Will Still

[Farmer Saint]

The issue with moving to 4 at the back, and it's also what happened with Martin, is our centre backs are too shit to play 4 at the back.

[bpsaint]

Called last nights result in the build up thread, not that I'm happy about it - it was just so obvious as soon as someone put pressure on us away from home we'd struggle. It's all teams have to do, watch how we set out our stall and then make the changes to counter it and its game over.

I had no faith in the manager appointment to start with, it just absolutely stunk of a typical SR appointment, trying to be clever and unearth a gem, when really it needed someone like the guy Forest have just appointed.

That being said, what's the point of making a change, its utterly embarrassing the number of managers we go through, the problem is higher up the chain, SR and their team of laptop wankers signing players that had good stats in their respective leagues and just assuming they're transferable skills. That bloke that worked for Barclays bank for example, what a complete shambles. Clear the fucking lot out and get a proper scouting network like clubs used to do.

It's not an exaggeration to say we're in a relegation battle, forget any dreams of promotion. We've fluked a win against Wrexham, and beaten bottom of the league Sheff Utd. That's it. We can't score against bang average mid table sides at home, and are getting beaten at mid table sides away. We can't defend,have lost our "main" striker until at least January to injury, and our marquee signing up top is proving to be one of the worst ever CF's to pull on a Saints top.

We are in serious trouble guys.

Edited Wednesday at 07:19 by bpsaint

[Football Special]

10 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

Called last nights result in the build up thread, not that I'm happy about it - it was just so obvious as soon as someone put pressure on us away from home we'd struggle. It's all teams have to do, watch how we set out our stall and then make the changes to counter it and its game over.

I had no faith in the manager appointment to start with, it just absolutely stunk of a typical SR appointment, trying to be clever and unearth a gem, when really it needed someone like the guy Forest have just appointed.

That being said, what's the point of making a change, its utterly embarrassing the number of managers we go through, the problem is higher up the chain, SR and their team of laptop wankers signing players that had good stats in their respective leagues and just assuming they're transferable skills. That bloke that worked for Barclays bank for example, what a complete shambles. Clear the fucking lot out and get a proper scouting network like clubs used to do.

It's not an exaggeration to say we're in a relegation battle, forget any dreams of promotion. We've fluked a win against Wrexham, and beaten bottom of the league Sheff Utd. That's it. We can't score against bang average mid table sides at home, and are getting beaten at mid table sides away. We can't defend,have lost our "main" striker until at least January to injury, and our marquee signing up top is proving to be one of the worst ever CF's to pull on a Saints top.

We are in serious trouble guys.

Good post, sums up my thoughts entirely. 

[Mr X]

We need someone in now with the experience to stop the rot and make us hard to beat! We aren't going to be instantly winning games but we need someone in who has the experience to stop us making basic basic defensive errors

Edited Wednesday at 08:02 by Mr X

[Saint_clark]

3 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Is this where you excitedly tell us it is getting better and hotter?

If I compare yesterday's performance (ignoring the result) to earlier in the season there is massive improvement, yes. I'm willing to give him longer term to fix the issues remaining as he is improving us. Earlier in the season we could barely string passes together to get the ball forward. The forwards, Armstrong in particular, were completely isolated because they were making the wrong kind of movements but they were heavily involved yesterday. 

[CheshireSaint]

12 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

We are all basically saying that we really have 2 choices:

 

1) accept that Still was a terrible appointment and change the manager.

2) accept that the player recruitment was terrible and keep the manager on, hoping things improve. 
 

And this is why Still was such a bad appointment for me, and why I was desperate for someone with more experience. 
We needed a strong, experienced manager so we could say “for sure it’s the players, we have to stick with him and back the manager for now”. 

Instead we are up shit creek without a paddle.  He has nothing on his CV to suggest he can fix this. 

For me, the problem isn't whether it's the Manager or the recruitment / board. It is both. We can't do much about recruitment at present. We can do something about the Manager. I was really optimistic about his appointment at first, with it being controversial and left field. Worth a chance I thought. Now, reality hits. He doesn't know what to do. He is thinking he needs a solid foundation and he is withdrawing behind what he thinks is a defensive wall, literally. 3 CB's is acceptable when required. Away at a team riding high say, at least for the first half perhaps. Playing 3 CB's from the start against.....everyone, home or away is weakness personified.

