Saints 3-2 WBA - Match Thread

[tdmickey3]

2 minutes ago, washsaint said:

What an utter bunch of melts on here these days.

We won and Bazunu made some excellent saves.  I'm certain Tonda will learn from this but he is also trying to keep players fresh playng 3 games a week at the moment.

Terrible, complacent second half and we have to be able to shut down the crosses coming in and standing off players.

But 6 wins from 7 is dreamland from where we were.

He shows no sign of learning but we can hope i suppose but i am not convinced 

[Chez]

2 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

Think the game management issues are several;

- he’s trying to save the legs of our best players, but is making the changes too early

if it keeps Sienza fit then it might be a price worth paying?

[saintant]

5 minutes ago, Saint NL said:

So to get anything against Coventry next week we're going to need to score 7 (seven) by half time.

So you'd be happy with a 7-7 draw then 🙂

[Saint NL]

I just had to double check if Fraser came on or if I imagined it. I can't remember him doing anything 🤨

[Baird of the land]

Not sure he was do much resting scienza, as taking him off as he’d completely disappeared from the game.

[ErwinK1961]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

if it keeps Sienza fit then it might be a price worth paying?

He needs to be protected at all costs, as without him we’re nothing. But another 10mins or so and the games probably dead.

[Oh no Mick Mills]

Great to get the 3 pts but that 2nd half was shite. .

Those 4 corners on the trot where they won the header every time was absolutely terrible defending and luckily Bazunu did a good job tonight. 

Attack wise top 3 side.

Defensively.  Midtable....this is why we're unlikely to get promoted .

[SWLondon Saint]

2 minutes ago, Dr Who? said:

Still need a proper keeper and centre back in January and we can push for the top 2. We should be in the playoffs even with how it is at the moment. 

Again, even though I would love us to replace Bazunu, I honestly don't think a different GK and / or CB would help as the problem is us just being far too deep and allowing the other team to cross at will.

[PerthshireSaint]

Don’t care, just so happy after last year. 

[chownie20]

Think when Tonda decides it's time to shut up shop then he needs to tweak the shape a bit too. Maybe be brave enough to go 433 once games are won.

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

Saints need to go full on attack. Start the subs when they're 4-0 or 5-1 up!

 

[sadoldgit]

1 minute ago, tdmickey3 said:

Ok mush, remember Millwall

We aren’t going to win them all.

There seemed to be a lot of hoofing it long (Plan B?) second half and it just kept coming back at us. We played controlling football in the first half but just seem to sit back and defend. Maybe being 3 up makes us think the game is won at half time?  Fair play to West Brom though. They pulled themselves together, put in a great effort and will be gutted they didn’t come away with a point.

[Micky]

Missed the first half (thanks sky). Second half was so passive we looked like the away side.  Subs were made too early and didn't make any sense, completely lost the midfield after Fellows and Scienza went off.  In fact every sub seemed to make us weaker, we struggled to get over the half way line.  Got lucky in the end when Junior slashed it wide from 6 yards.

[beatlesaint]

I’m afraid the constant introduction of Aribo isn’t doing us any favours.

[tdmickey3]

Just now, sadoldgit said:

We aren’t going to win them all.

There seemed to be a lot of hoofing it long (Plan B?) second half and it just kept coming back at us. We played controlling football in the first half but just seem to sit back and defend. Maybe being 3 up makes us think the game is won at half time?  Fair play to West Brom though. They pulled themselves together, put in a great effort and will be gutted they didn’t come away with a point.

Dear oh dear.

They couldn't believe their luck that they were given such an easy way back into the game and we did our mismanaged best to give them a point

[Midfield_General]

36 minutes ago, Challenger said:

It's very much a nativity thing.

Very festive

[Harry_SFC]

4 minutes ago, chownie20 said:

Think when Tonda decides it's time to shut up shop then he needs to tweak the shape a bit too. Maybe be brave enough to go 433 once games are won.

Exactly what I said on the other thread. Got to keep the ball better and having more men in midfield would help with that. 

