Current PL managers better than Ralph

[Lord Duckhunter]

19 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

I know, its pretty fucking pathetic isnt it. Gets a hard on over us losing

Complete and utter pony. I posted regularly during Nigel Adkins, Poch and Koemans spell, when we won most weeks. I posted throughout Ralph’s “legendary”  spell during covid. Hell, I even managed a dozen posts when we were top of the league, which took some doing it only lasted hours. Personally, I don’t know when people post, I certainly don’t study the results and the correlation between wins and posts, but then I’m not obsessed with certain posters. It’s actually nice that you care about when I post as your posts  don’t normally register with me. I’ll keep my eye on them now though, you’re obviously a top top supporter. 

[miserableoldgit]

4 hours ago, Sarisbury Saint said:

Didn’t say it wasn’t.

You said that he waited until the game was lost before making changes. The game was lost after 15 mins. Were you expecting him to change things before that?

[Sarisbury Saint]

51 minutes ago, TWar said:

Bednarek who was a bench player before Ralph and now is a prem regular, yeah.

Romeu is definitely better than when Ralph joined, he often didn't play under Hughes and Pellegrino.

Both Broja and Tino are better than they were previously to Ralph. By the time of their first game they'd been training with Ralph for some time.

No mention of the others I listed? That seems biased to me...

A bench player because we had better options. Now we have little choice and if Lyanco didn’t get injured he would still be a bench player.

[whelk]

Lord knows I don’t have much time for many of LD’s posts but clear he is a true supporter and goes to games

[TWar]

4 minutes ago, Sarisbury Saint said:

Celtic can take the credit for that.

Take your rose tinted spectacles off and go and watch them.

Doing it in the Scottish league is not the same as doing it in the prem. Also he played a completely different position in Scotland as Ralph plays him as a 10.

So no, Celtic didn't do that.

Here is a question. If Ralph doesn't improve players and the team he inherited was on the verge of relegation and since then we have spent second least in the league, why haven't we been relegated? Why have we never even been close?

[Sarisbury Saint]

1 minute ago, miserableoldgit said:

You said that he waited until the game was lost before making changes. The game was lost after 15 mins. Were you expecting him to change things before that?

Ah sorry, mis-read it, yes of course your right.

[TWar]

2 minutes ago, Sarisbury Saint said:

A bench player because we had better options. Now we have little choice and if Lyanco didn’t get injured he would still be a bench player.

We started Hoedt?!

[Sarisbury Saint]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

Doing it in the Scottish league is not the same as doing it in the prem. Also he played a completely different position in Scotland as Ralph plays him as a 10.

So no, Celtic didn't do that.

Here is a question. If Ralph doesn't improve players and the team he inherited was on the verge of relegation and since then we have spent second least in the league, why haven't we been relegated? Why have we never even been close?

He came back a better player

[The Kraken]

14 minutes ago, Sarisbury Saint said:

He came back a better player

Correct, it’s a bit daft to say Ralph had much to do with improving Moi when he hasn’t been here.

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, The Kraken said:

Correct, it’s a bit daft to say Ralph had much to do with improving Moi when he hasn’t been here.

To be blunt pretty much everything he’s said today has been daft 

[Whitey Grandad]

9 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Correct, it’s a bit daft to say Ralph had much to do with improving Moi when he hasn’t been here.

Perhaps he improved Moi by loaning him out?  🥴

[OttawaSaint]

RH would be a much better manager if he got out of his own way. He seems to want to be hailed as some sort of master tactician by fiddling with the formation and set up, then when he realizes he's fucked up he freezes and doesn't to much do fix it.

We seem to be some sort of experiment to him to try out crazy shit like that ridiculously high line etc.

Edited 12 April, 2022 by OttawaSaint

[Sarisbury Saint]

10 hours ago, TWar said:

Doing it in the Scottish league is not the same as doing it in the prem. Also he played a completely different position in Scotland as Ralph plays him as a 10.

So no, Celtic didn't do that.

Here is a question. If Ralph doesn't improve players and the team he inherited was on the verge of relegation and since then we have spent second least in the league, why haven't we been relegated? Why have we never even been close?

I couldn’t care less what league he played in, at the end of the day he came back a better more confident player.  Credit only goes to Ralph for letting someone else coach him and make him better.

ps Champions League he looked pretty good in aswell, or is that low level in your world ?