Last night, by half time, we had lost the initiative completely. There was no point sending the same team out and expecting them to wrestle it back without anything changing. That's stupid. He then went on to not only put on the worst player we have, but sacrificed a midfielder whilst still maintaining 3 CB's. That isn't naivety or lack of experience, that's stupidity and ineptitude.

It matters little, how many centre halves we have when they are running back to their own goal and the opposition is swarming forward, waiting to pick out a run into the channels. That swarm needs to be stopped at source. You do that by having a competitive midfield. With numbers in midfield, that's where you play the ball around, probing for an opportunity. You don't play it around the back where it is unlikely you will find a killer pass and the jeopardy is increased if a wayward pass occurs, as it did.

It's set up completely wrong and Still is a complete fookwit for doing so. Repeatedly. Away from home we need to pack the midfield to keep it tight. Not the defence.

In other news, there was a move and cross that summed Downs up last night. A cross come in and Downs was in his usual position of between centre halves, hiding. Instead of looking to get in front of the centre half to meet the ball, he was happy staying between the two where he could slightly jump, for effect, knowing he was never going to get the ball. He has no wish to contest anything, as proven by his lack of touches. I have said it before and i'll say it again, Get Azaz up front.

Still needs to go. We have an abundance of offensive talent, apart from the absolute point of the diamond. Get that sorted (January) and play with a freedom that line up deserves and we should dominate. Certainly against very mediocre Swansea and Bristol City. One point return against them, it's inexcusable and as such, certainly justification for a change already.

[Sunglasses Ron]

1 hour ago, bpsaint said:

Called last nights result in the build up thread, not that I'm happy about it - it was just so obvious as soon as someone put pressure on us away from home we'd struggle. It's all teams have to do, watch how we set out our stall and then make the changes to counter it and its game over.

I had no faith in the manager appointment to start with, it just absolutely stunk of a typical SR appointment, trying to be clever and unearth a gem, when really it needed someone like the guy Forest have just appointed.

That being said, what's the point of making a change, its utterly embarrassing the number of managers we go through, the problem is higher up the chain, SR and their team of laptop wankers signing players that had good stats in their respective leagues and just assuming they're transferable skills. That bloke that worked for Barclays bank for example, what a complete shambles. Clear the fucking lot out and get a proper scouting network like clubs used to do.

It's not an exaggeration to say we're in a relegation battle, forget any dreams of promotion. We've fluked a win against Wrexham, and beaten bottom of the league Sheff Utd. That's it. We can't score against bang average mid table sides at home, and are getting beaten at mid table sides away. We can't defend,have lost our "main" striker until at least January to injury, and our marquee signing up top is proving to be one of the worst ever CF's to pull on a Saints top.

We are in serious trouble guys.

Add in the ridiculous decision to 'award' Jack Stephens with a 3-year contract (how's that working out?) and you have the calamitous situation that we now find ourselves in.  I personally think we will eventually reach the heights of mid-table obscurity, but only because we'll cope with the strain of mid-season injuries / suspensions better than others (who don't have the luxury of being able to bring the likes of Damion Downs off the bench).

These really are gloomy times for this club.

Edited Wednesday at 08:40 by Sunglasses Ron

[CheshireSaint]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

The issue with moving to 4 at the back, and it's also what happened with Martin, is our centre backs are too shit to play 4 at the back.

Unless we play 4 at the back, with an emphasis on not fooking about and get the ball to the teeth players in midfield and up front. Having 5 at the back just gives them an appearance of more security, and options of playing it across the back. Urgency is something we continue to lack. Allowing defences to settle and play on their terms, in their comfort zones. We will never be up and at 'em with 5 at the back.  

[Roo1976]

12 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

If I compare yesterday's performance (ignoring the result) to earlier in the season there is massive improvement, yes. I'm willing to give him longer term to fix the issues remaining as he is improving us. Earlier in the season we could barely string passes together to get the ball forward. The forwards, Armstrong in particular, were completely isolated because they were making the wrong kind of movements but they were heavily involved yesterday. 

