Spurs 2-1 Saints - Game thread

[Billy the Kidd]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

If you think about it though, the core of this team is still the same team who have struggled under Pellegrino and Hughes - and to a certain extent with some of them, Puel.

So, Ings, Redmond, JWP, Romeu, Bednarek, Bertrand, McCarthy, Armstrong, Vestergaard. I wouldn't say any of the core players are his signings, apart from KWP - and he has significantly improved us in that position.

I think with a fairer crack of the whip and more ability to build his own squad more suited to his way, it would be a different story. Certain players will always have flaws and I've seen these flaws in this core group across 3 different managers now. Decent technically in part, but the wrong mix and certainly not deep enough squad wise to play this way over a season.

As I've said before - the club either back him, because this is the way he plays and that's it. Or they let him go and we bring a new manager in, maybe someone more conservative and less gung ho. But the reality is we'll probably finish in similar positions, just less extremes.

Oh I agree, and as said I should be given more time. But, we are giving contracts to many of those players you list,  which must come from Ralph. 

It may seem controversial,  but I'd consider selling JWP this summer, and use that as part of the rebuild, along with Ings and Jammick.

But I'd assess where we are after 10, maybe 15 games next season.

Anyhow, just to make sure, I'm off to cheer on Leocester to a hard fought, 9 man victory against WBA!

 

Edit...also, surely it is the managers job to also play to the strengths of the players also at his disposal, which lately hasn't clearly gone to plan.  I really still think though this can work out under Ralph, but if we are going to dick around again in the transfer window, I'm not sure of the point in keeping him.

Edited 22 April, 2021 by Billy the Kidd

[VictiAbNonem]

Before the semi-final I was thinking that it might be an idea to play Salisu in a defensive midfield role. Thought he might be a good replacement for Romeu's much missed tackling in midfield, and with his pace could have covered any forward runs from their midfield. 

Seemed a pretty risky new ploy for a big game, so I just thought it rather than posting it! Given how the game went though, I think we should have taken more risks. And now, seeing how well he played last night out of position, I reckon we should give him a try there.

It does mean playing Bednarek or Stephen at CB, but gives us far better defensive cover from midfield than we get from JWP or Armstrong. Stu's covered really well at CM, but he's better further forward or out wide; JWP could play with a bit more freedom, as I think he was when playing with Romeu. 

We need to do something to shore up the big defensive hole in our midfield. If Ralph can't trust Jankewitz, is this worth a try?

[S-Clarke]

11 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Oh I agree, and as said I should be given more time. But, we are giving contracts to many of those players you list,  which must come from Ralph. 

It may seem controversial,  but I'd consider selling JWP this summer, and use that as part of the rebuild, along with Ings and Jammick.

But I'd assess where we are after 10, maybe 15 games next season.

Anyhow, just to make sure, I'm off to cheer on Leocester to a hard fought, 9 man victory against WBA!

 

Edit...also, surely it is the managers job to also play to the strengths of the players also at his disposal, which lately hasn't clearly gone to plan.  I really still think though this can work out under Ralph, but if we are going to dick around again in the transfer window, I'm not sure of the point in keeping him.

It's a shame it has to be like that to be honest, but I see where you're coming from re: the selling those 3. It's probably our only real option to take if we want to add some real starting quality to the side, but it just seems counterproductive that we have to sell our starting quality to sign starting quality.

Just hope we can get sold soon and be able to operate a tiny bit more flexibly. I have a bit more confidence in the scouting now at least.

[Billy the Kidd]

7 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

It's a shame it has to be like that to be honest, but I see where you're coming from re: the selling those 3. It's probably our only real option to take if we want to add some real starting quality to the side, but it just seems counterproductive that we have to sell our starting quality to sign starting quality.

Just hope we can get sold soon and be able to operate a tiny bit more flexibly. I have a bit more confidence in the scouting now at least.

Yep it is a shame, but I also think whilst I value JWP, I think Ralph's style demands pace and moving the ball quickly,  which James doesn't have either in abundance.

I imagine he would be fetching a fair wedge, not sure how much but I'd expect north of £30m.

I'm out of messages now, think I will sign up proper in the morning!

[JustinSFC]

9 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Yep it is a shame, but I also think whilst I value JWP, I think Ralph's style demands pace and moving the ball quickly,  which James doesn't have either in abundance.

I imagine he would be fetching a fair wedge, not sure how much but I'd expect north of £30m.

I'm out of messages now, think I will sign up proper in the morning!

If we sell Prowse and stick with Ralph, then Ralph's system falls apart completely.

He's played every game for 2 years straight under Ralph I heard mentioned, or something like that.

Even if we sold Prowse and got £30m it would take at least £25M to get anywhere near a Premier League replacement.

Without Prowse in the team I reckon we'd be one of the bottom 3.

