Saints Expelled from Playoffs

[Chez]

4 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

It'll look all the more ridiculous when City get a 5 point deduction for their 115 charges.

Maybe if it was the EFL making the decision, City would have bene punished by now?

Maybe if we had spent as much money as City have on lawyers, the 2026 play off final would be in 2029.

[Bewildered]

Just now, S-Clarke said:

 

What an arrogant cunt Parsons is. Of course gibson is going to go full asshole if you go up to him and act like you're going to get away with a slap on the wrist.

[Osvaldorama]

1 minute ago, The Wyvern said:

Anyone know which lawyers we’ve used for this?

Trotters independent traders?

[sadoldgit]

20 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

I guess if we don't get reinstated, next best thing is to pass them on their way down if they go up, after scraping to 10 points next season in the EPL.

I’m conflicted. Part of me wants to see Hull hammer them but part of me also wants them to go up and have a worse season in the Prem than we did.

[sadoldgit]

Just now, Osvaldorama said:

Trotters independent traders?

More like Trigger!

[Midfield_General]

17 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

The appeal is just a default thing really, we were always going to do so. We'll probably appeal the severity, the game will be postponed, we'll get nowhere with it, and end up with a further 10 point deduction as Parsons admits to further occasions.

Parsons simply cannot be left in charge after this debacle. 

How can he be trusted to handle anything? He's clearly a complete cretin who has actively made an already shit situation a hundred times worse. 

Presumably heads are going to roll and his should be first. He has to go, immediately. 

[Gloucester Saint]

1 minute ago, Bewildered said:

What an arrogant cunt Parsons is. Of course gibson is going to go full asshole if you go up to him and act like you're going to get away with a slap on the wrist.

Embarrassing. Doesn’t reflect well on James Dyson that this moron was on his payroll for some time. 

[Saint_clark]

I'm not on any social media, have any players reacted on twitter, insta etc?

[SaintNewForest]

Just now, Midfield_General said:

Parsons simply cannot be left in charge after this debacle. 

How can he be trusted to handle anything? He's clearly a complete cretin who has actively made an already shit situation a hundred times worse. 

Presumably heads are going to roll and his should be first. He has to go, immediately. 

Parsons, Tonda & Spors all have to be gone by the end of the week. 

.

[badgerx16]

4 minutes ago, The Wyvern said:

Anyone know which lawyers we’ve used for this?

[hypochondriac]

Off to bed now but just popping into say:

Tonda 

Spors 

Parsons 

Analyst team 

All must go.

[SNSUN]

5 minutes ago, The Wyvern said:

Anyone know which lawyers we’ve used for this?

[S-Clarke]

Just now, Midfield_General said:

Parsons simply cannot be left in charge after this debacle. 

How can he be trusted to handle anything? He's clearly a complete cretin who has actively made an already shit situation a hundred times worse. 

Presumably heads are going to roll and his should be first. He has to go, immediately. 

As this content comes out in the light of day, you kind of aren't surprised at how badly run we've been for many years now. This level of incompetence seems to be the norm.

Another angle I don't think anyone has mentioned - would Sponsors be calling up at this point, potentially tarnishing their brand? There is so much to come out of this, it's the national media mud sling that's going to really hurt us longer term. And Boro have played that almost perfectly up against our buffons.

[Willo of Whiteley]

5 minutes ago, The Wyvern said:

Anyone know which lawyers we’ve used for this?

George, probably 

[Reggie Dunlop]

Should Saints get reinstated to play in the final, who would actually want to go?

Edited 6 hours ago by Reggie Dunlop

[OttawaSaint]

I'm livid with these idiots. Such a fucking stupid thing to do.

FUCKING MISERABLE supporting this team under SR. Looked like we'd turned the corner but they were sneaking about bringing shame upon the fans and players.

Embarrassed. Fed up and seriously considering disowning the club until these twats (SR) are gone.

 

[hypochondriac]

Also how on earth do we go about trying to mount some sort of challenge next year? More likely to get relegated you would have thought. This will probably have condemned us to the doldrums for years.

[Osvaldorama]

1 minute ago, Reggie Dunlop said:

Should Saints get reinstated to play in the final, who would actually want to go?

Of course I’ll be there 

 

 

[Saint86]

3 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Parsons simply cannot be left in charge after this debacle. 

How can he be trusted to handle anything? He's clearly a complete cretin who has actively made an already shit situation a hundred times worse. 

Presumably heads are going to roll and his should be first. He has to go, immediately. 