I like your thought process but, someone something somewhere,somethings not right. Once the players cross that line onto the pitch,all the coaching team and manager can hope for is the team to carry out the training process that's been worked on . Brighton and Bournemouth for instance,they seem to have very good personnel in place in order to keep generating good scouted players that don't seem to disrupt the teams cohesiveness,and you know what i thought both would struggle this season,also along with Crystal Palace,but there seems to be a different mental approach to these clubs.

I'm sure our academy players are developing well and there's been a shout out for the young lad that's on fire ATM,surely hes abetter fix to see how things might be rather than DD?,our scouting needs to be better,and somehow our players that shone at our rivals clubs ,for what ever reason cant/don't seem to turn into the player we've bought?  How long have  fan-base been seeing that we need abetter keeper and at least a proven not experimental striker? right moan over ......there's still too much to say and it falls on deaf ears at the club,but its a fan frustration thing.

[Saint86]

11 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

What? It’s stacked with talent in basically all departments apart from a couple of average goalkeepers, and how many points have they cost us this season? Zero.

Every season people complain that we sign some quirky, Slovenian U15s, girls, disability inclusivity league player based on football manager stats instead of decent, experienced players for the league we’re in. This year we’ve actually gone out and signed Fellows, Mads and Azaz and brought Charles and Edwards back from loan to complement the bags of Championship experience we already have. On top of that Jander, Jelert and especially Leo have all looked decent like decent signings from abroad.

This squad is superb, it’s just appallingly managed and playing nowhere near its potential.

Absolutely this.

People attacking Spors for the Down signing (and yes, that appears to have been a bad gamble)... but azaz, jellert, Fellows, Scienza, Jander and Quarshie are all very good or good players for this level. Even Mads is a decent acquisition for the cost. Generally speaking, the manager has been extremely well backed.

He spent pre season with a back 4, then bemoaned not having the players to stick to it and went to the back 5, then signed the likes of fellows, scienza, azaz etc... (any squad in the league would bite your hand off for that level of player) and yet he continues to play a back 5 and benches 1-2 of them on a weekly basis - last night playing an unwell Fellows at fucking wing back in a back 5 when we were chasing the game.

He style is inflexible, incapable of breaking teams down, incapable of baiting teams out, and cannot defend. All anyone has to do against us in maintain a disciplined shape, wait for us to tire and make a mistake, and then smash us on the counter - upon which are lackadaisical centre halves are exposed. And Macca may be a good shot stopper, but he's awful at coming off his line, defending vs counter attacks, and/or handling one on one situations - which is invariably what he is being faced with. And god alone knows what he was doing for that rebound last night, looked like a FIFA GK error it was so bad.

I am not defending Martin - but i will say this for his tactics - we would routinely stop or walk the ball around at the back... force the other team to come out, set traps for them etc. Still does not do this. We push all the way up, and then are happy to just pass the ball around the opposition box whilst they set up camp inside it. He has arguably better players than Martin, yet his tactics are less effective. 

Edited Wednesday at 09:01 by Saint86

[DT]

Russell Martin would do MUCH better with this group of players.

As would my gran, and she died a decade ago.

We really need to bite the bullet now - we've already missed two good managers (not that they would come to us) recently. Still is the emperor's new clothes. Total sham.

Wake up!

[malcolm waldron]

2 hours ago, Football Special said:

That one made me laugh , also the many arrogant posts about how poor the championship was so even our players would dominated it. Week in week out we're being shown what a well organised group of hard working players can achieve compared to our bunch of jokers. 

Had an in depth debate on way home last night and conclusion was there probably is little point in sacking Still. Club is such a mess, recruitment is a disaster we spent a fortune and failed to address key areas. No confidence in Spors or any of the key decision makers. Season is a write off. 

Said the same thing last night after the game.  Before it we were wondering which Championship lump would bully us this time - of course the answer was Sinclair Armstrong when he came on.  I remember him from his QPR days back in 23/24 and while his career may have stalled, my god did he give Wood and THB something to worry about for the 2nd half.  And we brought on Damian Downs..... 

[Osvaldorama]

We are second in Opta’s expected points table.