[Saints foreva]

Another game and another surrender after a good first half performance. The mentality of the players is so weak. 

We are desperate for a good summer transfer window this year but that is only happening if we get a takeover - that seems very unlikely to me. 

[Shroppie]

3 hours ago, DT said:

But Bale might not have thought about trying to chip Forster, given his size. God knows why he was dropped. I thought McCarthy looked as slow and ponderous as ever - useless distribution and authority and gives the back line collywobbles. Ralph's man management is another big cross against his name

It wasn't a chip. It was a hard-hit, curling shot into the top corner.

Mccarthy actually helps his defence by coming for crosses. Forster puts pressure on by staying rooted to his line.

[Micky]

1 hour ago, JustinSFC said:

If we sell Prowse and stick with Ralph, then Ralph's system falls apart completely.

He's played every game for 2 years straight under Ralph I heard mentioned, or something like that.

Even if we sold Prowse and got £30m it would take at least £25M to get anywhere near a Premier League replacement.

Without Prowse in the team I reckon we'd be one of the bottom 3.

Got to be honest I think he is odds on to get offers from elsewhere,  I wouldn't be surprised to see him go after this season.

[hackedoff]

46 minutes ago, Saints foreva said:

Another game and another surrender after a good first half performance. The mentality of the players is so weak. 

We are desperate for a good summer transfer window this year but that is only happening if we get a takeover - that seems very unlikely to me. 

Hopefully Gao will realize that he will get more dosh if his asset is still in the Prem. Leave it till next year,maybe not.

[Nemi]

2 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

It may seem controversial,  but I'd consider selling JWP this summer, and use that as part of the rebuild, along with Ings and Jammick.

I don’t disagree with this, but it would be a huge risk. I’d happily do it though, squads need a good refresh after a few years and it’s time we had one. Would there be any takers though?

[Jeremy]

I've scrolled through the post-mortem posts on this game and the usual comments about who should have done better and what could be changed now and in the future.

It's the same thing after every game now.

Unfortunately, despite the fantastic early season form, this team is just plain poor and it's hard to see things changing. We should probably be fearing the worst that's coming soon.

 

 

Edited 22 April, 2021 by Jeremy

[austsaint]

9 hours ago, Shroppie said:

The first sentence is bizarre. Any team should be able to hold out for 30 mins? So if you're 1-0 up at 30 mins you should never concede? Simply ridiculous.

It's easy to agree with the second para in hindsight but what Ralph did wasn't an unreasonable move. Unfortunately it seemed to reinstate the Cup team formation and we dried up.

Mccarthy is our best keeper. If you think Bale scored with a chip, you weren't watching. It was a hard-hit, perfectly accurate shot intl the far too corner. Either brilliant or lucky, but no keeper gets anywhere near it.

 

And to further reinforce your point, McCarthy was obscured by Salisu who had made a great block”.   No criticism of AM; it was a sweet strike from Bale.

[John B]

A bit disappointing but both Leicester and Spurs have better players than us and both challenging for CL places  so unsurprising

[gordonToo]

1 hour ago, John B said:

A bit disappointing but both Leicester and Spurs have better players than us and both challenging for CL places  so unsurprising

I agree. At its most simplistic, the game is all about good players and we just do not have enough of them. Ralph's system is good for disrupting the opposition but if that  advantage cannot be converted into goals it ultimately becomes self defeating when we tire in the second  half of games. As I've said before there are just 3 options. Invest in the squad, change the system or change the manager.

 

[Charlie Wayman]

13 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Oh I agree, and as said I should be given more time. But, we are giving contracts to many of those players you list,  which must come from Ralph. 

It may seem controversial,  but I'd consider selling JWP this summer, and use that as part of the rebuild, along with Ings and Jammick.

But I'd assess where we are after 10, maybe 15 games next season.

Anyhow, just to make sure, I'm off to cheer on Leocester to a hard fought, 9 man victory against WBA!

 

Edit...also, surely it is the managers job to also play to the strengths of the players also at his disposal, which lately hasn't clearly gone to plan.  I really still think though this can work out under Ralph, but if we are going to dick around again in the transfer window, I'm not sure of the point in keeping him.

Mañana! Mañana! Always Mañana!

What is the point of kicking the bloody can down the road? The problems won't go away, they are too deep rooted and endemic. Hasenhüttl has had nigh on three years to sort out the mess that he has created. We have seen the best of him and the worst

We have to grasp the bloody nettle and grasp it now, get rid and give a new man a chance to look at this squad and decide who stays and who comes in. 

We can talk this thing to bloody death but it changes nothing.

[Billy the Kidd]

53 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Mañana! Mañana! Always Mañana!

