Saints Expelled from Playoffs

[skintsaint]

2 minutes ago, Dr Who? said:

Do they take individual requests or is it more the collective of the club and where the majority of fans are residents? 

You would assume the majority of their fans live around there 😅

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, 23rdSaint said:

Have the EFL rushed this on purpose, knowing we'd win the appeal? They'd then be able to come out against us strongly for putting the fixture – and wider game – into disrepute. 

No chance. We are out and trying to recoup what we can. At best, will be a few points.

 

[stfrancisofbenali]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

@stfrancisofbenali

@MB

These guys knew.....

What else do you know? 

Clear evidence that Salt challenged the strategy to ‘spy’ and was bullied into doing so by his superiors. Spors and Eckert double team. 

[iansums]

2 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Danny Murphy and Rickie Lambert on talksport says expulsion shouldn't be the punishment, both saying the impact of any spying would be minimal. 

Not sure if mentioned on here but David Bernstein, former head of FA said the same.

[SaintsLoyal]

"Where's Will Salt today to travel to on coach/plane, oh he will be joining us today at the hotel" what again ??

 

 

[Livewire]

Kate Gallafent KC is excellent. She is top of the tree. But not even she can make diamonds out of the garbage that we have handed her. Once it became clear that we did this systematically (and no one seriously believes we never did it between December and April), our goose was cooked. Of course, Middlesbrough getting a Wembley berth as a result is a farce - I hope Hull stuff them. 

[Willo of Whiteley]

9 minutes ago, St Louis said:

EFL Update: 

 

This does make a mockery of the whole process doesn’t it 😂🤣

No one, whether it be us for what we did, Boro for their behaviour, EFL for their lack of decision making and communication.

Can you imagine it’s overturned and we play the final? Imagine the lawsuit Middlesbrough will begin 😂

[beatlesaint]

8 minutes ago, St Louis said:

Saturday's Sky Bet Championship Play-Off Final between Hull City and Middlesbrough will kick-off at 15:30.

Should the outcome of the ongoing appeal process result in the Final being contested by Hull City and Southampton, the kick-off time for the fixture will remain at 16:30.

The EFL are covering all bases here aren’t they?

I maintain they should have shut the fuck up about reinstating Boro until AFTER Saints appeal given nobody can do anything until after that appeal is lost, or won (some hopes!)

[Saint_clark]

1 minute ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

This does make a mockery of the whole process doesn’t it 😂🤣

No one, whether it be us for what we did, Boro for their behaviour, EFL for their lack of decision making and communication.

Can you imagine it’s overturned and we play the final? Imagine the lawsuit Middlesbrough will begin 😂

It'll certainly make the 40th playoff match a memorable one.

[Willo of Whiteley]

Ok I’ve figured out the timeline guys:

- Thursday night reinstated

- Friday morning Middlesbrough and media meltdown

- Friday morning Tonda ban appeal (pending two weeks)

- Go to Wembley

- Win at Wembley

- Promoted to the Premier League

- Sack Tonda and Johannes straight after the game

- Lawsuits begin

- Go to the Winchester, have a nice cold pint, and wait for all of this to blow over

[Pilchards]

Let’s say they let us back in on appeal.

Im going to feel empty sitting in my Wembley seat on Saturday as I feel we cheated.

Certainly won’t bring myself to cheer on Tonda.

With us fans screwed up, I bet the players are going mental themselves. Hardly great preparation either way.

 

[S-Clarke]

What the fuck at that EFL statement? Seriously? What a mess they've made of this.

Poor Hull City. Fuck me.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

 B`

2 hours ago, BotleySaint said:

Exactly. Most of the football supporting mates ive spoken to feel Boro shouldn't get a free pass. Hull should simply be promoted.

But the EFL just want the game to go ahead for the revenue.

The reaction I've had this morning has been one of surprise and shock at us being booted out. Then back to their concerns about their own clubs and their issues. I'll be getting more annoyed by the media going on about it. Opposings fans on match days will obviously milk it. But that's expected, and we'd do that. Hopefully it will be lots of "You're only winning, 'cause you cheat!"

2 hours ago, LegalEagle said:

Negligence giving rise to a breach. I think the club have been negligent here.

Lots of internal processes and contracts will be getting a look at. If we don't actually have someone to do that, a job as should be their first step. However, despite the impact, football is a bit warped. For example, if they thought Tonda was the guy to promote us next season, they may be reluctant to part company with him. Likewise Spors.