 

I guess the club will look at data like this and assume we are fine, just need to keep going and things will improve. 
 

I think this does work in Still’s favour. For me it points the finger at the recruitment. If we had competent players at both business ends of the pitch, we’d be up there  

 

[Saint NL]

 

Surely Still must be feeling the pressure now. 

[Sunnyside Saint]

Seems we are looking at a succession of managers who have failed to make an effective team from the squad at their disposal. Is it really possible that they've all been duds?

Somehow I don't feel that there's a particular lack of talent with the current crop but perhaps I'm misreading it? I even had a hint of an improvement over the previous few games. Not sure now.

Is it that we're just missing a couple of cogs that could pull it together? The chain is only as strong as the weakest link.

It's demoralising that we have been subjected to this sub-standard "product" for a while now, notwithstanding the achievement of gaining promotion under RM, there were good moments, but for me watching his team was mostly like having teeth pulled.

I had optimism at the start of this season for a new dawn, yet to materialise. I really hope it can be turned around without the need for another upheaval.

[saintstowin]

I refuse to accept we can't play with 2 and not 3 CBs. The games I recall we tried were Portsmouth (crap) and Hull (crapper) and I assume one or two others. However that was a time when we had a less settled defensive set up - and I know it was bad last night too, but....

We can't be so weak in midfield like the 2nd half yesterday, we will lose often. And even though Azaz hasn't been great he's not going to contribute with a few minutes here and there. Same for Fellows. And both are at risk of being forced into positions that don't suit them. Fellows at wing back is wrong and really annoys me now.

I appreciate AA should be in the team which takes up a space on the wing but let's be creative about it.

3 CBs is a comfort blanket and as we saw it also can fail. 

I think Still is lost, or at best at a loss.

[S-Clarke]

16 minutes ago, Sunnyside Saint said:

Seems we are looking at a succession of managers who have failed to make an effective team from the squad at their disposal. Is it really possible that they've all been duds?

Somehow I don't feel that there's a particular lack of talent with the current crop but perhaps I'm misreading it? I even had a hint of an improvement over the previous few games. Not sure now.

Is it that we're just missing a couple of cogs that could pull it together? The chain is only as strong as the weakest link.

It's demoralising that we have been subjected to this sub-standard "product" for a while now, notwithstanding the achievement of gaining promotion under RM, there were good moments, but for me watching his team was mostly like having teeth pulled.

I had optimism at the start of this season for a new dawn, yet to materialise. I really hope it can be turned around without the need for another upheaval.

I think we all had some hope, it was probably the only positive angle we could take. I know that I thought after some an almighty damaging season in the PL that we'd entirely restart and do a root and branch reset. We didn't go far enough and just started repeating the same.

The entire 'fresh start' angle was removed as soon as Jack Stephens was given a new contract, and then we doubled down when we brought in George Long as our GK competition. Those two decisions proved to me that nothing was going to truly change, it set the tone and once again we accepted mediocrity - and when you do that, that's exactly where you end up. Everyone piping up and saying ''Baz is fine for the Champ''  'Stephens is fine for the Champ'' is entirely missing the point.

Someone is making these calls outside of Still/Sporrs etc - and until that element is removed, nothing will change.

Edited Wednesday at 10:33 by S-Clarke

[saintant]

14 minutes ago, Sunnyside Saint said:

Seems we are looking at a succession of managers who have failed to make an effective team from the squad at their disposal. Is it really possible that they've all been duds?

Somehow I don't feel that there's a particular lack of talent with the current crop but perhaps I'm misreading it? I even had a hint of an improvement over the previous few games. Not sure now.

Is it that we're just missing a couple of cogs that could pull it together? The chain is only as strong as the weakest link.

It's demoralising that we have been subjected to this sub-standard "product" for a while now, notwithstanding the achievement of gaining promotion under RM, there were good moments, but for me watching his team was mostly like having teeth pulled.

I had optimism at the start of this season for a new dawn, yet to materialise. I really hope it can be turned around without the need for another upheaval.

What we're missing and continue to fail to address is tall, strong, powerful players who can compete with the physical side of the game. It's no good signing all these ball playing types who are physically weak - there has to be a mixture including some big, aggressive types who can win battles and get around the pitch. Look at Bournemouth, Brentford, Palace - they lose players but always make sure they have enough of the physical athletes to provide a good balance. We'll always struggle until this is addressed. 

