Saints 2-1 Wrexham - Match Thread

[benjii]

55 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

according to the laws of the game, if he the penalty is given for that offence, he should have been sent off.

The ref was fucking appalling, so no wonder he got it wrong

The one thing you could potentially say is that it wasn't denial of a goal scoring opportunity, as Stephens was covering and could have blocked the shot.

Don't think he even booked him though!

[Whitey Grandad]

4 minutes ago, saintant said:

Don't know where you get your info from but below is a direct quote from Kevin Friend of the PGMOL

'We're basically looking for examples where it clearly hits the arm unjustifiably, hands above the head, away from the body, to deliberately block the ball from going into the box or into the goal.'

That would be an extremely interpretation.  In my view (and the referee's) his arm had every right to be there. Where else could he put it, and please don't say behind his back.

[benjii]

48 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Thats my understanding. The “ covering player” stuff is for outside the box, determining whether it’s a yellow or red. I thought the rules were changed and inside the box it was a question of whether an attempt was made to play the ball. Wasn’t Fraser sent off last year pulling someone back. 

Yeah, for denial of a goal scoring opportunity. So if Stephens is considered reasonably likely to be blocking the shot / making a challenge, plus the tight angle, you could argue it's not a goal scoring opportunity. 

[Smirking_Saint]

2 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

The 'other circumstance ' being that defined in the sentence above. It wasn't a DOGSO. This is z poor photo. Perhaps some kind soul could invert it for me?

I think the opinion of was it DOGSO is subjective, Id of said it was DOGSO personally as it fits my criteria in that if it was the other wat around Id expect their CB to be sent off 

IMO we got away with one

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Someone fouled, 8 yards from goal, is not a goal scoring opportunity territory.

Jesus

Right first time.

[Whitey Grandad]

Just now, Smirking_Saint said:

I think the opinion of was it DOGSO is subjective, Id of said it was DOGSO personally as it fits my criteria in that if it was the other wat around Id expect their CB to be sent off 

IMO we got away with one

Your view is as valid as anybody's but thankfully there was only one that mattered. Perhaps we can all agree that shoving Moore was a stupid thing to do. Of course as soon as he felt the hands on his back he dived but that doesn't change anything. 

[benjii]

18 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Blatant to you, perhaps, but not to an impartial observer.

 

😆

[gio1saints]

3 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

I think the opinion of was it DOGSO is subjective, Id of said it was DOGSO personally as it fits my criteria in that if it was the other wat around Id expect their CB to be sent off 

IMO we got away with one

Another agreed from me @Whitey Grandadc/o the refs union!😉

[The Realist]

my thoughts on the game:-

we were too slow in the first half.

Wrexham have bought well - good experience but will finish mid table. 

Edwards was taught a lesson by Moore but why was he not helped out by the other 2 CB's?

The front line didn't work.

Player scores:-

Baz: 9.  Excellent save. did nothing wrong and made a game saving save.

Suga: 3.  Offered nothing going forward and was poor in defence

Edwards : 2. Had real problems with Moore and gave the penalty away.  Hopefully he learns from this

Cap Jack : 8. Great sliding tackle, great last minute goal but was also part of a pretty poor defence.

Quarshie: 5. 1st touch is poor and looks a fish out of sea when he brings the ball forward. Raw talent atm

Wellington : 3.  Just don't rate the guy.  Manning a better option

Downes : 6. Good game for little pre-season. Good partnership with Charles

Charles : 7. Looked really classy in the first half but drifted out of the game a bit in the 2nd.

Robinson : 6. Looked good in the first half but drifted out of the game a bit in the 2nd. 

Armstrong : 5. Tried hard but just not his game. Should playon the right

Fraser : 5. Tried his best, not enough good crosses into the box but versatility useful later on

SUBS: 

Manning : 10. MOTM. Went forward, got so many crosses in and was the catalyst for the win with that great free-kick

Fernandes : 5. Didn't really change the game much

Stewart/Archer/Downs: 4. barely touched the ball.

[trousers]

34 minutes ago, mitch01 said:

What a save by Bazunu

 

13 minutes ago, richardc said:

is your stream lagging a bit

No spoilers Mitch, but stay tuned...

[Oldandtired]

8 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

It wasn't a 'fight'. It was a question for clarification, which you avoided.

With you, I don't believe that for one minute....but, to clarify, in my experience we will, at some stage in the season, suffer the same sort of scenario, a perceived injustice not resulting in the kind of refereeing decision we all think was necessary.

Football has always been to me, not just games but in so many ways, the epitome of 'you win some, you lose some'.