What is the point of kicking the bloody can down the road? The problems won't go away, they are too deep rooted and endemic. Hasenhüttl has had nigh on three years to sort out the mess that he has created. We have seen the best of him and the worst

We have to grasp the bloody nettle and grasp it now, get rid and give a new man a chance to look at this squad and decide who stays and who comes in. 

We can talk this thing to bloody death but it changes nothing.

Well, maybe time is all it needs.

I’m not for one minute not concerned by our poor form, but I do believe Ralph has massive potential with us. 

You say the issues are too deep rooted and endemic, which to me sounds like you believe that they go further than the manager, which is likely the case. So getting rid of a manager that has successfully kept us in the league with these issues going on is a bad idea? Is that what you mean?

I am for one looking forward to doing an Adkins, and drawing a blue line under this season, seeing how Ralph is supported over the summer with players - both keeping the ones we want and buying the ones we need.

If we dont back him over the summer, then I’d agree his style would worry me more next season if we cant do great things this summer.

Try and be happy though Charlie, the sun is shining and we may surprise you in the next transfer window...

[Billy the Kidd]

13 hours ago, JustinSFC said:

If we sell Prowse and stick with Ralph, then Ralph's system falls apart completely.

He's played every game for 2 years straight under Ralph I heard mentioned, or something like that.

Even if we sold Prowse and got £30m it would take at least £25M to get anywhere near a Premier League replacement.

Without Prowse in the team I reckon we'd be one of the bottom 3.

So not necessarily, i just think James was the best at being disciplined in the squad, and is an ok player, but I stick to what I said about pace and moving the ball quickly - with Saints James doesn’t do that.

We will be able to replace, our model, whilst being underperforming over the last 3 years, has been to buy £10-£15 mil players. And I think we will keep going with that, and maybe our scouting this year will be better than previous, let’s face it, it couldn’t get much worse could it.

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, gordonToo said:

I agree. At its most simplistic, the game is all about good players and we just do not have enough of them. Ralph's system is good for disrupting the opposition but if that  advantage cannot be converted into goals it ultimately becomes self defeating when we tire in the second  half of games. As I've said before there are just 3 options. Invest in the squad, change the system or change the manager.

 

We had a talk once by the manager of Bognor Regis. Even for his league he said that if you showed him a club’s wage bill he could tell you where they’d finish in the table.

[kitch]

14 hours ago, Shroppie said:

It wasn't a chip. It was a hard-hit, curling shot into the top corner.

Mccarthy actually helps his defence by coming for crosses. Forster puts pressure on by staying rooted to his line.

Forster has been coming off his line much earlier since his return, to his credit.

[Lord Duckhunter]

5 hours ago, John B said:

A bit disappointing but both Leicester and Spurs have better players than us and both challenging for CL places  so unsurprising

So how come we got dicked by West Brom, lost to Brentford . We’ve got better players and a Saints win would have been unsurprising. Losing to better players when you give your all is one thing, rolling over without a fight is another. We have been pony this year, losing to better players, worse players, even fucking 9 players. The buck stops with the manager, stop with the excuses. 

[Billy the Kidd]

55 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

So how come we got dicked by West Brom, lost to Brentford . We’ve got better players and a Saints win would have been unsurprising. Losing to better players when you give your all is one thing, rolling over without a fight is another. We have been pony this year, losing to better players, worse players, even fucking 9 players. The buck stops with the manager, stop with the excuses. 

So, do you feel we were 'pony' (I cant believe I just wrote that word) for every game this year?

I thought we played well in some and got nothing, such as Villa at home. I agree other games we could have played better, and at times down right shit, but not every game. Even v spurs we were ok.

And yea, some of the blame goes on Ralph, but do you attach no blame to the players who go out there? I get you could say that Ralph is the one who picks them,  but on occasions some of the performances have been questionable, and he only has so much to chose from.

I think Ralph has made huge mistakes, such as playing Bednarek at RB which I think cost us in those games, but the failure surely is collective, or is Ralph at fault for some players unable to pass a simple ball 10 yards?

[sadoldgit]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

So how come we got dicked by West Brom, lost to Brentford . We’ve got better players and a Saints win would have been unsurprising. Losing to better players when you give your all is one thing, rolling over without a fight is another. We have been pony this year, losing to better players, worse players, even fucking 9 players. The buck stops with the manager, stop with the excuses. 

Yet not all that long ago we had amassed more points than anyone else in the league. Even you must be able to see that we haven’t been terrible all season. I’ll give the Brentford game but not long after that went an a brilliant run that only came to an end when key players picked up injuries.

[DT]

18 hours ago, Shroppie said:

It wasn't a chip. It was a hard-hit, curling shot into the top corner.

Mccarthy actually helps his defence by coming for crosses. Forster puts pressure on by staying rooted to his line.

I just don't think he does that as much any more

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Yet not all that long ago we had amassed more points than anyone else in the league. Even you must be able to see that we haven’t been terrible all season. I’ll give the Brentford game but not long after that went an a brilliant run that only came to an end when key players picked up injuries.

