Spurs 2-1 Saints - Game thread

[Billy the Kidd]

4 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Had it happened up the other end, the same clowns claiming no foul would be screaming for it. Must be var, referee and pundits all against us. 

Exactly, and all along we only need people like you against us...

[davefizzy14]

Why was Fraser dropped? Why is Minamino not getting a look in now? Why is Jankewitz not getting any opportunities. 

[Toussaint]

Just now, Streaky said:

Why are we so unfit. We hardly press anymore but we still look shattered come the 2nd half. Ralph needs to go he doesn't know how to stop the rot

Sure they just aren’t completely  knackered ?

[S-Clarke]

Just now, igsey said:

The really worrying thing is that 29 year-old Ryan Mason with fuck all managerial experience can work out how to nullify our system and change things at half time.

I wouldn't say so much it's a case of a manager changing it up, the players are professional and they didn't turn up in the first half. So they were automatically going to be better and do the things they should have automatically been doing in the first half. The problem was two fodl really, we expelled all our energy in the first half and iddn't really capitalise and then when they did improve, as they were going to, we just didn't have the energy in us to repel it.

I don't really know what to do, I'd change the entire squad up to be honest with one that is more suited to how we clearly want to play, but we all know that's not going to happen. Clubs in limbo and a very, very, very dangerous limbo.

[wadesmith]

If Fulham beat Burnley, Newcastle and us, then things might get interesting.

[VictiAbNonem]

1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

That was a game which summed up our season and demonstrated the two sides of this team.

1st half, high press, counter pressing, quick movement in the final third and just too quick for Spurs in thought and play. We were fitter, stronger, more energy. We just had too much, everything was positive and things were going well, players looked 20ft taller than the opposition - nothing bad happening to derail us. The reality is that during those phases we need to capitalise and score as many goals as we can at full throttle.

2nd half, as you can almost guarantee, the opposition will improve. They pushed up higher and on top of that you could visibly see our team getting sapped of energy, physically and more worryingly mentally. Bit by bit you saw our energy draining, it was like a computer game really - you see the players on green and full health at the start, and by probably 50mins we were all on a tiny red line.

In those situations you rely on 2 things to get you over the line. 1) The substitutes to be the right ones, and to impact the game and replace that energy and 2) Leaders who galvanise the group and pull us through the periods of dips, but sadly that didn't happen and never does happen. Diallo ruined our midfield and just didn't get up to the game at all. Moussa, well, what more can you say. Had enough of him. All legs and absolutely nothing else. As has been said many a time, when the going gets tough they all shrink by 10 ft and pass responsibility to each other. That might sound harsh, but it's what I've seen for years with this group.

On the good points, Tella - excellent, full of energy in the first half, lots of positive running - Redmond and Moussa could learn a lot from him. Ings and Adams movement and link up was as good as it's been for a while, so that was a positive. Armstrong in the middle was outstanding, driving forward and gobbling up the space Spurs were leaving. Sadly he only seems to have around 40mins in him.

Same old story really. Shit squad depth that is absolutely out on it's arses fitness wise, and a severe lack of mental toughness. End this season now please, we all need a total reset and we need to work out what the fuck is up with our fitness levels - and squad depth. 

Like your assessment, except I think you missed Salisu from the positives. He made some crucial defensive interventions, and showed his pace and some skill going forwards. I reckon he could be a decent player for us.

[Shroppie]

9 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Answer the f***ing question!

Djenepo Is the one who gets kicked. He throws his leg across the shot to try and block it and gets kicked for his efforts.

I think I agree.

But what's more wrong is that there was handball by a Spurs player before the pen. Any handball leading to a goal can be reviewed by VAR and if there's contact with the arm, it's a free kick, no goal. But VAR couldn't review it as it didn't lead to a goal, but a pen. How can that be right?

And if Djenepo had pulled out of the block and the shot had gone in, the VAR check would then have disallowed it. Stupid.

