Nathan Jones

[S-Clarke]

5 minutes ago, saintant said:

Maybe time to remove those red and white tinted specs and accept we were battered for most of the game. 3-1 flattered us if we're being honest.

I wouldn't say battered, but they controlled the game and kept us at arms length for most of it.

Sad to say but Brighton were in a different league in respect of how the passed and moved the ball, which allowed them to control the game. We couldn't get near them. It was only Brighton but they made it look like PL against Lower League at times - not through 'battering us' but through the sheer control they had over the ball.

As soon as we got the ball we panicked, didn't know what to do, launched it long and that was that. On the few occasions we were able to get the ball to one of our players (i.e Moussa) their touch was so horrific that it went out for a throw. We really do have an incredibly limited team.

Edited 28 December, 2022 by S-Clarke

[stknowle]

3 minutes ago, saintant said:

Clearly didn't learn very much then.

Well, at least he learned that " Moussa and Diallo are aggressive players who play on the front foot"  😐

[saintant]

1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

I wouldn't say battered, but they controlled the game and kept us at arms length for most of it.

Sad to say but Brighton were in a different league in respect of how the passed and moved the ball, which allowed them to control the game. We couldn't get near them. It was only Brighton but they made it look like PL against Lower League at times - not through 'battering us' but through the sheer control they had over the ball.

As soon as we got the ball we panicng itked, didn't know what to do, launched it long and that was that. On the few occasions we were able to get the ball to one of our players (i.e Moussa) their touch was so horrific that it went out for a throw. We really do have an incredibly limited team.

Well, watching the game it felt to me like we were getting battered. The only thing missing was more goals.

[S-Clarke]

Just now, stknowle said:

Well, at least he learned that " Moussa and Diallo are aggressive players who play on the front foot"  😐

The only guarantee you have with both of those guys is that they will spend a good % of the game on the floor after falling over or being outmuscled. 

I have no idea why we gave Moussa a new deal based on a few performances at LB, which isn't even his position. Those sort of decisions make me question the sanity of the people in control.

[saintant]

1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

The only guarantee you have with both of those guys is that they will spend a good % of the game on the floor after falling over or being outmuscled. 

I have no idea why we gave Moussa a new deal based on a few performances at LB, which isn't even his position. Those sort of decisions make me question the sanity of the people in control.

Same people thought Walcott was worth 70k per week. Madness for a club on a limited budget.

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, saintant said:

Same people thought Walcott was worth 70k per week. Madness for a club on a limited budget.

It can't have been a footballing move, that's the only sense I can make of the Theo move. I think we brought him in with the hope he'd help us attract good young players/help mentor them and such. 

We might as well have just brought in a cheerleader to give them massages after every game.

[Bad Wolf]

20 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Let me know when one of those lawyers is prepared to argue that supporters of a Premier League football team have some kind of contractual obligation to the current manager of the first team.

They don't but when he signed a contract, I'm 99.9999% sure he'll be entitled to a payout for an early termination so yes, we would owe him that.

[Mr X]

23 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

They can't blame us that's for sure. Most fans saw it coming from the first mention of his name.

One stat we can trust, bottom of the league at Christmas = nigh on certain relegation

Agreed by the people that let it happen I meant the other board members who stood by and did nothing and let themselves be steam rollered into appointing Jones by ankerson and semmens and not the fans 

[AlexLaw76]

I see Norwich have not bought into the Dean Smith Project and stuck with their man after relegation.....

[CB Fry]

23 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

They don't but when he signed a contract, I'm 99.9999% sure he'll be entitled to a payout for an early termination so yes, we would owe him that.

The fanbase ("we") don't owe him that though. Which was the point I was making before you started waving your cock about you knowing some lawyers. 

[Bad Wolf]

15 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

The fanbase ("we") don't owe him that though. Which was the point I was making before you started waving your cock about you knowing some lawyers. 

You've never used the word "we" or "us" to describe the club?

[Bad Wolf]

19 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

The fanbase ("we") don't owe him that though. Which was the point I was making before you started waving your cock about you knowing some lawyers. 

You're right about us owing him nothing in that respect however that works both ways. I hope you wern't one of those whinging about Koeman or Poch showing "No loyalty" then.

[Roo1976]

42 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Agreed by the people that let it happen I meant the other board members who stood by and did nothing and let themselves be steam rollered into appointing Jones by ankerson and semmens and not the fans 

and who would the fans have chosen?

[Wade Garrett]

59 minutes ago, stknowle said:

Well, at least he learned that " Moussa and Diallo are aggressive players who play on the front foot"  😐

Did he say that?

