Saints Expelled from Playoffs

[Tom & Gerry]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

It is feasible, if not overly plausible, that Tonda was ignorant of the rules and those above him didn't know (or care) how he was gathering data, so had no reason to question him on it. As I say, as unlikely as that sounds, we can't rule it out 100%, can we...? #benefitofthedoubt

 

2 hours ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Because we have no one in the position of regulation compliance currently?

Don't we have an English Assistant Manager and other analysts? The players say they can talk to Tonda if something isn't working, surely someone should have had a word in his ear  not necessarily from above?

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, TwoPints said:

Boro selling tickets for the final from 1pm today:

 

https://www.mfc.co.uk/news/2026/may/20/ticket-details-for-sky-bet-championship-play-off-final/

 

I'd say they wouldn't be doing this if they knew they wouldn't be there, but we were still selling our tickets this time yesterday.

I don't really want it overturned though. The people at this club need to suck it up, own it, and give us poor fans some compensation for all of this.

[Fabrice29]

Being kicked out of a cup competition for trying to gain an advantage by breaking clearly defined rules isn’t the misjustice people seem to be convincing themselves it is really. And I’d really like it personally if we didn’t have to resort to Lambert and now MLT being sent out to bat for us but here we are. Embarrassing/cringe behaviour as I called last week. 

[Mattio]

2 minutes ago, TwoPints said:

Boro selling tickets for the final from 1pm today:

 

https://www.mfc.co.uk/news/2026/may/20/ticket-details-for-sky-bet-championship-play-off-final/

 

You'd have thought they'd have subsidised their official coach travel seeing as they have 3 days to arrange another way to get there.

[Saint Pete]

3 minutes ago, Window Cleaner said:

We have no legal argument whatsoever 

We broke the rules,got caught,admitted other cases and got punished.

So we have no right to a fair appeal on what a proportionate punishment should be? 

[Patrick Bateman]

Just now, Mattio said:

You'd have thought they'd have subsidised their official coach travel seeing as they have 3 days to arrange another way to get there.

Their booking fee is cheaper too 😂

[hypochondriac]

I'm thinking back to all those recent Tuesday games where I didn't really fancy going to every game but dragged myself along because I thought the support was important and because we were so close to cementing ourselves in the playoffs. Wish I had stayed home and spent time with my family instead.

[Midfield_General]

10 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

That is a fair angle to take, for sure, looking at other sanctions it doesn't seem proportionate. The 'play offs' being seen as a cup competition, rather than a league extension, has muddied it all and confused the EFL/commission I think. But also, look at it this way - we know of 3, and those 3 games weren't in our favour.

What if we did this against Wrexham beforehand and ditto Charlton, and got our wins on the back of that? It brings the long winning runs into question, it simply has to. You can't say you've done it 3 times, but only use the examples where it hasn't benefited us as a defence. 

At this point I think it's clear we've done this across multiple games which have swung in our favour. Who I currently feel sorry for more in all of this are the fans of Wrexham, Millwall, Derby and Hull. Seemingly none of those have got a fair shot if the severity of what we've done, and the relentlessness of it, comes to light.

On the outset it seems a small misdemeanour, but you have to feel there is a lot more to it. The EFL have handled it terribly though.

Quite.

There is a world of difference between 'We only did it three times' and 'Only three clubs have come forward with hard, incontrovertible evidence that we did it to them'.

There is not a chance that we spied on Oxford in January and then didn't do it again until Ipswich in April. 

It seems pretty obvious at this point that it was a systematic, cultural thing and everyone involved thought it was terribly clever and a jolly good laugh (hence the story about swapping internal emails joking about how they were doing it).

The only reason that only those three games are being focused on are because those are the games where they got caught red-handed. It seems very likely that we were doing it the rest of the time as well, it's just that those clubs didn't catch us. 

[RedArmy]

Just now, Mattio said:

You'd have thought they'd have subsidised their official coach travel seeing as they have 3 days to arrange another way to get there.

It’s twice the price of ours. I know fuel is expensive but fucking hell! 

[manji]

I as gutted as anyone the one thing I find really disturbing is some Saints fans are already using the fiasco to further their agenda. Whether it be anti Tonda, anti sports republic or even against the way football is going the analytical side.

It seems to be a thing these days people can't see the big picture. We are in enough shit as it is. Imagine us going into next season with no directors in fact no owners possibly no manager and it would appear losing more players than if we hadn't made it to the play-off final. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, Pengi said:

The Athletic has more details.https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/7293082/2026/05/20/southampton-middlesbrough-spygate/?source=user_shared_article

"Club sources told The Athletic that they felt the hearing should have taken place after the final, rather than being expedited by the EFL. They thought there were too many rules that had no defined sanctions, which left too much open to interpretation, and if the rules had been clearer, the incident would have been resolved more speedily."

