is to void the season ( except for league cup which has been completed) .....Maybe give Liverpool some sort of bonus points and the likes of Leeds and West Brom for next season. As well as the other teams that were in the automaic promotion positions in the leagues ......just a thought

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    Quote Originally Posted by gammon cheeks View Post
    Awful situation ...but this will go on for months ....only sensible solution is to void the season ( except for league cup which has been completed) .....Maybe give Liverpool some sort of bonus points and the likes of Leeds and West Brom for next season. As well as the other teams that were in the automaic promotion positions in the leagues ......just a thought
    Yep, this season is over and already forgotten.

    Liverpool have earned my respect but not my sympathy.

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    So billionaire owner of football club, and his CEO who is paid £7m a year, pay on average £70k a week to playing staff. But in a time of national crisis, the billionaire owner and the multimillionaire CEO lay off their staff so that the tax payer can pay their wages.
    Football has become one sick puppy.

  17. #1117

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    We should try it with Boufal, Hoedt, Carrillo and Forster. It would be a terrible shame if they left on a free transfer.
    Beat me to it, could be a way to get rid of the deadwood ...every cloud and that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doddisalegend View Post
    Non-League clubs getting upset about their seasons being cancelled and voided.

    Sixty-six non-league clubs send open letter to FA over expunging season

    Sixty-six non-league clubs have sent an open letter to the Football Association, calling for it to "urgently" reconsider the decision to expunge their seasons.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52098137



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    I don't know if this has already been mentioned but it's also messed up both of the Southampton womens teams chance of promotion after very good seasons , Imo it should be consistent through all leagues of football none is more important than the other .

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    Quote Originally Posted by simo View Post
    It should be consistent through all leagues of football none is more important than the other .
    The world does not agree and quite right too.

    There is a reason why millions of people in Malaysia don't have any desire to watch Matlock Town or Tiverton or Stafford Rangers.

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    This - very quick n dirty - calculation shows the table after adding points for games not played, based on pints/games for the season gone. Also has GD calculated in the same way.

    The only changes are Sheffield United using their game in hand to leap frog Wolves by two points to go 6th (dropping Wolves into 7th) and - and this is quite funny I guess - Arsenal sneakign past SPurs, by under half a point. (If you round to nearest whole point figure, they are both on 54, and Spurs GD is better... ...so, one for North London to argue over).

    Not saying this is what I want, but clearly this shows the season can end here, as fairly as possible for all, and we crack on in the Autumn with a new season. I suspect similar calculations can be done for all divisions. Just playoffs that might have to be missed - third place team goes up...?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Polaroid Saint View Post
    This - very quick n dirty - calculation shows the table after adding points for games not played, based on pints/games for the season gone. Also has GD calculated in the same way.

    The only changes are Sheffield United using their game in hand to leap frog Wolves by two points to go 6th (dropping Wolves into 7th) and - and this is quite funny I guess - Arsenal sneakign past SPurs, by under half a point. (If you round to nearest whole point figure, they are both on 54, and Spurs GD is better... ...so, one for North London to argue over).

    Not saying this is what I want, but clearly this shows the season can end here, as fairly as possible for all, and we crack on in the Autumn with a new season. I suspect similar calculations can be done for all divisions. Just playoffs that might have to be missed - third place team goes up...?


    if only football was played on spreadsheets this might be valid......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
    if only football was played on spreadsheets this might be valid......
    be interesting to see - at the same point of a season - where a predicted spreadsheet would have had us finishing the other year, when Hughes kept us up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
    if only football was played on spreadsheets this might be valid......
    MLG would orgasm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    MLG would orgasm.
    That's a thought and image I could have lived without

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    There is only one fair, practical and sensible way. Void the season for all football leagues, both genders.

    Any other system will have some teams losing out.

    Start again when it’s safe.

    Some things are far more important than football, promotions, titles etc etc.

    League cup results still stand though as that was completed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mickn View Post
    That's a thought and image I could have lived without
    The only image I had was Marvin the android from hitchhikers guide blowing a fuse.

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    All true, and valid. And I don't really like the ideea. But it is not unheard of for sport to be decided by predictions based on previous performance.

    Where are Dcukworth and Lewis when you need 'em eh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polaroid Saint View Post
    All true, and valid. And I don't really like the ideea. But it is not unheard of for sport to be decided by predictions based on previous performance.