[AlexLaw76]

I’d say KwP, Salisu and JwP are the the players evidently improved with Ralph

some have gone backwards, whilst loads have been bombed out.

Decent manager, nothing more. with amazing PR though!

Edited 11 April, 2022 by AlexLaw76

[Matthew Le God]

9 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I’d say KwP, Salisu and JwP are the the players evidently improved with Ralph

some have gone backwards, whilst loads have been bombed out.

Decent manager, nothing more. with amazing PR though!

Can you give names of players for both categories please.

[danjosaint]

I don't think Salisu is improving,  if anything he's getting worse, yes I know he's young and ideally would need some experience next to him, I think Livramento, Broja and Djenepo have all been stifled almost over coached, he hasn't improved Bednarek he's only in side as we've nothing else

[Holmes_and_Watson]

21 hours ago, TWar said:

Doing it in the Scottish league is not the same as doing it in the prem. Also he played a completely different position in Scotland as Ralph plays him as a 10.

So no, Celtic didn't do that.

Here is a question. If Ralph doesn't improve players and the team he inherited was on the verge of relegation and since then we have spent second least in the league, why haven't we been relegated? Why have we never even been close?

I'm trying to remember which player arriving to us off the Old Firm conveyor belt, when I finally stopped being a little dismissive of their quality. 😊 Each of them were already skilled. But their time there improved them.

Celtic struggled a bit through some of Mo's time there. But there's a lot to be said about playing regular football for a big team that's expected to win every week. It's less the position than using a number of related skills against opposition who see it as a massive game every week.

Ralph may also have improved him, in that he performs a function within the playbook tactics.

I agree though that I could see a number of managers without the same tactical focus leading us down. There's possibly fewer of those around though, and those in charge have their shortlist. It's a risk, but one we'll be taking soon enough, one way or another.

Edited 11 April, 2022 by Holmes_and_Watson

[TWar]

7 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

I'm trying to remember which player arriving to us off the Old Firm conveyor belt, when I finally stopped being a little dismissive of their quality. 😊 Each of them were already skilled. But their time there improved them.

Celtic struggled a bit through some of Mo's time there. But there's a lot to be said about playing regular football for a big team that's expected to win every week. It's less the position than using a number of related skills against opposition who see it as a massive game every week.

Ralph may also have improved him, in that he performs a function within the playbook tactics.

I agree though that I could see a number of managers without the same tactical focus leading us down. There's possibly fewer of those around though, and those in charge have their shortlist. It's a risk, but one we'll be taking soon enough, one way or another.

My hope is when we move Ralph on we'll have known he's off for a year prior and can better plan for the transition. I certainly wouldn't sack him after a season where we lost 3 key players, were tipped to go down, and were safe from the end of January basically.

[Billy the Kidd]

11 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I’d say KwP, Salisu and JwP are the the players evidently improved with Ralph

some have gone backwards, whilst loads have been bombed out.

Decent manager, nothing more. with amazing PR though!

To be fair with KWP, he just needed to play, Im not sure this is a direct result of Ralph improving him at all, or just giving him experience by playing games, i think that is largely down to the player.

JWP has improved for sure, Salisu I think is young and inexperienced I guess to judge, but can give Ralph credit there.

But outside this small sample, i cant think of many others who have developed.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

10 minutes ago, TWar said:

My hope is when we move Ralph on we'll have known he's off for a year prior and can better plan for the transition. I certainly wouldn't sack him after a season where we lost 3 key players, were tipped to go down, and were safe from the end of January basically.

I'd be very surprised if he went anywhere this season. I suppose he could lose the dressing room, or we get a few more of those fluke cuffings in consecutive games. Something drastic happening.

I've the concern that if our run continues, that it also goes into next season. Much like I had that concern last season/into this one. Then, there would be some questions.

It remains to be seen how the transition works. In some places, things go on as normal. In plenty of others, the outgoing manager is seen as a lame duck, and ends up leaving sooner than planned. The club have their contingency plans either way.

When he goes, it will be interesting to see how the new manager changes a team that has ridgedly followed Ralph's instructions. Or tried to at least.

We've played some cracking stuff at times this season; We're doing better than I expected; There's always room for improvement, from the players, recruitment, and Ralph. That's what I focus on, repeating it like a mantra after Saturday, right enough.😊

 

[Dr Who?]