[Crab Lungs]

1 hour ago, SWLondon Saint said:

You've got to be joking right? Wrexham were offering very little going forward when Sugawara and Welington went off and they were pulled for fresh attacking players.

And for the Windass shot, when Windass picks the ball up, Quarshie is nearest him but retreats to get to his LCB position and probably either he should have stayed close to him or Stephens has to step up since Edwards sticks to Moore who peels more into a central position. The fullback makes a completely untracked run on the outside which Sugawara gets pulled towards as well, so in the end Suga dives towards the shot from too far away because no-one else is near him.

He's not great but this is totally one-eyed criticism where you're determined to scapegoat the player you can't stand. 

Errrrrr… calm down. I’ve literally never had a pop of Sugawara on here before today.

I actually like Sugawara and Welington. I actually think Sugawara has a lot to offer and in easier home games we’ll see alot more from both.

The substitutions were the correct ones given the players he could have alternatively pulled off. I do agree Wrexham weren’t offering a lot but it was refreshing to say us sub our less impactful players for a change and go for it.

[leeham_69]

right about now

the DOGSO brother

check it out now

[StrangelyBrown]

8 minutes ago, The Realist said:

my thoughts on the game:-

we were too slow in the first half.

Wrexham have bought well - good experience but will finish mid table. 

Edwards was taught a lesson by Moore but why was he not helped out by the other 2 CB's?

The front line didn't work.

Player scores:-

Baz: 9.  Excellent save. did nothing wrong and made a game saving save.

Suga: 3.  Offered nothing going forward and was poor in defence

Edwards : 2. Had real problems with Moore and gave the penalty away.  Hopefully he learns from this

Cap Jack : 8. Great sliding tackle, great last minute goal but was also part of a pretty poor defence.

Quarshie: 5. 1st touch is poor and looks a fish out of sea when he brings the ball forward. Raw talent atm

Wellington : 3.  Just don't rate the guy.  Manning a better option

Downes : 6. Good game for little pre-season. Good partnership with Charles

Charles : 7. Looked really classy in the first half but drifted out of the game a bit in the 2nd.

Robinson : 6. Looked good in the first half but drifted out of the game a bit in the 2nd. 

Armstrong : 5. Tried hard but just not his game. Should playon the right

Fraser : 5. Tried his best, not enough good crosses into the box but versatility useful later on

SUBS: 

Manning : 10. MOTM. Went forward, got so many crosses in and was the catalyst for the win with that great free-kick

Fernandes : 5. Didn't really change the game much

Stewart/Archer/Downs: 4. barely touched the ball.

Lol. Great fishing... I'll bite. If you watch every chance that Wrexham had in the first half Stephens was in the wrong place. He had a poor game other than the goal and the 2 tackles - 8 out of 10 my arse.

[sfc4prem]

1 hour ago, spyinthesky said:

Just a thought, when we were last in the Championship we scored a last minute equaliser in the first home game v Norwich (albeit with a dodgy pen) in a 4-4 draw with Norwich

And a late winner against Wednesday in the first match.

Essentially, don't look too much into it? Sounds about right.

Still, what a fucking win.

[Lord Duckhunter]

That was a good finish for a centre half, quite a tight angle.

Early days but Downs miss was appalling immediately before it. Too airy fairy, weak. All he needed was a decent connection and should have concentrated on that and not be put off by the defender. Let’s hope it’s just a one off, but that’s a fucking tap in for a winning goal on debut and he was a bit timid in the moment imo. 

Armstrong’s “effort” after we hit the post was pretty fucking poor as well. 

 

 

[Matthew Le God]

1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Early days but Downs miss was appalling immediately before it. Too airy fairy, weak. All he needed was a decent connection and should have concentrated on that and not be put off by the defender. Let’s hope it’s just a one off, but that’s a fucking tap in for a winning goal on debut and he was a bit timid in the moment imo. 

He was pushed

[S-Clarke]

10 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

He was pushed

Yeah there was a bit of a tap from Coady, which just moved him those inches away from getting to the ball. No drama though, Stephens was there!

[Midfield_General]

1 hour ago, Saint Gifford said:

Trouble for Wrexham is they are still playing Conference Football, with a Manager still trying to replicate what he / they have done the last few seasons. 

Being physical and making stupid challenges that you get away with in the lower leagues with officials that aren’t at the level of Prem Champ, you will get found out very quickly. 
 

They did get away with it though, all game. They were fouling us all the time and the ref did nothing. 

[BranfootsLoveChild]

On the Wrexham FB page.....

Edited 5 hours ago by BranfootsLoveChild

[gio1saints]

3 minutes ago, BranfootsLoveChild said:

On the Wrexham FB page.....

