Fraser Forster

[Mr X]

They had 2 shots on target. 2 goals.

 

The keeper had the opportunity to get to both, but chose not to.

 

Oh, and both goals went through his legs which indicate slow reactions as well.

this sums it up should have and could have done better with both goals, the second practically went through his legs, to be fair the first was a horrendously weighted back-pass

[Trout-Tickler]

Why didn't he come out and close down RVP for the first one? When RVP gets the ball he takes one touch and then puts it through Forster's legs who's pretty much standing still. If he'd gotten closer to him then he'd have forced RVP to take it round him with a heavier touch, that may have tightened the angle and made it more difficult to score. In saying that though, Fonte should never have put him in that position...horrendous error from him. For the second our marking was criminal, why is anyone (let alone RVP) allowed to run onto the ball from the free kick completely unmarked?

 

Forster is a good keeper but I don't understand how people can say with such confidence that he's an upgrade on AB. He might be but at present I'm not fully convinced. Additionally, if Forster is worth £10M how much for a top class keeper such as Neuer or Courtois?

[sandwichsaint]

You cannot possibly blame Forster for the first, that was entirely down to José.

 

Not blaming him per se, clearly the goal was caused in large part by Fonte's attempted back pass. I'm saying Forster could have done several things to make it harder for RVP to score, he could have come out of his area and beaten him to the ball (couldn't see if that was the case on any of the telly angles but some on this thread suggest that was possible?), he could have headed him off at the top of the box, he could have got closer to the ball and stayed on his feet and attempted to channel him wider, he could have rushed the ball in a big starfish/Schmeichal-type spread. The fact that he didn't do any of these things gave RVP one of the easiest goals he will ever score. The forward would probably score that goal 80% of the time, Forster's seeming unpreparedness (for what was an entirely predictable scenario) is the fine margins we are talking about.

[ThreeSixty]

All of his problems have been with issues coming off his line and starting position.

[sadoldgit]

I still think it is harsh to blame Forster for the first. The blame is solely down to Fonte in my book. Players like Van Persie don't miss many of those gifts.

There were also a queue of Untied players at the far post for the second. Where was the marking?

When Forster lets one in from the opposition keeper or tries to beat a player in his own area I will question his signing.

[sadoldgit]

this sums it up should have and could have done better with both goals, the second practically went through his legs, to be fair the first was a horrendously weighted back-pass

 

Many goals go through the keepers legs. If you don't spread you legs you have less balance and less movement. He has no idea where RVPs flick was going and no help from the defenders who were all left ball watching. Keepers are the last line of defence and if they make an error it is all their fault. What about the chances we missed at the other end???

[Webby]

I've not been convinced by Forster since his arrival, even before that for England. My celtic supporting friend said he's good but he likes to stay on his line and he's right. For a top class keeper, staying on your line is not good enough; you have to be a sweeper too these days.

 

The only crosses he's come for are easy claims, no-one around him. When it's crowded he stays rooted to his line. He's 6ft 7in for christ sake, he should be going through people, we all know how keepers are protected!

 

I say this not based on last night, or even the Villa mistake, but based on all the games he's played this season. Dodgy at spurs too remember?

 

Fair play, he pulled off some great saves at Arsenal but all keepers are capable of this; even Kelvin is a good shot stopper, but it's the other stuff, claiming crosses, commanding your area, kicking and distribution, and sweeping up that make a great keeper.

 

Sorry, but I feel he needs to improve in those other areas.

[Mowgli]

Shots to save ratio best in premier league. Better than Boruc against championship opposition. I like Boruc and was sorry you see him go but some people need to move on and put something weighty across their knee following any defeat.

[OldNick]

Should have done better with the second, but Van Persie was UNMARKED. That was the biggest issue.

No the biggest issue is that the keeper who must have a stretch close to 9 feet didnt come a pluck the ball out of the air, it was a floated ball, not one of pace and the defence had kept a high line leaving plenty of space for FF to come and catch, period

[Big Bad Bob]

No the biggest issue is that the keeper who must have a stretch close to 9 feet didnt come a pluck the ball out of the air, it was a floated ball, not one of pace and the defence had kept a high line leaving plenty of space for FF to come and catch, period

 

Hmm, maybe you need to watch a highlights reel again. It certainly wasn't a "floated" free kick it was low and with pace, and the defence all moved with the ball making it impossible for Forster to come out without running the danger of running into a back peddling defender who wasn't looking.