[UpweySaint]

Lots to like about us but the second half was tough. We almost beat their press and got out a few times but couldn’t hold up the ball. I found myself thinking how useful it would be to bring a more combative forward off the bench. Archer didn’t do much wrong but a fit Stewart could have made a real difference and given us the option is hitting long forcing them to either drop a little or risk us going over long where there was space to find.

[Chez]

3 minutes ago, Oh no Mick Mills said:

....this is why we're unlikely to get promoted.

hope you are wrong.

[davefizzy14]

Fantastic first half, three quality goals from Scienza 😊 and a double for Adam Armstrong 😊

Second half, we sat back too deep and didn't control things as much. I reckon Tonda will stop this from happening going forward and maybe switch to a back four in second halves. Bazunu made three very good stops late in the second half. 

Edited 13 hours ago by davefizzy14

[Vancouver Saint]

Writing before reading...talk about Jekyl and Hyde! What was that first half team vs second-half team?!

Looked brilliant the first 40 minutes or so completely dominant and scything through them at will - but second half - OMG what a transformation the wrong way!

Bazunu simply not good enough - what keeper at this level cannot command his 3-yard box in the middle of the goal for corners? Defence looked TERRIBLE the minute they were put under any pressure. That could and probably should have been 3-3.
Tons of work to do...including the manager. "Southampton should never have been in this position (5 minutes to go and looking likely to throw away a 3-0 lead)" says the West Brom commentator - too right!

I am obviously relieved we won and let's take the positive...but so much of the brilliant first half was undone by a dire second half performance.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, UpweySaint said:

Lots to like about us but the second half was tough. We almost beat their press and got out a few times but couldn’t hold up the ball. I found myself thinking how useful it would be to bring a more combative forward off the bench. Archer didn’t do much wrong but a fit Stewart could have made a real difference and given us the option is hitting long forcing them to either drop a little or risk us going over long where there was space to find.

Good point. 

Stewart is about 2 weeks away, right?

[E_H_Saints]

I have been saying all along that we need a leader in defence.  They need someone who can organise and lay into the lazy defending.  Most teams feel good at 2-0 whereas we are all thinking we will need a third and that alone says it all.  

[tdmickey3]

1 minute ago, davefizzy14 said:

Fantastic first half, three quality goals from Scienza 😊 and a double for Adam Armstrong 😊

Second half, we sat back too deep and didn't control things as much. I reckon Tonda will stop this from happening going forward and maybe switch to a back four in second halves.

We didn't control anything at all 2nd half

[Greedyfly]

Fuck me there are some right nellies in here.  I think it really comes down to a bit of complacency having stomped teams every first half, and then some fatigue.  I don't think Tonda has all the answers just yet, and there are a few things to work on but WBA are really the first team to give us much trouble post HT and you know, we just won the 6th in 7th game.

[S-Clarke]

First half - decent, took our chances, pressed them high and were very clinical. I don't think WBA were poor in that first half per-say, we were just sharper and pushed higher. Leo/Fellows are causing teams all sorts of problems at the moment with their movement and running. Armstrong is just scoring goals as he does at this level, top scorer in the league now I think.

Second half - dear oh dear. That was as bad as we've played all season, and I've watched some shit. We surrendered any control we had, WBA sensed it and pushed high. They pressed us, we dropped off, went all passive and from that point on we'd surrendered the game and it was theirs to win. And they probably should have on that 2nd half, that's how bad we were.

Mentally this team is still damaged goods - just look at the mistakes they started making as soon as it went 3-1, and then 3-2. THB was solid with his passing first half, but all of a sudden he was shanking it left right and centre - that's not ability, that's just pure phycological and nerves. It's still ridden throughout the side.

We were very, very, very lucky to win that - make no doubts. We got out of the woods here. We need to take this as a very 'fortunate' lesson, because if we play like that in the coming weeks we will tumble back down that league like a pack of cards.

[UpweySaint]

2 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Dear oh dear.

They couldn't believe their luck that they were given such an easy way back into the game and we did our mismanaged best to give them a point

We didn’t though. We won. We’ve won six out of seven under Tonda and lost the millwall game to a worldie from a centre back. Are you enjoying it at all? It may all go to shit but given how the season started I’m surprised you are so focused on the negatives when the positives seem to outweigh them.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Bloody brilliant match ... first 10 mins was boring cagey, proper wet Tuesday night football until we exploded ... a delight to watch for the next 30 mins. 