Pony 

[Billy the Kidd]

32 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Pony 

So, we didnt go on a brilliant run?

You must really enjoy being so miserable.

It's weird, but everytime I read your posts they always sound like Eyore narrating them.

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

So, we didnt go on a brilliant run?

You must really enjoy being so miserable.

It's weird, but everytime I read your posts they always sound like Eyore narrating them.

We were top for a few hours, if that’s amassing more points than anyone else, then my cocks a carrot. Had our game been on the Monday night TV, we wouldn’t have been top. We had played a game more than everyone else. “Stop the fucking count” . 

Edited 23 April, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[Chapel End]

Just now, Lord Duckhunter said:

We were top for 23 hours, if that’s amassing more points than anyone else, then my cocks a carrot. Had our game been on the Monday night TV, we wouldn’t have been top. We had played a game more than everyone else. “Stop the fucking count” . 

He wasn't talking about us being top just the great run, so if you are denying that happened then you are an idiot

[Billy the Kidd]

6 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

We were top for a few hours, if that’s amassing more points than anyone else, then my cocks a carrot. Had our game been on the Monday night TV, we wouldn’t have been top. We had played a game more than everyone else. “Stop the fucking count” . 

You literally just said what suited your rhetoric without looking and answering what I wrote. 

We were top for a very short period, but we were top, but to be top, we must have showed outstanding form for an extended period.

Chapel Road said it better than I could...

[East Kent Saint]

I enjoyed watching our winning run on free to air TV It was refreshing to watch Saints win several games and actually look forward to the next one . Currently it’s painful .

[Lord Duckhunter]

19 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Yet not all that long ago we had amassed more points than anyone else in the league. 

 

17 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Pony 

 

16 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

So, we didnt go on a brilliant run?

You must really enjoy being so miserable.

It's weird, but everytime I read your posts they always sound like Eyore narrating them.

 

12 hours ago, Chapel End said:

He wasn't talking about us being top just the great run, so if you are denying that happened then you are an idiot

I think you need to look at the conversation before calling someone an idiot. According to Soggy we “ amassed more points than anyone else” which was the point I was addressing. Of course in the Ralph cult this is sacrilege 

Edited 24 April, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[Lord Duckhunter]

12 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

You literally just said what suited your rhetoric without looking and answering what I wrote. 

We were top for a very short period, but we were top, but to be top, we must have showed outstanding form for an extended period.

Chapel Road said it better than I could...

I was answering Soggy, not yours. 

[Billy the Kidd]

1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I was answering Soggy, not yours. 

Fair enough, I was only replying to your response to my comment, where it wasnt said we were top.

Although not sure if you feel elevated above other posters by constantly referring this ‘cult’ thing.

t really makes you appear pious and quite ridiculous.

Now, i expect you wouldn’t give a fuck about some random fuckwit saying this on a forum, but it really doesn’t make sense to me, just because people see things differently to you.

[sadoldgit]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

 

 

 

I think you need to look at the conversation before calling someone an idiot. According to Soggy we “ amassed more points than anyone else” which was the point I was addressing. Of course in the Ralph cult this is sacrilege 

What is this “cult of Ralph” of which you speak? 😂 I can only see some people looking at a situation and making reasonable comments rather than just ignoring parts of a scenario which don’t fit an agenda. Ralph has been criticised, quite rightly, for errors made. Some people can also see that he did a very good job for a period of time getting the best out of limited resources. It doesn’t make him the “messiah” just as it doesn’t make him “pony”.

[Chapel End]

15 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

What is this “cult of Ralph” of which you speak? 😂 I can only see some people looking at a situation and making reasonable comments rather than just ignoring parts of a scenario which don’t fit an agenda. Ralph has been criticised, quite rightly, for errors made. Some people can also see that he did a very good job for a period of time getting the best out of limited resources. It doesn’t make him the “messiah” just as it doesn’t make him “pony”.

Good post mate, sums it up perfectly. 

[John B]

On 23/04/2021 at 12:49, Lord Duckhunter said:

So how come we got dicked by West Brom, lost to Brentford . We’ve got better players and a Saints win would have been unsurprising. Losing to better players when you give your all is one thing, rolling over without a fight is another. We have been pony this year, losing to better players, worse players, even fucking 9 players. The buck stops with the manager, stop with the excuses. 

 

 

 I doubt many of the Saints players would get into the Spurs teams 

 

Saints  have hardly ever beaten Spurs in the League so I find it unsurprising that we lost especially as we are currently playing poorly

[Lord Duckhunter]

45 minutes ago, John B said:

 

 

 I doubt many of the Saints players would get into the Spurs teams 

 

 

How many West Brom players would get in our team?