New Manager Debate

[EBS1980]

6 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

I want somebody better than Tonda. I guess that this means an experienced manager who has been successful in the past and can give out weii deserved kicks up the arse to certain players. 

BUT

What happens in the next few weeks if it turns out that Tonda is a really good manager? What happens if in a few years he is regsrded in the same light as  say Pochettino? So far he has won 2 matches against weak teams but Blackburn, Derby and Swansea were weak teams and we didn't beat any of them. 

I can see the merit in giving him a bit longer in charge. If he can get 9 (or maybe 7) points in the next 3 games he will deserve a spell in charge to at least the end of the season. 

What happens if he fails to win against Charlton and Leicester? The atmosphere will be awful and no doubt the attention will be more on getting SR out of our club for taking so long to replace Still

[Miltonaggro]

2 minutes ago, EBS1980 said:

What happens if he fails to win against Charlton and Leicester? The atmosphere will be awful and no doubt the attention will be more on getting SR out of our club for taking so long to replace Still

He wont get Leicester.

[Mboto Gorge]

3 minutes ago, EBS1980 said:

What happens if he fails to win against Charlton and Leicester? The atmosphere will be awful and no doubt the attention will be more on getting SR out of our club for taking so long to replace Still

The extreme likelihood is, he isn’t about to turn our season around so that we start beating the better sides in the league , of which all 3 of our next opponents fall into that bracket. And everyone can see this eventuality approaching fast. Things will then become even more toxic because he’s shown nothing to suggest he’s suddenly going to improve us or do anything vastly different to still. In my opinion a midtable finish at best will be the outcome with TE in charge. It’s just more of the same old SR dictated dross

[lambtiss]

22 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Contrary to popular belief we’ve had quite a lot of experienced players and managers under SR. Only Selles and Rusk actually are similar manager wise. Jones, Martin and Still all had ample managerial experience but were just younger so people didn’t trust it and Juric also had plenty of experience. Player wise also we’ve got plenty of experienced crap but again, because it’s crap it hasn’t worked out and again people much prefer to focus on the young/inexperienced signings instead.

I think the key thing here is relevant experience. Neither Still nor Juric had managed in this country. Again, neither Martin nor Jones had managed in the Premiership. 

[CB Fry]

36 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Contrary to popular belief we’ve had quite a lot of experienced players and managers under SR. Only Selles and Rusk actually are similar manager wise. Jones, Martin and Still all had ample managerial experience but were just younger so people didn’t trust it and Juric also had plenty of experience. Player wise also we’ve got plenty of experienced crap but again, because it’s crap it hasn’t worked out and again people much prefer to focus on the young/inexperienced signings instead.

You are stretching the truth a bit there.

Nathan Jones did not have the experience to step into a decade-long established Premier League club. He had already shit the bed at Stoke City one league down. To "contrary to popular belief" him as being suitably experienced is fucking insane.

Will Still had delivered one of the worst seasons in Lens recent history. He was borderline experienced but at 32 clearly a punt that he really was a boy wonder. "Contrary to popular belief" he was recruited for his potential not his wealth of experience.

Martin and Juric yes fine appropriate for the division they were appointed to.

The issue with inexperienced I think players is more about our Ralph Premier season. For last year's debacle we just bought not enough quality and this year Damion Downs is obviously the lightening rod, rightly. It's not experience per se, he's just terrible.

[Lighthouse]

28 minutes ago, lambtiss said:

I think the key thing here is relevant experience. Neither Still nor Juric had managed in this country. Again, neither Martin nor Jones had managed in the Premiership. 

Neither had Poch, Ralph nor Koeman. All that really matters is experience at a decent level of football. There're no special rules in Italy and France that Still and Juric couldn't get their head around. Still didn't have a clue what his best team or tactics were, Juric was never going to change our fortunes with the players we had. 

[Mboto Gorge]

8 hours ago, jrobsbigshorts said:

Ha , don't know how I can defend myself against these allegations!

it's been so bad for so long I just wanted to highlight a rare positive in the shit show we've had since last season, I'm no fan of sports republic and think they've tried to be way too clever with their recruitment and have blown our chance to go straight back up to the prem and I'm pissed off they scapegoated Will Still to to deflect the criticism levelled at them and to do it with no replacement in mind is unforgivable, I wrote that post cos at the Wednesday game I was sat pitchside and I honestly saw better patterns of play and shape the other day , obviously against terrible opposition but Swansea are terrible too this season and we looked awful , I don't think Tonda is necessarily the answer but I don't think it's as simple as getting an established manager , dropping Baz, making the players try harder and playing 4 at the back which seems to be the considered wisdom on here, maybe a period of relative stability would do us good as it looks like the road back to the prem could be very long, as promotion is out of reach now maybe it's better not to rush into appointing someone that won't really bring in many of there own players  til the summer, of course I'd take Rose or Lampard tomorrow but that's not gonna happen 

I've honestly read the forum years and I didn't expect to be ripped into for a post that was just my opinion of what I saw in a match

So you’ve read this forum for years apparently, yet through everything, promotion and relegations, you’ve never been compelled to post until now when there’s a debate on the new manager, and you’ve felt so strongly about this that you’ve signed up and the first thing you’ve done is to cast your vote for Eckert on the poll. Literally the first thing you did at the very same time as writing your first post. Stop taking fans for fools. 