[Killers Knee]

Assuming we sell Ings & Vestergaard only players I would welcome back next season are: Forster, Bednarek, JWP, Armstrong & Adams.  The others are too weak both physically and mentally.

[Jimmy_D]

2 minutes ago, Archers Road Stand said:

If that's handball then so is the one from Vestergaard seconds before. 

I hope Djenepo is on the out list in the summer. He isn't good enough. 

Vestergaard's arms were in a natural position and he didn't have time to get out the way.

Alderweireld had the same time but his arms aren't in a natural position.

We've been shafted. Again.

[DT]

There simply must be better managers out there, surely?

[Saint Billy]

14 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Did anyone really believe we’d win at half time? It obvious we’d lose and Spurs wouldn’t be as shit second half. I’m afraid that was as predictable as it gets. 

Tell Egg that. 

[Micky]

9 minutes ago, Streaky said:

I dont think they will ever sack him. They are too gutless, we are a shambles of a club and in free fall for the foreseeable. Ings and vestagaard will be gone. Then we will sleep walk into the championship.

I don't think we'll sleepwalk into it, we'll be running full pelt at it. We are woeful from top to bottom, no fight, no bollocks, no hope. 

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, VictiAbNonem said:

Like your assessment, except I think you missed Salisu from the positives. He made some crucial defensive interventions, and showed his pace and some skill going forwards. I reckon he could be a decent player for us.

Sorry, very fair point - did mean to mention him. He was very good, comms kept calling him a young left back etc, it was easy to forget he's a centre back by trade - but he adapted well, I think he shut Bale out of the game most of it.

Obviously helps defending when you have 3 CB's in the box as well. I just hope the club don't see that and think we can skimp on a left back, because Salisu will be a good centre back for us - don't see him as a left back going forward.

[trousers]

1 minute ago, Shroppie said:

I think I agree.

But what's more wrong is that there was handball by a Spurs player before the pen. Any handball leading to a goal can be reviewed by VAR and if there's contact with the arm, it's a free kick, no goal. But VAR couldn't review it as it didn't lead to a goal, but a pen. How can that be right?

And if Djenepo had pulled out of the block and the shot had gone in, the VAR check would then have disallowed it. Stupid.

I think that's what rankles with people... The lack of logic in the way VAR has been applied.

(Yes, I know that observation won't pass  the Lord Duckhunter critique test, but his wrath does get me aroused, so win-win)

[Jonnyboy]

15 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

There’s absolutely no point in debating you, you’re as one eyed as the come. Never ever accept decisions that go against us. If you really think Djenepo was fouled I fear for your sanity. 

The irony. 

[badgerx16]

There is no conspiracy against us, we are not being 'shafted' by the officials or VAR - we are shit and Ralph's Plan A has been found out, revealing he has  no Plan B.

[S-Clarke]

Too much focus on VAR or decisions. We didn't deserve to win the game on that 2nd half showing.

We had a decision in our favour through Moura's offside, but we still couldn't repel them and it was a clear penalty. Who and what handled in the build up, who knows, but Moussa was there again with all his legs causing carnage. That's all that matters and it was clear.

VAR or referees had nothing to do with that result.

Edited 21 April, 2021 by S-Clarke

[Micky]

4 minutes ago, wadesmith said:

If Fulham beat Burnley, Newcastle and us, then things might get interesting.

I hope it happens because something needs to kick this lot into gear.  It's alright whinging and blaming VAR, the referee and everything else but the reality is the players need to take responsibility and sort this fucking shyte out. 

[macca155]

Went into this game expecting a loss. The first 30 mins gave hope, a lot actually, but inevitably the team collapsed in the 2nd half. 

I thought Salisu looked decent, handled Bale as best he could, but Bale even at 50% is a handful for any defender.

Diallo, Djenepo and Redmond,  deserved to be replaced. Walcott is off his game, and should really have made way for Minimano in the 2nd half.

Playing McCarthy over Forster, was unnecessary.