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, Charlie Wayman said:

 

One stat we can trust, bottom of the league at Christmas = nigh on certain relegation

That’s Wolves down then, they were bottom at Xmas. 

[Pamplemousse]

52 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I see Norwich have not bought into the Dean Smith Project and stuck with their man after relegation.....

Fans forced him out. Atmosphere apparently got quite toxic.

[Lord Duckhunter]

51 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I see Norwich have not bought into the Dean Smith Project and stuck with their man after relegation.....

I’d say keeping him till the end of Dec is sticking with a relegated manager. 

[CB Fry]

30 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

You're right about us owing him nothing in that respect however that works both ways. I hope you wern't one of those whinging about Koeman or Poch showing "No loyalty" then.

You've been on this forum long enough to know the answer to that.

[CB Fry]

37 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

You've never used the word "we" or "us" to describe the club?

Probably, yeah. But if you read the post you originally replied to piping up about lawyers it is pretty obvious the "we" is the fanbase.

I use the phrase "no one wanted him" which can't possibly mean the club, what with them like giving him the job and everything.

 

Edited 28 December, 2022 by CB Fry

[stknowle]

39 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Did he say that?

According to a post further up the thread, yes. 

[Baird of the land]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

The only guarantee you have with both of those guys is that they will spend a good % of the game on the floor after falling over or being outmuscled. 

I have no idea why we gave Moussa a new deal based on a few performances at LB, which isn't even his position. Those sort of decisions make me question the sanity of the people in control.

Thought he showed much more promise at full back than as a winger.

Yeah so giving him a new contract early based on that, spending money on a Tiny kid of a left back and returning him to being an ineffective winger was all rather a mess imo

[Chez]

2 hours ago, stknowle said:

Well, at least he learned that " Moussa and Diallo are aggressive players who play on the front foot"  😐

One of the worst player assessments I think I have ever seen. How on earth did NJ come to that conclusion? If you are describing Diallo, then word you are looking for is `passive' or `lost'

[Chez]

45 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

Thought he showed much more promise at full back than as a winger.

Yeah so giving him a new contract early based on that, spending money on a Tiny kid of a left back and returning him to being an ineffective winger was all rather a mess imo

Shambles.

He did pretty well at left back. Filled in nicely when we were desperate, but not sure over a longer period it would have worked out. Giving him a new deal based on those three or four games seemed madness to me, and to then just consider him a winger thereafter makes no sense to me. 

[SaintJackoInHurworth]

Unlike far too many people on here I am not about to slit my wrists just yet!

That's not to say I don't have concerns - of course I do! I am concerned at our lack of striker, at the failure of the squad to adapt their playing style to a way that will deliver a win or at least a draw against what is at best a slightly above average Brighton team, at the failure to replace Romeu so that we have adequate cover for Romeu; I am concerned at the training video which showed a manager with no rapport with his team.

Yes, I am concerned, but things can and may turn around:

• Jones may yet build a good rapport with the squad and understand which players are good and which are inadequate; he may also get to grips with suitable tactics which will work with this squad and deliver the results and performances that we all wish for.
• Sports Republic may be successful in buying a decent striker and defensive midfield cover - maybe a decent, experienced defensive leader too.
• Some of our younger players may make the transition to the first team and deliver something new and exciting.
• Our current run of fixtures may allow us to get some decent results, which may allow us to build some confidence.

Of course, there is no guarantee that any of these things will happen, but having seen what a disaster it seems to have been to sack Hasenhuttl, I don't think we need to rush into that course of action again in a hurry. Instead, let's get behind the team and manager and hope that things will improve. If they don't and we find that we are again in the same sort of situation we had with Pellegrino then obviously the board will have to act - but now is not the time to do that.

One thing I would also say, though, is that we as supporters can be prone to believing every rumour and every comment about the worst things happening in the club. The fact is that for the most part we haven't a clue what is going on and actually things may be more positive than we fear. I, for one, hope this is the case.

COYS

[saintant]

6 minutes ago, SaintJackoInHurworth said:

Unlike far too many people on here I am not about to slit my wrists just yet!

That's not to say I don't have concerns - of course I do! I am concerned at our lack of striker, at the failure of the squad to adapt their playing style to a way that will deliver a win or at least a draw against what is at best a slightly above average Brighton team, at the failure to replace Romeu so that we have adequate cover for Romeu; I am concerned at the training video which showed a manager with no rapport with his team.