 

If you're looking for blame look at Wanyama not tracking RVP fully and allowing him a free unhindered attempt at the ball.

 

If I have one criticism of Forster it is that he does stay on the line but that is not a fault in itself, it all depends on if he has been instructed to play like this...

[VectisSaint]

Hmm, maybe you need to watch a highlights reel again. It certainly wasn't a "floated" free kick it was low and with pace, and the defence all moved with the ball making it impossible for Forster to come out without running the danger of running into a back peddling defender who wasn't looking.

.

It was floated, not much pace, high into the area by Rodney. It certainly was not drilled in low and hard. Forster should have come for it, but Vic lost his man and let RVP peel off at the back. I think I would agree with the comments by Merrington who assessed it accurately.

[Window Cleaner]

It was floated, not much pace, high into the area by Rodney. It certainly was not drilled in low and hard. Forster should have come for it, but Vic lost his man and let RVP peel off at the back. I think I would agree with the comments by Merrington who assessed it accurately.

 

It was certainly a very poor goal to concede but that's how RvP gets half of his goals and I'm sure someone was detailed to stop him from doing just that. Substitution was silly though, especially sending on someone as green as that at a free kick.

[Bearsy]

I'm not worried bout Forster. He's good enough, but not so good that we're obliged to sell him to Liverpool. He's four star.

[trousers]

[Charlie Wayman]

Substitution was silly though, especially sending on someone as green as that at a free kick.

 

Which had precisely coc.k-all to do with defenders going to sleep because of the lull and for once not ball watching. Fraser can only ever be as good as the back four in front of him and wasn't to blame for this act of schoolboy defending.

[Greedyfly]

Which had precisely coc.k-all to do with defenders going to sleep because of the lull and for once not ball watching. Fraser can only ever be as good as the back four in front of him and wasn't to blame for this act of schoolboy defending.

 

Well that's not quite true is it. Because it sure as hell wasn't our defenders who were at fault for the Villa goal. Toby had it under control and Forster should have arrived at Agbonlahor much sooner OR stayed on his line. He did neither, dithered and it was 1-0. He was woeful against Stoke and he should have done better with RVPs second. Not been overly impressed myself.

[WokingSaint]

I've not been convinced by Forster since his arrival, even before that for England. My celtic supporting friend said he's good but he likes to stay on his line and he's right. For a top class keeper, staying on your line is not good enough; you have to be a sweeper too these days.

 

The only crosses he's come for are easy claims, no-one around him. When it's crowded he stays rooted to his line. He's 6ft 7in for christ sake, he should be going through people, we all know how keepers are protected!

I say this not based on last night, or even the Villa mistake, but based on all the games he's played this season. Dodgy at spurs too remember?

Fair play, he pulled off some great saves at Arsenal but all keepers are capable of this; even Kelvin is a good shot stopper, but it's the other stuff, claiming crosses, commanding your area, kicking and distribution, and sweeping up that make a great keeper.

 

Sorry, but I feel he needs to improve in those other areas.

 

Exactly! As a former GK (at a very low level) the technique and decision making of modern GK's worries me. Not commanding their area and diving and punching the ball back into play instead of around the post are just two of the issues. Great shot stoppers they might be but overall not nearly as good as GK's from years ago.

[Whitey Grandad]

You can blame who you like for their second goal but between the lot of them they should have dealt with it. It seemed to me that they all left it for each other.

[Mr X]

You can blame who you like for their second goal but between the lot of them they should have dealt with it. It seemed to me that they all left it for each other.

 

forster may not be solely to blame for the goals it was undoubtedly a poor back pass but you have to admit that he didn't do what is asked of a goalie when he is called upon his indecision to come of his line cost us any chance of rvp missing the first one, the second one is even worse a long looping corner that forster had ample time to come out to and catch or make himself big, indecision again and rvp put it through his legs even when the shot was directly at forster

[Saint_clark]

Shots to save ratio best in premier league. Better than Boruc against championship opposition. I like Boruc and was sorry you see him go but some people need to move on and put something weighty across their knee following any defeat.