Tactics are simply no good, the team has to last 90 mins.

Subs were poor but that's all we have.

Should Ralph go? I guess it would depend on whether there is an alternative and new players.

Can't see even our owner putting up with this much longer.

[Jonnyboy]

6 minutes ago, Killers Knee said:

Assuming we sell Ings & Vestergaard only players I would welcome back next season are: Forster, Bednarek, JWP, Armstrong & Adams.  The others are too weak both physically and mentally.

And all five of those players have some pretty significant flaws in their games. 

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, Micky said:

I hope it happens because something needs to kick this lot into gear.  It's alright whinging and blaming VAR, the referee and everything else but the reality is the players need to take responsibility and sort this fucking shyte out. 

But so many on here tell us that there is absolutely no chance of us going down.

[Shroppie]

22 minutes ago, Chapel End said:

This.

They didn't even consider it, why the fuck not?

Because they can only review attacking handball if it leads to a goal. Utterly stupid. Anything leading up to a goal, a pen or whatever should be open to review.

And, as said above, any contact with the arm by an attacker leading to a goal is handball. No question of arm position or anything. So if the shot had gone in, no goal. But no goal, just a pen, so no VAR review. VAR has ridiculously restrictions and isn't fit for purpose.

[saint michael]

I don’t know why it’s so surprising. Its the mirror image of majority of games in this half of the season. 
 

who sat there at HT and thought we would win?
 

I would like to hear the manager talk about what specifically he has been wanting them to do that they are not. If he believes the tactics are right, if he believes the training is right, then something must be wrong.... what is it.
 

If he believes it’s the players try something new, it can’t be any worse than this surely....what could be worse than 9 0

i truly believe the players aren’t as bad as this but the coaching, tactics, match set up and management stink

 

 

 

[captainchris]

10 minutes ago, Killers Knee said:

Assuming we sell Ings & Vestergaard only players I would welcome back next season are: Forster, Bednarek, JWP, Armstrong & Adams.  The others are too weak both physically and mentally.

Bednarek 😂😂😂😂

Made my night that one! 

[Chez]

as well as we played in the first  half. To me it looked like Spurs were lost without Kane and we felt much more confident. When Ings went off the inverse occurred.  The second was woeful. So many panicky clearances and jack shit on the break. Walcott, Tella, Adams etc. have to hurt them much more when we get a break chance. We just don't scare teams like they do to us.

In the second half we suddenly looked like a side full of under 18s. kicking it away anywhere or nowhere. I've said this so many times. We give the ball away cheaply in their third far too often, we then consume so much energy recovering, covering gaps (which the midfield does quite well,) and protecting the back four. But the longer the game goes on those midfielders get tired, the gaps widen, their is less protection, less bodies and players like Son take advantage. We hide our deficiencies, but for only so long. 

That also affects our attack. We get tired and the quality goes, which means the final parts of the game we create next to nothing. We are almost never pressing near the end of games for equalisers. we have faded a long time ago. Its not a lack of fitness. Certainly not a lack of effort. Its too much wasted effort because players don't keep the ball and use the ball well. The only remedy is better players.

 

[Micky]

Just now, badgerx16 said:

But so many on here tell us that there is absolutely no chance of us going down.

I know.  I don't think we will go down either to be honest,  but it wouldn't bother me one iota if we did.  After the total capitulation that this season has become,  who knows, we may win some games in the championship and at least lose some of the embarrassing displays and statistics that have become synonymous with SFC.

[JCBSaint]

Am sure we will have a cheap option new manager in place next season after we lose 8 of the first 9 matches next year then valiantly stay up on the final day... that’s how it usually goes, we are spoilt aren’t we?   We just have no fight, no spirit, spuds were there for the taking, how many times have we said that?? Half the players aren’t good enough and Ralph seems to tinker too much moving players out of position, tactically I just don’t thk he has it, it’s a shame I like Ralph but it’s not working , the club just meanders along going nowhere, you don’t here from the owners and it’s the fans who have to suffer. We should be moving forward every season but we take two steps forward then two steps back. We go nowhere! 