2 hours ago, ChristopheVAFC said:

Hello everyone, in the wake of the EFL’s harsh decision, I must admit I didn’t sleep well and have been thinking a lot about this whole situation...

I know the SR board will try to defend themselves today during the appeal, but I have a lot of questions about the benefits and risks of this sort of practice...

Ultimately, even though the EFL’s decision isn’t final, the club has lost a great deal in just a few hours because of this.

- You, the supporters, are angry and disappointed

- This story is making headlines all over the world

- The players, who weren’t aware of it, are very angry

- The club will almost certainly lose a lot of money

I think the players could easily have won both matches against Boro fairly and squarely; on the pitch, we had the quality – did we not have faith in our players?

Not so much lack of faith in our players. But a desire to skirt around rules to get the most advantage. Seemingly based on it being allowed elsewhere, and it being an open secret in the analysts world. If anything, we've shown lack of faith in our analysts. We couldn't trust the SR data we'd captured. We needed people on the training grounds as well.

Aside:Loads of great posts on the VA page, I'm going to get around to responding to. Thanks for those.

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

1) Being excluded frm a match we could have lost is not "one of the harshest penalties ever".......

Major Match-Fixing & Corruption

• Juventus (2006): Following the Calciopoli match-fixing scandal, Juventus were stripped of two Serie A titles, relegated to Serie B, and initially hit with a massive 30-point deduction (later reduced to 9 points).
• AC Milan, Lazio, Fiorentina (2006): Also implicated in Calciopoli, these clubs avoided relegation but began the following Serie A season with severe point deductions (e.g., Milan with -8 points, Fiorentina with -15).
• Marseille (1993): Stripped of their 1992-93 French league title and relegated to Ligue 2 after their president was involved in a domestic match-fixing and bribery scandal. [1, 2, 3]

 

...

2 ) I can cope with this situation......

Thanks for that. I was thinking about all the Italian corruption scandals, and their impacts. Good to s ee the summary.

2 hours ago, Kenilworthy1959 said:

While I don't condone the spying I still don't really understand what influence it had on how we played. What I saw from January onwards was just good players playing really well. The only thing I can think of is that in some games we took the unusual choice of leaving two players up when defending corners.

A simple one would be that we got to see how they would defend against our set pieces. Then on the day, we do something different and oh look, THB gets another one. Sure, he has to do the work. But, if we know what to expect, then that gives us an edge. It's rubbish that it casts a shadow over goals like that, and the players will feel that too.

2 hours ago, Stripey McStripe Shirt said:

How many analysts work at the club?

They hot desk between shifts at garden centres and posting FM videos. 🙂 

SR's analysis is now another thing that looks shoddy. Noone with experience 

1 hour ago, Hopper said:

I think it speaks volumes that we’ve not come out and sacked Tonda already. I get that we’re appealing but are we seriously saying that we as a club are happy for him to continue even if we win on appeal.

it doesn’t give me a lot of hope moving forward. SR Need to go and we need to rebuild. As a club we are in tatters.

i don’t care how long it takes or how tough it is. We’ve been at rock bottom before and we came back stronger. We need an ownership group and a manager we can get behind. It’s never felt right since SR came in.

The fact is we’re a failed moneyball experiment and the experiment needs to end.

This will be part of the internal discussions.

On one side Spors brought him in and we've done well (shadow over some of it). We're assuming that Tonda thought it was acceptable practice and/or widespread. Tonda may not have been told a trying to the contrary. He may even have told others, and they okayed it.

And then there's the financial and reputational cost. The potential breakdown in internal relationships both backroom, and with the squad and club staff.

[Mattio]

1 minute ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Ok I’ve figured out the timeline guys:

- Thursday night reinstated

- Friday morning Middlesbrough and media meltdown

- Friday morning Tonda ban appeal (pending two weeks)

- Go to Wembley

- Win at Wembley

- Promoted to the Premier League

- Sack Tonda and Johannes straight after the game

- Lawsuits begin

- Go to the Winchester, have a nice cold pint, and wait for all of this to blow over

Sounds good but I'm not going all the way to Winchester for a pint!