He has always been an inept cretin. It's been obvious for years and few of us have said it. Sadly he appears to have now completely ruined the club.

Hard to see a way back from this. I fear a few miserable few seasons sliding to ignominy, financial plight, and relegation.

[Cascadia Saint]

8 minutes ago, The Wyvern said:

Anyone know which lawyers we’ve used for this?

[OneMrsWallace]

25 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

The EFL are almost as bad as SFC. Very poor processes and policies.

When meshed with VAR and Infantino, it really is a piss poor sport these days. 

They had the opportunity to postpone the second leg and didn't react quickly enough. The EFL are a client of the body responsible for the decision. Surely a conflict of interest. They are ignoring their own rule of allowing 14 days for the appeals process and kangaroo courting it in to 24 hours. So yes, we've fucked up, but they are a truly shit organisation. 

[Gloucester Saint]

3 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

As this content comes out in the light of day, you kind of aren't surprised at how badly run we've been for many years now. This level of incompetence seems to be the norm.

Another angle I don't think anyone has mentioned - would Sponsors be calling up at this point, potentially tarnishing their brand? There is so much to come out of this, it's the national media mud sling that's going to really hurt us longer term. And Boro have played that almost perfectly up against our buffons.

Cortese rightly got a lot of shit for his behaviour and the Staplewood overspend.

But he’d have handled this a fuck sight better.

As would 99% of this message board from our different professions and trades. 

[miltonroad]

17 minutes ago, Forester said:

Like everyone else, appalled at the motive and incompetence to orchestrate spying against the rules.

However I do feel the level of punishment is too harsh, and feel strongly that we are entitled to a fair appeal.  From my experience of disciplinary and legal cases, this requires:

 

- Full disclosure by EFL panel of grounds for their decision.  This is typically a letter running to several pages (often more than ten) which should not only set out the evidence but also the considerations on punishment, options excluded, mitigation (including the fact that we admitted things and co-operated).

- I read in recent days that we will only get a brief summary today, and full letter to follow later in the summer.  But that isn’t good enough.  If we are to have fair appeal we need to know everything in that letter.

- We need time for our legal advisers to prepare the grounds for appeal.   How is this credible in 24 hours?

- And so the only fair approach is for appeal to be delayed, which means postponing final, and this to flow from the panel’s letter.

This may also sound legalistic and focussed on process, but even if we just get the points reduction reduced it is important to see this through.  It’s not about denying guilt, but just as burglary and murder don’t carry the same sentence this situation demands proportionate response.

Any chance you could take a pro bono case at short notice? 

[SNSUN]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

Also how on earth do we go about trying to mount some sort of challenge next year? More likely to get relegated you would have thought. This will probably have condemned us to the doldrums for years.

It's a very real concern. It's a worst case scenario but nonetheless a real concern. Getting expelled from the final was also a worst case scenario but not many people actually expected it to happen.  A lot of our future is dependant upon what investment we have going foward. Dragan and Kat may want out. Who comes in then? 

[badgerx16]

From a Millwall fans forum ;

"However, looking at it from our point of view, it means that if we had finished with 3 points less, we would now be in the final. So in effect the punishment is also rewarding mediocrity over success."

 

"In all seriousness mate, the more you consider the situation, the more you realise that actually us playing Boro for the last final spot is the only fair thing to do.
My reasoning is as follows:
Both us and Boro LOST in the semis. Therefore it cannot be that Boro have shown any betterment of us in the play offs. And as we finished above them in the league they didn't show any betterment of us there either. Therefore it cannot be just and right that Boro get to the final ahead of us."

Edited 6 hours ago by badgerx16

[woodsaint1]

The most pathetic of all this is Boro claiming that justice has prevailed.

They couldn't beat us over 210+ minutes. It wasn't a one off game. Sky Sports claiming they've been 'reinstated' - they were never in the final to be reinstated.

Feel for Hull, who are seriously disadvantaged having to change preparations for a new team now. If they lose on Saturday there would surely be grounds for a legal complaint given how this has been handled by the EFL

[Divergent]

Just out of curiosity- what does anyone think might happen next season if a club was stupid enough to be found guilty of spying within the 72 hours on 3 separate occasions during the normal season?
Points deduction and what other sanction?

What punishment would equal ours or would the fact that the reward for cheating would be so much less, as a play off leg is not involved, result in no other sanction at all?

Just trying to see what the EFL might think is equitable treatment  

 

 

 

 

[Whitey Grandad]

55 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

I'd suggest Taylor will be looking over his shoulder for a very long time. 

