DuncanRG Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 Surely we are not going to qualify for Europe or finish 7th this season so we will have gone backwards. We've gone forwards (to Europe) under Koeman and look to be going backwards from that now. What's the net direction of travel? Too early to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sad saints fan Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 Gazza Martina Fonte VVD Taggart Romeu Classie Reed Davies Long Pelle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 Gazza Martina Fonte VVD Taggart Romeu Classie Reed Davies Long Pelle. Team will look nothing like that I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sad saints fan Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 Probably not ,Just expressing a view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 And to think that just a couple of months back some were worried about Barcelona filching him from us. Hero to zero...fickle fans perhaps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted 10 January, 2016 Share Posted 10 January, 2016 Forster/Stek(dependent on how fit Forster is) Cedric(fresh legs as long as fit) Fonte Van Dijk Bertrand(assuming he is over his illness) Reed Romeu Clasie(though i doubt Reed will be picked) JWP if not as i think Davis is in need of a rest. Mane Pelle Tadic (Though if Pelle isn't 100% i'd save him for game against WBA) I'd like to see seager get half an hour if behind or level but that's not likely to happen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancouver Saint Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 Does anyone have stats on how far we a running in games vs the opposition? Fitness/energy seems to be an issue. Having watched Poch's Spurs team they are young and out-run opponents...that's where we used to be going. We can't seem to come back after going down (which is now a habit)...it's more than confidence I think, lack of energy/fitness is a factor. What do others think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Saint Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 Maybe if Pelle is back we might get a game out of him, as he is a first pick right now for Italy and at his ripe old age (in Footballing terms) on the verge of going to a International tournament, and I am pretty sure that the Italian manager picks his team based on playing well for your domestic team rather than the name on the back of the shirt and the club you play for, like the dopey Old Goat managing Ingerland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 Shall we go back to the mostly-Brit, young, high energy approach with a team working as a team? Seems to work against all the overpaid divas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 Despite members getting £10 off this match it doesn't appear to have resulted in a big take up, loads of seats left for this , most of the Itchen North will be empty at this rate. Watford have "sold out" the 2500 allocation, i don't know why we don't just give them block 43 as well rather than just leaving it empty. Good following from them midweek. My prediction - 1v1 draw , frustrating game as we miss a number of good chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanimal Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 I keep thinking about having a Brit team instead of the divas, but then keep realising they were possibly more mercenary than the JF's! Shaw, Chambers, Clyne, Lambert, Morgan, Lallana sold; JR and FF long term injured; remember when we sang '4-0 to The England' not that long ago? (Morgan counts as a Brit in my book….) Get the lads in RoKo!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 League debut maybe, he made his club debut in the FA Cup in 2012, second half substitute for Dan Harding. Still not clear what is happening with Jack, he played for our u21s on Monday which I think means he cannot go out on loan again this season, but maybe I am wrong and U21 games don't count. Fairly sure U21 games don't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 Shall we go back to the mostly-Brit, young, high energy approach with a team working as a team? Seems to work against all the overpaid divas... Unfortunately the core of that side is now overpaid divas who play for someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 Fairly sure U21 games don't count. Think you must be right, but cannot find out for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 Gazza Martina Fonte VVD Taggart Romeu Classie Reed Davies Long Pelle. "there's been a murdur !" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kermitsaint Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 Amazing how poch is some kind of hero all of a sudden... Not a hero . Just a significantly better manager . Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 Fairly sure U21 games don't count. Tell that to Hatem Ben Arfa. He was denied a move to Nice last January because he'd played for Newcastle U21s in August 2014 and then was loaned to Hull. Even the best lawyers Nice could buy couldn't argue their way with an U21s don't count case.The case is FIFA and TAS jurisprudence now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 Tell that to Hatem Ben Arfa. He was denied a move to Nice last January because he'd played for Newcastle U21s in August 2014 and then was loaned to Hull. Even the best lawyers Nice could buy couldn't argue their way with an U21s don't count case.The case is FIFA and TAS jurisprudence now. Maybe, but potentially a very different situation: (1) Ben Arfa is not an Under 21 player (he is twenty-eight now). He may have played in an U21 match but as an over-age player. Stephens is still officially an u21. (2) Ben Arfa's transfer was international and so governed by FIFA rules which can be different to FA (3) Stephens' loans are considered Emergency Loans (an FA concept), which may or may not have a bearing on his further transfers. I don't know the answer to this one, but comparing it to Ben Arfa may not be particularly insightful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 Maybe, but potentially a very different situation: (1) Ben Arfa is not an Under 21 player (he is