[Saint_clark]

3 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Ok I’ve figured out the timeline guys:

- Thursday night reinstated

- Friday morning Middlesbrough and media meltdown

- Friday morning Tonda ban appeal (pending two weeks)

- Go to Wembley

- Win at Wembley

- Promoted to the Premier League

- Sack Tonda and Johannes straight after the game

- Lawsuits begin

- Go to the Winchester, have a nice cold pint, and wait for all of this to blow over

Do we have to go to Winchester? I'd rather drink on Poole harbour.

Edit; you bastard @Mattio beat me to it.

Edited 1 hour ago by Saint_clark

[Osvaldorama]

2 minutes ago, Pilchards said:

Let’s say they let us back in on appeal.

Im going to feel empty sitting in my Wembley seat on Saturday as I feel we cheated.

Certainly won’t bring myself to cheer on Tonda.

With us fans screwed up, I bet the players are going mental themselves. Hardly great preparation either way.

 

If we get our day out I honestly don’t care

 

would be funny tbh. Lets hope for a minor stupid technicality that gets us there 

[Convict Colony]

13 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

Bizarre statement. 

yeah why not wait until appeal done later

[Holmes_and_Watson]

2 hours ago, BotleySaint said:

You'd have thought the club would be working overnight on a statement to release first thing today and at least update the club website.

Even take the site down and put up a holding statement for now.

We only give statements to opponent chairpersons. 🙂

[EBS1980]

Fielding an ineligible player is far worse than watching training sessions imo. That player can directly affect that game. As the results showed watching training doesn’t equal a win on the pitch.

for both to incur kicking out a competition is unfair imo 

 

[BotleySaint]

Honestly WTF from the EFL today. Are they serious? 

Edited 1 hour ago by BotleySaint

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

8 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Danny Murphy and Rickie Lambert on talksport says expulsion shouldn't be the punishment, both saying the impact of any spying would be minimal. 

And would Ipswich really do secret training routines at a club close to and probably closely associated with Southampton FC. The whole thing is a stitch up. Where I worked in the 90's there were signs on some of the office walls: "What's said in here, stays in here." You want secret training. Do it in a hall or where you can guarantee no-one is watching.

I'm like the rest of the continent. Watching other clubs training is not cheating. OK, it broke the rules, but where else do you find rules where the punishment isn't stated? And is there a Middlesbrough representative on the EFL board and not a Southampton representative?

The impact would have been minimal because there's so much other publicly available stuff on other teams' tactics and set ups. FWIW, I'm guessing the practice was widespread and hopefully there are people who can prove this...and quickly.

[Mr X]

1 minute ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

We only give statements to opponent chairpersons. 🙂

We are waiting to copy another clubs statement... Leeds maybe! 🤦‍♂️😂

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

And would Ipswich really do secret training routines at a club close to and probably closely associated with Southampton FC. The whole thing is a stitch up. Where I worked in the 90's there were signs on some of the office walls: "What's said in here, stays in here." You want secret training. Do it in a hall or where you can guarantee no-one is watching.

I'm like the rest of the continent. Watching other clubs training is not cheating. OK, it broke the rules, but where else do you find rules where the punishment isn't stated? And is there a Middlesbrough representative on the EFL board and not a Southampton representative?

The impact would have been minimal because there's so much other publicly available stuff on other teams' tactics and set ups. FWIW, I'm guessing the practice was widespread and hopefully there are people who can prove this...and quickly.

is it rife on the continent? Or is it more like the Premier League where a rule is not really in place to govern it.

However, it is a clear rule in this league (which were in 2 years ago) and the Manager should have known (he clearly does)

[beatlesaint]

7 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

What the fuck at that EFL statement? Seriously? What a mess they've made of this.

Poor Hull City. Fuck me.

They literally only care about ensuring their showpiece game takes place on Saturday, nothing more, nothing less.

Absolute idiots…….

But not cheats, like us !

[BotleySaint]

Love Rickie. He is right.. the club is punished but they should be punishing the staff who perpetrated it. Why punish the fans, players and the whole club.

[skintsaint]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

is it rife on the continent? Or is it more like the Premier League where a rule is not really in place to govern it.

no laws against it I believe in any other major Euro league.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, skintsaint said:

no laws against it I believe in any other major Euro league.