All depends on the resources each of the managers have. Stick any manager in Saints and they will do pretty much the same mid table. Maybe flirt with getting into Europe every now and then, and then a little bit with relegation. We need more money to go to any other level. 

Every team looks like they are going to the next level and then are pants again. We did it a few years back, punching above our weight. What we miss is winning something when we get the chance. it is always going to be Man City, Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man U in the main while the others have there moment for a season, maybe 2 and all move about. Even the mighty West Ham who have been having a great season have been terrible since the turn of the year, and Wolves will be back to normal next season.

You have everyone reaching 9th getting glowing reviews in the press, and that included us, not that long ago, Villa, Palace… who is next to take there turn in the amazing 9th slot. 

Football is fickle. I want Ralf to be backed, give him a little money to strengthen. I would like to see him have a lot of money, but that maybe will need to be at another club. I think he will walk away at the end of the season, because if I was him I would think ‘I have done as much as I can with the resources I have’. 

 

[Whitey Grandad]

I just wish he’d stick to a winning formula once he’s found it instead of tinkering just for the sake of it.

[Chris cooper]

5 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I just wish he’d stick to a winning formula once he’s found it instead of tinkering just for the sake of it.

Exactly this .. he thinks he has the personnel at his disposal to try these tactics and silly formations then lands up getting pumped… we have a decent 11 on a good day. 
But won’t stick it to it wen we win ! The 1/4 final we never played our strongest side but give city a good game for 20-25 mins but couldn’t keep it up.

Bednerak choosing his countries needs over his employer who pays him says it all about Ralph for me. It was a Chance to get to Wembley and another semi final .. maybe that didn’t mean as much to him and bednerak .. 

[The Cat]

We were on a 12 game unbeaten run or whatever it was not long ago using largely the same formation that went 3-0 down in no time against Chelsea on Saturday. 

The game that ended the run was a 4-0 battering by Villa using the normal 4-2-2-2 formation. 

Should he change the formation or not? I've seen some people say our tactics are too predicable and then others complaining that he keeps tinkering. Which is it?

 

[Sarisbury Saint]

16 minutes ago, The Cat said:

We were on a 12 game unbeaten run or whatever it was not long ago using largely the same formation that went 3-0 down in no time against Chelsea on Saturday. 

The game that ended the run was a 4-0 battering by Villa using the normal 4-2-2-2 formation. 

Should he change the formation or not? I've seen some people say our tactics are too predicable and then others complaining that he keeps tinkering. Which is it?

 

Adjust and adapt at the time.  Liverpool, Villa and now Chelsea were glaringly obvious very early on.

Edited 12 April, 2022 by Sarisbury Saint

[Badger]

18 hours ago, Chris cooper said:

 

Bednerak choosing his countries needs over his employer who pays him says it all about Ralph for me. It was a Chance to get to Wembley and another semi final .. maybe that didn’t mean as much to him and bednerak .. 

Not sure Ralph can be held accountable for what goes on in Bednarek's head, any more than Koeman was responsible for Wanyama's 'toys out the pram' moment before we crashed out of Europe a few years ago.

The starting team v Man City wasn't as I'd ideally have liked but that didn't really cost us. It was probably going to plan when he looked to bring on Broja and Adams, but in the space of a minute Elyonouusi dithered and lost possession when well placed, and Salisu gave a needless and soft penalty away. At that point we seemed to be in a good position. But the lack of quality, and inexperience of two of our starting team cost us. 

Edited 13 April, 2022 by Badger
Prevent an MLG card being issued

[DT]

On 12/04/2022 at 20:06, Dr Who? said:

All depends on the resources each of the managers have. Stick any manager in Saints and they will do pretty much the same mid table. Maybe flirt with getting into Europe every now and then, and then a little bit with relegation. We need more money to go to any other level. 

Every team looks like they are going to the next level and then are pants again. We did it a few years back, punching above our weight. What we miss is winning something when we get the chance. it is always going to be Man City, Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man U in the main while the others have there moment for a season, maybe 2 and all move about. Even the mighty West Ham who have been having a great season have been terrible since the turn of the year, and Wolves will be back to normal next season.

You have everyone reaching 9th getting glowing reviews in the press, and that included us, not that long ago, Villa, Palace… who is next to take there turn in the amazing 9th slot. 