Like a lot of us, they looked at the punishment as being Leeds based. Not that the panel could use any number of sanctions it had left open.

Obviously, if Tonda is banned, he's toast. But things internally will come to a head before then.

[skintsaint]

4 minutes ago, TwoPints said:

Boro selling tickets for the final from 1pm today:

 

https://www.mfc.co.uk/news/2026/may/20/ticket-details-for-sky-bet-championship-play-off-final/

with no mention of the possibility of it not happening

Just like we did.

[hypochondriac]

Just now, manji said:

I as gutted as anyone the one thing I find really disturbing is some Saints fans are already using the fiasco to further their agenda. Whether it be anti Tonda, anti sports republic or even against the way football is going the analytical side.

It seems to be a thing these days people can't see the big picture. We are in enough shit as it is. Imagine us going into next season with no directors in fact no owners possibly no manager and it would appear losing more players than if we hadn't made it to the play-off final. 

Give it a rest. Not really the time.

[S-Clarke]

Just now, manji said:

I as gutted as anyone the one thing I find really disturbing is some Saints fans are already using the fiasco to further their agenda. Whether it be anti Tonda, anti sports republic or even against the way football is going the analytical side.

It seems to be a thing these days people can't see the big picture. We are in enough shit as it is. Imagine us going into next season with no directors in fact no owners possibly no manager and it would appear losing more players than if we hadn't made it to the play-off final. 

No one is using this to fuel any agenda Manji. Give it up, seriously. You're better than this.

I can see the big picture and the big picture is that Sport Republic have been the worst thing to have ever happened to this football club.

[Midfield_General]

6 minutes ago, Football Special said:

Is there any way we can link this all back to Rasmus? 

BREAKING: "Eric Black admits 'it was me'"

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, manji said:

I as gutted as anyone the one thing I find really disturbing is some Saints fans are already using the fiasco to further their agenda. Whether it be anti Tonda, anti sports republic or even against the way football is going the analytical side.

It seems to be a thing these days people can't see the big picture. We are in enough shit as it is. Imagine us going into next season with no directors in fact no owners possibly no manager and it would appear losing more players than if we hadn't made it to the play-off final. 

This is far far removed from the "greatest era in our history" that Sports Republic are going to bring!

 

[Window Cleaner]

1 minute ago, Tom & Gerry said:

 

Don't we have an English Assistant Manager and other analysts? The players say they can talk to Tonda if something isn't working, surely someone should have had a word in his ear  not necessarily from above?

Anyway, knowing the rules isn't an option. It's like the highway code, not knowing or understanding it isn't an excuse for driving too fast or running over people on Zebra crossings.

Everybody should know the laws or rules under which they operate.

[Saint_clark]

2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

This is far far removed from the "greatest era in our history" that Sports Republic are going to bring!

 

We're never gonna forget it that's for sure.

[Fabrice29]

4 minutes ago, manji said:

I as gutted as anyone the one thing I find really disturbing is some Saints fans are already using the fiasco to further their agenda. Whether it be anti Tonda, anti sports republic or even against the way football is going the analytical side.

It seems to be a thing these days people can't see the big picture. We are in enough shit as it is. Imagine us going into next season with no directors in fact no owners possibly no manager and it would appear losing more players than if we hadn't made it to the play-off final. 

The club could really do with a clean break from almost all of these tbh. 

[EBS1980]

20 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

That is a fair angle to take, for sure, looking at other sanctions it doesn't seem proportionate. The 'play offs' being seen as a cup competition, rather than a league extension, has muddied it all and confused the EFL/commission I think. But also, look at it this way - we know of 3, and those 3 games weren't in our favour.

What if we did this against Wrexham beforehand and ditto Charlton, and got our wins on the back of that? It brings the long winning runs into question, it simply has to. You can't say you've done it 3 times, but only use the examples where it hasn't benefited us as a defence. 

At this point I think it's clear we've done this across multiple games which have swung in our favour. Who I currently feel sorry for more in all of this are the fans of Wrexham, Millwall, Derby and Hull. Seemingly none of those have got a fair shot if the severity of what we've done, and the relentlessness of it, comes to light.

On the outset it seems a small misdemeanour, but you have to feel there is a lot more to it. The EFL have handled it terribly though.

But I go back to the fans in all of this - we're the ones being punished as part of all this, the full force of this should be felt by the individuals who have done it. We've done nothing, neither have Hull or Millwall or Wrexham or Derby. We're all being punished.