If i were him I wouldn't buy any green bananas. 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, SNSUN said:

It's a very real concern. It's a worst case scenario but nonetheless a real concern. Getting expelled from the final was also a worst case scenario but not many people actually expected it to happen.  A lot of our future is dependant upon what investment we have going foward. Dragan and Kat may want out. Who comes in then? 

None of the players are going to want to stay. This is worst nightmare territory. I'm astounded the club haven't released a statement tonight. Who is advising them ?

[Tom57]

This is going to be a very important summer. It could be the difference between us calming everyone down, settling any legal disputes we have as far as we can and having a group of players and new management who are focussed on the future rather than the past, or it could be us up to our eyeballs in lawsuits with a weak management team who are presiding over a mutinous squad, very few of whom actually want to be playing for us or are actually suing us themselves.

[CanadaSaint]

Given the damage that will result from this, and we're just starting to imagine it, I don't think the club has any choice but to exhaust all avenues of appeal, including the courts. This could go on for quite a while, but what is there to lose?

[Patrick Bateman]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

None of the players are going to want to stay. This is worst nightmare territory. I'm astounded the club haven't released a statement tonight. Who is advising them ?

The silence mirrors what we've seen under this leadership, contempt for the fanbase that pay a small fortune to travel around the country to support the team.

"Thank you for your support, you're amazing, you are always vocal, we need your volume" etc.

But hey, complete silence tonight. Disgraceful. 

[Saint86]

4 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

From a Millwall fans forum ;

"However, looking at it from our point of view, it means that if we had finished with 3 points less, we would now be in the final. So in effect the punishment is also rewarding mediocrity over success."

 

"In all seriousness mate, the more you consider the situation, the more you realise that actually us playing Boro for the last final spot is the only fair thing to do.
My reasoning is as follows:
Both us and Boro LOST in the semis. Therefore it cannot be that Boro have shown any betterment of us in the play offs. And as we finished above them in the league they didn't show any betterment of us there either. Therefore it cannot be just and right that Boro get to the final ahead of us."

I agree with the Millwall fan here. Boro have no leg to stand on re deserving that slot in the final on sporting merit. 

[saintant]

33 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

Yeah not sure I go along with the notion that we managed to spy on Arsenal and City. 
 

Which begs the question, why spy in the first place if we are capable of those performances. 

That's a great point. So we spied against Oxford and produced an absolute shit show. We didn't spy against Arsenal and played superbly. You couldn't make this shit up.

[Saint_clark]

4 minutes ago, CanadaSaint said:

Given the damage that will result from this, and we're just starting to imagine it, I don't think the club has any choice but to exhaust all avenues of appeal, including the courts. This could go on for quite a while, but what is there to lose?

I've been confused about why we aren't allowed to go to CAS about this, don't they exist for purely this kind of oversight?

[trousers]

49 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

TBF a postponement at this point feels inevitable, Hull will argue their prep has been damaged too. and Boro won't have enough time to sort tickets.

I suspect Hull will be much happier to be playing Middlesbrough than us, despite the short notice, given how much better we are (on current form).

[Willo of Whiteley]

“Deny everything Baldrick”

”Are you appealing your punishment?”

”No”

[saintant]

36 minutes ago, CanadaSaint said:

I'm as angry and embarrassed as most about the club's mindless stupidity, but I don't see some of today's revelations about other instances of our "spying" making it worse unless the new instances also infringed to 72-hour rule, and I've seen no evidence of that. Those allegations are now coming out months after the fact. Seriously?

We've screwed up royally and need to admit it, but self-flagellation when the spying was legal is ridiculous. It's just doing what the sensationalist journos have done in their quest to make this issue even bigger than it already is. It seems like the committee bought into that as well.

So you believe the club wouldn't have used this in their defence if the spying at Oxford and Ipswich was outside the 72 hour limit? They admitted the charges ergo it must have happened inside the 72 hour limit.

[SaintsBarry74]

17 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Off to bed now but just popping into say:

Tonda 

Spors 

Parsons 

Analyst team 

All must go.

Excellent chorus, could make a song out of that.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

Depression. I'm at the point of wondering whether I even want to support this club under Sports Republic after the shit we've been put through. 

I had a moment of thinking that I had my local team to still support.  @Gloucester Saint was having a similar path, I think, and probably others. But, for me, it was just a moment. That might change again, depending on what else comes out 🙂 

1 hour ago, Mr X said:

So is it literally fine to spy as long as it's not within 72 hours of the game? Or would we be getting the same punishment regardless? 