Yes, I am concerned, but things can and may turn around:

• Jones may yet build a good rapport with the squad and understand which players are good and which are inadequate; he may also get to grips with suitable tactics which will work with this squad and deliver the results and performances that we all wish for.
• Sports Republic may be successful in buying a decent striker and defensive midfield cover - maybe a decent, experienced defensive leader too.
• Some of our younger players may make the transition to the first team and deliver something new and exciting.
• Our current run of fixtures may allow us to get some decent results, which may allow us to build some confidence.

Of course, there is no guarantee that any of these things will happen, but having seen what a disaster it seems to have been to sack Hasenhuttl, I don't think we need to rush into that course of action again in a hurry. Instead, let's get behind the team and manager and hope that things will improve. If they don't and we find that we are again in the same sort of situation we had with Pellegrino then obviously the board will have to act - but now is not the time to do that.

One thing I would also say, though, is that we as supporters can be prone to believing every rumour and every comment about the worst things happening in the club. The fact is that for the most part we haven't a clue what is going on and actually things may be more positive than we fear. I, for one, hope this is the case.

COYS

I admire your optimism even though I suspect it is misplaced.

[Pilchards]

3 hours ago, Mr X said:

Agreed by the people that let it happen I meant the other board members who stood by and did nothing and let themselves be steam rollered into appointing Jones by ankerson and semmens and not the fans 

100% chosen by Ankerson.

This is on his head only, If it fails miserably then he should resign immediately or step down from making further decisions.

What I don’t get is how Jones has stepped in and changed NOTHING. He looked to do different things on the training ground but against Brighton it was the same shit Ralph gave us.

[Mr X]

2 hours ago, Roo1976 said:

and who would the fans have chosen?

Well there was a lot of fan short lists on here and none of them contained Nathan Jones that's for sure and there was a lot of suggestions by the media too and none of those had Nathan Jones on their list either till the rumour that he was coming turned out to be true.  So yeah the club kept that one quiet on purpose, probably for the exact fan reaction reasons as shown on here.  

[Mr X]

2 minutes ago, Pilchards said:

100% chosen by Ankerson.

This is on his head only, If it fails miserably then he should resign immediately or step down from making further decisions.

What I don’t get is how Jones has stepped in and changed NOTHING. He looked to do different things on the training ground but against Brighton it was the same shit Ralph gave us.

The man is totally out of his depth like Ralph was in the last year of his tenure and it's totally not his fault he's here as any championship manager would jump at the chance for a stab at the premier league however brief it may be! The facts don't lie the club that's bottom at Xmas gets relegated 99% of the time. That said it's very tight at the bottom of the table this year and with the world cup break taken into account we have a chance but our form needs to suddenly change and I just can't see that at the moment 

[gallaghert366@yahoo.com]

2 hours ago, Pamplemousse said:

Fans forced him out. Atmosphere apparently got quite toxic.

He was whining to the local press (The EDP) before Christmas that the fans didn't like him!

[egg]

[Smirking_Saint]

7 hours ago, SotonianWill said:

He said in his Lincoln press conference he was almost finished watching and analysing every saints game from this season. 

Yet he proceeded to play Lyanco at CB, Ely at CAM, Diallo at DM and Djenepo at RW…

Edited 28 December, 2022 by Smirking_Saint

[Smirking_Saint]

6 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

The only guarantee you have with both of those guys is that they will spend a good % of the game on the floor after falling over or being outmuscled. 

I have no idea why we gave Moussa a new deal based on a few performances at LB, which isn't even his position. Those sort of decisions make me question the sanity of the people in control.

Do you remember the press waffle when Semmens stuck the boot into Les (not defending Les) about being hamstrung due to long contracts to players that didn’t deserve it ?

And then proceeded to sign Djenepo, McCarthy and Walcott onto long unwanted contracts

[Smirking_Saint]

3 hours ago, Pilchards said:

100% chosen by Ankerson.

This is on his head only, If it fails miserably then he should resign immediately or step down from making further decisions.

What I don’t get is how Jones has stepped in and changed NOTHING. He looked to do different things on the training ground but against Brighton it was the same shit Ralph gave us.

Rasmus has made all of the major footballing decisions (overall) since the summer however was in favour of sacking Ralph sooner but was convinced not to

[egg]

8 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Yet he proceeded to play Lyanco at CB, Ely at CAM, Diallo at DM and Djenepo at RW…

Round pegs in round holes though.

Shit pegs admittedly. 

[Smirking_Saint]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

Round pegs in round holes though.

Shit pegs admittedly. 