2nd half you could see Scienza and Fellows were a) being marked and hassled out of the game and b) flagging (in Scienza's case more). West Brom came out to stifle them both. I think it just shows we need better options off the bench than Aribo and Fraser. Our best defence is attacking.

But a wonderful 3 points, the team continues to gel and learn together - great times! Pretty sure 3 points from Norwich and I think we'll be playing Coventry at the right time too ... 

[kevdoh]

11 minutes ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

Can I ask which app you use? 

The app I use is called perfect media. Need to pay for IPTV service to get login details and thats it

[Holmes_and_Watson]

A combination of some of our best, and some of our weaknesses on show.

Overall. we'd once again done enough in the first half. Tonda will be looking at how we compete, while holding onto even a good lead.

We were very clinical first half, getting a 3 nil lead through some lovely precision passing, team work and AA's work rate and finishing. We didn't need to create much to get that lead.

AA, Fellowes and Scienza opened up the opposition again, with Azaz there to link things up. Jander and Downes controlled the middle well, and THB was the CB getting forward. Loads of positives. After the third, we lowered the pace somewhat leading into half time.

Second half, we continued in the same vein. But, when we needed to increase the pace and use space, we struggled a bit. Albion's first came just as we were considering our usual subs. At our tempo, and with the amount of time left, Tonda did the right thing in keeping AA on for an extra 10-15 minutes. When he went off, we dropped again, having to clear a number of corners, before 1 went in. Despite a number of decent saves, Baz was stranded and easily outmuscled for that second.

Albion had an excellent chance to level towards the end too. Manning doing just enough to stop a clean strike.

Tonda's not been in charge long. And you can see what he's looking for in the subs. With a settled first 11, he will no doubt be working on how to best utilise the subs and manage the game, after great opening work.

It's not as though there weren't positives in the subs. Archer looked keen, even if we didn't create much for him. Although slated a bit, Aribo's presence made a difference. At the moment we just don't have a plan to use our subs to take advantage of breaks or put pressure on opponents. Robinson was quiet. He did well late on helping the ball in the corner, only to then move across and give up possession.

While Fellowes isn't a wing back, Fraser really isn't. A lot of WBA's attacks went past him. It's a known gap in the squad, as is the lack of a focal point to help us in such games. Aribo's the closest we have, so hopefully we'll see that being worked on.

Quarshie still looks raw, but you can see improvements. So, good to see him get minutes. 

Another win getting us towards playoff places, is more than I thought we'd get at this stage, after our start. You could tell at the final whistle, there was a sense of things to be worked on, rather than resting on that first half. So, more positives there too. 

Mindful of the improvements, the squad can take a lot of credit from the game and are certainly working hard in the right direction.

[Turkish]

22 minutes ago, Raging Bull said:

That’s what my wife said 

I thought it was “you can put it all in now”

[Lord Duckhunter]

Good first half. Tried to see the second half out and maybe got a bit complacent. Poor keeper and defence are going to cost us, but our forward play is different level…

[tdmickey3]

1 minute ago, UpweySaint said:

We didn’t though. We won. We’ve won six out of seven under Tonda and lost the millwall game to a worldie from a centre back. Are you enjoying it at all? It may all go to shit but given how the season started I’m surprised you are so focused on the negatives when the positives seem to outweigh them.

 

 Love the good stuff but don't ignore the awful stuff by pretending it doesn't happen 

[Chez]

6 minutes ago, chownie20 said:

Think when Tonda decides it's time to shut up shop then he needs to tweak the shape a bit too. Maybe be brave enough to go 433 once games are won.

i wondered about that, we drop off and its easy for them to get into our third of the pitch quickly, but not sure we want to withdraw a CB when they are hoofing it into the box.

[Jack]

7 minutes ago, chownie20 said:

Think when Tonda decides it's time to shut up shop then he needs to tweak the shape a bit too. Maybe be brave enough to go 433 once games are won.