[Chez]

3 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

The issue with moving to 4 at the back, and it's also what happened with Martin, is our centre backs are too shit to play 4 at the back.

I agree, especially in the Prem. It also became a necessity to have lots of bodies to fill the space opposing teams would exploit. That was because we didn't provide very good cover in front of the CBs. The full backs didn't help much either, no losing the ball cheaply or a failure to dominate midfield etc...

You'd think think some of those issues would be negated by lessor opposition having gone down, but there seems to be a genuine lack of confidence in the CBs and back four as a whole. Do we have two CBs that combined can do the job? A lack of strength in the air has been an issue for some. Making mistakes with ball at feet an issue for several. Poor positional play and lack of anticipation another thing of concern. Still has chopped and changed/given everyone a go. He has to find the right partnership and run with it. Quarshie's injury may not have helped here of course.

 

[benjii]

3 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

The issue with moving to 4 at the back, and it's also what happened with Martin, is our centre backs are too shit to play 4 at the back.

Are you serious? You think all the other successful teams in the division with a back 4 have materially better centre backs than we do? You're making excuses for poor coaching and organisation.

[benjii]

25 minutes ago, Sunnyside Saint said:

Seems we are looking at a succession of managers who have failed to make an effective team from the squad at their disposal. Is it really possible that they've all been duds?

Yes.

Jones was clearly wrong man, wrong place. Just an awful fit and probably never going to be successful at PL level. Was obvious after 2 matches.

By the time he left we were done and Selles was never going to achieve much. 

Reset with Martin. Certainly wasn't a dud in terms of getting across his ideas and putting a mark on the team. And he got good enough results to get promoted. Clearly, our approach was suicidal in the Premier League, although how unbelievable is it, in hindsight, that our signings to gear us up for that campaign were Ben Brereton Diaz and Cameron Archer and we went into the season with the Macca/Bazz double act? Mental.

Then we had Juric, although again we were as good as down by that point. I don't think he was a good fit and I'm not sure he really wanted the job but I'm sure it was a nice payday.

I don't count temps like Rusk, who was never really the proper manager, just someone to kill time.

So, yes, it's quite possible, in my view.

[Farmer Saint]

13 minutes ago, benjii said:

Are you serious? You think all the other successful teams in the division with a back 4 have materially better centre backs than we do? You're making excuses for poor coaching and organisation.

Oh, the coaching is not good enough either, but the players are shit. We have been blessed with shit CBs for the past 6 or 7 years.

[Chez]

21 minutes ago, saintstowin said:

I refuse to accept we can't play with 2 and not 3 CBs. The games I recall we tried were Portsmouth (crap) and Hull (crapper) and I assume one or two others. However that was a time when we had a less settled defensive set up - and I know it was bad last night too, but....

We can't be so weak in midfield like the 2nd half yesterday, we will lose often. And even though Azaz hasn't been great he's not going to contribute with a few minutes here and there. Same for Fellows. And both are at risk of being forced into positions that don't suit them. Fellows at wing back is wrong and really annoys me now.

I appreciate AA should be in the team which takes up a space on the wing but let's be creative about it.

3 CBs is a comfort blanket and as we saw it also can fail. 

I think Still is lost, or at best at a loss.

I'm with you. All those CBs. There must be a paring that works supported by good fullback play and a tenacious midfield that protects them.

Not sure how we can play both Fellows and Armstrong unless we go 4-4-2. If we do that, how do you fit in Azaz? If we play 4-4-2, who partners Amstrong?

I am not sure how to solve that issue...and nor does Still, hence he's going with one up top (Archer instead of Downs), Armstrong instead of Fellows, and Azaz misses out. 

 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

2 hours ago, CheshireSaint said:

Last night, by half time, we had lost the initiative completely. There was no point sending the same team out and expecting them to wrestle it back without anything changing. That's stupid. He then went on to not only put on the worst player we have, but sacrificed a midfielder whilst still maintaining 3 CB's.