 

This means nothing as thanks to the defence he's also faced the least shots in the Prem.

[VectisSaint]

This means nothing as thanks to the defence he's also faced the least shots in the Prem.

A stat that if I recall correctly was very similar to Boruc last season at the same stage.

[Wade Garrett]

Exactly! As a former GK (at a very low level) the technique and decision making of modern GK's worries me. Not commanding their area and diving and punching the ball back into play instead of around the post are just two of the issues. Great shot stoppers they might be but overall not nearly as good as GK's from years ago.

 

Good points. The starfish technique when going to a players feet leaves them wide open for a nutmeg. Pre-Schmeichel, keepers were lambasted for letting anything in through their legs. The preference to punch, even when under little pressure, winds me right up. Joe Hart is one of the worst for it. Too much continental influence on our keepers now.

 

Go back to coaching techniques practiced by Shilton, Clemence, Jennings, Parkes, Rimmer, Cooper and Southall. Stay big, anything in the 6 yard box is yours, don't get caught under the ball, and catch whenever you can, 1 on 1 stay on your feet as long as possible and try to take them wide.

 

There was a time when we probably had 5 of the top ten keepers in the world.

[eddie]

Hmm, maybe you need to watch a highlights reel again. It certainly wasn't a "floated" free kick it was low and with pace, and the defence all moved with the ball making it impossible for Forster to come out without running the danger of running into a back peddling defender who wasn't looking.

 

If you're looking for blame look at Wanyama not tracking RVP fully and allowing him a free unhindered attempt at the ball.

 

If I have one criticism of Forster it is that he does stay on the line but that is not a fault in itself, it all depends on if he has been instructed to play like this...

 

Really interesting point Bob. Had always assumed this was just all to do with him - never thought that he may have been 'instructed' to play more conservatively and not come off his lines in certain games by Koeman & co....does anyone know if he was similar at Celtic as a comparison?

[Batman]

he is in Xavi's all star English champions league team

[Saint_clark]

he is in Xavi's all star English champions league team

 

Because he had a blinder whenever they played Barca, pulling off incredible saves. Doesn't mean he thinks he's the best English keeper.

But you're right, we should ignore everything we see with our own eyes because Xavi rates him on the back of 4-5 games.

[Batman]

Because he had a blinder whenever they played Barca, pulling off incredible saves. Doesn't mean he thinks he's the best English keeper.

But you're right, we should ignore everything we see with our own eyes because Xavi rates him on the back of 4-5 games.

 

what?

All I said was he was is in Xavi's team

[SarniaSaint]

You can blame who you like for their second goal but between the lot of them they should have dealt with it. It seemed to me that they all left it for each other.

 

This^

[Smirking_Saint]

You can blame who you like for their second goal but between the lot of them they should have dealt with it. It seemed to me that they all left it for each other.

 

Yup, one thing I always say about defending is someone has to take responsibility and nobody did. From van persie being tracked, no defender clearing the danger and forster staying on his line. It was all very very poor. I like FF but reality is Id of expected my keeper to clear me out if he had to there, abd he didnt.

 

The first cant be blamed on him, thats just crap. A terrible back pass that stiched him up, most keepers would have hesitated but he did the right thing and hesitated. Anyone who has played in offensive positions at any semi decent levels should know a keeper is weakest closest to his legs. They just are, hence why RVP stuck it there and scored.

[Goatboy]

His kicking with his weaker foot is better than Boruc' good foot.

[trousers]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30440240

 

Manchester City goalkeeper Joe Hart says his main rival for the England shirt, Southampton's Fraser Forster, is a "fantastic goalkeeper and a great guy".

[CB Saint]

He is hardly going to say "he is an absolute t0sser and is the cr4ppiest keeper ever to pull on an England jersey. If only Boruc was English"

[The9]

Good points. The starfish technique when going to a players feet leaves them wide open for a nutmeg. Pre-Schmeichel, keepers were lambasted for letting anything in through their legs. The preference to punch, even when under little pressure, winds me right up. Joe Hart is one of the worst for it. Too much continental influence on our keepers now.