Fine up until 72 hours for EFL. Beyond that, clubs are considered to be fine to work on specific game tactics. Whether it's behind walls or on a playing field. Formerly bad form, but now could be 3 points per game/ forfeiting the game. Or, if in a play off, lose it automatically. Had that been in the rulebook, perhaps people would have adhered more to the fair play aspect. 

1 hour ago, Dr Who? said:

I think we chose to defend ourselves… that can be the only explanation 😂 

Enter Scott Marshall QC! 🙂 

 

 

55 minutes ago, sockeye said:

Southampton players are exploring their options regarding legal action against the club if the English Football League’s verdict to expel them from the Championship play-off final is upheld.

A source close to the dressing room, speaking anonymously as they were not authorised to do so, confirmed that Tonda Eckert’s squad had largely been kept away from the affair and only had the basic details communicated to them by the club.

The players were furious at the EFL verdict, having only found out at the same time as everyone else, with members of the squad who had taken 40 per cent pay cuts after suffering relegation from the top flight year were due to have that reinstated in the event of promotion to the Premier League.

They are due to meet with the club on Wednesday, and sources with knowledge of the players’ situation confirmed to The Athletic that they have contacted the Professional Footballers’ Association for advice.

If not exploring legal options, then certainly having a word with their agent. A possible 40% pay rise plus loads of bonuses and career opportunities gone. And the guy who may well be responsible (Tonda) is standing there trying to motivate you ahead of another season of it.

 

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, Convict Colony said:

Really !!! i read that as parsons being dealt a shit sandwich and taking ownership of it to control the fall out as best as he could, remember this was before the game was played.

Many bad guys in this but i'm not think parsons is one.

He’s not bad per se, but fucking rank incompetent for the supposed leadership role he was supposed to occupy. At those levels, the job is always to protect the organisation first and foremost.

I used past tense because he’s a goner. 

[saintant]

35 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

"ignorance of the law is no excuse" is a pretty basic one. One that no one seems to have told Parsons or anyone else, unfortunately. 

I find it impossible to believe Parsons doesn't know this considering the top positions he's managed to con people into giving him.

[Bobsmith]

This club are fucked if we don’t win the appeal or we don’t get bought by the Saudis. The club need to throw the kitchen sink at that and the courts otherwise they are done 

[Jack]

Got to feel sorry for the players here as well, they’ve put in a hell of a shift this year and they’ve clearly been lied to. In all the interviews they’ve been completely professional and said it’s just noise, focus on the next game etc, that’s what’s been fed to them by Saints. I bet they feel completely betrayed and all their hard graft is for nothing. You couldn’t blame them for all wanting out after this. 
 

SR, Spors, Tonda, all of them need to go and it’s another rebuild from the ground up for the poor fans. 

[trousers]

51 minutes ago, LGTL said:

Our lot are a disgrace, but we’ve been royally done over by a far more competent, experienced and savvy board. 

Indeed... At least Cortese would've given Gibson a run for his money! (FFS Trousers... Don't open that floodgate you tart!)

[Bobsmith]

3 minutes ago, trousers said:

Indeed... At least Cortese would've given Gibson a run for his money! (FFS Trousers... Don't open that floodgate you tart!)

The days when we had a competent and ruthless chairman. Personally think our priority should be getting the final delayed so we can litigate this properly 

Edited 5 hours ago by Bobsmith

[Patrick Bateman]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

Indeed... At least Cortese would've given Gibson a run for his money! (FFS Trousers... Don't open that floodgate you tart!)

Bloody hell ... he'd have been awful ... where are my spoons? Where is my gold toilet? Or whatever. Why has this club been so weird for so long? I mean, we're solvent, good, but we've had some weird and annoying shit. 

[SaintsBarry74]

Why can't we have nice things? 

[Saint NL]

Just Promote Hull and be done with it, forget this appeal nonsense.

Then get cracking on the important job of chucking the guilty parties into the sea.

[Colinjb]

Considering the lows we have endured, administration, almost record breaking incompetence, those 9-0's, this feels worse.

The above were due, simply to ineptitude.

This is willful betrayal of sporting principle. Moral bankruptcy and absolute lunacy in the face of it.

Honestly, it's a sickening feeling. Didn't think it would be this visceral.

Signing off for the night. This is the darkest day as a supporter of the club. Instinctively, my reaction is to disown. I know I won't, my colours are set. But, this is just bleak, disgusting and putrid.