twenty-eight now). He may have played in an U21 match but as an over-age player. Stephens is still officially an u21. (2) Ben Arfa's transfer was international and so governed by FIFA rules which can be different to FA (3) Stephens' loans are considered Emergency Loans (an FA concept), which may or may not have a bearing on his further transfers. I don't know the answer to this one, but comparing it to Ben Arfa may not be particularly insightful. We shall see, don't see why Stephens is still considered as an U21 though, he's 22 in a short time I think. Was the loan to Boro an emergency loan though, thought it was initially for the season , aren't emergency loans those outside the TW and for a maximum of 92 days? I am not at all sure that he's reloanable but we shall have to see how it pans out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADutchSaint Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 We've gone forwards (to Europe) under Koeman and look to be going backwards from that now. What's the net direction of travel? Too early to tell. The manager really becomes pretty irrelevant when you sell your best players and try to replace them with cheaper, younger, less experienced (what ever) players. 9 out of 10 times you will go backwards, not a manager in the world is going to change that. I have seen this **** going on at my local team here in Holland for over 10 years now and it just how it is. You sell your best players, hope you can go forwards with that money but instead the money gets blown on players who just werent good enough and a year later you do the exact same thing again. One year you go forwards, the next year backwards and you repeat that cycle over and over but that has very little to do with the managers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 We shall see, don't see why Stephens is still considered as an U21 though, he's 22 in a short time I think. Was the loan to Boro an emergency loan though, thought it was initially for the season , aren't emergency loans those outside the TW and for a maximum of 92 days? I am not at all sure that he's reloanable but we shall have to see how it pans out. Premier League Rule A.1.181 (which also governs the Premier League U21 and U18 Leagues) “Under 21 Player” means a Player under the age of 21 as at the 1st January in theyear in which the Season concerned commences (i.e. for Season 2015/16 born on or after1st January 1994). Jack Stephens was born on 27 Jan 1994 (according to Wiki) so is considered an U21 player for the remainder of this season. Like you my initial thought was that he could not be loaned again this season, but there have been several views on this that contradict this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 Not a hero . Just a significantly better manager . Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk In your opinion ? Is that a fact or you just posting as one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 Unfortunately the core of that side is now overpaid divas who play for someone else. when they get on the pitch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 The manager really becomes pretty irrelevant when you sell your best players and try to replace them with cheaper, younger, less experienced (what ever) players. 9 out of 10 times you will go backwards, not a manager in the world is going to change that. I have seen this **** going on at my local team here in Holland for over 10 years now and it just how it is. You sell your best players, hope you can go forwards with that money but instead the money gets blown on players who just werent good enough and a year later you do the exact same thing again. One year you go forwards, the next year backwards and you repeat that cycle over and over but that has very little to do with the managers. Managers get millions of pounds to manage football teams are you suggesting they are a waste of money and anybody could do the job. Some managers are better than others I am quite impressed with Mopo he did well with us and is doing well with Spurs as their League Position shows. Koeman seems OK when things go well but not when things go wrong and his tinkering with the team is not helping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 Football is as they say a funny old game Jose won the league and was named manager of the year , Hes been sacked and now Ron is sailing close to the wind and he was manys choice for manager of the year its crazy how they suddenly become bad managers ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 Football is as they say a funny old game Jose won the league and was named manager of the year , Hes been sacked and now Ron is sailing close to the wind and he was manys choice for manager of the year its crazy how they suddenly become bad managers ! It wasn't that long ago when Gary Monk was flavour of the month too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 Football is as they say a funny old game Jose won the league and was named manager of the year , Hes been sacked and now Ron is sailing close to the wind and he was manys choice for manager of the year its crazy how they suddenly become bad managers ! It's a game driven by results, Chelsea's weren't good, neither are ours so the respective managers pay for that. When you lose 8 games out of 10 then you're sackable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADutchSaint Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 How on earth is the manager ever irrelevant? You sell players you move on. Whatever is left, you judge the manager on whether he is getting the best out of that squad. Whether he has spent the money wisely. So far, unfortunately, Koeman hasn't done well on either count this season. Other managers will have signed different players, picked different teams and used different tactics. Might be better or might be worse, but let's not pretend it doesn't make any difference. A manager becomes irrelevant when you sell your best players and you cant/dont spent that money one-on-one for replacements, 9 out of 10 times you will go back in quality. Its pretty logical and there isn't a manager in the world thats going to change that. You can give Guardiola 