 

Go back to coaching techniques practiced by Shilton, Clemence, Jennings, Parkes, Rimmer, Cooper and Southall. Stay big, anything in the 6 yard box is yours, don't get caught under the ball, and catch whenever you can, 1 on 1 stay on your feet as long as possible and try to take them wide.

 

There was a time when we probably had 5 of the top ten keepers in the world.

 

Watch your 80s techniques about catching where you can fall apart with 2014's footballs. 1994's footballs for that matter. The reason keepers punch now is that the lighter synthetic balls regain their shape more quickly so are much more prone to "knuckling" (i.e. veering) than even the Mitre Delta, never mind the Multiplex or one of the older balls. The '94 adidas Questra World Cup ball was the first one I noticed obviously swerving at lower speeds. Players are far better athletes now and also more likely to hit a ball harder and faster overall (though there have always been some with that kind of power, logically it should be more widespread).

 

So as a keeper, if you don't know where the ball is going to be when it gets to you, the safest thing to do is block it away to a safe area, rather than risk glancing it or missing it altogether and it ending up in the net.

 

The rest of it, I'm pretty sure they do all of it already, the only reason Forster didn't claim the 2nd goal as a cross was because the entire trajectory was out of his range until the moment it dipped suddenly onto Van Persie's foot. Up until that point it looked like it was floating off the pitch, but Rooney put dip and bend on it that kept it on the pitch. The ball was moving too fast for Forster to make a decision to come for it, and the entire defence was defending the edge of the area and left it to go out or at worst a cross, expecting that it would probably go off the pitch.

[Village Saint]

Watch your 80s techniques about catching where you can fall apart with 2014's footballs. 1994's footballs for that matter. The reason keepers punch now is that the lighter synthetic balls regain their shape more quickly so are much more prone to "knuckling" (i.e. veering) than even the Mitre Delta, never mind the Multiplex or one of the older balls. The '94 adidas Questra World Cup ball was the first one I noticed obviously swerving at lower speeds. Players are far better athletes now and also more likely to hit a ball harder and faster overall (though there have always been some with that kind of power, logically it should be more widespread).

 

So as a keeper, if you don't know where the ball is going to be when it gets to you, the safest thing to do is block it away to a safe area, rather than risk glancing it or missing it altogether and it ending up in the net.

 

The rest of it, I'm pretty sure they do all of it already, the only reason Forster didn't claim the 2nd goal as a cross was because the entire trajectory was out of his range until the moment it dipped suddenly onto Van Persie's foot. Up until that point it looked like it was floating off the pitch, but Rooney put dip and bend on it that kept it on the pitch. The ball was moving too fast for Forster to make a decision to come for it, and the entire defence was defending the edge of the area and left it to go out or at worst a cross, expecting that it would probably go off the pitch.

 

At last someone who actually knows something about goalkeeping. Forster like all good goalkeepers makes mistakes - c.f. Villa Park. Even Shilton made mistakes - I remember one near post howler at Coventry which cost us a win. But to blame Forster for either goal on Monday is laughable and could only be suggested by people who have never played in goal at a decent level.

[shurlock]

At last someone who actually knows something about goalkeeping. Forster like all good goalkeepers makes mistakes - c.f. Villa Park. Even Shilton made mistakes - I remember one near post howler at Coventry which cost us a win. But to blame Forster for either goal on Monday is laughable and could only be suggested by people who have never played in goal at a decent level.

 

Carragher and Neville were pretty unanimous in laying responsibility for the second goal on Forster's shoulders, sunshine. Carragher even suggested that Forster could have been quicker and more decisive in closing the angle for the first (slightly harsh in IMO). Forgive me if I take their word over yours anyday and everyday.

Edited 12 December, 2014 by shurlock

[VectisSaint]

 

The first cant be blamed on him, thats just crap. A terrible back pass that stiched him up, most keepers would have hesitated but he did the right thing and hesitated. Anyone who has played in offensive positions at any semi decent levels should know a keeper is weakest closest to his legs. They just are, hence why RVP stuck it there and scored.

Van Persie basically said it was luck on his part, 9 times out of 10 it wouldn't have gone in. I credit RvP with playing in offensive positions at a semi decent level

"The first goal is a bit of a gamble, nine out of 10 times it doesn't come off and you still have to score. I was a bit lucky there, it went through his legs but you earn your luck in those situations."