When Still joined, one of his 'selling points' was he adapts to the situation...but he doesn't. Yes, when he's played four at the back from the start, results haven't been good, but he's got to see what the opposition are doing and change accordingly. 

Flynn Downes was one of our best pivotal players last time in the championship. Azaz and Fellows aren't being used as they should. He's got to sacrifice a centre back - and not Wood!

Sheff Utd tried something new in Selles, then realised it wasn't working and brought back someone who knows what they're doing in Wilder and results are already going their way. At this rate, Still won't have long to go.

[benjii]

2 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Oh, the coaching is not good enough either, but the players are shit. We have been blessed with shit CBs for the past 6 or 7 years.

Come off it.

Stephens and THB have been promoted from this league before. 

Wood is experienced and has done alright (yesterday excepted).

Edwards was one of QPR's players of the season.

Quarshie is a bit raw but is a beast.

If we can't make a decent pairing that's on the coaches.

[Willo of Whiteley]

What was actually said at the final whistle? Or was it just booing?

[Farmer Saint]

27 minutes ago, benjii said:

Come off it.

Stephens and THB have been promoted from this league before. 

Wood is experienced and has done alright (yesterday excepted).

Edwards was one of QPR's players of the season.

Quarshie is a bit raw but is a beast.

If we can't make a decent pairing that's on the coaches.

I disagree, but TBF I have been wildly consistent on this back to before Martin joined. Our defensive players, especially our CBs, IMHO, are fucking shit.

Edited Wednesday at 11:27 by Farmer Saint

[bpsaint]

1 hour ago, Saint NL said:

 

Surely Still must be feeling the pressure now. 

You know it’s bad when Brownnose is questioning the manager.

[Saint NL]

4 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

You know it’s bad when Brownnose is questioning the manager.

This one is even worse from Tanwell. They sense something....

 

[trousers]

19 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

You know it’s bad when Brownnose is questioning the manager.

Adam Blackmore will quite often post a fairly scathing post-match tweet but usually  reverts to 'Mr Diplomacy' mode when he subsequently interviews the manager... 

Edited Wednesday at 11:49 by trousers

[lambtiss]

 

Presumably, he's not referring to these statistics.

 

[lambtiss]

4 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

The issue with moving to 4 at the back, and it's also what happened with Martin, is our centre backs are too shit to play 4 at the back.

Rubbish, in my opinion. Our best form in the Championship came when we had 2 centre-backs in a back 4 (Bednarek and THB). In fact, our problems started under RM when he tried to shoehorn Jack into a back 5 in January.

We have 5 CBs at the club, one of whom starred in that long unbeaten run. If we can't get a decent pairing out of them, then the fault lies with the manager and coaching staff rather than the players, in my opinion. The other advantages of 4 at the back, which can make for a more solid setup, are that everyone clearly knows their role (which is abundantly not clear at the moment), and the team can play another defensive-minded midfielder to prevent us being cut open or outnumbered in midfield  as currently happens 

[Farmer Saint]

4 minutes ago, lambtiss said:

Rubbish, in my opinion. Our best form in the Championship came when we had 2 centre-backs in a back 4 (Bednarek and THB). In fact, our problems started under RM when he tried to shoehorn Jack into a back 5 in January.

We have 5 CBs at the club, one of whom starred in that long unbeaten run. If we can't get a decent pairing out of them, then the fault lies with the manager and coaching staff rather than the players, in my opinion. The other advantages of 4 at the back, which can make for a more solid setup, are that everyone clearly knows their role (which is abundantly not clear at the moment), and the team can play another defensive-minded midfielder to prevent us being cut open or outnumbered in midfield  as currently happens 

Oh well, we'll have to agree to disagree. You can't coach away individual errors/concentration issues, which seems to be what we look for in CBs.

[AlexLaw76]

[benjii]

For some reason, this really cracks me up:

 

 

[Osvaldorama]

11 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Oh well, we'll have to agree to disagree. You can't coach away individual errors/concentration issues, which seems to be what we look for in CBs.

Id argue it’s the formation. 
 

as usual the midfield leaves acres of space that exposes the CBs. 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Osvaldorama said:

Id argue it’s the formation. 
 

as usual the midfield leaves acres of space that exposes the CBs. 