That’s brilliant! 

[BranfootsLoveChild]

And also, from a Birmingham fan due to their draw on friday night on the Wrexham page.....what total bollocks!

 

Edited 5 hours ago by BranfootsLoveChild

[vectraman]

Wow - what an end to our first match. St Mary’s really was rocking - fab feeling to get a late win when quite honestly I’d have taken a point at 1-0 down in the 90th minute…

Said to my lad - “that’s why you should never leave a game early..”. He gets that now! 
 

My take on it -

We still are terrible at the back. So badly organised - how many free headers did Wrexham get? Why can we not man mark at set pieces? Will Still needs to sort this out urgently. We are also so clumsy - Wrexham could easily have had a second pen when Stephen’s had his hand on their players shoulder and he went down. 
Baz was excellent - game winning save late on - fair play to him - carried on his pre season form - long may it continue 🤞.

Armstrong and Fraser up front was a terrible idea - balls over the top with their dwarfen status was never ever going to work. Absolutely must have a target in the box (Stewart or Downs) if we are getting crosses in. Gives us an option we certainly lacked until changes made later in second half. 
 

Young Robinson was energising, always willing to take a run at them and take them on. Good to see, coaches need to work on first time shots with him - seemed to always take an extra touch when a first time shot would have been the better option. Great prospect, exciting to see him start. 
Clear that fitness has improved! Wrexham were knackered last 10 and we looked energised. Great to see that improvement over last season where we were always looked more unfit than every opponent. 
Fraser and Armstrong worked hard, on another day Arma could have had a couple of goals - some lucky/inspired defending saved Wrexham a few times. (Coady looked decent for them - the sort of experienced and decent CB who can organise and help younger players).

Shea Charles won that game for us!! how - his fab block tackle on Kiefer Moore which saw him go off. We couldn’t deal with him at all - should have just man marked him with Quarshie - who at least could outpace him if he got beaten in the air. Edwards was lost against him - always tugging his shirt and giving away cheap fouls. Obvious to me that it was a mismatch. 
Thank you Saints for making football great again yesterday!!

😀😀😀
 

Edited 4 hours ago by vectraman
Useless autocorrect spelling

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, BranfootsLoveChild said:

And also, from a Birmingham fan due to their draw on friday night on the Wrexham page.....what total bollicks!

 

Very strange takes. Leave them to believe what they want I guess, they're beyond deluded. 

They'll come down with a bump sooner rather than later with reality hits. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

20 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

He was pushed

Fucking pushed 😂.  If he was stronger, he’d have buried it “pushed” or not. He tried to fanny it in. 

[tdmickey3]

Just now, Lord Duckhunter said:

Fucking pushed 😂.  If he was stronger, he’d have buried it “pushed” or not. He tried to fanny it in. 

Pony

[Matthew Le God]

16 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Fucking pushed 😂.  If he was stronger, he’d have buried it “pushed” or not. He tried to fanny it in. 

Nonsense. A push to the strongest man in the world can put them off balance and make them unable to do what they want.

You have unrealistic expectations of human anatomy and physics if you think pushing someone off balance like this wouldn't impact their ability to score. Especially if they are unaware it is coming.

 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by Matthew Le God

[sockeye]

15 minutes ago, BranfootsLoveChild said:

And also, from a Birmingham fan due to their draw on friday night on the Wrexham page.....what total bollocks!

 

The two of them are riding a high wave due to very strong League One seasons, but I think the reality check will hit come September...

[Harry_SFC]

52 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Yeah there was a bit of a tap from Coady, which just moved him those inches away from getting to the ball. No drama though, Stephens was there!

Yeah it was subtle but I'd say it definitely impacted him. As you say, who cares! 

[Midfield_General]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I don't think the referee saw the incident

Yeah that's kind of my point. He missed loads, and got a lot wrong, for both sides. It got quite farcical. 

[Scummer]

52 minutes ago, BranfootsLoveChild said:

On the Wrexham FB page.....

The welcome to Wrexham piss take video advertisement from Midnite on the way back to the station was pretty good as well, did anyone get a video of it?

[Chez]

39 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Nonsense. A push to the strongest man in the world can put them off balance and make them unable to do what they want.

You have unrealistic expectations of human anatomy and physics if you think pushing someone off balance like this wouldn't impact their ability to score. Especially if they are unaware it is coming.

 

 

Looks like he fluffs it. Mistimes the connection...not sure if the nudge caused it or came just a fraction after he missed it.

Happy to give him the benefit of the doubt, but he had one of those games where the ball seemed to never be where he wanted it. He couldn't control the ball either of the two times he got a touch to it. Frustrating, but you get those days.