[trousers]

6 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

VAR or referees had nothing to do with that result.

The truth is, we'll never know.

If VAR never existed, the lino may well have flagged for the Spurs offside that overturned their 2nd goal and the ref would have probably still given a free kick instead of a penalty. Ergo, the existence of VAR *may* have changed the result of today's game... or it might not. We can't say definitively one way or the other. 

[Teddeer]

How many more feeble capitulations from winning positions and how many more points have to be tossed away before Ralph twigs there is a whole chapter missing from his beloved play book? It has become embarrassingly predictable now.

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

as well as we played in the first  half. To me it looked like Spurs were lost without Kane and we felt much more confident. When Ings went off the inverse occurred.  The second was woeful. So many panicky clearances and jack shit on the break. Walcott, Tella, Adams etc. have to hurt them much more when we get a break chance. We just don't scare teams like they do to us.

In the second half we suddenly looked like a side full of under 18s. kicking it away anywhere or nowhere. I've said this so many times. We give the ball away cheaply in their third far too often, we then consume so much energy recovering, covering gaps (which the midfield does quite well,) and protecting the back four. But the longer the game goes on those midfielders get tired, the gaps widen, their is less protection, less bodies and players like Son take advantage. We hide our deficiencies, but for only so long. 

That also affects our attack. We get tired and the quality goes, which means the final parts of the game we create next to nothing. We are almost never pressing near the end of games for equalisers. we have faded a long time ago. Its not a lack of fitness. Certainly not a lack of effort. Its too much wasted effort because players don't keep the ball and use the ball well. The only remedy is better players.

 

I'd say in the end it does boil down to fitness issues, probably like you said a lot of self inflicted fatigue through our poor control of games. But we do empty out of energy as the game goes on.

To counter that, we're not going to get better players, so is the only other way here another approach? I like the approach of the counter press/high energy football, but if this squad doesn't suit that and we don't have the funds to build a squad to suit that, then....do we go and get a manager who fits this squad better? 

I'm fully behind Ralph and the philosophy, but if the club aren't willing to back that philosophy with the right players then we're kind of at a complete dead end and it's going to hurt the club.

[Jonnyboy]

3 minutes ago, Chez said:

as well as we played in the first  half. To me it looked like Spurs were lost without Kane and we felt much more confident. When Ings went off the inverse occurred.  The second was woeful. So many panicky clearances and jack shit on the break. Walcott, Tella, Adams etc. have to hurt them much more when we get a break chance. We just don't scare teams like they do to us.

In the second half we suddenly looked like a side full of under 18s. kicking it away anywhere or nowhere. I've said this so many times. We give the ball away cheaply in their third far too often, we then consume so much energy recovering, covering gaps (which the midfield does quite well,) and protecting the back four. But the longer the game goes on those midfielders get tired, the gaps widen, their is less protection, less bodies and players like Son take advantage. We hide our deficiencies, but for only so long. 

That also affects our attack. We get tired and the quality goes, which means the final parts of the game we create next to nothing. We are almost never pressing near the end of games for equalisers. we have faded a long time ago. Its not a lack of fitness. Certainly not a lack of effort. Its too much wasted effort because players don't keep the ball and use the ball well. The only remedy is better players.

 

Still hard to explain our Champions League form for all of 2020?

[Lord Duckhunter]

12 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

There is no conspiracy against us, we are not being 'shafted' by the officials or VAR - we are shit and Ralph's Plan A has been found out, revealing he has  no Plan B.

Correct. 

[S-Clarke]

3 minutes ago, Jonnyboy said:

Still hard to explain our Champions League form for all of 2020?

It needs to be said, 100%. You can't ignore that run of form, that is what we've all seen and why I'm a massive fan of Ralph and his approach.