10 million pounds to find a replacement for Schneiderlin but ill give you great odds that he's not going to find someone of the same quality. And btw, do you know exactly if a player was signed/scouted by the club or by the manager? You can make a solid argue/prediction that guys like Clasie and Pelle were brought in because of Koeman but who scouted/brought in Mane, Gardos, Juanmi, Cedric, VVD, Romeu etc? Do you think none of them would be here if Koeman wasnt the manager? I doubt that, i think managers have far less power at clubs like Southampton (who dont have all the money in the world) then they pretend and what people think they have. At the end, the club is responsible for the squad and the manager is responsible for what happens on the pitch and for the results but again you will go backwards from time to time if you keep selling your best players, especially when you also throw a few injury's of important players into the mix, no matter who the manager is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 The manager really becomes pretty irrelevant when you sell your best players and try to replace them with cheaper, younger, less experienced (what ever) players. 9 out of 10 times you will go backwards, not a manager in the world is going to change that. I have seen this **** going on at my local team here in Holland for over 10 years now and it just how it is. You sell your best players, hope you can go forwards with that money but instead the money gets blown on players who just werent good enough and a year later you do the exact same thing again. One year you go forwards, the next year backwards and you repeat that cycle over and over but that has very little to do with the managers. We won't fall into that trap because of our superior scouting set up, best academy in Europe and our state of the art facilities. We are the showcase club that everyone just below Champions League level wants to join. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kermitsaint Posted 11 January, 2016 Share Posted 11 January, 2016 In your opinion ? Is that a fact or you just posting as one? Of course its my opinion. Odd you ask as you write your own opinion as fact in each and every post . How about you start a poll ? I guess you would only do that if you felt you were in the majority .... Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 12 January, 2016 Share Posted 12 January, 2016 Of course its my opinion. Odd you ask as you write your own opinion as fact in each and every post . How about you start a poll ? I guess you would only do that if you felt you were in the majority .... Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk Just significantly a better manager Is what you posted, that`s a statement not an opinion..hope this helps.. Start a poll..waste of time.. If we had done one this last year it would have been hugely different in results to one run this year because we are not winning at moment. Players and manager are **** this year but not last is how it works for the shortsighted not a big drop in form, which is exactly what it is...a drop in form Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 12 January, 2016 Share Posted 12 January, 2016 Just significantly a better manager Is what you posted, that`s a statement not an opinion..hope this helps.. Start a poll..waste of time.. If we had done one this last year it would have been hugely different in results to one run this year because we are not winning at moment. Players and manager are **** this year but not last is how it works for the shortsighted not a big drop in form, which is exactly what it is...a drop in form Maybe Aug - Jan last year was an exceptional period and the teams true capability is actually what has been demonstrated in Feb '15 - Jan '16 which is quite a large period across which to assess form? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 12 January, 2016 Share Posted 12 January, 2016 Football is as they say a funny old game Jose won the league and was named manager of the year , Hes been sacked and now Ron is sailing close to the wind and he was manys choice for manager of the year its crazy how they suddenly become bad managers ! Funny what happens when the board keep selling the teams best players and miss out on a signing whom Koeman was texting all summer.... Add to that the injuries to Jayrod Forster (who I am convinced would save a lot of the goals we're conceding and inspire confidence at the back) and it isn't hard to see why he is struggling this year. The fans should be less fickle on this one. When multiple departments struggle the head that should roll is the one overseeing them all. If the academy, first team and recruitment/transfer committee are all under performing then Les Reed manages them all... Koeman is after all just the head of the first team "department"... A department where his best players are being sold from under him, the academy is apparently not producing as required, and new signings are not of the required standard. At the end of the day, RK can only play the available players. Which leaves Long and Juanmi up front, and stek in goal.... What do fans really expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 12 January, 2016 Share Posted 12 January, 2016 Koeman needs to stop picking systems and shoe horning players in that don't suit them. More Arsenal and less Palace (2), WHU and Norwich. Every group of players have a natural tempo, shape, blend and are comfortable getting the best results from them. A pair of centre backs don't relate when another is added, in fact all three drop in performance as it's not comfortable. Too many non scoring midfielders result in a lack of goals. Fast players are great but not if the passes are played behind them, or delayed until the space behind defenders has disappeared. All things that are happening in this team except against Arsenal, 4-4-2, get the ball up front quickly with the greatest space behind the defenders, high tempo, two banks of four. The two forwards revelled in the quick ball and the comfort of playing off each other. Pelle, Mane and Tadic our favoured front line have only managed two goals in their last 37 combined