I still don't really blame FF for the first goal, everyone knows it was an awful back pass from Jose, when he could have just knocked the ball into touch. But to try to deny that FF was completely blameless is just ignoring the facts. In the end the first goal mattered not, we equalised, it was their second that beat us, and that was definitely the fault of FF, although the defence, and Big Vic in particular must shoulder some of the responsibility for losing their man.

[Smirking_Saint]

Van Persie basically said it was luck on his part, 9 times out of 10 it wouldn't have gone in. I credit RvP with playing in offensive positions at a semi decent level

"The first goal is a bit of a gamble, nine out of 10 times it doesn't come off and you still have to score. I was a bit lucky there, it went through his legs but you earn your luck in those situations."

I still don't really blame FF for the first goal, everyone knows it was an awful back pass from Jose, when he could have just knocked the ball into touch. But to try to deny that FF was completely blameless is just ignoring the facts. In the end the first goal mattered not, we equalised, it was their second that beat us, and that was definitely the fault of FF, although the defence, and Big Vic in particular must shoulder some of the responsibility for losing their man.

 

I just do not see how you can blame FF for the first really, Ill be honest, Ive never really played in goal at any level except training and 6 a sides, Ive done a bit of coaching with them if the GK coach isnt around but thats it. Mainly kicking and reaction stuff.

 

What I can say is my experience as a semi decent offensive player, that is its easier to score past a moving keeper and I would almost always suggest one on ones should be hit near to a keepers feet. And the reasoning for that is that it is quicker for him to get his hands in a position to save then for him to shift his feet once he is set. I guarantee most decent keepers will grudgingly admit that.

 

As for the9, he knows what he is on about, and has obviously played in goal which I havn't but from my point of view if I was to lay blame on one person it would be Forster, I think he is big enough to dominate that cross be it by punching (more likely due to pressure on him) or catching or the very least to communicate better.

 

I will almost guarantee that Koemans issues would have been Fontes back pass which was ****ing terrible and the fact that no single person took responsibility to 'deal' with that cross, no one. If there is no communication Id rather Big Vic collided with Forster as atleast it shows intent to clear the danger, in reality there was nothing. It surprised me a little and if it were toby or fonte at that back post I would have almost guaranteed they'd have made sure it was dealt with unless someone called 'safe' as thats basics.

 

From a marking POV aswell it appears it was zonal and not man. And in reality the run from RVP was excellent

Edited 12 December, 2014 by Smirking_Saint

[doddisalegend]

Carragher and Neville were pretty unanimous in laying responsibility for the second goal on Forster's shoulders, sunshine. Carragher even suggested that Forster could have been quicker and more decisive in closing the angle for the first (slightly harsh in IMO). Forgive me if I take their word over yours anyday and everyday.

 

Both excellent goal keepers in their day..........

[Webby]

does anyone know if he was similar at Celtic as a comparison?

 

yes, as I noted above, my celtic fan friend watched him many times and said he was prone to staying on his line.

[Batman]

Both excellent goal keepers in their day..........

 

both excellent professional players though

[KelvinsRightGlove]

I just do not see how you can blame FF for the first really, Ill be honest, Ive never really played in goal at any level except training and 6 a sides, Ive done a bit of coaching with them if the GK coach isnt around but thats it. Mainly kicking and reaction stuff.

 

What I can say is my experience as a semi decent offensive player, that is its easier to score past a moving keeper and I would almost always suggest one on ones should be hit near to a keepers feet. And the reasoning for that is that it is quicker for him to get his hands in a position to save then for him to shift his feet once he is set. I guarantee most decent keepers will grudgingly admit that.

 

As for the9, he knows what he is on about, and has obviously played in goal which I havn't but from my point of view if I was to lay blame on one person it would be Forster, I think he is big enough to dominate that cross be it by punching (more likely due to pressure on him) or catching or the very least to communicate better.

 

I will almost guarantee that Koemans issues would have been Fontes back pass which was ****ing terrible and the fact that no single person took responsibility to 'deal' with that cross, no one. If there is no communication Id rather Big Vic collided with Forster as atleast it shows intent to clear the danger, in reality there was nothing. It surprised me a little and if it were toby or fonte at that back post I would have almost guaranteed they'd have made sure it was dealt with unless someone called 'safe' as thats basics.