100%. I think that was an arrogant 2nd half performance to think we could just knock it about and see the game out. We need to find a way of stopping a hundred crosses coming in because we’re pretty hopeless at defending them. 
 

Not at all convinced by Quarshie, especially playing next to Manning as they just ping shit passes at each other and Baz. Would’ve been happy to see Stephens on and I don’t rate him either 

[sadoldgit]

15 minutes ago, washsaint said:

What an utter bunch of melts on here these days.

We won and Bazunu made some excellent saves.  I'm certain Tonda will learn from this but he is also trying to keep players fresh playng 3 games a week at the moment.

Terrible, complacent second half and we have to be able to shut down the crosses coming in and standing off players.

But 6 wins from 7 is dreamland from where we were.

That is the main point. 6 wins from 7. If anyone had suggested he would have so many points on the board in his first 7 games they would have been laughed off the forum. It hasn’t always been pretty but he has got us scoring goals and winning games. Got to be happy with that.

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

Just now, Greedyfly said:

Fuck me there are some right nellies in here.  I think it really comes down to a bit of complacency having stomped teams every first half, and then some fatigue.  I don't think Tonda has all the answers just yet, and there are a few things to work on but WBA are really the first team to give us much trouble post HT and you know, we just won the 6th in 7th game.

I'm happy that Saints won but annoyed and frustrated with the second half. 

Then second halves are a recurring theme. So to me a valid concern.

As another's poster pointed out, Stewart would have been a good outlet. So hope he comes back soon with Charles.

[SWLondon Saint]

For some reason all our recent managers seem to think 3 CB makes us more secure or something but I have no idea what they're seeing. The huge problem with the way we do it is they all want to defend in front of the goal which means on the flanks the wing back is often 1v2, so a midfielder has to drop back there which opens up a ton of space elsewhere to switch it, cross it, whatever really.

Just having 2 CBs and then a FB and winger defending the flanks would make a huge difference. OR if he's determined to stick with the 3 CB then the one on the ball side has to go out wide. But that does not seem to be part of the plan right now and we're getting shafted.

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, UpweySaint said:

We didn’t though. We won. We’ve won six out of seven under Tonda and lost the millwall game to a worldie from a centre back. Are you enjoying it at all? It may all go to shit but given how the season started I’m surprised you are so focused on the negatives when the positives seem to outweigh them.

 

Indeed. After winning 4 games in 50 matches we’ve now won 6 in 7. We’re scoring loads of goals, some of our football has been as good to watch as we’ve seen in years. Yeah we’re shit defensively but I’m just enjoying winning right now. It’s a feeling we’re not used to

[Midfield_General]

32 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

If we could defend we'd win the league. Not sure if we can afford another cb in Jan but we definitely need something.

We need three things: a proper goalkeeper, a central defender who understands how toi organise a back line, and a defensive coach who kicks things off with how to defend corners. 

Get those in January and we're sorted. 

[macca155]

Six wins in seven is not to be sniffed at, but totally unnecessary self inflicted anxiety in the 2nd half.

What the hell were they doing dropping back like that. WBA were shite, but even they realised that there huge gaps to be exploited behind our wing backs. We all know (and so does the rest of the  league), that Saints can't defend crosses.

Bolster the midfield and give it some energy. 3 0 up you don't need 3 cbs

Need some FBs in January, that's for sure. Plus a CB who can put his head on a ball.

However 3 points in the bag, that 2nd half will be soon forgotten.

On to Norwich.

 

 

[SWLondon Saint]

4 minutes ago, Chez said:

i wondered about that, we drop off and its easy for them to get into our third of the pitch quickly, but not sure we want to withdraw a CB when they are hoofing it into the box.

Well even with 3 CBs we don't seem to be able to win a header in the box, those corners they had were ridiculous, they won the header 4 times in a row. That can't be right.

[Willo of Whiteley]

So to summarise, excellent first half, the way we switch from snail pace to lightening acceleration was very good and caught Weat Brom off guard. A bit of luck and we could’ve scored maybe another in the first half. Very tidy and composed performance.
My only concern was the defensive pissing about, not as bad as under Russell Martin but still a lot of nerves for the fans when it’s sprayed across goal.