appearances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashby Saint Posted 12 January, 2016 Share Posted 12 January, 2016 Koeman needs to stop picking systems and shoe horning players in that don't suit them. More Arsenal and less Palace (2), WHU and Norwich. Every group of players have a natural tempo, shape, blend and are comfortable getting the best results from them. A pair of centre backs don't relate when another is added, in fact all three drop in performance as it's not comfortable. Too many non scoring midfielders result in a lack of goals. Fast players are great but not if the passes are played behind them, or delayed until the space behind defenders has disappeared. All things that are happening in this team except against Arsenal, 4-4-2, get the ball up front quickly with the greatest space behind the defenders, high tempo, two banks of four. The two forwards revelled in the quick ball and the comfort of playing off each other. Pelle, Mane and Tadic our favoured front line have only managed two goals in their last 37 combined appearances. My Watford supporting mate says that teams have played 3 at the back in recent games against them because they play two up front. It worked for Spurs because (a) they have Toby and (b) can score. It would have worked for Newcastle too, but they just couldn't score. I suspect that we will play 3 at the back and we will lose either 1:0 or 2:1 having missed loads of chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintZamboni Posted 12 January, 2016 Share Posted 12 January, 2016 If we actually score inside the first 20 minutes then we'll get a lift and go on to win at a canter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 12 January, 2016 Share Posted 12 January, 2016 If we actually score inside the first 20 minutes then we'll get a lift and go on to win at a canter. Not convinced - not sure we have it in us to keep clean sheets and win to 0 this season. They're also very dangerous up top with Deeney and Ighalo. Should be a good game, they're a very good side this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Rees Posted 12 January, 2016 Share Posted 12 January, 2016 Is there a press conference today? Would be good to know the situations of Forster, Jay Rod, and also Caulker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 12 January, 2016 Share Posted 12 January, 2016 Is there a press conference today? Would be good to know the situations of Forster, Jay Rod, and also Caulker Yes, starts in 1 hour according to OS/YouTube. Don't expect anything useful in it though. Useful stuff is usually in the second part which is embargoed until 10pm (?). The live bit in an hour will probably concentrate on burning questions about Van Gaal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Katalinic's 'tache Posted 12 January, 2016 Share Posted 12 January, 2016 Is there a press conference today? Would be good to know the situations of Forster, Jay Rod, and also Caulker It'll also be interesting to hear if there are any imminent incomings, particularly with others below us beginning to strengthen, and whether the plan has shifted beyond just signing a single striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncoboy Posted 12 January, 2016 Share Posted 12 January, 2016 It'll also be interesting to hear if there are any imminent incomings, particularly with others below us beginning to strengthen, and whether the plan has shifted beyond just signing a single striker.[/quote They have this view they don't need to tell us anything If they dont sign a striker now they never wlll If Koeman loses the next three matches he will be gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No 2 to Maybush Posted 12 January, 2016 Share Posted 12 January, 2016 My Watford supporting mate says that teams have played 3 at the back in recent games against them because they play two up front. It worked for Spurs because (a) they have Toby and (b) can score. It would have worked for Newcastle too, but they just couldn't score. I suspect that we will play 3 at the back and we will lose either 1:0 or 2:1 having missed loads of chances. I think if RK plays 3 at the back in this home game it will show he really has lost the plot. Square pegs, round holes, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 12 January, 2016 Share Posted 12 January, 2016 I think if RK plays 3 at the back in this home game it will show he really has lost the plot. Square pegs, round holes, etc. Or shows consistency of thinking: he feels 3 CBs is best against teams that play two up top. Problem versus Palace in both games was that they don't really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 12 January, 2016 Share Posted 12 January, 2016 Koeman: "Pelle is definitely back for the Watford game but don't know yet if he'll start" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 12 January, 2016 Share Posted 12 January, 2016 Adam Blackmore: "If Stekelenburg fails to shrug off a hamstring issue then Forster will start" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 12 January, 2016 Share Posted 12 January, 2016 Koeman (when asked how close we are to bringing in new players in this window): "No, we're no closer to bringing anyone in. If we do it will be just one player, no more" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 12 January, 2016 Share Posted 12 January, 2016 Koeman: "We won't be replacing Caulker. We will use the young ones if we need to" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No 2 to Maybush Posted 12 January, 2016 Share Posted 12 January, 2016 Or shows consistency of thinking: he feels 3 CBs is best against teams that play two up top. Problem versus Palace in both games was that they don't really. QED. So if does,would that be demonstrating consistency or obstinancy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 12 January, 2016 Share Posted 12 January, 2016 Koeman's answer about Hesketh was pretty odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 12 January, 2016 Share Posted 12 January, 2016 Crazy how none of the Journos in the presser have mentioned the possibility of Forster playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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