But is is in The EFL, and that is all that matters

[Thereisonlyonemickychannon]

Let's see where this goes before we give Tonda the sack. I like him

Edited 1 hour ago by Thereisonlyonemickychannon

[S-Clarke]

5 minutes ago, EBS1980 said:

Fielding an ineligible player is far worse than watching training sessions imo. That player can directly affect that game. As the results showed watching training doesn’t equal a win on the pitch.

for both to incur kicking out a competition is unfair imo 

 

That is a fair angle to take, for sure, looking at other sanctions it doesn't seem proportionate. The 'play offs' being seen as a cup competition, rather than a league extension, has muddied it all and confused the EFL/commission I think. But also, look at it this way - we know of 3, and those 3 games weren't in our favour.

What if we did this against Wrexham beforehand and ditto Charlton, and got our wins on the back of that? It brings the long winning runs into question, it simply has to. You can't say you've done it 3 times, but only use the examples where it hasn't benefited us as a defence. 

At this point I think it's clear we've done this across multiple games which have swung in our favour. Who I currently feel sorry for more in all of this are the fans of Wrexham, Millwall, Derby and Hull. Seemingly none of those have got a fair shot if the severity of what we've done, and the relentlessness of it, comes to light.

On the outset it seems a small misdemeanour, but you have to feel there is a lot more to it. The EFL have handled it terribly though.

But I go back to the fans in all of this - we're the ones being punished as part of all this, the full force of this should be felt by the individuals who have done it. We've done nothing, neither have Hull or Millwall or Wrexham or Derby. We're all being punished.

Edited 1 hour ago by S-Clarke

[BotleySaint]

Just now, Thereisonlyonemickychannon said:

Let's see where this goes before we give To da the sack. I like him

There is zero chance Tonda Eckert will lead Saints out at Wembley on Saturday. Either cause we won't be reinstated, or because he'll have been sacked. And likely, both.

[Mr X]

If the outcome was ever that we would be thrown out the playoff final we should have Been chucked out before the first leg..... Would have saved a lot of heartache

[AlexLaw76]

Simon Jordan saying he is shocked that the sanction was the removal from a £200m game, but here we are.

Also stated appeals are usually successful if new evidence is available, which would be a surprise in less than 24 hours.

Issue here, this is a different dynamic to Leeds as that was in the league, and part of this is in a knock out competition. 

What is being discussed is that the impact of the crime is minimal and no way fits the act of the crime. But, The EFL clearly wants expel this act from being linked to the richest club game in world football. 

[Saint Pete]

12 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

The EFL look appalling in this at this point. Its very evident that all they care about is physically hosting a showcase final and associated revenue. Damn everyone else.

What are Hull FC thinking of this? It's Wednesday morning and they still don't know for certain who they will be playing on Saturday or even the kick off time. So they need to prepare their plans for 2 teams now rather than one?! Bizarre situation and I would not be happy at all if I was Hull manager. I am a little suspicious that this is all being managed in Boro's favour with their influence at the EFL. In all likelihood it will be Boro now but they are keeping Hull in limbo for as long as possible. If Hull don't end up going up, I would think they may have some kind of claim against the EFL for how this has been handled? 

[benjii]

28 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Its interesting the 2 clubs to come forward were teams that are not in our league next season, I wonder what made them give evidence?

I'm not sure if they gave the evidence. Think the whistleblower may have jad evidence for those matches?

[Saint NL]

The EFL playing a blinder here. 

The final will take place, between two clubs at a time we don't know. 

Buy your tickets now 🤣

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

1 minute ago, benjii said:

I'm not sure if they gave the evidence. Think the whistleblower may have jad evidence for those matches?

Yep, I'm guessing there are other clubs keeping very quiet at the moment and hoping this all goes away very quickly.

[benjii]

30 minutes ago, St Louis said:

Saturday's Sky Bet Championship Play-Off Final between Hull City and Middlesbrough will kick-off at 15:30.

Should the outcome of the ongoing appeal process result in the Final being contested by Hull City and Southampton, the kick-off time for the fixture will remain at 16:30.

This means we can spy on Hull until 4.30 today, but Boro can only do it until 3.30.

 

Advantage Saints.

[hypochondriac]

As more comes out that we orchestrated this multiple times, paid for disguises and hotel rooms for analysts I don't think anyone can deny that we aren't entirely culpable and in my view we should have been kicked out.

[Saint_clark]

2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Simon Jordan saying he is shocked that the sanction was the removal from a £200m game, but here we are.