It’s been like that all season. We saw it against Wrexham, wide open 

[Baz Fl]

Please give me some leeway,  if six chefs all fail to make a good dish with the same ingredients perhaps they aren’t all bad chefs, it might just be the shite ingredients they were given. Yes Will is not my personal favorite but every manager has failed miserably here in recent years. A lot of the goals we concede are coco the clown defending and our attacking focal point has been awful for years. SR and Spors are the ones that need to get their act together and sacking another manager is not making this lot into a 5-star meal

[Osvaldorama]

Yeah there is a solid argument to just back Will Still to the maximum and just fuck off any players that don’t like it. 
 

Problem is that could make things worse in the short term. We really need a strong season so we don’t waste the parachute payments though…. 

[lambtiss]

13 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Oh well, we'll have to agree to disagree. You can't coach away individual errors/concentration issues, which seems to be what we look for in CBs.

Those errors are so frustrating, I agree, but hopefully, those errors should reduce if someone has clear responsibility and with a stronger midfield, the defence should have to deal with fewer "exposed" situations. Many teams cope perfectly well with a back 4, as Saints have in the past. If the CBs really are that bad that they can't play in a back 4 then we need to sell them and get a CB who can, in my opinion.

[Gloucester Saint]

52 minutes ago, Saint NL said:

This one is even worse from Tanwell. They sense something....

 

Hit. Nail. Head by Tanswell. This is what House and Blackmore should be doing if they’re performing at a minimum level. But as they’re as pathetic and spineless as the club.

The only ways out of this are dropping further down the EFL, even out of it, and admin again, or SR hand the keys over to an experienced British CEO and football management team. Option 2 means they’d keep the core club in their network but whilst the new leadership are accountable to Dragan, that’s all, and 100% of decisions are in-house working to the budget agreed with Dragan.

[Charlie Wayman]

23 minutes ago, Baz Fl said:

Please give me some leeway,  if six chefs all fail to make a good dish with the same ingredients perhaps they aren’t all bad chefs, it might just be the shite ingredients they were given. Yes Will is not my personal favorite but every manager has failed miserably here in recent years. A lot of the goals we concede are coco the clown defending and our attacking focal point has been awful for years. SR and Spors are the ones that need to get their act together and sacking another manager is not making this lot into a 5-star meal

Very poor analogy

[LuckyNumber7]

2 hours ago, saintant said:

What we're missing and continue to fail to address is tall, strong, powerful players who can compete with the physical side of the game. It's no good signing all these ball playing types who are physically weak - there has to be a mixture including some big, aggressive types who can win battles and get around the pitch. Look at Bournemouth, Brentford, Palace - they lose players but always make sure they have enough of the physical athletes to provide a good balance. We'll always struggle until this is addressed. 

Absolutely this, it's so glaringly obvious. We have some technically good footballers, but they're all small and weak, and we constantly get bullied. There are no bigger players around them to protect them.

The annoying thing is, Spors actually identified that as something he wanted to address in the window...and then didn't. We signed Quarshie who is much more of an athlete, albeit raw. But then almost all our other signings were more of the same. Small, technical players but with no physical presence. Even Downs who is a bigger guy looks incredibly weak and timid.

Until we properly address this, I can't see much changing and it's been like this for years. We haven't had a proper beast in our team since Wanyama.

[Charlie Wayman]

Just show him the door today and stop all this will they/won't they malarkey. It's just bloody laughable that anybody unstairs still thinks he can turn this around. Nothing has changed since matchday 1 under his 'leadership'

1/4 of the season has been wasted on hope.

[Forester]

14 hours ago, CSA96 said:

I don't want to lose too much time to tonight's game but going to share some thoughts I expressed on X and slam them together here...