    Where are Dcukworth and Lewis when you need 'em eh?
    Woild be pretty controversial to relegate Bournemouth and villa by a point or goal difference based on their current position. Villa could argue that the only reason they are in the relegation zone is because they had a game rearranged because they got to the league Cup final.

  29. #1129

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    MLG would orgasm.
    Is it true he simultaneously shouts Praise the Lord?

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    Is it true he simultaneously shouts Praise the Lord?
    I expect if his missus ever does he will immediately cease the operation and give a lecture about where the orgasm come from, an invisible deity which does not exist or the immense sexual prowess of MLG.

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    Woild be pretty controversial to relegate Bournemouth and villa by a point or goal difference based on their current position. Villa could argue that the only reason they are in the relegation zone is because they had a game rearranged because they got to the league Cup final.




    or they could have played the postponed game and lost thus making their gd worse
    Last edited by SFC Forever; 02-04-2020 at 11:15 AM.

  32. #1132

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    Quote Originally Posted by Behind Enemy Lines View Post
    There is only one fair, practical and sensible way. Void the season for all football leagues, both genders.

    Any other system will have some teams losing out.

    Start again when it’s safe.

    Some things are far more important than football, promotions, titles etc etc.

    League cup results still stand though as that was completed.
    Agreed

  33. #1133

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    Quote Originally Posted by Behind Enemy Lines View Post
    There is only one fair, practical and sensible way. Void the season for all football leagues, both genders.

    Any other system will have some teams losing out.

    Start again when itís safe.

    Some things are far more important than football, promotions, titles etc etc.

    League cup results still stand though as that was completed.
    Have to agree with this, though I do think every league in Europe need to agree to do the same thing.

    I do not want to mess up next season and the season after for thge sake of playing 9 or 10 games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IFHP View Post
    Have to agree with this, though I do think every league in Europe need to agree to do the same thing.

    I do not want to mess up next season and the season after for thge sake of playing 9 or 10 games.
    I'm not even sure it's safe to assume next season won't be affected by the virus as well if I'm honest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polaroid Saint View Post
    All true, and valid. And I don't really like the ideea. But it is not unheard of for sport to be decided by predictions based on previous performance.

    Where are Dcukworth and Lewis when you need 'em eh?
    Not analogous at all. You start a match where D&L might apply knowing that D&L might apply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morse View Post
    So billionaire owner of football club, and his CEO who is paid £7m a year, pay on average £70k a week to playing staff. But in a time of national crisis, the billionaire owner and the multimillionaire CEO lay off their staff so that the tax payer can pay their wages.
    Football has become one sick puppy.
    Agree but it is a similar situation for other businesses up and down the country, they are all going to use the government’s offer even if they have rich owners and high paid people at the top. It’s not football itself that’s the sick puppy, it’s the whole system.

    Hopefully we will tax the wealthiest through the nose afterwards to pay for it all.

  37. #1137

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    Agree but it is a similar situation for other businesses up and down the country, they are all going to use the government’s offer even if they have rich owners and high paid people at the top. It’s not football itself that’s the sick puppy, it’s the whole system.

    Hopefully we will tax the wealthiest through the nose afterwards to pay for it all.
    Just remember that it’s not the rich that are receiving the money but the poor bloody workers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    Just remember that it’s not the rich that are receiving the money but the poor bloody workers.
    The businesses receive the money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    Not analogous at all. You start a match where D&L might apply knowing that D&L might apply.
    Fair point about awareness of D&L rule before embarking on a game. Agreed. But perhaps better than a toss of a coin, which is the traditonal football method!

    Actually, maybe that's what we should have - one big toss off. Just a three hour special of Lineker/Chappers/Stelling introducing our favourite ex-pros from each club gurning eachother as Mike Riley tosses a coin. What fun.

    OR we just finish the season on FIFA. Why the **** not? Apperently Redders and Bertie are ace on the D-pad, so...

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    Finances beginning to unravel in France with Canal refusing to pay the next TV rights instalment. Citing force majeur. Assume this will drive clubs to withhold payments to players.

    Then the fun starts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shroppie View Post
    Finances beginning to unravel in France with Canal refusing to pay the next TV rights instalment. Citing force majeur. Assume this will drive clubs to withhold payments to players.