You have to caveat it slightly though - that year was bookended by two breaks, so we had a lot of recovery time during 2020 and quite a weird/unknown situation to come back to in June which we seemed to adjust to better. The problem is over a full season I don't think the squad has the legs for this type of football, that seems to be showing it's self clearer by the week at the moment.

Edited 21 April, 2021 by S-Clarke

[bangkoksaint]

Ralph just been interviewed on TalkSPORT. Wow!! Same old tripe and it’s little wonder we are where we are!!

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Nothing will change for next season, giving where we have been told we are going to doo our recruiting.

[Chris cooper]

34 minutes ago, Chapel End said:

Eddie Howe 🤣

Yep better than the clueless cunt Ralph ... made a mess of saints.. absolute joke of a manager !! 
He looks lost it’s embarrassing for all of us .. do the right thing Ralph and get the fuck out of it !! Crying after beating Liverpool wen they are having a worse season than us was the start of it and Sunday was the end... tonight’s result I couldn’t give a flying fuck cos I won’t be paying to watch that shit wen we are allowed ! 

[Lallana's Left Peg]

1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

It needs to be said, 100%. You can't ignore that run of form, that is what we've all seen and why I'm a massive fan of Ralph and his approach.

You have to caveat it slightly though - that year was bookended by two breaks, so we had a lot of recovery time during 2020 and quite a weird/unknown situation to come back to in June which we seemed to adjust to better. The problem is over a full season I don't think the squad has the legs for this type of football, that seems to be showing it's self clearer by the week at the moment.

 

Whilst I don't disagree with you I look at Leeds and they have been able to sustain it over a season and we haven't.  Maybe a lack of access to recovery facilities doesn't help us.  But when you consider Leeds have only just been promoted and have had to adjust to the jump in quality they have been able to play games with relentless energy and we have not and are 10pts ahead of us and it'll probably be 15 by June.  They can also manage games and we can not.  There is a problem somewhere completely independent of our ability to maintain energy levels, and even then I think we should question why we can't piece together a game for 90mins.

Edited 21 April, 2021 by Lallana's Left Peg

[VictiAbNonem]

1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

It needs to be said, 100%. You can't ignore that run of form, that is what we've all seen and why I'm a massive fan of Ralph and his approach.

You have to caveat it slightly though - that year was bookended by two breaks, so we had a lot of recovery time during 2020 and quite a weird/unknown situation to come back to in June which we seemed to adjust to better. The problem is over a full season I don't think the squad has the legs for this type of football, that seems to be showing it's self clearer by the week at the moment.

Are there any mountains where the players can train at altitude near Southampton?

[Baird of the land]

Just now, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Nothing will change for next season, giving where we have been told we are going to doo our recruiting.

Yeah that's my worry. The atrocious mentality isn't going to be solved by signing more very rough young potentials.

[IronCitySaint]

Saints games take one of two forms in 2021.

1. Good first half followed by utter capitulation in the second.
2. Shit for the whole game.

Today we decided on number 1 following on from number 2 on Sunday and last Monday. If we are not 4-0 up at half time then we are not getting anything. Once again Saints prove to be the nicest and easiest team for anyone to play against, but the stupid substitution when Ings got injured certainly set the pattern of play. The midfield pair were doing fine until it was disrupted and we ended the game with much the same team as in the semi with very much the same level of performance. It amazes me the management team can't see this. 

[S-Clarke]

Just now, Lallana's Left Peg said:

 

Whilst I don't disagree with you I look at Leeds and they have been able to sustain it over a season and we haven't.  Maybe a lack of access to recovery facilities helps.  But when you consider Leeds have only just been promoted and have had to adjust to the jump in quality they have been able to play games with relentless energy and we have not.  They can also manage games and we can not.  There is a problem somewhere completely independent of our ability to maintain energy levels, and even then I think we should question why we can't piece together a game for 90mins.

Leeds have a better squad than us, I'd say anyway. Much more depth and players more suited to that way of playing.