Diallo is sort of one of them.. its unfortunately him or AMN unless we go 3 in the middle (we stand a chance then)

Djenepo is just not able wide, we have other options (Aribo, Edozue, Armstrong x 2)

Lyanco is odd with DCC and ABK on the bench

Also as Ive said before, Ely works hard and is ok as a wide man that can defend but as a No.10 ? Absolutely ineffective in a creative position Im afraid

[verlaine1979]

7 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I wouldn't say battered, but they controlled the game and kept us at arms length for most of it.

Sad to say but Brighton were in a different league in respect of how the passed and moved the ball, which allowed them to control the game. We couldn't get near them. It was only Brighton but they made it look like PL against Lower League at times - not through 'battering us' but through the sheer control they had over the ball.

As soon as we got the ball we panicked, didn't know what to do, launched it long and that was that. On the few occasions we were able to get the ball to one of our players (i.e Moussa) their touch was so horrific that it went out for a throw. We really do have an incredibly limited team.

For several seasons now I've had the feeling when we try to pass and move that we're playing at the very limits of our capabilities. I can't remember the last time I saw us move the ball with the simple fluidity that Brighton were able to summon against us - maybe that Newcastle win immediately after the pandemic restart?

Everything is so frantic with us. But maybe it's just the case that our limitations are well known. Clubs understand that we have no capacity to move the ball through the middle, so we'll always look to the fullbacks on the touchline as soon as we can, where there is much less space and less margin for error.

[The Cat]

3 hours ago, Mr X said:

The facts don't lie the club that's bottom at Xmas gets relegated 99% of the time.

Luckily for us Wolves were bottom at Xmas, so that's them gone then.

What's the percentage for the team second from bottom?

[egg]

3 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Diallo is sort of one of them.. its unfortunately him or AMN unless we go 3 in the middle (we stand a chance then)

Djenepo is just not able wide, we have other options (Aribo, Edozue, Armstrong x 2)

Lyanco is odd with DCC and ABK on the bench

Also as Ive said before, Ely works hard and is ok as a wide man that can defend but as a No.10 ? Absolutely ineffective in a creative position Im afraid

Ely...who would you rather a decent ish chance fell to, him Djenepo, Edozie or Aribo? Ely for me...less wasteful of those 4 too.  He's average, but he can play and works hard. I can see why he's played ahead of others. 

[Crab Lungs]

20 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Do you remember the press waffle when Semmens stuck the boot into Les (not defending Les) about being hamstrung due to long contracts to players that didn’t deserve it ?

And then proceeded to sign Djenepo, McCarthy and Walcott onto long unwanted contracts

He’s such a melt, it’s surprising it took us being bottom for many to realise. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

53 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Rasmus has made all of the major footballing decisions (overall) since the summer however was in favour of sacking Ralph sooner but was convinced not to

Convinced by Semmens?

[USaint]

https://www.football365.com/news/opinion-southampton-nathan-jones-home-debut

[Stokieinpeace]

Having endured Mad Nathan at Stoke for 34 games was really surprised that he got the Head Coach job at your great club. All I can say is that he was way out of his depth, lost the dressing-room early on in his tenure and signed a bunch of players in the only window he had that, quite frankly, were mostly league 1 standard at best. Nick Powell being the only exception. His diamond formation was lost on most fans and his insistence on continuing with it would have relegated us to league 1 had he not been sacked. 34 games, 5 wins was relegation form for sure. Hope he turns it round for you but can’t see it even this early.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Why should we listen to Stoke fans. They’re not exactly experts when it comes to managerial decisions 

 

They eventually pulled clear and finished in 13th place but some supporters had lost faith with the direct style of play and lack of goals, which were a common thread during the club's time in the Premier League under Pulis.

Coates was aware that there was an "anti-Pulis element" from the moment that he brought the Welshman back to the club in 2006, but he refused to be swayed by fan opinion and his faith was rewarded.

Stoke won promotion by finishing second in the Championship in 2008 and went on to retain their Premier League status in five successive seasons, finishing no lower than 14th. They also reached the FA Cup final in 2011, losing 1-0 to Manchester City, which secured a place in the Europa League, where they progressed to the knockout stage.

Matthew Etherington, the Stoke winger, said: "I think the manager did a great job at the club. I know the fans were grumbling and saying they wanted a change and it looks like they have been granted their wish. I also think people have to be careful what they wish for.

 

 

Edited 28 December, 2022 by Lord Duckhunter

[AlexLaw76]

Very true that fans are not always the best judge.

Afterall, so many on here dismissed Howe (routinely).......look at him now

[The Cat]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Very true that fans are not always the best judge.

Afterall, so many on here dismissed Howe (routinely).......look at him now

Must be at least 45 minutes since you posted something about Eddie Howe. I was getting close to starting a welfare check.