I agree but there is obviously only evidence we did it 3 times so even we wouldn’t be so stupid to admit we have been doing it all the time under Tonder this season. So we can only considered on the basis it was 3 games

[Midfield_General]

3 minutes ago, manji said:

I as gutted as anyone the one thing I find really disturbing is some Saints fans are already using the fiasco to further their agenda. Whether it be anti Tonda, anti sports republic or even against the way football is going the analytical side.

It seems to be a thing these days people can't see the big picture. We are in enough shit as it is. Imagine us going into next season with no directors in fact no owners possibly no manager and it would appear losing more players than if we hadn't made it to the play-off final. 

Go on then - what's the Big Picture that we should all be seeing? 

Is it related to Chem trails? 5G masts? 

Is Phil Parsons turning our frogs gay? 

[Bobsmith]

3 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

"Club sources told The Athletic that they felt the hearing should have taken place after the final, rather than being expedited by the EFL. They thought there were too many rules that had no defined sanctions, which left too much open to interpretation, and if the rules had been clearer, the incident would have been resolved more speedily."

Like a lot of us, they looked at the punishment as being Leeds based. Not that the panel could use any number of sanctions it had left open.

Obviously, if Tonda is banned, he's toast. But things internally will come to a head before then.

Then why were they so moronic as to allow this to happen. They should have fought this legally to prevent the case being heard until after the final. Again our leadership and legal team must be so naive. How are we so incompetent. 

[Dr Who?]

I feel sorry for Hull as they are just playing football, got in by fair game (as far as we know) and they do not know who they will be losing to! 

[benjii]

11 minutes ago, Saint Pete said:

Regarding the appeal, would we have any legal argument to go to court to get some kind of injunction to stop the game being played on Saturday as we are not being given any time to prepare our appeal? Decision on Tuesday and appeal on Wednesday feels unusual and unfair no matter what you think about what we have done. 

In theory, I don't see why not, but there is a large risk. You can be forced to give an undertaking that you will compensate the enjoined party if it turns out the injunction was wrongly granted.

So let's say we get the final called off, and it never gets played because time runs out, but it turns out the injunction was not justified, we would be on the hook to the EFL for a lot of money. So it would be high risk and also likely make the club very hated!

[trousers]

1 hour ago, Stevejb said:

Worse and worse.What next?

All sponsors pull out, the club ends up in administration, then liquidation, and a phoenix club starts up again in the 7th tier?

[Bobsmith]

1 minute ago, benjii said:

In theory, I don't see why not, but there is a large risk. You can be forced to give an undertaking that you will compensate the enjoined party if it turns out the injunction was wrongly granted.

So let's say we get the final called off, and it never gets played because time runs out, but it turns out the injunction was not justified, we would be on the hook to the EFL for a lot of money. So it would be high risk and also likely make the club very hated!

I think we need to go scorched earth here. Being nice boys has got us nowhere and the board need to show some backbone and competence to earn back any goodwill 

[Dr Who?]

Must be coffee break time, it’s gone very quiet in here, from everyone at work! 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

It is feasible, if not overly plausible, that Tonda was ignorant of the rules and those above him didn't know (or care) how he was gathering data, so had no reason to question him on it. As I say, as unlikely as that sounds, we can't rule it out 100%, can we...? #benefitofthedoubt

He was more than happy to do what he thought lots of clubs do, to get an advantage. All the silly bits of subterfuge are just part of a game he certainly felt others do all the time. It's considered to be a bad look, and lots of clubs have secured premises or do the important work behind closed doors.

The EFL are the ones with rules in place about it. The club's shock at the lack of clarity on sanctions beside the offence, tells us that they would have probably done it anyway. 

[AlexLaw76]

I reckon we will get 2 points back at the appeal.

Should get something given the club are "confident". they will be reinstated in the final. (remarkable)

[Saint Pete]

1 minute ago, Window Cleaner said:

Anyway, knowing the rules isn't an option. It's like the highway code, not knowing or understanding it isn't an excuse for driving too fast or running over people on Zebra crossings.

Everybody should know the laws or rules under which they operate.

Agree with you there. It is part of the manager's (and more senior club management's) jobs to make sure they and everyone else knows the rules. If it's gonna be our excuse that Tonda didn't know the rules because he is an inexperienced German, then we will make ourselves look even more pathetic and incompetent than we have so far. 

[manji]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I'm thinking back to all those recent Tuesday games where I didn't really fancy going to every game but dragged myself along because I thought the support was important and because we were so close to cementing ourselves in the playoffs. Wish I had stayed home and spent time with my family instead.