They were able to go and throw £25m at Diego Llorente, 30m at Rodrigo (albiet, he hasn't done much), £25m at Raphinia and it took them above us in quality during the summer. I don't rate our players as much as some do.

[Badger]

7 hours ago, Badger said:

Does Bednarek get near enough to the opponent these days to "clatter them" ?

Perhaps leave it until the 85th minute , if the game is lost, and someone should seriously clatter Son as payback for his feeble 'going over ' in the cup last season. And to wipe that nauseating inane grin off his face. 

There's always next season I suppose. 

[Chez]

9 minutes ago, Jonnyboy said:

Still hard to explain our Champions League form for all of 2020?

it is, but I put the end of 19/20 season down to the fact we acted very professionally during the shut down and when games recommenced we were right on it, whilst the rest were on the beach. Far play to Ralf for getting our minds right.

I think also we coped well with the empty hollow stadiums really well, whilst our opponents seemed to switch off. We crack under the pressure, but are good on the training ground perhaps. The games in empty stadiums have the same feel. 

Into 20/21 season and we carried that confidence we had gained through. When we lost players due to injury the wheels came off and we have not been able to get them back on despite players now being fit. 

That's all I've got. Why do you think we did well and now its gone pear shaped?

 

[Sunglasses Ron]

Can’t wait for this season to end. I think we all need a break from this rubbish.

I know it’s the same for every club, but we look in desperate need of time out, to reset, and hopefully return to more familiar match day routines (kick off times, fans etc.).

I personally hope we look to rebuild with Ralph still in charge, but I appreciate that view is probably not welcomed.

Such a shame after the promising start, but we appear to have blown our load by trying to run a marathon at 100m speed.

 

[trousers]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

it is, but I put the end of 19/20 season down to the fact we acted very professionally during the shut down and when games recommenced we were right on it, whilst the rest were on the beach. Far play to Ralf for getting our minds right.

I think also we coped well with the empty hollow stadiums really well, whilst our opponents seemed to switch off. We crack under the pressure, but are good on the training ground perhaps. The games in empty stadiums have the same feel. 

Into 20/21 season and we carried that confidence we had gained through. When we lost players due to injury the wheels came off and we have not been able to get them back on despite players now being fit. 

That's all I've got. Why do you think we did well and now its gone pear shaped?

 

That sounds like a fair analysis to me Chez

[CB Fry]

32 minutes ago, wadesmith said:

If Fulham beat Burnley, Newcastle and us, then things might get interesting.

Nice to see the belief that Fulham are just one more match away from going on an unstoppable winning run has still not died. Jesus wept.

[Hatch]

Thought JWP was great in first half.  Completely disappeared in second. 
 

subs only negatively contributed. 
 

Che’s early chance should have been taken.  He hit the ball at the only 5% of the goal that was covered 

Benarek  although he did ok tonight needs a rest 

[Toussaint]

After considered deliberations, I have arrived at the conclusion we are not very good, bordering on very bad. The only  mitigating factor preventing the ruling being wholly in favour of very bad is that we are good in parts, just like “the curates egg”

 

Citation... his honour Lord Toussaint’s verdict in the case of Southampton FC V the premier league the fa cup and league cup competitions. April 2021. 

[Toussaint]

2 minutes ago, Hatch said:

Thought JWP was great in first half.  Completely disappeared in second. 
 

subs only negatively contributed. 
 

Che’s early chance should have been taken.  He hit the ball at the only 5% of the goal that was covered 

Benarek  although he did ok tonight needs a rest 

If anyone is utterly burned out it must be him.(JWP)

Edited 21 April, 2021 by Toussaint

[VictiAbNonem]

I know we were shit in throwing away a lead that should have been bigger after our first half. 

But we were really impressive in that first half.

Against a team that has, as far as I can tell, 13 players who are better paid than our best paid player. 

One of their players cost, and costs, more than half our squad.

We do quite well on a shoestring Premier League budget.