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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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Give it to Ron

Give it to Ron

Posted
Posted
I have to agree with him to an extent. St Marys has a decent atmosphere for a new ground, and not being "out of town" is also a bonus, but other than that it is still a characterless bowl like many others that sprung up around the late 90s, early 00s, I despise places like Middlesbrough and have a genuine interest in football stadiums and the history they represent.

Germany have done very well with their new grounds, keeping standing and cheap tickets has meant they have kept a lot of the old atmosphere.

 

SMS has at times been as good as the Dell and its a fallacy to state otherwise.

Its just there have not been that many to think of!

I know a few Nowich fans who reckon they have never ever heard a goal louder cheered than Camaras winner against them.

Wolves quarter final at SMS was awesome with the whole stadium rocking.

Portsmouth 3-0 on Dec 21st 2003 was amazing.

Recently the JPT Norwich game had fantastic sound ....at times mainly at the end.

SMS can be very atmospheric as witnessed recently with the slow OWTSGMI its just we havent had much to cheer about!

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Joey-deacons-left-nut

Joey-deacons-left-nut

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Oh look... just like the last time the PVA were going to kick off... strange that the club remains silent for so long, as soon as theres a whiff of a protest we get a little fluff piece up saying "trust us! things will be ok" and they chuck them a couple of crumbs that they hope will placate the fans hunger...

 

Problem is, I don't think (rightly so) the blue few are going to fall for that one again....

 

I predict "issues" tonight :)

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Fowllyd

Fowllyd

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Today's News has its front page half-covered with a pic of a bespectacled middle-aged man, with the accompanying blurb: "Staying mum - the Pompey money man and reports of fraud". The pic's not Storrie, so I guess it must be either Jacob or Azougy. You can see it on their web site's front page - , but the link just goes to a page to subscribe to the paper.

 

Even though I'm in Horndean, I can't be arsed to buy a copy, but I'm sure it'll all be online sooner or later.

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OldNick

OldNick

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just been playing around with the site.

 

Nickh has posted 287 times in this thread so far, 111 more than the next prolific poster on this thread :wink:

that is sad, but not as sad as someone actually having a look to see how many everybody is posting lol. 288 now, although that does surprise me
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Scummer

Scummer

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what would trigger more than a -10 deduction..?

 

why did we only get -10 and leeds, luton etc get alot more..?

 

They had additional financial irregularities. Sad thing on the Luton one is that it was them who highlighted the problem, as the new board had come in and seen what the old guys had been doing.....

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Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

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what would trigger more than a -10 deduction..?

 

why did we only get -10 and leeds, luton etc get alot more..?

It's -10 for going into administration with more to follow depending upon how the club exits administration and how much the creditors are paid. Luton had -10 in 2007-2008 for entering administration and then -30 in 2008-2009 , -20 from the Football League for failing to comply with their insolvency policy and -10 and -£50k from the FA for not registering payments to agents. I suspect that the Premier League has different but similar sanctions.

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Yeovil Saint

Yeovil Saint

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A bit of an odd statement by Marc Jacob though in the Guardian piece,

Regarding the wages, Jacob added: "No, there shouldn't be a problem with the salaries. We're confident."

 

I've been involved in cashflow before - PFC know exactly how much is going out in their payroll, they should know if there's enough funds available in the bank to cover that. Jacob's words make me feel like there's not enough money in the bank right now but he's thinking that there should be enough money coming in today to cover it (maybe from an early transfer fee?)

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saintds

saintds

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Increasingly, people are talking about the sensibility of taking the 10-point hit that would come from going into administration and looking towards building a side to bounce back from relegation.

 

That stance is vulgar, however, and goes against the essence of sport, not to mention the fighting instinct which drips from the pores of the city of Portsmouth

 

I don't know why, but the final part of this section of the article makes me want to vomit.

 

Uncontrollably.

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Clapham Saint

Clapham Saint

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what would trigger more than a -10 deduction..?

 

why did we only get -10 and leeds, luton etc get alot more..?

 

As I understand it.... One of the factors is not exiting the Administration by way of a CVA in which all football creditrs must be paid in full.

 

HMRC vote against all CVA proposals which propose paying football creditors being in advance of HMRC as a matter of principle.

 

In our case Marcus bought the whole company (although he left the holding company and bank debt behind) as so amounts owed to HMRC and other clubs were paid in full.

 

In the case of the skates, a huge proportion of their debt is owed either to other clubs or HMRC.

 

Somebody looking to buy them from an administrator would need to buy the club, then pay off clubs owed fees and HMRC in full to avoid further penalties.

 

This is before he can even think about buying the ground/land around the ground etc.

 

I really think they're f**ked.

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Clapham Saint

Clapham Saint

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A bit of an odd statement by Marc Jacob though in the Guardian piece,

Regarding the wages, Jacob added: "No, there shouldn't be a problem with the salaries. We're confident."

 

I've been involved in cashflow before - PFC know exactly how much is going out in their payroll, they should know if there's enough funds available in the bank to cover that. Jacob's words make me feel like there's not enough money in the bank right now but he's thinking that there should be enough money coming in today to cover it (maybe from an early transfer fee?)

 

Exactly.

 

You are either:

 

a) sure it will be fine as the money is already in the bank

b) hopeful that although there isn't enough money right now, if you get the money that you are expecting/praying for it should be ok, or

c) know it will go tits becuase you don't have the cash.

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Verbal

Verbal

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Posted
A bit of an odd statement by Marc Jacob though in the Guardian piece,

Regarding the wages, Jacob added: "No, there shouldn't be a problem with the salaries. We're confident."