 

From a marking POV aswell it appears it was zonal and not man. And in reality the run from RVP was excellent

 

Agree, I was a keeper - not to a decent level though, aside like 2 county level games and a couple of trials (no danger of those ever going anywhere - basically I'm not an expert whatsoever). You're pretty spot on imo. As you prepare for a shot, you plant your feet (well, you get on your toes) and bend at your knees ready to 'spring' into a dive to attempt to save the ball.

 

That's why when a ball comes straight at your legs (unless it hits your planted legs) it is so hard to save, you are putting all of your weight onto them to help sring to save the ball.

 

I have no idea where RvP has got those figures from, but you see a disproportionate amount of goals going in through keepers legs. It's not coincidence, strikers no full well this is the hardest area for a keeper to save. I've seen plenty of pundits comment on that too.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

both excellent professional players though

 

Aye, so was Xavi - who ranks him in his greatest British team ever.

[Batman]

Aye, so was Xavi - who ranks him in his greatest British team ever.

 

bit one sided, you would agree lol

[doddisalegend]

both excellent professional players though

 

No doubt but I wouldn't pay to much attention to Peter Schmeichel if he was giving his opinion on how to play midfield

[Smirking_Saint]

Agree, I was a keeper - not to a decent level though, aside like 2 county level games and a couple of trials (no danger of those ever going anywhere - basically I'm not an expert whatsoever). You're pretty spot on imo. As you prepare for a shot, you plant your feet (well, you get on your toes) and bend at your knees ready to 'spring' into a dive to attempt to save the ball.

 

That's why when a ball comes straight at your legs (unless it hits your planted legs) it is so hard to save, you are putting all of your weight onto them to help sring to save the ball.

 

I have no idea where RvP has got those figures from, but you see a disproportionate amount of goals going in through keepers legs. It's not coincidence, strikers no full well this is the hardest area for a keeper to save. I've seen plenty of pundits comment on that too.

 

I didnt interpret it quite the same as Vectis, he wasnt talking about legs I think he was talking about the angle of the shot more really. He didnt have a lot to work with.

[shurlock]

No doubt but I wouldn't pay to much attention to Peter Schmeichel if he was giving his opinion on how to play midfield

 

Not quite the same is it. Carragher and Neville were both defenders and captains with plenty of experience of organising set pieces. Makes them pretty well-qualified to decide whose responsibility it was clear the danger, based on the flight of the ball, the position of the defenders relative to the keeper and the movement of opposition strikers.

Edited 12 December, 2014 by shurlock

[Wade Garrett]

At last someone who actually knows something about goalkeeping. Forster like all good goalkeepers makes mistakes - c.f. Villa Park. Even Shilton made mistakes - I remember one near post howler at Coventry which cost us a win. But to blame Forster for either goal on Monday is laughable and could only be suggested by people who have never played in goal at a decent level.

 

Forster was at fault for not claiming a floating ball.

 

The he ball does move more now when it's pinged in at pace, but too many keepers punch floating crosses now instead of catching.

 

I do know a little about this particular subject.

[Turkish]

Not sure how anyone can defend Forster on this one. I like him a lot and think he will develop into a very good keeper but a lofted ball into the six yard box should be his to claim or clean out every day of the week. The first one not his fault at all.

[Leicestersaint]

It is time for Forster and the defence to get back to regular clean sheets! Hopefully FF will strike a run of good form.

[Turkish]

It is time for Forster and the defence to get back to regular clean sheets! Hopefully FF will strike a run of good form.

 

The thing people need to remember is like a lot of our signings we haven't signed the finished article, we've signed a player with potential. He's still inexperienced at top flight and although no guarantees I'm sure he'll improve, his performance at arsenal and against Barcelona in the champions league show he's got tons of ability. With experience and coaching he'll get the decision making side of his game right.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

I didnt interpret it quite the same as Vectis, he wasnt talking about legs I think he was talking about the angle of the shot more really. He didnt have a lot to work with.

 

Ah ok, misunderstanding. Apologies.