[CB Fry]

9 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Why should we listen to Stoke fans. They’re not exactly experts when it comes to managerial decisions 

 

They eventually pulled clear and finished in 13th place but some supporters had lost faith with the direct style of play and lack of goals, which were a common thread during the club's time in the Premier League under Pulis.

Coates was aware that there was an "anti-Pulis element" from the moment that he brought the Welshman back to the club in 2006, but he refused to be swayed by fan opinion and his faith was rewarded.

Stoke won promotion by finishing second in the Championship in 2008 and went on to retain their Premier League status in five successive seasons, finishing no lower than 14th. They also reached the FA Cup final in 2011, losing 1-0 to Manchester City, which secured a place in the Europa League, where they progressed to the knockout stage.

Matthew Etherington, the Stoke winger, said: "I think the manager did a great job at the club. I know the fans were grumbling and saying they wanted a change and it looks like they have been granted their wish. I also think people have to be careful what they wish for.

 

 

Hughes took over from Pulis and they finished 9th three seasons in a row, higher than Pulis ever finished with anyone.

[Smirking_Saint]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Ely...who would you rather a decent ish chance fell to, him Djenepo, Edozie or Aribo? Ely for me...less wasteful of those 4 too.  He's average, but he can play and works hard. I can see why he's played ahead of others. 

Personally I think Aribo is, of the three, more creative, better on the ball and more composed infront of goal but doesn’t work hard enough which, I agree, isn’t something you can say about Ely.. the lad puts a shift in

[Smirking_Saint]

50 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Convinced by Semmens?

I believe so yeah… and part of me understands it.. Ralph is a good manager but we didn’t get the striker he needed AND things eventually fell apart for him, im not sure it was mutually exclusive

Unfortunately we’re being told NJ needs time.. and we don’t have it, certainly Ive not seen any impact from his coaching over the last 6-8 weeks and arguably if we needed to give a new manager time the it needed to happen sooner

[Stokieinpeace]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Why should we listen to Stoke fans. They’re not exactly experts when it comes to managerial decisions 

 

They eventually pulled clear and finished in 13th place but some supporters had lost faith with the direct style of play and lack of goals, which were a common thread during the club's time in the Premier League under Pulis.

Coates was aware that there was an "anti-Pulis element" from the moment that he brought the Welshman back to the club in 2006, but he refused to be swayed by fan opinion and his faith was rewarded.

Stoke won promotion by finishing second in the Championship in 2008 and went on to retain their Premier League status in five successive seasons, finishing no lower than 14th. They also reached the FA Cup final in 2011, losing 1-0 to Manchester City, which secured a place in the Europa League, where they progressed to the knockout stage.

Matthew Etherington, the Stoke winger, said: "I think the manager did a great job at the club. I know the fans were grumbling and saying they wanted a change and it looks like they have been granted their wish. I also think people have to be careful what they wish for.

With due respect you don’t have to listen to Stoke fans, the failure of his tenure are plain to see & it’s not the fans who make the managerial decisions ….that’s the club management’s job but the fans have to endure those decisions when they quickly show that they are not up to the job as it was with Mad Nathan. Stoke fans, as with most PL clubs, were not content with finishing in the top half and wanted the club to push on and strive higher. Unfortunately, unless you are the mighty and righteous top six, this rarely happens (Blackburn & Leicester being the exceptions). We had stability under Pulis but fans wanted him out because his hoof ball style wasn't progress. We were eventually relegated not helped by some poor and expensive signings by Hughes .

I wish you luck in avoiding relegation, but doubt Jones will help you achieve this. 

 

 

Edited 28 December, 2022 by Stokieinpeace

[IanCransonsKnees]

I've never felt moved to sign up for another club's forum before but reading this thread has inspired me to.

He's as awful as you think, but reading your posts on your current predicament it seems very similar to our relegation season.

This thread is worth a glance to get an insight into what we thought of him. 

https://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/302240/nathan-jones-view

I cottoned on early doors that he was out of his depth when he gave our players 2 weeks off over an international break just after he'd joined us.  The excuse being he'd needed to take stock of the players. At that point we were safe and he literally wrote the season off in the press and gave the players the opportunity to just down tools. At that point I was done with him and he should have been written off at the end of that season. Our board aren't renowned for being decisive or having any form of plan though.

I've suffered some dross in my time following us but Nathan Jones is the only manager who has come close to me chucking my season ticket in, and I suffered every match home & away under Chris Kamara!

 

 

 

Edited 28 December, 2022 by IanCransonsKnees
Spelling