 

I've been involved in cashflow before - PFC know exactly how much is going out in their payroll, they should know if there's enough funds available in the bank to cover that. Jacob's words make me feel like there's not enough money in the bank right now but he's thinking that there should be enough money coming in today to cover it (maybe from an early transfer fee?)

 

The reason Pompey may well pay their players and staff today is that the club has been given a special dispensation to receive transfer funds early. I suppose they're just waiting nd hoping that flogging off all they can raises enough short term cash.

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aintforever

aintforever

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Posted
what would trigger more than a -10 deduction..?

 

why did we only get -10 and leeds, luton etc get alot more..?

 

I think you get more if you have previously been in administration, Bournemouth had an additional -2 to their -15 last year.

 

Have the Skates have been in admin before? If so they should hopefully get the same treatment, unless it's just a FL thing.

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PES

PES

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Up until now PES you've talked a lot of sense, and I guess you've got some argument here, but lets face it, its just the history & memories that you're hanging on too. I can't see how you'd rather have a ramshackle S**te hole over a bright shiny new soulless bowl of a stadium, which may just help get you out of the POO your currently in. I don't think its anything about aesthetics. I've been to several new stadiums & and as you say they lack soul, but that is down to the newness of the stadiums & because they have no history or memories. If you'd been around when Saints moved to the Dell & Pompey opened Fratton then I guess we'd be saying that they were soulless boxes of stadiums.

I remember the first time I went to Wembley, I was so looking forward to it (because of the history), it gave me goose bumps going up Wembley way. but once in side I couldn't believe how bad it was. Now the new Wembley is so much better than the old (went with Brother in Law to Stockports play of final). Now maybe its because its on the old footprint, that still gives it that special feeling I don't know? Many of the new grounds are on new site's & that is maybe what makes them soulless.

 

Some good points here Weststand. Remember as some fans have forgotten, missed the point or plain don't understand, opinion of art is subjective, I can't say your wrong for appreciating SMS over Fratton, how do I know what ticks your boxes? Likewise, surely, people cant say i'm WRONG for appreciating the overall feel I get for Fratton.

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PES

PES

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It looks ike they're delaying the inevitable doesn't it?

 

but i still have this horrible niggling feeling that they'll survive, have their debts paid off and get away with it all scott free - it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

 

Unless we go into administration, we won't get away scott free? How do you call the complete dismantling of your squad as getting away scott free. Even if we did stay up by some miracle, we still would not of got away scott free. Anyway, stop worrying, IMO, Sadly Pompey are going to the wall it's just a matter of time.

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Gemmel

Gemmel

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How come with us it was one bounced cheque and Rupes is on the blower to Mr Admin whereas pompey seem harder to kill than that bad guy from Terminator 2?

 

I don't remember HMRC or anyone issuing a winding up petition against us.

 

Probably best left to Clapham Saint, to explain the real differences, but in its most basic terms, we didnt default or default to an extent that other creditors wanted to wind us up. The bank simply bounced a cheque and had the directors carried on trading would have become personally liable for the debts.

 

The tax man is a whole different ball game and it is now at the stage where they dont just want their money, they want to close them down. Whilst i am sure they will bail themselves out somehow, or be reborn in some new guise, this is going to be painful.

 

I also think it will force to FA or PL to address the whole "Money" aspect of football.

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Gemmel

Gemmel

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Can someone explain exactly what a winding up order means.

 

Ta muchly.

 

It is where the creditor (HMRC) wants to close the business down. They have skipped the Administration step (Which would have given them some more time and more options)

They have four weeks to find the money or they really are out of existence.

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View From The Top

View From The Top

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Posted
It is where the creditor (HMRC) wants to close the business down. They have skipped the Administration step (Which would have given them some more time and more options)

They have four weeks to find the money or they really are out of existence.

 

So, in theory, this should launch a mad scramble by creditors to get their money out.

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saintbletch

saintbletch

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Can someone explain exactly what a winding up order means.

 

Ta muchly.

 

It's a formal legal process that results in the dissolution of the business. Anyone who is a creditor or a certain amount can petition the courts to wind the company up if they can show that they have tried to get their money back without success. I think the company would then be liquidated where assets are sold to pay creditors.

 

A football legal expert (ex-Bournemouth Chairman) said that this is quite drastic but doesn't actually mean much unless other creditors (specifically the banks) get spooked and also file petitions.

 

He felt that Portsmouth would pay the 'Revenue somehow and that they'd continue to try to find new capital.

 

Now also on Sky Sports News.

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

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so obviously they still aren't keeping up with their tax payments....even though they came out and said this was being covered a few weeks back, funny.

 

I guess this also means no chance of their transfer embargo being lifted.

 

It will be funny seeing them sell and not be able to buy.

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Gemmel

Gemmel

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So, in theory, this should launch a mad scramble by creditors to get their money out.

 

This is excatly what I thought, if you are owed money now then you will be as ****ed off as pompey fans.

 

HMRC have first dibs on any money, so watford and co will be panicking.

 

If the petition is successful it automatically becomes a compulsory liquidation.

 

If they dont pay the players tomorrow, some will walk away and sign on for other clubs, taking a nice 20% + signing on fee for themselves, if they do get paid, pompey will sell sell sell..... the trouble being that this news will ensure the players values are greatly reduced.

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Yeovil Saint

Yeovil Saint

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Posted

Pompey owe a reported £10m to HMRC and had arranged a payment plan which included £2m in December and £2m in January, I assume in addition to the approx £1.5m they should pay for the payroll PAYE.

 

HMRC issued a demand for £2m on December 23rd, giving Pompey seven days to pay up. This must be the £2m that Marc Jacob said had been paid in December because it doesn't make sense for HMRC demanding something that they had already agreed would be paid in January.

 

It remains to be seen if the winding up order is for just the £2m in default or if they are now wanting the whole £10m+

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