Have to say that we are quickly arriving at sacking territory for Will Still, unfortunately. I say unfortunately because he has been left high and dry by continuous stupidity from players and yet another fluffed transfer window by Sport Republic. He's not been great but I really do sympathise with the conditions

There's no way of dressing it up, two wins from 11 games when you're managing a relegated PL side that just spent £50m on new players in the window is nowhere near good enough. But the sheer amount of maddening individual mistakes has been staggering

And then you have the summer window. We are 4yrs into Sport Republic's ownership and still rolling out Bazunu and McCarthy as GK options. Needed a proper centre forward for years, yet punted £7m on Damion Downs - who looks dreadful - and Ross Stewart who can't stay fit

4 wins in 49 league games over 17 months. Presided over two relegations - one a huge, season-long humiliation - and continuously failed in windows despite committing funds. Only one decent managerial hire to their name (Martin in 2023) - SR have surely run out of road once and for all?

There is now a run of four games: Blackburn away, Preston home, QPR away, Sheff Wed away before another international break from Nov 9. If he can't win 2/3 of those games and oversee an upturn in performances AND results (wins, not draws) then he will need to go

I put a large share of what's happening on the players but players and squads are not sacked mid-season (nice thought...), but coaches are. Who they'd go for next I have absolutely no idea and I almost don't want to think what sort of hire they might make next, should it come to that

This is a good post

[Baz Fl]

11 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Very poor analogy

Oh, thanks for the leeway! 

[Wade Garrett]

5 hours ago, bpsaint said:

Called last nights result in the build up thread, not that I'm happy about it - it was just so obvious as soon as someone put pressure on us away from home we'd struggle. It's all teams have to do, watch how we set out our stall and then make the changes to counter it and its game over.

I had no faith in the manager appointment to start with, it just absolutely stunk of a typical SR appointment, trying to be clever and unearth a gem, when really it needed someone like the guy Forest have just appointed.

That being said, what's the point of making a change, its utterly embarrassing the number of managers we go through, the problem is higher up the chain, SR and their team of laptop wankers signing players that had good stats in their respective leagues and just assuming they're transferable skills. That bloke that worked for Barclays bank for example, what a complete shambles. Clear the fucking lot out and get a proper scouting network like clubs used to do.

It's not an exaggeration to say we're in a relegation battle, forget any dreams of promotion. We've fluked a win against Wrexham, and beaten bottom of the league Sheff Utd. That's it. We can't score against bang average mid table sides at home, and are getting beaten at mid table sides away. We can't defend,have lost our "main" striker until at least January to injury, and our marquee signing up top is proving to be one of the worst ever CF's to pull on a Saints top.

We are in serious trouble guys.

I agree completely about clearing the laptop wankers out of the club.  But we have to get rid of Still as well.  We are a lame duck with him.

[ChrisPY]

44 minutes ago, Baz Fl said:

Please give me some leeway,  if six chefs all fail to make a good dish with the same ingredients perhaps they aren’t all bad chefs, it might just be the shite ingredients they were given. Yes Will is not my personal favorite but every manager has failed miserably here in recent years. A lot of the goals we concede are coco the clown defending and our attacking focal point has been awful for years. SR and Spors are the ones that need to get their act together and sacking another manager is not making this lot into a 5-star meal

Sport Republic might have spent too much on a tough cut of beef from Waitrose but we’ve had Nathan Jones launching it in the air hoping it comes down as a nicely cooked Welsh lamb cutlet, Will Still who’s read Delia’s complete collection but never actually cooked anything too scared to put it near a flame in case it gets burned and Russell Martin trying to turn it into caviar.

Edited Wednesday at 13:01 by ChrisPY

[Lord Duckhunter]

The buck stops with the manager.
 

It’s simple. Would we be higher up the league with this group of players,  under a different manager? And I’m not talking about Klopp, Jose or fucking Pep, I’m talking about managers in our bag, Chris Wilder, Lego Head, Nathan Jones, Steve Bruce, Frank Lampard, even the bloke up the road. If you think, yes, this squad of players should be higher, then it’s on Still.
 

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect us to be in and around the play off places with this squad. Fuck sake, we leave Aribo out of the squad, 2 top championship players can’t get in the starting 11, that’s how strong we are. Milwall & Charlton would love to have a team that could leave that quality on the bench. Whatever the recruitment faults, this group should be higher and the fact it isn’t, is down to the manager. 

[Farmer Saint]

1 hour ago, Osvaldorama said:

Id argue it’s the formation. 
 

as usual the midfield leaves acres of space that exposes the CBs. 

What, like last night's amazing play from Wood?