Second half quite aim play was terrible. Once again inviting pressure. Taking off key players so early shows two things: one - basically us saying “we’re not going to attack you anymore”, and two - how inadequate and weak our bench is.
There is almost no one outside of our current starting eleven that I would say could make a notable difference to a game. That is concerning.

The West Brom goals were coming. Basically enticing them in the entire half, several times players left unmarked on the edge of the box, weak defending from set pieces today. Gavin Bazunu made a few good saves in quick succession prior to the second goal, I’m sure some will put blame on him for conceding two as per usual but quite simply he kept us in it for slightly longer.

Fantastic win on the face of it, but it feels very hollow after that second half performance.

[UpweySaint]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

Indeed. After winning 4 games in 50 matches we’ve now won 6 in 7. We’re scoring loads of goals, some of our football has been as good to watch as we’ve seen in years. Yeah we’re shit defensively but I’m just enjoying winning right now. It’s a feeling we’re not used to

This. I get the pragmatic approach and the ingrained negativity from others given recent experiences as a saints fan but all the more reason to enjoy the current spell. We look bloody good going forwards - dare I say exciting to watch. We’re far from the finished article and hiring a rookie coach may come with inevitable “learning on the job” but if we can keep out scoring enough teams while Tonda and our relatively young team develop some steel and game management it could be an exciting second half of the season. In the thread somebody mentioned the Coventry game and it struck me how mad it seems given where we were when Still left to be actually doing autos maths rather than looking over our shoulder at Oxford and worrying we may be down there with the Blue mob!

[Wade Garrett]

Thought Downes was excellent again.

Great win.  Just a bit critical of our wing backs when we’re under the cosh - none of them - Manning, Fellows or Frazer can defend.  Would have preferred Edwards to come on and play the right side when Fellows was subbed.

How good was that first half though.

[Greedyfly]

7 minutes ago, JohnnyShearer2.0 said:

I'm happy that Saints won but annoyed and frustrated with the second half. 

Then second halves are a recurring theme. So to me a valid concern.

As another's poster pointed out, Stewart would have been a good outlet. So hope he comes back soon with Charles.

No they are not, which is precisely, well some of, my point.  We weren't really pressed by Brum, Charlton, Wednesday or Leicester after HT - a little by QPR, and a lot by WBA.  It's called overreaction and its fucking tragic after the 6th win in 7.

 

Some have been able to put the concerns into a coherent reaction - as I would argue yours mostly is, and I would agree with some of those concerns - but the fucking short-term bias on 45 mins of average footy is fucking jarring when we should be happy with the win first, and then do some actual post mortem afterwards.  The guy has been in charge for 7 senior games - Aribo is the answer to no questions, and fucking Archer is so shit I don't know where to start but with Stewart maybe, maybe even Downs and defo Charles I think we start to have better options across the park.  

[pingpong]

We're over reliant on bazunu, this must be 9 to 12 points he has got us this season - too many, at some point he will stop saving us and we need all the points we can get if we want to get second. I don't know what the solution is because we can't afford to change fellows the way he is playing. No arguments with the way downes and jander are playing either, but we seem to be missing the extra man a little bit too often.

Will be interesting to see what happens when Charles is back.

 

[ErwinK1961]

17 minutes ago, UpweySaint said:

We didn’t though. We won. We’ve won six out of seven under Tonda and lost the millwall game to a worldie from a centre back. Are you enjoying it at all? It may all go to shit but given how the season started I’m surprised you are so focused on the negatives when the positives seem to outweigh them.

 

Can’t be that surprised in view of whose posting it 😉

[Midfield_General]

1 minute ago, pingpong said:

We're over reliant on bazunu, this must be 9 to 12 points he has got us this season - too many, at some point he will stop saving us and we need all the points we can get if we want to get second. I don't know what the solution is because we can't afford to change fellows the way he is playing. No arguments with the way downes and jander are playing either, but we seem to be missing the extra man a little bit too often.

Will be interesting to see what happens when Charles is back.

 

What in god's name are you on about

[saintstowin]

OR's first comeback yellow I think. And very unlucky getting it for having his head smashed into. I thought Downes' foul directly after it was the cynical yellow card type foul.