    Then the fun starts.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
    That’s why I can see the clubs making sure the season is completed behind close doors. If it doesn’t then there’s no money from Sky or BT, then it’s meltdown.

    Don’t a lot of clubs have loans secured on future TV money?

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    That’s why I can see the clubs making sure the season is completed behind close doors. If it doesn’t then there’s no money from Sky or BT, then it’s meltdown.

    Don’t a lot of clubs have loans secured on future TV money?
    Yes and i think we are one of them

  43. #1143

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    The Belgian league has become the first one to cancel the raminder of their season - only had one match to go though and Bruges were 15 points ahead. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52138270

  44. #1144

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polaroid Saint View Post
    Where are Dcukworth and Lewis when you need 'em eh?
    Actually Mr Lewis died today (or possibly yesterday, was in today's news). Not joking!

  45. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chewy View Post
    Actually Mr Lewis died today (or possibly yesterday, was in today's news). Not joking!
    And if it hadn't been for Covid-19 how many long would he have lived.

    (Too soon?)

  46. #1146

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
    Because morally its shameful that there are players at clubs earning millions of pounds a year paid for by the public since football began whilst the the clubs wont pay £30k a year to back office staff and are asking the government to bail them out. The government is basically subsiding two of the world richest football clubs, that doesn't sit well with me.
    Rare for me to agree almost entirely with Turkish, but absolutely this.

    I get that other businesses will take advantage of the governments offer, and I get that in pure accounting terms it makes absolute sense for the clubs to do this - the staff aren't working and the government can pay so why not? Well, it's frankly immoral, that's why.

    And there is another factor. After all this we can as consumers and customers choose to punish the w4nkers who tried to profiteer, be it sports direct for claimong they were an essential retailer or the corner shop who put up the prices of hand wash and toilet rolls. We can't when it comes to football clubs.

    Of course, technically and legally we can, I don't have to support saints, but changing from saints to Pompey is a bit different than Waitrose to Asda or whatever.

    Football is simply different, and the obscene sums of money in the premier league, especially in wages to players and board members and fees to agents makes this absolutely stick in the throat. There are people who have lost livelihoods and businesses, and obscenely wealthy football clubs are using tax payers money (perfectly legitimately) to cut costs while continuing to pay players a weekly amount higher than many annual salaries. Utterly sick and obscene.
    Last edited by Chewy; 02-04-2020 at 06:12 PM. Reason: Typo

  47. #1147

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    The use of the furlough scheme by PL clubs is shameful. There isn't one club that couldn’t confortably guarantee the jobs of non- playing salaried staff , with a little effort.

    One thing we could do is make our feelings on this known to The Saints board, just in case they were tempted, which I’m pretty confident they wouldn’t be .

  48. #1148

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
    Because football clubs and players after having their snout in the trough for years earning fortunes off the public have a moral obligation not to take advantage of a government support not meant for them. Unless of course you think it's absolutely fine for a 22 year old squad player with no responsibilities to carry on earning £80k a week playing on his Xbox whilst a back office worker at a club has to live off 80% of £30k a year. Football is the shining example of an industry that can support itself without being subsidised by the government.
    Maybe it's the virus and lack of football but I like turkish now.

  49. #1149

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    Quote Originally Posted by SFC Forever View Post
    Woild be pretty controversial to relegate Bournemouth and villa by a point or goal difference based on their current position. Villa could argue that the only reason they are in the relegation zone is because they had a game rearranged because they got to the league Cup final.




    or they could have played the postponed game and lost thus making their gd worse
    So many teams have a late surge to survive, including us a few times. A team might just happen to have 5 winnable fixtures in the last month or so. They might find form when it's really needed.

    You can't go off 30/31 games, you can't do an average. It's not about averages it's about everyone playing each other home and away.

    But mostly, stadiums could be a great help against the virus. Medical staff could be a great help. They shouldn't be wasting time on this football season. And even more to the point, imagine if someone gets injured and needs hospital attention, while others are dying of the virus. And in 9 rounds of matches, there will be serious injuries, there always are. Probably more for players without match fitness.

    So they'll discuss it all and delay, but the season will be voided.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adriansfc View Post
    Maybe it's the virus and lack of football but I like turkish now.
    I get the impression he’s actually fairly tolerable in real life. He just likes winding up strangers on t’internet.

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