Football is fickle. I want Ralf to be backed, give him a little money to strengthen. I would like to see him have a lot of money, but that maybe will need to be at another club. I think he will walk away at the end of the season, because if I was him I would think ‘I have done as much as I can with the resources I have’. 

 

Also, he’s just not a very good manager. But all the above holds. I think we should ensure safety and move on in the close season. What would be the point of him playing out his final season. (Guess he knew this). For me it’s his obstinacy that sticks most in my craw. Tinkering. Shoehorning players into the wrong positions.  Of changing things early enough. Ludicrous selections. Favourite players. Lack of man management skills. Lack of motivation. Sure, he’s ‘about our standard’, but that’s depressing. I’m sure there must be better, and coaching teams with more ability than the average goalkeepers we have. Perhaps if we ship 5 against Arsenal it will change for us. But that knife through butter mentality and frailty will only go I think with a firm, maybe boring, defensive hand at the tiller. 

[Nemi]

On 10/04/2022 at 13:21, Dman said:

It’s why we go on stupid runs imo. We find a formula, it works, we’re great. Other teams suss said formula and it takes us 10-15 of trying the same thing, until we change it up. 
 

My honest opinion is that Ralph is a very good ‘coach’ on the training ground, has a clear idea of how he wants to play amd can coach the team to implement that. 
 

He’s a terrible tactician though and at this level, terrible tacticians get found out. 

We didn’t even really get sussed out tbh, he changed it himself when we were on a high, taking out Perraud, for no apparent reason.

[trousers]

On 10/04/2022 at 13:33, Dman said:

The slump hasn’t finished yet pal….

Any update on when the slump is likely to end?

 

[Dman]

3 minutes ago, trousers said:

Any update on when the slump is likely to end?

 

When the manager learns from mistakes and changes his style 😉

[TWar]

On 14/04/2022 at 13:50, Nemi said:

We didn’t even really get sussed out tbh, he changed it himself when we were on a high, taking out Perraud, for no apparent reason.

Perraud played in the losses to Villa and Watford so I don't think it's that simple.

[trousers]

25 minutes ago, Dman said:

When the manager learns from mistakes and changes his style 😉

Ah, gotcha. So, what you meant to say 6 days ago was: "If the manager doesn't learn from mistakes and changes his style then the slump hasn't finished yet pal"...?

[Sarisbury Saint]

33 minutes ago, trousers said:

Any update on when the slump is likely to end?

 

When he realises like today that 4222 isn’t always the way.

Look so more solid when we ditch that formation.

 

 

[Østerrike]

Ralph Hasenhüttl maybe?

[John Boy Saint]

Oops wrong thread 🥴

Edited 16 April, 2022 by John Boy Saint
I’m a plank!

[Nemi]

3 hours ago, TWar said:

Perraud played in the losses to Villa and Watford so I don't think it's that simple.

Because Southampton even with there strongest team will lose quite a few games over a season so not really sure that proves anything

Edited 16 April, 2022 by Nemi

[TWar]

29 minutes ago, Nemi said:

Because Southampton even with there strongest team will lose quite a few games over a season so not really sure that proves anything

It's hard to draw conclusions, I think they both have their strengths. I think we have better ball progression with Tino and he is a better presser but Perrauds overlapping runs and crossing is really dangerous. I think our best option is to play them situationally based on opposition.

[tajjuk]

Pep, Klopp, Conte, Tuchel are the only clear cut ones.  They are proven world class managers. 

Potter is by far the most over rated manager in the league IMO, Brighton spend more than we do, arguably have recruited better than us in recent years and sit in the exact same position basically. 

Rodgers is having a horrible season with a much better squad than we have.  They have also twice faded away from promising positions to lose out on champs league squads and he has made some odd signings, like Bertrand and Vestergaard as examples. 

Moyes is doing great with West Ham, but does that erase his previous poor performances? I don't believe so and again much more spend and resources than we have. 

Not sure how you can speak about the likes of Veira, Marsch, Lange etc. when none of them have completed a full season, loads of managers have had good one season but then been bang average or even bad, for example Pardew had a great season with Newcastle but was generally rubbish. We'll see in 2-3 years whether they are good managers or not. 

I mean really a good manager makes a team over perform above its resources, IMO Ralph generally has done that, we have been financially crippled for years by poor signings on high wages and poor contract renewals that have hamstrung us in the transfer market. 

Could some of those managers done better with our squad? Maybe, but its a big maybe, most of those people started with better squads and got more to spend, so just as likely could have done a lot worse. 