Edited 37 minutes ago by Mboto Gorge

[StrangelyBrown]

8 hours ago, jrobsbigshorts said:

Ha , don't know how I can defend myself against these allegations!

it's been so bad for so long I just wanted to highlight a rare positive in the shit show we've had since last season, I'm no fan of sports republic and think they've tried to be way too clever with their recruitment and have blown our chance to go straight back up to the prem and I'm pissed off they scapegoated Will Still to to deflect the criticism levelled at them and to do it with no replacement in mind is unforgivable, I wrote that post cos at the Wednesday game I was sat pitchside and I honestly saw better patterns of play and shape the other day , obviously against terrible opposition but Swansea are terrible too this season and we looked awful , I don't think Tonda is necessarily the answer but I don't think it's as simple as getting an established manager , dropping Baz, making the players try harder and playing 4 at the back which seems to be the considered wisdom on here, maybe a period of relative stability would do us good as it looks like the road back to the prem could be very long, as promotion is out of reach now maybe it's better not to rush into appointing someone that won't really bring in many of there own players  til the summer, of course I'd take Rose or Lampard tomorrow but that's not gonna happen 

I've honestly read the forum years and I didn't expect to be ripped into for a post that was just my opinion of what I saw in a match

Playing 4 at the back isn't necessarily the "considered wisdom" as you put it. But we can see that no one has a clue how to play 3 at the back properly so that we don't get overrun in midfield.

Perhaps our coaches could watch a Conte team and see what the extra defender does - this is clearly some education that is missing?

[Nolan]

What is ludicrous is the amount of people be saying we don't want to Eckert based on "feels".

He's won two from two. I've no idea if that keeps going or not. But there's also no guarantee that any other name comes in and gets points.

Until there's any evidence that Eckert is utterly crap, and we've not seen that yet, let's see if we can continue the win streak. 

Absolutely no long term decision is needed yet.

 

[badgerx16]

10 hours ago, Draino76 said:

This arrogant bulshitter is the root of all our problems. 

Rasmus, Rasmus, so good GOOGLE hired him twice.

[AlexLaw76]

17 minutes ago, Nolan said:

What is ludicrous is the amount of people be saying we don't want to Eckert based on "feels".

He's won two from two. I've no idea if that keeps going or not. But there's also no guarantee that any other name comes in and gets points.

Until there's any evidence that Eckert is utterly crap, and we've not seen that yet, let's see if we can continue the win streak. 

Absolutely no long term decision is needed yet.

 

WHy not give it Lallana, or Jack Stephens as player coach..or The Kit man?

So, when he gets embarrassed by Nathan Jones, do we THEN look for someone else, given he will be 1 loss from 1..?

Edited 13 minutes ago by AlexLaw76

[Mboto Gorge]

17 minutes ago, Nolan said:

What is ludicrous is the amount of people be saying we don't want to Eckert based on "feels".

He's won two from two. I've no idea if that keeps going or not. But there's also no guarantee that any other name comes in and gets points.

Until there's any evidence that Eckert is utterly crap, and we've not seen that yet, let's see if we can continue the win streak. 

Absolutely no long term decision is needed yet.

 

Ok well let’s look at the evidence to date, against QPR we were utterly crap, we had 2 shots on target in the entire game and were bailed out by scienza scoring a worldy. The final 20 mins after we conceded was the single worst piece of game management I’ve ever seen from a saints side. The only other piece of evidence we have is a match at home to a bankrupt club who have no players and are rock bottom even without their huge points deduction, in which we were gifted the first goal and generally won thanks to the terrible standard of the opposition. So let’s have some realism here. Had he played 2 sides in the top half we’d almost certainly have got beaten in both games playing the way we did, or at the very best, 1 point. And let’s not get started on him bringing Bazunu back into the side based on “a feeling”

Edited 12 minutes ago by Mboto Gorge

[HarvSFC]

There's also a fair amount of difference between appointing a manager in a two week international break than there is appointing one in December. "Lets wait until Eckhart starts losing matches to appoint the new manager" then you've got matches every three days and all of a sudden it's the transfer window. 

[lambtiss]

45 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Neither had Poch, Ralph nor Koeman. All that really matters is experience at a decent level of football. There're no special rules in Italy and France that Still and Juric couldn't get their head around. Still didn't have a clue what his best team or tactics were, Juric was never going to change our fortunes with the players we had. 

Yes, but those 3 were exceptional managers compared to what we can attract at the moment and with much better players at their disposal. When we were struggling last time, we went back to basics with reliable names like Pardew. I feel that is what we need now.