Also stated appeals are usually successful if new evidence is available, which would be a surprise in less than 24 hours.

Issue here, this is a different dynamic to Leeds as that was in the league, and part of this is in a knock out competition. 

What is being discussed is that the impact of the crime is minimal and no way fits the act of the crime. But, The EFL clearly wants expel this act from being linked to the richest club game in world football. 

Feels very strange to hear Simon Jordan speaking up in our defence. 

 

I have to say, the mood in general does seem to be shifting the other way this morning. 

Something else he mentioned is that the EFL obviously think we've brought the game into such disrepute that they need to expel us...surely the way the EFL is handling this now is bringing the game into more disrepute than anything we did? 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Saint_clark said:

Feels very strange to hear Simon Jordan speaking up in our defence. 

 

I have to say, the mood in general does seem to be shifting the other way this morning. 

Something else he mentioned is that the EFL obviously think we've brought the game into such disrepute that they need to expel us...surely the way the EFL is handling this now is bringing the game into more disrepute than anything we did? 

in what way have they handled this wrong? We fucked up, not them

[Saint Pete]

Regarding the appeal, would we have any legal argument to go to court to get some kind of injunction to stop the game being played on Saturday as we are not being given any time to prepare our appeal? Decision on Tuesday and appeal on Wednesday feels unusual and unfair no matter what you think about what we have done. 

[Saint_clark]

3 minutes ago, Saint NL said:

The EFL playing a blinder here. 

The final will take place, between two clubs at a time we don't know. 

Buy your tickets now 🤣

Genuinely one of the funniest posts I've seen. 

[64saint]

Just now, Livewire said:

Kate Gallafent KC is excellent.

***She is top of the tree. ***

Not sure if that's the most appropriate phrase to use at the current time. 🙄🤣

Edited 1 hour ago by 64saint

[AlexLaw76]

sources felt the Spygate hearing should have taken place after the play-off final, rather than being expedited by the EFL. They thought there were too many rules that had no defined sanctions, which left too much open to interpretation, and if the rules had been clearer, the incident would have been resolved more speedily. They also pointed out that Southampton put in one of their worst performances in recent months against Middlesbrough in the first leg, which suggested that no sporting advantage had been gained. [via

@TheAthleticFC

 

Southampton's appeal against the Spygate sanctions will be heard by one senior judge this afternoon, with a verdict expected to be delivered in the evening #saintsfc

@TheAthleticFC

Edited 1 hour ago by AlexLaw76

[Football Special]

Is there any way we can link this all back to Rasmus? 

[Window Cleaner]

1 minute ago, Saint Pete said:

Regarding the appeal, would we have any legal argument to go to court to get some kind of injunction to stop the game being played on Saturday as we are not being given any time to prepare our appeal? Decision on Tuesday and appeal on Wednesday feels unusual and unfair no matter what you think about what we have done. 

We have no legal argument whatsoever 

We broke the rules,got caught,admitted other cases and got punished.

[S-Clarke]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

sources felt the Spygate hearing should have taken place after the play-off final, rather than being expedited by the EFL. They thought there were too many rules that had no defined sanctions, which left too much open to interpretation, and if the rules had been clearer, the incident would have been resolved more speedily. They also pointed out that Southampton put in one of their worst performances in recent months against Middlesbrough in the first leg, which suggested that no sporting advantage had been gained. [via

@TheAthleticFC

]

This all feels like desperation tbh. We're trying to put our side out now via snippets to make us look better, then it'll be a woe be me for us later on in our statement.

[stknowle]

10 hours ago, Legoman said:

For days I’d hoped naively that the silence from the club was due to professionalism and we had an ace up our sleeve in comparison to the noise coming from Boro, instead the silence was incompetence 

If in doubt about anything regarding this Football Club, always go with the incompetence option.

[TwoPints]

Boro selling tickets for the final from 1pm today:

 

https://www.mfc.co.uk/news/2026/may/20/ticket-details-for-sky-bet-championship-play-off-final/

with no mention of the possibility of it not happening

Edited 1 hour ago by TwoPints

[Cabrone]

How about a 3 way tie where Hull play us at 12.30pm and then Hull play Boro at 4.30pm.

Hulls final score is the total no of goals scored against both of us.

The team that scores the most goes through.

Makes as much sense as anything else that is going on right now.