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

Pep, Klopp, Conte, Tuchel are the only clear cut ones.  They are proven world class managers. 

Potter is by far the most over rated manager in the league IMO, Brighton spend more than we do, arguably have recruited better than us in recent years and sit in the exact same position basically. 

Rodgers is having a horrible season with a much better squad than we have.  They have also twice faded away from promising positions to lose out on champs league squads and he has made some odd signings, like Bertrand and Vestergaard as examples. 

Moyes is doing great with West Ham, but does that erase his previous poor performances? I don't believe so and again much more spend and resources than we have. 

Not sure how you can speak about the likes of Veira, Marsch, Lange etc. when none of them have completed a full season, loads of managers have had good one season but then been bang average or even bad, for example Pardew had a great season with Newcastle but was generally rubbish. We'll see in 2-3 years whether they are good managers or not. 

I mean really a good manager makes a team over perform above its resources, IMO Ralph generally has done that, we have been financially crippled for years by poor signings on high wages and poor contract renewals that have hamstrung us in the transfer market. 

Could some of those managers done better with our squad? Maybe, but its a big maybe, most of those people started with better squads and got more to spend, so just as likely could have done a lot worse. 

So aside from the top managers everyone else apart from Ralph is shit, overrated or unproven, right. 

[Nemi]

On 16/04/2022 at 21:34, TWar said:

It's hard to draw conclusions, I think they both have their strengths. I think we have better ball progression with Tino and he is a better presser but Perrauds overlapping runs and crossing is really dangerous. I think our best option is to play them situationally based on opposition.

In my eyes though the winning formula isn’t about Tino v Perraud, it’s about the balance of the whole team. And not having a natural left-footer at LB ruins our balance, especially as we often rely on them for our width. (As admirable as KWP’s efforts are in that position, without much support out there for him, it’s just too easy for defenders to shepherd him down the line onto his weak foot).

It’s same way that S Armstrong probably isn’t our best player but he’s definitely one of our most important given the balance he provides to the team. 
 

On paper, I’d happily give all three of the fullbacks a go in the team with Tino or KWP a bit more advanced but, again, how that would actually affect our balance out in the pitch, I’m really not sure.

[Dman]

On 16/04/2022 at 17:11, trousers said:

Any update on when the slump is likely to end?

 

Slump is Still going strong mate 😉

[Dman]

Current premier league better than Ralph… 

Add The Burnley Assistant and CB to the list. 

[Toussaint]

On 16/04/2022 at 18:32, Østerrike said:

Ralph Hasenhüttl maybe?

Ralph is better than Ralph? Makes sense as there is there seem to be two polar opposite Ralph's at saints, a quite good one and a very bad one, how do we get to stipulate it's only the good one we get?

[Holmes_and_Watson]

On 22/04/2022 at 10:06, Toussaint said:

...how do we get to stipulate it's only the good one we get?

We get a director of football who knows him. There's one at Man Utd. Just ask for... Ralph. 🙂

Edited 1 May, 2022 by Holmes_and_Watson
autocarrot correction

[Miltonaggro]

20 hours ago, Dman said:

Current premier league better than Ralph… 

Add The Burnley Assistant and CB to the list. 

Spot on! Their current win ratio is world class.

[Dman]

On 16/04/2022 at 17:11, trousers said:

Any update on when the slump is likely to end?

 

 

[Far que]

id say most of them....Raph out

[Shropshire Saint]

When Forest get promotion next week add Steve Cooper to the list.

[Dell McDellFace]

I like Ralph and he has definitely imposed his way on the club at all levels. I think the problems that have made it such a rollercoaster journey are that other teams have worked out how to play against his method and he is quite stubborn in sticking with his style and with certain players who seem to be underperforming.

There have been a few occasions this season where we have dominated the first half, only to be overrun in the second and Ralph waits until the 70th minute to make the changes that we are all screaming out for. I wonder about the impacts of 5 subs next season. I can imagine opposition teams making 3 changes at half time and setting out a totally different game plan. If Ralph is too belligerent to respond to that, then we will be easy picking - at least for the better teams.

 

[Bad Wolf]

List of current Premier League managers that I would NOT want should Ralph leave:

Arteta

Lampard

Marcsh

Rangdnick

Howe

Smith

Hodgson

The others are probably better than Ralph.