[SWLondon Saint]

1 hour ago, Crab Lungs said:

Errrrrr… calm down. I’ve literally never had a pop of Sugawara on here before today.

I actually like Sugawara and Welington. I actually think Sugawara has a lot to offer and in easier home games we’ll see alot more from both.

The substitutions were the correct ones given the players he could have alternatively pulled off. I do agree Wrexham weren’t offering a lot but it was refreshing to say us sub our less impactful players for a change and go for it.

Fair enough, I know there are a couple who seem to have it in for him, just like others did for Baz and probably myself criticizing Cap'n Jack in the past!

On the defensive front in general though, that 1v1 Jack got back for which I think he did do well on was an interesting demo of why I think this is his level. At this level players are often not as rock solid technically and tactically - if that was most PL midfielders, it ends in either a goal or a pen and a red card as they just position better. You can get away with Jack's kind of grabby / borderline play in the Champ, you can't in the PL.

[Whitey Grandad]

43 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Yeah that's kind of my point. He missed loads, and got a lot wrong, for both sides. It got quite farcical. 

Wrong in your view, of course, but that is the nature of refereeing.  A lot of it is a matter of opinion.

Edited 4 hours ago by Whitey Grandad
Spilling

[Midfield_General]

4 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Wrong in your view, of course, but that is the nature of refereeing.  A loot of it is a matter of opinion.

Yeah, of course. 

And in my correct opinion he was shit 😛

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Yeah, of course. 

And in my correct opinion he was shit 😛

You should hear what he says about you 😉

[skintsaint]

2 hours ago, benjii said:

The one thing you could potentially say is that it wasn't denial of a goal scoring opportunity, as Stephens was covering and could have blocked the shot.

Don't think he even booked him though!

The fact Wrexham players would have been screaming at the ref to show a red, but they didn't says a lot.

[Charlie Wayman]

1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

Nonsense. A push to the strongest man in the world can put them off balance and make them unable to do what they want.

You have unrealistic expectations of human anatomy and physics if you think pushing someone off balance like this wouldn't impact their ability to score. Especially if they are unaware it is coming.

 

 

Jack is back!

[Smirking_Saint]

2 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

Nonsense. A push to the strongest man in the world can put them off balance and make them unable to do what they want.

You have unrealistic expectations of human anatomy and physics if you think pushing someone off balance like this wouldn't impact their ability to score. Especially if they are unaware it is coming.

 

 

He’s young so Ill let him off, but I played both at striker and then at CB (after ACL tears) in my career

You need to be used to the dark arts and as a CB be adept at them, especially up the levels

Im not going to blame Downs, but it was a poor miss, in those situations you need to position yourself so that any CB doesn’t affect your strike enough, and he didn’t

I rate Downs, he looks good but raw, but you need to allow critique when its valid

[Lord Duckhunter]

45 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Im not going to blame Downs, but it was a poor miss, in those situations you need to position yourself so that any CB doesn’t affect your strike enough, and he didn’t

Exactly . He was in front of the defender, he didn’t have the conviction necessary just waved a foot at it. I’m not even convinced he didn’t miss the ball before the slight bit of contact from the defender. It was a poor effort, that’s for sure. 

[Convict Colony]

1 hour ago, Smirking_Saint said:

He’s young so Ill let him off, but I played both at striker and then at CB (after ACL tears) in my career

You need to be used to the dark arts and as a CB be adept at them, especially up the levels

Im not going to blame Downs, but it was a poor miss, in those situations you need to position yourself so that any CB doesn’t affect your strike enough, and he didn’t

I rate Downs, he looks good but raw, but you need to allow critique when its valid

gonna put it down to the rusty and first game aspect.  at least he was there, Armstrong would be on the pen spot waving his arms around 

[ChrisPY]

All those Hollywood dreams and Jack Stephens wrecks ‘em.

[Kenilworthy59]

Bad as the referee was, the one thing I really appreciated was the clear counting down of the time the keeper was holding the ball before he would concede a corner. That change could make a real difference to football. Shame we didn't have it in the Pulis and Allardyce eras

[Sheaf Saint]

2 hours ago, Chez said:

Looks like he fluffs it. Mistimes the connection...not sure if the nudge caused it or came just a fraction after he missed it.

Happy to give him the benefit of the doubt, but he had one of those games where the ball seemed to never be where he wanted it. He couldn't control the ball either of the two times he got a touch to it. Frustrating, but you get those days.

Yeah I think it came at him a bit too suddenly and he just couldn't adjust his stride to make a connection. It happens sometimes, even to top level strikers. One of those things and not a reflection of his ability as far as I'm concerned.