It's always been that way can't you remember the midweek FA Cup match against Tranmere That was on telly. I rushed home from work got changed pegged it down the ground only to see us throw away three goal advantage and loose 4-3 or going all the way up to Everton when it was a really unpleasant ground to visit and I think we lost seven nil. 
Its for a long time been a theme to take the piss out of Liverpool fans for milking their victim hood nowadays everyone's a victim.

 

[64saint]

Just now, Window Cleaner said:

Anyway, knowing the rules isn't an option. It's like the highway code, not knowing or understanding it isn't an excuse for driving too fast or running over people on Zebra crossings.

Everybody should know the laws or rules under which they operate.

Oh for goodness sake,  stop applying logic and sensible arguments to this complete shit show. It's completely out of place.😉.   

[Dr Who?]

If we are popped back into the final surely we are suspended not expelled? 

[Saint_clark]

[trousers]

A few of my Liverpool supporting chums have now started piping up in PMs.... "What's it like to support a club that cheats?"... Hmm... Where to start my replies.... #tappingup

[LegalEagle]

59 minutes ago, saintant said:

Dumb, dumber, more dumber and fucking dumbest of the lot.

Outstanding. Take a bow that man. Just pissed myself laughing. That will keep me going all day.

[scumbag]

In the absence of any new evidence, it seems the only thing we'll be arguing is proportionality.  But the new panel will be in the exact same position as the last one on that - just making it up.  That's probably our only hope really, some maverick crackpots up for some drama.

[Dr Who?]

Just now, Saint_clark said:

That’s brilliant 😂 are we in the arena? 

[Midfield_General]

I wonder at what stage everyone internally at the club realises they/ we're fucked and the blame game starts as they all start turning on each other in an attempt to save their own skins 

I'm going for tomorrow morning 

Dragan vs. Exec (Parsons) vs. Management team (Tonda and team) vs. Head of Analytics (whoever the fuck) vs. wee Will Salt the lone wolf in a blame game Battle Royale

Who will survive?  

Edited 51 minutes ago by Midfield_General

[Dr Who?]

2 minutes ago, scumbag said:

In the absence of any new evidence, it seems the only thing we'll be arguing is proportionality.  But the new panel will be in the exact same position as the last one on that - just making it up.  That's probably our only hope really, some maverick crackpots up for some drama.

Again not a great ‘loop’hole 😂 

Edited 53 minutes ago by Dr Who?

[Osvaldorama]

What if I say I want to use my ticket for the Hull v Boro game?

 

How does that work legally ? 
 

Surely boro can’t resell Wembley tickets if we have them all? 😂

[Saint_clark]

2 minutes ago, Dr Who? said:

That’s brilliant 😂 are we in the arena? 

I can only assume Middlesbrough are playing Hull first half and we're playing second half 😂

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, manji said:

It's always been that way can't you remember the midweek FA Cup match against Tranmere That was on telly. I rushed home from work got changed pegged it down the ground only to see us throw away three goal advantage and loose 4-3 or going all the way up to Everton when it was a really unpleasant ground to visit and I think we lost seven nil. 
Its for a long time been a theme to take the piss out of Liverpool fans for milking their victim hood nowadays everyone's a victim.

 

Not remotely comparable if you lose on the pitch.

[Mattio]

3 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

So 45 mins per team vs Hull?

[Fabrice29]

Btw watching that Lambert interview on talksport he has 100% been sent out by the club with lines to say. 

[Saint_clark]

Just now, Fabrice29 said:

Btw watching that Lambert interview on talksport he has 100% been sent out by the club with lines to say. 

Christ, you're more of a crackpot conspiracy theorist than he is.

[sadoldgit]

1 minute ago, scumbag said:

In the absence of any new evidence, it seems the only thing we'll be arguing is proportionality.  But the new panel will be in the exact same position as the last one on that - just making it up.  That's probably our only hope really, some maverick crackpots up for some drama.

Exactly. The problem the EFL now have that this sanction is a precedent, if upheld. All wrong doing will use this as an example of not acting in good faith and the expectation will be that any clubs breaking rules could be subject to “nuclear” sanctions.

[Soton7]

21 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Southampton's appeal against the Spygate sanctions will be heard by one senior judge this afternoon, with a verdict expected to be delivered in the evening #saintsfc

@TheAthleticFC

Who is the senior judge? Nathan fucking Jones?

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Btw watching that Lambert interview on talksport he has 100% been sent out by the club with lines to say. 

''That's one hell of a stretch to come to that conclusion''

[skintsaint]

3 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

I wonder at what stage everyone internally at the club realises they/ we're fucked and the blame game starts as they all start turning on each other in an attempt to save their own skins 

I'm going for tomorrow morning